GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[Axl`s BFF]

I agree about the rings he needs to remember less is more

[Ratam]

59 minutes ago, Axl`s BFF said:

I agree about the rings he needs to remember less is more

I'm hate blings is gross

[killuridols]

Lol, yes, all tht jewelry sucks and I think it causes the opposite effect: your eyes try to look for the natural parts and that's how we end up focusing on the hair and belly, like @MillionsOfSpiderssaid 

He has too much going on... he's like a hoarder that hides under a pile of junk because he doesn't wanna face the world. All the layers he wears say a lot about him.

In his prime, sometimes he would be onstage only in his biker shorts, he felt comfortable in his skin.

From 1994 until 2002 he kinda desexualized himself and started wearing horrible baggy clothes.

[Tori72]

3 hours ago, killuridols said:

Lol, yes, all tht jewelry sucks and I think it causes the opposite effect: your eyes try to look for the natural parts and that's how we end up focusing on the hair and belly, like @MillionsOfSpiderssaid 

He has too much going on... he's like a hoarder that hides under a pile of junk because he doesn't wanna face the world. All the layers he wears say a lot about him.

In his prime, sometimes he would be onstage only in his biker shorts, he felt comfortable in his skin.

From 1994 until 2002 he kinda desexualized himself and started wearing horrible baggy clothes.

Totally so.

With all his layers, the bling and whatnot, he reminds me of a teenager being to unsure of himself and trying to follow any trend that comes up. It's a little sad.

When he was younger he had an - uhm - special style as well. People laughed about those assless pants, about the kilt, the shorts, the make-up, the jewlery. But to me (and his fans) he was always cool and just being himself, kind of punk, kind of authentic really.

All that, punk attitute, authenticity, rebel and so on, is totally lost. Which goes with age but only partly. Something happend that stole his overdimensional self-confidence. He still can walk self-confident on stage and dominate the crowd. But appearance and looks tell me he is not in real life anymore.

As you said, something also happend that affected his hair and skin.

It always seems to come down to 1993-1994, when his reclusiveness started and the depression and suicidal phase Beta talked about. 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Tori72

[tifalucis]

19 hours ago, killuridols said:

Ah, ok, hahaa... that haircut may look good on him but I'd have to see it again.... Too bad that's the only pic we have of him with that hair. There has to be more!!

Yeah, not tidy, but with a shape, a little bangs to cover the balding space and please dude, COMB IT!!

Lol, no Steven's hair is terrible!! and so is Joe Perry's

But their terrible hair are on purpose which make it look sorta funky cool smh 

[killuridols]

2 hours ago, Tori72 said:

When he was younger he had an - uhm - special style as well. People laughed about those assless pants, about the kilt, the shorts, the make-up, the jewlery. But to me (and his fans) he was always cool and just being himself, kind of punk, kind of authentic, really.

All that, punk attitute, authenticity, rebel and so on, is totally lost. Which goes with age but only partly. Something happend that stole his overdimensional self-confidence. He still can walk self-confident on stage and  dominate the crowd. But appearance and looks say he is not in real life anymore.

Yup. All of that is what most people perceive from him now. He's like in pilot mode. He does what's in contract and nothing else.

Regarding clothes and style, like I always say and I will stand by it forever when you are young you can pull almost anything.... bad hair, ugly clothes, putrid teeth, assless pants, pink or blue hair, tattoos all over your body, etc.... only gross things may not be tolerated that much but the rest is like.... youth gives you that power.... that's why our western society gives so much value to youth and when you lose it, you are discarded, made fun of and ignored.

It sucks but thats how we roll, unfortunately.

What's the solution? Try to find new ways to be cool without trying to appear something you are not, because lack of authenticity it is also condemned.

Axl seems defeated now. Bored onstage. Doesn't try anything new. He's become everything he didn't want to be.

Tough luck for the fans

Here are some pics from 1994, when his facial hair and head hair had started to change for the bad.....

[Frey]

2 hours ago, Tori72 said:

Totally so.

With all his layers, the bling and whatnot, he reminds me of a teenager beeing to unsure of himself and trying to follow any trend that comes up. It's a little sad.

When he was younger he had an - uhm - special style as well. People laughed about those assless pants, about the kilt, the shorts, the make-up, the jewlery. But to me (and his fans) he was always cool and just being himself, kind of punk, kind of authentic, really.

