GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

Rocketqueen76 · April 14, 2017

51 minutes ago, Fansince88 said:

You've dedicated your life to protecting the lives of your country, so this kind of sentiment would never be in your heart.

Keeping in mind the discussion a few weeks ago about some problems in this thread, perhaps it's time to give this topic a rest for a few days?

Exactly!

killuridols · April 14, 2017

5 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Oh yeah, I have. I'm actually pretty surprised that Izzy and Steven are still alive after all the buses they've been thrown under lately

I don't think the forum is THAT hostile, though (except for some people like that guy who got suspended a few days ago) but maybe people is tougher with you because you're grumpy

Shhh... hide the Izzy and the Steven... you know brain damage and unreliable much

I do think things are tough, especially in the D&N section... I'm not grumpy, I'm pretty straight forward and some people can't deal with it or are not used to receiving messages that are not sugar-coated, like you say before.

I perceive a lot of hypocrisy disguised under nice forms and nice words but I don't buy it and I admit I have the bad habit of lifting the masks people wear :lol:

In spite of that, even the ones who pretend to ignore me have to butt into the conversations I'm having with other forum users so they can send me their "mesagge" :lol: and many of the new people coming to the thread inaugurate their postings by directly addressing me. This is how I get to keep these boring topics alive to death :rofl-lol: (pun intended). So I must not be so grumpy after all :devilshades: ....

Frey · April 14, 2017

8 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Also, I might be completely wrong but my impression is that most of the people who post on this thread are either bigger fans of Axl than of the other members or at least find him more interesting or something like that. That's why 98% of the time the discussions revolve around him, not to protect Slash. Actually, I think @killuridols yesterday posted that she couldn't care less about new SMKC music (which is fn' blasphemy if you ask me ) and even used the vomit emoticon when talking about Myles. She's clearly more interested in hearing new music from Axl than from Slash but that doesn't mean she can change the fact that Slash has been very productive and has had a great career after leaving GNR (at least since VR) while Axl only managed to release one album and his career has gone downhill until the reunion. Again, I believe this is the case with most people in this thread, they're coming from the same place regardless of having different opinions and different ways of expressing them.

WHAT?! Why would you say something like that?

Nah, I don't think so. This has come up before and a lot of people here are actually huge fans of Slash, Duff, Izzy,... But you know, what is there to really say about Duff for example? He's doing well, he's a good guy, never really done anything controversial or awful, things are going smoothly for him. Not that much to dissect and analyze there.

On the occasions Duff or one of the other guys does something questionable, it gets talked about plenty and it does get criticized. Duff and Slash supposedly being a driving force for Izzy and Steven not being involved or at least not sticking up for them has been criticized and whined about across the entire board. Or as a more WT specific example, Duff (and his wife) have been criticized for pushing their daughters as the next "It Girls" or whatever. Slash has been dragged for various things as well throughout the history of the thread.

1 hour ago, stella said:

It does amaze me that Axl's judged and slammed for every single aspect of his life, but the same doesn't hold true for the others. Izzy's spent most of the past 20 years out of the spotlight but he's never excoriated for staying out of the spotlight or not performing a lot. Steven's been to jail for beating up women, was high on national TV, whines in the press like a four year old, and left his entire band in Europe without a way to get home, but he's a saint. Duff and Slash have had such issues with substance abuse that they've permanently damaged various organs of their bodies. Slash has also had a little DV stuff IIRC. Every single one of them has had music projects that were not as successful - and Velvet Revolver apparently was a dramafest with the lead singer. Every single one of them has had relationship issues of one stripe or another, divorces, remarriages, whatever. And yet, they all walk on water, apparently, and every thing they have done in the last 20 years is considered awesome.

And meanwhile Axl's some sort of super villain who is responsible for everything that's ever gone wrong, ever. He's supposed to have lived his life the way everyone else in the damn world wants him to, made the amount of music everyone else wants, run his band, his management and his personal life the way everyone else thinks he should, and every misstep the guy's ever made is under a microscope. God forbid he's just as human as the rest of them and lives his life the way HE sees fit.