All that, punk attitute, authenticity, rebel and so on, is totally lost. Which goes with age but only partly. Something happend that stole his overdimensional self-confidence. He still can walk self-confident on stage and  dominate the crowd. But appearance and looks say he is not in real life anymore.

As you said, something also happend that affected his hair and skin.

It always seems to come down to 1993-1994, when his reclusiveness started and the depression and suicidal phase Beta talked about. 

 

"Now that you've been broken down, get your head out of the clouds, back down on the ground, and you don't talk so loud, and you don't walk so proud, anymore..."

Honestly, everything that happened with Erin and Steph, Slash leaving, everyone else leaving, lots of his friends and family members dying, mental health issues, possible other health issues (as has often been speculated), the pressure to prove to the world that he can do it on his own, CD not being as well received as he might have hoped, Slash meanwhile becoming very popular and everyone's darling / VR,... That shit will wear a guy down. His looks fading/getting older might have been hard for him to deal with as well, since it was such a huge part of his identity and he was pretty vain.

I mean, if Doug Goldstein and so on are to be believed, Axl frequently spent his time in the mid 90s curled up in bed, crying and with a gun in his mouth. If you're in that bad of a place mentally, it will usually show on your body as well.  In 2002 he was still in such a bad place he supposedly considered admitting himself into psychiatric care and travelled with a psychiatrist to all shows. In 2006 he still had weird episodes and temper tantrums (like the Stockholm incident) and also had Sebastian Bach seriously worried he was going to jump out off a flying helicopter. So 2002-2006 was a bad time as well and his strange looks during that time probably reflect that.

And to be honest, things didn't really appear to become better after 2006 either. He put on a lot of weight, grew a weird moustache and started dressing in new and awful ways yet again. Also looked seriously dead-eyed, lifeless or over-medicated in most pictures and videos from that time.

Sometimes I get the impression the guy didn't just have a couple of shitty months or years, but more like a couple of really shitty decades

And if you listen to young Axl talk about the future and what he wanted/imagined his life to be like... well, what he got is very different from what he probably expected. Life not turning out as you'd hoped for is something many people struggle with. And his turned out especially shitty imo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Frey

[Tori72]

3 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Yup. All of that is what most people perceive from him now. He's like in pilot mode. He does what's in contract and nothing else.

Regarding clothes and style, like I always say and I will stand by it forever when you are young you can pull almost anything.... bad hair, ugly clothes, putrid teeth, assless pants, pink or blue hair, tattoos all over your body, etc.... only gross things may not be tolerated that much but the rest is like.... youth gives you that power.... that's why our western society gives so much value to youth and when you lose it, you are discarded, made fun of and ignored.

It sucks but thats how we roll, unfortunately.

What's the solution? Try to find new ways to be cool without trying to appear something you are not, because lack of authenticity it is also condemned.

Axl seems defeated now. Bored onstage. Doesn't try anything new. He's become everything he didn't want to be.

Tough luck for the fans

Here are some pics from 1994, when his facial hair and head hair had started to change for the bad.....

There his skin looks to me like someone with an alcohl problem. Red, bloated... 

[Tori72]

You are very like very right, there, @Frey. So fucking sad. I so wished there would have only been someone to help him. He probably should have gone to a psychiatrist institution / care. It seems to me he had only / or to many fakes like Suzy London and Yoda and the like.

[killuridols]

5 minutes ago, Frey said:

"Now that you've been broken down, get your head out of the clouds, and you don't talk so loud, and you don't walk so proud, anymore..."

Honestly, everything that happened with Erin and Steph, Slash leaving, everyone else leaving, lots of his friends and family members dying, mental health issues, possible other health issues (as has often been speculated), the pressure to prove to the world that he can do it on his own, CD not being as well received as he might have hoped, Slash meanwhile becoming very popular and everyone's darling / VR,... That shit will wear a guy down. His looks fading/getting older might have been hard for him to deal with as well, since it was such a huge part of his identity and he was pretty vain.