I don't think people have some vendetta against Axl, I think Axl just gets talked about a lot for the reasons I mentioned above in my reply to @BorderlineCrazy.

Additionally

1) He's also the lead singer. They always get more attention than the rest of the band and most of the focus is on them. That's the way it is with most bands.

2) He's provided a lot of material over the years to talk about, especially compared to a guy like Izzy. Who's been a mystery for decades and even back in the day he didn't talk much. It's hard to even speculate or make assumptions with a guy like Izzy.

3) Good or bad, Axl just brings out a lot of emotions in people. I think most people are just worried about him because they perceive him as being in a worse place in life than Duff or Slash for example.

I agree about your comment regarding Steven. 75% of the forum treats him as if he's some adorable retarded puppy that can do no wrong or downright talks about him as if he were a saint, like you said, and I find it pretty baffling and :facepalm:

Edited April 14, 2017 by Frey

Whiskey Rose · April 14, 2017

On ‎2017‎-‎04‎-‎10 at 10:58 PM, BorderlineCrazy said:

Don't talk about McDreamy, it's so sad that he died

I swear I am permanently dehydrated from all the tears that show has wrenched out of me over the years! :lol:

Speaking of actors, I wonder if Axl woud be any good at this? He has a deep emotional well to dig from, I think he would be great at it!

stella · April 14, 2017

35 minutes ago, Frey said:

I don't think people have some vendetta against Axl, I think Axl just gets talked about a lot for the reasons I mentioned above in my reply to @BorderlineCrazy.

Additionally

1) He's also the lead singer. They always get more attention than the rest of the band and most of the focus is on them. That's the way it is with most bands.

2) He's provided a lot of material over the years to talk about, especially compared to a guy like Izzy. Who's been a mystery for decades and even back in the day he didn't talk much. It's hard to even speculate or make assumptions with a guy like Izzy.

3) Good or bad, Axl just brings out a lot of emotions in people. I think most people are just worried about him because they perceive him as being in a worse place in life than Duff or Slash for example.

I agree about your comment regarding Steven. 75% of the forum treats him as if he's some adorable retarded puppy that can do no wrong or downright talks about him as if he were a saint, like you said, and I find it pretty baffling and

I don't think the issue is so much that Axl gets more attention; it's that he is judged more harshly for things outside the realm of music than any other member of the band. I've never once read a post about any other band member where people openly say how everything they're doing with their personal lives/friends/etc. is wrong, and yet, people feel free to do that to Axl. Why does anyone feel he's in a "worse" place than Duff or Slash? Because he hasn't had a marriage and kids the way some people seem to expect him to? Because he may or may not have some emotional, mental or physical issues? Because of the people he has chosen as his family, who seem to make him feel safe and comfortable? How he dresses? All of that is judgment based on what people think he *should* do or be like. He's not hurting anyone. We don't know if he's happy or not, and we don't know what he needs to be happy. I feel like people should let the guy be, the same way they let the other band members live their lives as they wish.

The way Steven's worshipped here really does confuse me, yeah.

Edited April 14, 2017 by stella

killuridols · April 14, 2017

@Frey I agree with most of what you said in your last comment, except for this:

2 hours ago, Frey said:

75% of the forum treats him as if he's some adorable retarded puppy that can do no wrong or downright talks about him as if he were a saint, like you said, and I find it pretty baffling and

It is not true that Steven is adored an treated like a saint here. I've read pretty harsh comments made about him, his life and his mother. In this very same thread people have called him brain damaged and other things. Not to mention that the sexual abuse he's said he suffered it is not approached with the same concern other people feel about Axl's alleged abuse. When talking about Steven he's always addressed as a hopeless drugaddict who can't move on in life and all the bad things he is, he has brought them on himself for getting involved with drugs.

The armchair doctors we have in the forum and within this thread will talk lengths about Axl's alleged mental diseases but at the same time talk very harshly about other band members drug and alcohol problems, as if they were not diseases as well.