I mean, if Doug Goldstein and so on are to be believed, Axl frequently spent his time in the mid 90s curled up in bed, crying and with a gun in his mouth. If you're in that bad of a place mentally, it will usually show on your body as well.  In 2002 he was still in such a bad place he supposedly considered admitting himself into psychiatric care and travelled with a psychiatrist to all shows. In 2006 he still had weird episodes and temper tantrums (like the Stockholm incident) and also had Sebastian Bach seriously worried he was going to jump out off a flying helicopter. So 2002-2006 was a bad time as well and his strange looks during that time probably reflect that.

And to be honest, things didn't really appear to become better after 2006 either. He put on a lot of weight, grew a weird moustache and started dressing in new and awful ways yet again. Also looked seriously dead-eyed, lifeless or over-medicated in most pictures and videos from that time.

Sometimes I get the impression the guy didn't just have a couple of shitty months or years, but more like a couple of really shitty decades

And if you listen to young Axl talk about the future and what he wanted/imagined his life to be like... well, what he got is very different from what he probably expected. Life not turning out as you'd hoped for is something many people struggle with. And his turned out especially shitty imo.

All of this is very hard to read

But I guess it's mostly true what you described of how things went down for him....

And there are people saying he always did what he wanted... lol.... no way, this man never wanted that whole 90's disastrous decade.....

I would also add the participation of the charlatans and Yoda in his life. Who knows what those wackos must have made him do, with promises of happiness and well-being.

 

[Alja]

2 hours ago, Tori72 said:

Totally so.

With all his layers, the bling and whatnot, he reminds me of a teenager beeing to unsure of himself and trying to follow any trend that comes up. It's a little sad.

When he was younger he had an - uhm - special style as well. People laughed about those assless pants, about the kilt, the shorts, the make-up, the jewlery. But to me (and his fans) he was always cool and just being himself, kind of punk, kind of authentic, really.

All that, punk attitute, authenticity, rebel and so on, is totally lost. Which goes with age but only partly. Something happend that stole his overdimensional self-confidence. He still can walk self-confident on stage and  dominate the crowd. But appearance and looks say he is not in real life anymore.

As you said, something also happend that affected his hair and skin.

It always seems to come down to 1993-1994, when his reclusiveness started and the depression and suicidal phase Beta talked about. 

In age about 30 many guys` hair goes really bad (I see many gingers/blondes with thin hair going downhill after 30), sometimes it`s even sooner or worse, this hay-like, dry, low quality hair in top of the head. Also these guys are better in recognizing hair products than me sometimes, even if hair does not look like that. Add Axl`s heavy smoking habit, that time already for years (speaking about 1992-4 or so), not good for overall body, well visible on skin and hair.

The other thing about image is that each one of us has inner picture of how one suppose to look to feel comfy in own skin. Does not necessarily match with best possible look. So what? 

I don`t think that inside he was so self-assured as he seemed on the stage and arranged photo sessions. Ever.

On the stage, if you get it, interaction, same vibe with rest of the band and audience, nothing else matters and it`s pure feeling and you get tons of energy from that. If someone in the band (for audience most prominently lead persona) does not come to this state, performance sucks.

Worries and doubts come later, with (almost) no eyes to see it. The moment before stepping on the stage (or make final mix for album or so) is always deep abyss of doubts to overcome, even the best ones do have it. Take in count that every perfectionist is most demanding on himself, far more than on anyone else. Being lead is the hardest, all eyes on you, you cannot hide behind an instrument (still easier to master even shattered) or hold not well recognized post (rhythm guitar, bass). Lead singer is no actor to become someone else if shattered, doubted, worried... He sells his own soul for the energy of performance with no warranty. Axl is not anymore stick thin, lithe outburst of energy. (Since I know, he started to perform so little dressed to prevent overheating on stadium-range stage) Nor he is performing with same mates with no major interruption like other well recognized frontmen to pass smoothly. The world changes and person changes and it`s not easy to find the right measure, if the world has its eyes pointed. I am not surprised that he use all that hideouts like hats, layers and jewellery (I just wonder how you can play an instrument with arms such heavy from all that spangle).

Maybe he just does not overcome his insecurities with that punk attitude, anger and outbursts anymore. Even on stage this is not anymore all permeating present feeling. It can be summoned by songs, but it`s a flashback.

Or, to sum it, Axl too is a human being (a whole package of human being in both good and bad, not just a stage persona or anyone`s fantasy) I have never met to tell details. People may have many layers and it`s foolish to judge the suprefcies, but the core is difficult to meet.

[Alja]

22 hours ago, killuridols said:

Ah, ok, hahaa... that haircut may look good on him but I'd have to see it again.... Too bad that's the only pic we have of him with that hair. There has to be more!!

Yeah, not tidy, but with a shape, a little bangs to cover the balding space and please dude, COMB IT!!

Lol, no Steven's hair is terrible!! and so is Joe Perry's

Steven`s nose is staring at me. 

[Frey]

21 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

You are very like very right, there, @Frey. So fucking sad. I so wished there would have only been someone to help him. He probably should have gone to a psychiatrist institution / care. It seems to me he had only / or to many fakes like Suzy London and Yoda and the like.

And that's the craziest and saddest thing about it, isn't it. So fucking rich and famous and yet not a single person around him who protected him from all the vultures.

If you compare that to Duff or Izzy for example, who always had family who had their back when things threatened to get out of hand... shows how fucked you are in this world I guess if you have no support from family or friends.

 

18 minutes ago, killuridols said:

All of this is very hard to read

But I guess it's mostly true what you described of how things went down for him....

And there are people saying he always did what he wanted... lol.... no way, this man never wanted that whole 90's disastrous decade.....

I would also add the participation of the charlatans and Yoda in his life. Who knows what those wackos must have made him do, with promises of happiness and well-being.

Yeah.

I don't even dare to think about it. The shit we know of already is so crazy and fucked up, who knows what went down behind closed doors that we've never even heard about. Add to that the thing @MillionsOfSpiders recently mentioned about him taking all kinds of drugs that were supposed to improve his health and looks... I mean who knows what the fuck he was really taking or what Yoda and co. made him take. Could have been pretty damaging, harmful stuff.

 

8 minutes ago, Alja said:

I don`t think that inside he was so self-assured as he seemed on the stage and arranged photo sessions. Ever.

This I agree with. Axl never struck me as very self-confident or comfortable in his skin, not even (or especially not?) when he was younger.

What he had back then was the cockiness and unapologetic attitude that comes with youth, and a giant anger issue. Which helped him deliver violent, electrifying performances and to project that "I don't give a fuck" attitude.

But underneath all that bravado, he always seemed like a really insecure and immature kid to me. And a very screwed up/traumatized one too.

 

 

 

 

[MillionsOfSpiders]

39 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

You are very like very right, there, @Frey. So fucking sad. I so wished there would have only been someone to help him. He probably should have gone to a psychiatrist institution / care. It seems to me he had only / or to many fakes like Suzy London and Yoda and the like.

I agree, he should've been taken into care even if he didn't want to go, he destroyed not only his own life but other people's so regardless of him being too frightened to go and his managers wanting him to tour and make money, the right thing to do would've been to section him. It's a shame it didn't happen and then he did things he can't undo and will carry around forever. 

[Alja]

23 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I agree, he should've been taken into care even if he didn't want to go, he destroyed not only his own life but other people's so regardless of him being too frightened to go and his managers wanting him to tour and make money, the right thing to do would've been to section him. It's a shame it didn't happen and then he did things he can't undo and will carry around forever. 

Maybe just taking out from that megacircus called band on a tour to safe, accepting shelter (how to create any?!). But for too many he was a precious cow to milk till it works or a ladder to heights with no further vision or intention to care about him as a human being who should have any future after the tour comes to its end. If he is naturally 100% honest and loyal as is often mentioned, he may have very poor smell for people with bad intentions.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Alja

[MillionsOfSpiders]

25 minutes ago, Frey said:

And that's the craziest and saddest thing about it, isn't it. So fucking rich and famous and yet not a single person around him who protected him from all the vultures.

If you compare that to Duff or Izzy for example, who always had family who had their back when things threatened to get out of hand... shows how fucked you are in this world I guess if you have no support from family or friends.

 

Yeah.

I don't even dare to think about it. The shit we know of already is so crazy and fucked up, who knows what went down behind closed doors that we've never even heard about. Add to that the thing @MillionsOfSpiders recently mentioned about him taking all kinds of drugs that were supposed to improve his health and looks... I mean who knows what the fuck he was really taking or what Yoda and co. made him take. Could have been pretty damaging, harmful stuff.