I still stand by the opinion that Axl is more talked because the subject simply comes up more often. I also agree with @BorderlineCrazy that Axl is probably more interesting to some fans than the rest of the guys. Personally, I have no problem discussing the private matters of Slash, Duff or whoever, but they are not brought up that often. When they have, I have joined those discussions too.

----

Either way, I think that throwing the AFD4 under a bus in a silly attempt to balance things for Axl, it is rather pathetic to me. No matter what the other guys have done or not done with their lives/careers, it doesn't modify one single thread of what Axl has done with his own life and career.

Slash' marriages/divorces or Duff's exploding pancreas did not affect their professional lives significantly or prevented them from keep working as musicians. And honestly, there is not much to be said about those things since getting divorced and re-marrying has become the norm for a large portion of the western population. We are not living in 1930 anymore.

Ultimately, Axl is the one who kept the brand Guns N' Roses to use in his benefit and he had it all to make it successful again, unlike Slash and Duff who had to build a name of themselves after they left.

Velvet Revolver was a really good musical project and in a relatively short period of time, it achieved a lot more success than Axl's NuGN'R and his "Chinese Democracy" album.

Edited to add: IMO, the discussion of Axl's life as an individual also takes place because, it seems apparent to some fans that some of his personal choices have had a big impact in his career, therefore, it becomes difficult to disassociate both aspects.

Edited April 14, 2017 by killuridols

Andy14 · April 14, 2017

Alright, since I was dragged back into this thread :max: , let me react to the last couple of pages.

I personally don't like bringing up all the bad things gnr members have done in the past 30 years and comparing whose dick is bigger (or in this case smaller), it's not a competition, bringing down one member won't make the others look better. They all have done things nobody would be proud of and at the end of the day, nobody cares if it was caused by their state of mind, by drugs or by the fact that they are just idiots. It's pretty clear that we ALL care about them, which leads to overreacting or discussing it over and over again. And, let's be honest. Those guys bring chaos and dysfunction wherever they step, so that's all we're gonna get. :rofl-lol:

And the fact that Axl is judged more that the other four guys all together doesn't have to mean he's leading worse life or people here hate him more. It may simply mean that people care about him MORE and want him to be happy (and of course we all have different opinions on what's good and bad and that's where all the disagreement comes from). :bitchfight:

Alright, now let me go back into seclusion

P.S. HAPPY FUCKING EASTER (Axl/@killuridols edition)

killuridols · April 14, 2017

Lol @Andy14 :lol: that bunny needs a bandana and frizzy hair to look more like Axl!

But I understand you were in a hurry to go celebrate your pagan rituals of tonight :rofl-lol:

Alja · April 14, 2017

2 hours ago, Andy14 said:

I have some doubts if it does even feel its ass

Frey · April 14, 2017

19 hours ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

Contrary to popular relief, the things you speak of are due to his maturing. He is not the same 24-29 year old kid full of anger and bitterness at the world. I highly doubt that those contingencies are in place because everyone is sober and lucid enough to treat each other like adults. I'm sure that Axl didn't put a "no dancing with Mr. Brownstone" clause in the contracts.

But what I find really funny, is that no one is putting this kind of stigma on Slash and Duff. And we all know that Slash is/was in the middle of a nasty divorce. However, no one thinks He's doing it for money and not love of art. Not trying to say that Axl can do no wrong, but let's be real and call a spade a spade.

I don't really think it's a matter of maturity. I mean to a certain extent it probably plays into Axl's improved behavior as well, but Axl wasn't just acting immature when he was a kid (I'll go along with your definition of kid, because Axl was really messed up and immature when he was young for reasons beyond his control, so I tend to cut him some slack and allow a little more time for maturing and "growing up" than I would for the average person). He was still acting that way in 2002, 2006, 2012 and so on.

At those points he was a grown man in his 30s, 40s and 50s. Not really an issue of immaturity at this point, because fucked up childhood or not, sooner or later everyone should sort themselves out and the "immature kid" kid excuse starts wearing thin when you hit your thirties, not to mention in your 40s and 50s. Since Axl until very recently hasn't really been able to do that, I tend to think he struggles with additional problems that affect the way he acts, such as mental health issues.