 

This I agree with. Axl never struck me as very self-confident or comfortable in his skin, not even (or especially not?) when he was younger.

What he had back then was the cockiness and unapologetic attitude that comes with youth, and a giant anger issue. Which helped him deliver violent, electrifying performances and to project that "I don't give a fuck" attitude.

But underneath all that bravado, he always seemed like a really insecure and immature kid to me. And a very screwed up/traumatized one too.

 

 

 

 

Axl's been a victim of the charlatans all his life, right from the beginning when he went to the fucked up "church" he was brought up in as a baby/child/teen. No wonder he falls prey to this kind of stuff, he wouldn't have the bullshit radar like any of us have and he probably still hasn't. 

Prescription drugs for his hair and skin, wtf kind of doctors does he have too? In light of the Michael Jackson and Prince deaths, you have to wonder about that too 

[killuridols]

26 minutes ago, Frey said:

If you compare that to Duff or Izzy for example, who always had family who had their back when things threatened to get out of hand... shows how fucked you are in this world I guess if you have no support from family or friends.

That's why one has to get married and have children

Or have a partner for life

And have kids so they can take care of you when you're old

Hopefully robots will be able to do that when I'm old or I am lucky enough to go before shit hits the fan
(that's my dream, though)

25 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I agree, he should've been taken into care even if he didn't want to go, he destroyed not only his own life but other people's so regardless of him being too frightened to go and his managers wanting him to tour and make money, the right thing to do would've been to section him. It's a shame it didn't happen and then he did things he can't undo and will carry around forever. 

I always thought that was the right thing to do but people here got scandalized.... I guess they have no clue what that man was going through.
Unfortunately, this industry is very cruel and he was not allowed to get down off the horse while he was profitable.

[killuridols]

16 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Prescription drugs for his hair and skin, wtf kind of doctors does he have too? In light of the Michael Jackson and Prince deaths, you have to wonder about that too 

The worst is that I've heard Beta is (or was?) into that whole Yoda crap too so the only one he had around to help him is (was?) also prey of the charlatans.

I've always wondered why Beta's eldest son, Alex, is not part of TB (or is he). I mean, like we hardly ever hear of that son of hers and seems not to be involved in GN'R business.

[stella]

26 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I agree, he should've been taken into care even if he didn't want to go, he destroyed not only his own life but other people's so regardless of him being too frightened to go and his managers wanting him to tour and make money, the right thing to do would've been to section him. It's a shame it didn't happen and then he did things he can't undo and will carry around forever. 

In the States you usually can't involuntarily commit an adult to physical or mental healthcare settings unless someone has a conservatorship over them. One usually needs to go to court for that and prove the person isn't capable of making their own decisions at all - for instance, it happens a lot when someone has an elderly parent with advanced Alzheimers or dementia. And even then, there are cases where the conservator is legally able to make certain decisions, but not others. There are a few other exceptions, such as someone who is found guilty of a crime by reason of insanity (they go to a psych ward instead of jail), but it isn't usually done.

If someone's actively suicidal, ie, they are standing on a ledge or they walked into the ER saying they want to kill themselves, they are held, but even then it's often only for 72 hours. Keeping someone against their will for longer than that, for 14 or 30 days, usually requires a lot of legwork. It's the same reason you can't force someone to go to rehab even if they are a raging addict. Even in those interventions that are always staged on TV shows, the person has to agree to go for help.

I'd like to throw something else out there, which is that there have been long standing rumors that Axl had some physical medical issues during the 90s and 2000s. There are certainly a number of things that would support that hypothesis, such as the fact that he seemed to be really bloated sometimes and really gaunt in other photos, as well as the hair changes. In that interview with him at that basketball game in 2001-ish, he looks deadly pale. So whatever he was going through might be something we don't even realize.

As anyone who has been sick knows, medication and treatment can certainly zonk someone out, change their moods, affect skin and hair, and make them look blank and dead-eyed sometimes. So will medications used for some psych issues such as depression and anxiety, for what it's worth. Even when someone is under treatment, and the treatment is working, it doesn't mean that they will be well, or "normal."

Plus, the guy lost so much - so many friends, his band, his mom, etc. - and that would fuck with anyone's head. People go to grief counseling when they've lost one person who is close to them. When they lose...well, just about everyone..? Would any of us bounce back from that, or would we maybe take some time to get back on track?

As to the way he dresses, he seems to wear what he likes. It might not be what anyone else would wear, but if that is what makes him comfortable, why the hell not?

 

 

[Frey]

24 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Axl's been a victim of the charlatans all his life, right from the beginning when he went to the fucked up "church" he was brought up in as a baby/child/teen. No wonder he falls prey to this kind of stuff, he wouldn't have the bullshit radar like any of us have and he probably still hasn't. 

Prescription drugs for his hair and skin, wtf kind of doctors does he have too? In light of the Michael Jackson and Prince deaths, you have to wonder about that too 

I guess it's kind of like growing up in a cult. It screws with your perceptions of the world and these people tend to be really weird and naive as well, even after they've left the cult.

 

24 minutes ago, killuridols said:

That's why one has to get married and have children

Or have a partner for life

And have kids so they can take care of you when you're old

Hopefully robots will be able to do that when I'm old or I am lucky enough to go before shit hits the fan
(that's my dream, though)

I always thought that was the right thing to do but people here got scandalized.... I guess they have no clue what that man was going through.
Unfortunately, this industry is very cruel and he was not allowed to get down off the horse while he was profitable.

Well I'm still not in favor of forcibly institutionalizing anyone against their will (most of the time; there are situations which necessitate this kind of thing of course, but I'm not sure Axl qualifies). I think it might have been a good idea though if someone had talked to him about getting professional help and maybe convinced him to do it on his own.

 

3 minutes ago, killuridols said:

The worst is that I've heard Beta is (or was?) into that whole Yoda crap too so the only one he had around to help him is (was?) also prey of the charlatans.

I've always wondered why Beta's eldest son, Alex, is not part of TB (or is he). I mean, like we hardly ever hear of that son of hers and seems not to be involved in GN'R business.

She certainly is. She used to travel to Sedona with him all the time, believes in past lifes, etc.

I wonder about Alex too. But he's not completely out of the picture. Sasha seems to babysit Alex' kids all the damn time

(Maybe her cat-sitting job isn't really enough to qualify as a job even in Axl's mind, so she also gets to babysit various Lebeis kids lol.)

And iirc Alex's daughter is named after Axl too, just like Beta's other two granddaughters.

#WhyDoIKnowThisShit    #TimeToStopFollowingTBonInstagram

 

 

 

[stella]

Also, since Axl allegedly wanted to go to a hospital in 2002, there's some evidence that he didn't look to the alternative medicine bullshit it as his primary medical treatment all the time. With his foot issues back in the 90s and the more recent injury it's pretty clear he had legit medical care, for instance.

Edited April 11, 2017 by stella

[killuridols]

3 minutes ago, Frey said:

Well I'm still not in favor of forcibly institutionalizing anyone against their will (most of the time; there are situations which necessitate this kind of thing of course, but I'm not sure Axl qualifies). I think it might have been a good idea though if someone had talked to him about getting professional help and maybe convinced him to do it on his own.

Well, its not exactly "against their will", but tell me... what person with a mental disease or mental problems will tell you they need to be hospitalized?? Most of them deny they have a problem. It is usually family, the partner, relatives or friends who realize the person is not well... while the person themselves just think they can fix it by themselves or that it will go away....

Quote

There are also times when a person becomes so ill that they are at risk of hurting themselves or others and hospitalization becomes necessary even though the individual does not wish to enter a hospital. While seeking help voluntarily is always preferable, a family member may have to make the decision to hospitalize someone with a mental illness involuntarily. This act, while difficult, can be more caring than it seems if that is the only way to get someone the care they need, especially if there is a risk of suicide or harm to others.

http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/hospitalization

 

10 minutes ago, Frey said:

I wonder about Alex too. But he's not completely out of the picture. Sasha seems to babysit Alex' kids all the damn time

(Maybe her cat-sitting job isn't really enough to qualify as a job even in Axl's mind, so she also gets to babysit various Lebeis kids lol.)

loooooool

well, no kidding, she's indeed babysitting now!

Not a joke, there are several pics of her on her IG with different kids, not sure they are Alex' kids but they are someone's kids.