As for why he's been better recently.... Well, I think the three most likely explanations are a) Slash and Duff have him by the balls, legally speaking b) He's taking meds or is on different meds than he used to be (he certainly seemed medicated during the Brazilian interview with Duff and at some other points) c) old friends like Slash and Duff returning, the respect and recognition he received for pulling the AC/DC thing off so well and all the other great stuff that recently happened probably effects his mental and emotional state in a positive way as well. Maybe all of the above to some extent.

I disagree about there not being any stigma on Slash and Duff. We had an entire thread full of people making nasty remarks about Slash's divorce. And Slash gets called greedy on a daily basis on this board. As well as a sell-out for the whole Izzy and Steven thing, a liar (for various reasons),...

6 hours ago, stella said:

I don't think the issue is so much that Axl gets more attention; it's that he is judged more harshly for things outside the realm of music than any other member of the band. I've never once read a post about any other band member where people openly say how everything they're doing with their personal lives/friends/etc. is wrong, and yet, people feel free to do that to Axl. Why does anyone feel he's in a "worse" place than Duff or Slash? Because he hasn't had a marriage and kids the way some people seem to expect him to? Because he may or may not have some emotional, mental or physical issues? Because of the people he has chosen as his family, who seem to make him feel safe and comfortable? How he dresses? All of that is judgment based on what people think he *should* do or be like. He's not hurting anyone. We don't know if he's happy or not, and we don't know what he needs to be happy. I feel like people should let the guy be, the same way they let the other band members live their lives as they wish.

The way Steven's worshipped here really does confuse me, yeah.

But him getting criticized more is a direct result of him getting more attention and being more in the public focus than the rest of them. I feel like 95% (or more) of people on this board have no idea about any of the shit Steven has done, but everyone knows about Axl's history of DV, starting riots, being late, etc. People are not going to talk and discuss about shit they don't even know about, so Steven gets off easy, while Axl is a comparatively convenient victim for everyone and their grandmother to comment on.

Also, regarding Slash specifically, there used to be plenty of posts making fun of him or criticizing him for marrying Perla (now that he has Meegan, this kind of thing has gone down because people seem to find her less offensive and more likable than Perla). He gets called out on his cheating a lot, as well as for being a liar and a greedy bastard who's all about the money. Also his whole "no homo" thing/latent homophobia has been commented on multiple times. Or the (seemingly small) amount of time he seems to spend with his children. If there's anything to point fingers at and it's well-known enough, there will be people who do so, whether the person in question is Axl, Slash or anyone else.

I agree with you that people should let Axl be (especially these days there's not much to criticize him for on the whole), but again, I don't think people are criticizing the things you mention just to be nasty, but because they are genuinely concerned. TB and the rest of the entourage for example rub a lot of people the wrong way (for various and justified reasons imo), and that's why there is so much negativity surrounding them. I'm willing to bet that if Axl was surrounded by less questionable/shady people than TB, there wouldn't be nearly as much negativity (or hardly any even).

Imagine if Axl's chosen family consisted of people who don't work for him, people not on his payroll in any way, people who don't emotionally manipulate him and try to control what he gets to see and doesn't see, people who don't encourage his delusions and negative emotions towards his former friends, etc. Just some random people who stay in the background and just love him for who he is, no other motives. If that were the case, hardly anone would object to Axl having an unusual family set up most likely.

Or for a more WT- like example, imagine if Axl was married to Izzy (or even the Swedish soccer guy he was rumored to have an affair with or whoever) and they lived happily up there on his hill, with a bunch of dogs and motor bikes and whatever else made them happy. Again, I don't think anyone would object (except for a couple of homophobes, but those don't matter).

20 hours ago, killuridols said:

He took 13 years to make an album and it's been 9 years since that. People who see progress there are either very generous or have very low standards for the concept of progress.

Yes, he's not so late to his shows anymore and so far he has not walked off stage or punched someone in the face, but this could be attributed to a highly strict contract or contracts that could leave him bankrupt and damage the little career that is left for him if he doesn't fully compromise. At 55 years old, he cannot afford to ruin his life since he's not in his prime anymore. Also, Slash and Duff may have added their own conditions to join this tour and the consequences to face if they are not met.