She still lives in London so that'd be a high paid babysitter to make her travel all the way but who knows

 

[Alja]

29 minutes ago, stella said:

In the States you usually can't involuntarily commit an adult to physical or mental healthcare settings unless someone has a conservatorship over them. One usually needs to go to court for that and prove the person isn't capable of making their own decisions at all - for instance, it happens a lot when someone has an elderly parent with advanced Alzheimers or dementia. And even then, there are cases where the conservator is legally able to make certain decisions, but not others. There are a few other exceptions, such as someone who is found guilty of a crime by reason of insanity (they go to a psych ward instead of jail), but it isn't usually done.

If someone's actively suicidal, ie, they are standing on a ledge or they walked into the ER saying they want to kill themselves, they are held, but even then it's often only for 72 hours. Keeping someone against their will for longer than that, for 14 or 30 days, usually requires a lot of legwork. It's the same reason you can't force someone to go to rehab even if they are a raging addict. Even in those interventions that are always staged on TV shows, the person has to agree to go for help.

I'd like to throw something else out there, which is that there have been long standing rumors that Axl had some physical medical issues during the 90s and 2000s. There are certainly a number of things that would support that hypothesis, such as the fact that he seemed to be really bloated sometimes and really gaunt in other photos, as well as the hair changes. In that interview with him at that basketball game in 2001-ish, he looks deadly pale. So whatever he was going through might be something we don't even realize.

As anyone who has been sick knows, medication and treatment can certainly zonk someone out, change their moods, affect skin and hair, and make them look blank and dead-eyed sometimes. So will medications used for some psych issues such as depression and anxiety, for what it's worth. Even when someone is under treatment, and the treatment is working, it doesn't mean that they will be well, or "normal."

Plus, the guy lost so much - so many friends, his band, his mom, etc. - and that would fuck with anyone's head. People go to grief counseling when they've lost one person who is close to them. When they lose...well, just about everyone..? Would any of us bounce back from that, or would we maybe take some time to get back on track?

As to the way he dresses, he seems to wear what he likes. It might not be what anyone else would wear, but if that is what makes him comfortable, why the hell not?

There was an old interview in early nineties or so, where he was talking about psychiatric treatment and how that did not work well for him (so drugs did not so he never became a junkie). Psych meds, especially the stronger types, and if we are talking about 90s, most modern types not that much interfering with...the way you live out or how to name it... were not available then: The way they make you blunt and functioning may be even terrifying and some people go off them because the way they change them as a person and (not to speak about somatic symptoms like stiff movements, weight gain, high cholesterol, loss of libido or so) and choose to rather be emotional mess than this. One must be really motivated to undergo this treatment which may last for long or rest of the life with all side effects. I can`t imagine what it does to someone with colorful inner world who basically lives and nurtures from emotions and their expression in art. People on these meds often look like washed out cloth, after some time runny, gut-type fat with no shine, tame shade of their previous self. It always hurts me to see this. They don`t experience nor bad nor good emotions or experience them less intense. 

Current treatment can be set up much more gentle and the range of possible meds and treatment traits is larger. Still you can loose some precious abilities with it.

Forced treatment takes place if someone is danger to surrounding or cannot judge the situation, but after acute treatment you cannot hold even suicidal patient. Forced anything usually does not wok well anyway. 

Kids need some more quality science and logic classes to built up resistant bullshit detector. 

8 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Well, its not exactly "against their will", but tell me... what person with a mental disease or mental problems will tell you they need to be hospitalized?? Most of them deny they have a problem. It is usually family, the partner, relatives or friends who realize the person is not well... while the person themselves just think they can fix it by themselves or that it will go away....

If you have loyal and caring near ones, you won. Surprisingly it`s not rare to ask for help, they ask usually if they are really exhausted and see no way out; Worse is if people with mental problems are discouraged by near ones or their near ones are in huge part the root of their problems. Or their delusions are taken as some kind of enlightenment or purgatory/punishment or whatever. Sometimes all one needs is to be taken out from toxic environment rather than be blunt by meds and thrown back. Individual. 

[Frey]

33 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Well, its not exactly "against their will", but tell me... what person with a mental disease or mental problems will tell you they need to be hospitalized?? Most of them deny they have a problem. It is usually family, the partner, relatives or friends who realize the person is not well... while the person themselves just think they can fix it by themselves or that it will go away....

http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/hospitalization

 

I know what you mean, but like I said, I'm not really sure Axl qualifies. I don't quite know enough about him to judge that. And as @stella said, it's not really that simple in reality.

 

33 minutes ago, killuridols said:

loooooool

well, no kidding, she's indeed babysitting now!

Not a joke, there are several pics of her on her IG with different kids, not sure they are Alex' kids but they are someone's kids.

She still lives in London so that'd be a high paid babysitter to make her travel all the way but who knows

 

Scrolling through her Insta, I get the impression her current job is to babysit for some really posh Londoners' daughters. Maybe she's even their full-time nanny. Though I wonder what kind of rich London snob would hire an escort/party girl to take care of their children. Seems strange.

There are definitely a couple of pictures of her with Alex' children though, so I think she at least used to babysit for them in the past sometimes.

 

38 minutes ago, stella said:

Also, since Axl allegedly wanted to go to a hospital in 2002, there's some evidence that he didn't look to the alternative medicine bullshit it as his primary medical treatment all the time. With his foot issues back in the 90s and the more recent injury it's pretty clear he had legit medical care, for instance.

Yeah, he's never really disregarded conventional medicine when it comes to actual physical health issues. Fortunately. And yep, he either came to his senses a bit or was really, really desperate by 2002. But then again who knows if that story is even true. Same with Axl travelling with a psychiatrist back then. That one is true, but who knows if it was even an actual psychiatrist or just a Suzy London type charlatan.

Also, Doug Goldstein has said Axl would still be into the Yoda shit if she hadn't died. And Axl had some kind of "In loving memory of Sharon Maynard" type thing in the liner notes of CD, so by 2008 it seems he hadn't really changed his mind about any of that stuff yet.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Frey

[MillionsOfSpiders]

31 minutes ago, stella said:

In the States you usually can't involuntarily commit an adult to physical or mental healthcare settings unless someone has a conservatorship over them. One usually needs to go to court for that and prove the person isn't capable of making their own decisions at all - for instance, it happens a lot when someone has an elderly parent with advanced Alzheimers or dementia. And even then, there are cases where the conservator is legally able to make certain decisions, but not others. There are a few other exceptions, such as someone who is found guilty of a crime by reason of insanity (they go to a psych ward instead of jail), but it isn't usually done.

If someone's actively suicidal, ie, they are standing on a ledge or they walked into the ER saying they want to kill themselves, they are held, but even then it's often only for 72 hours. Keeping someone against their will for longer than that, for 14 or 30 days, usually requires a lot of legwork. It's the same reason you can't force someone to go to rehab even if they are a raging addict. Even in those interventions that are always staged on TV shows, the person has to agree to go for help.

I'd like to throw something else out there, which is that there have been long standing rumors that Axl had some physical medical issues during the 90s and 2000s. There are certainly a number of things that would support that hypothesis, such as the fact that he seemed to be really bloated sometimes and really gaunt in other photos, as well as the hair changes. In that interview with him at that basketball game in 2001-ish, he looks deadly pale. So whatever he was going through might be something we don't even realize.

As anyone who has been sick knows, medication and treatment can certainly zonk someone out, change their moods, affect skin and hair, and make them look blank and dead-eyed sometimes. So will medications used for some psych issues such as depression and anxiety, for what it's worth. Even when someone is under treatment, and the treatment is working, it doesn't mean that they will be well, or "normal."

Plus, the guy lost so much - so many friends, his band, his mom, etc. - and that would fuck with anyone's head. People go to grief counseling when they've lost one person who is close to them. When they lose...well, just about everyone..? Would any of us bounce back from that, or would we maybe take some time to get back on track?

As to the way he dresses, he seems to wear what he likes. It might not be what anyone else would wear, but if that is what makes him comfortable, why the hell not?

 

 

Im glad to be in the UK then  

We have the deprivation of liberty here for people with Alzheimer's and other types of Dementia, its really just used as a safeguarding measure to ensure there are trusted people who can make the right decisions for the poor soul who is suffering. 

Here, if a person is suicidal or presenting a danger to other people around them then they can just section you and they will take the person to hospital and then assess their needs. So I suppose I am looking at it from the point of view as to what is usual here 

I just think if he had episodes of being suicidal and being violent and hurting other people, then it would be the best thing.