Regarding TB and the large entourage, what you say about it makes a lot of sense and it could be very well the case, but there are other possibilities too: perhaps Axl is not doing so well as some people think and he can't really do business on his own or move around on his own, for whatever reasons unknown to us. One could say (and you say it) that even in that case, one assistant would be enough to supply his needs, and here is where, I think, Axl's own desires intervene and that is that he needs to have a large entourage because that's the way he's always been since the early 90's, at least.

I wouldn't be so sure he's unaware of being taken advantage of. Maybe deep inside he knows that in order to keep people around him he has to pay them. I think he knows he is a "pain in the ass", as he's described himself once, and because of that, the only way for him to have a social circle and a "family" will be this way. He seems unable to form and keep a normal relationship with a woman, so he might have given up on that for good.

I agree with you about what you say of Beta abusing her role and playing dangerously with the title of "mother". In my opinion, this is a very sick development and is one more sign to point this man is not well.

He's probably right when he says he's a survivor. Nowadays he's just surviving.

I tend to agree with most of this, especially the bolded. At least on days when I'm feeling particularly pessimistic lol.

I don't think Axl necessarily is unable to maintain normal, healthy relationships though. He likely could, but probably doesn't trust himself enough or doesn't really know how to go about it/is afraid of trying. I think deep inside, Axl is really insecure and also very afraid of being alone, so he'll do anything to have people around him and act as his family, even if it means he has to pay them.

15 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

I don't think I'm getting what you're saying. When were Slash and Duff BARELY KEEPING THEMSELVES ALIVE? For the last 20 years, Duff McKagan has been one of the healthiest persons in the whole world. It might have taken longer for Slash to clean himself up but he did many years ago and he hasn't been close to dying at all in the last 15 years or so (which is incredible considering how close he was a couple of times before).

I don't believe anyone here would approve or endorse their stupid and reckless substance abuse but that's something very old and that has changed (apparently for good). From what I see, some people is criticizing Axl not for what he did when he was young but for not evolving (I'm not assuring he hasn't, that's what's being said) or not turning his life around like the others did.

15 hours ago, killuridols said:

Regarding fandom and Axl, I agree with you and that is my perception as well. In my case, I like Axl and Guns N' Roses much more than the side/solo projects of the other original members (except for Izzy maybe, I like his stuff) and I don't like SMKC because I don't like Myles Kennedy voice and I fail to see how that's a blasphemy but I did like Velvet Revolver and some other Slash collaborations.

However, me being more of a GN'R fan has not prevented me from being informed about the work of Slash, Duff and Izzy (not so much Adler) and follow their solo careers from a side of the road. I am not ignorant of what they were doing until the "reunion", the same way I did not quit GN'R when Slash and Duff left.

I like all of the original members and I will always be a Guns N' Roses fan. They are my primary band of choice, over solo projects, but I don't have my head in my ass believing Axl is perfect and the others are irrelevant musicians without a trajectory.

I agree with both of these posts.

In my opinion it can't really be denied that Slash (to some extent) and especially Duff have turned their lifes around in amazing ways and have worked hard for years to stay relevant, despite being at a disadvantage in doing so compared to Axl. Nevertheless they have managed to do very well for themselves and have even surpassed Axl in various ways (Slash is arguably more well-known and musically relevant than Axl these days, Duff is all educated and sophisticated (well for a rock star lol) and a very level-headed, likable guy, despite also struggling with mental health issues himself).

Now I don't really blame Axl for not having been able to do what Slash and Duff did, because who knows what he was struggling and dealing with. From the bits and pieces we do know, it certainly wasn't anything good. But it does make me sad for him and I wish he could have done what they did.

5 hours ago, killuridols said:

@Frey I agree with most of what you said in your last comment, except for this:

It is not true that Steven is adored an treated like a saint here. I've read pretty harsh comments made about him, his life and his mother. In this very same thread people have called him brain damaged and other things. Not to mention that the sexual abuse he's said he suffered it is not approached with the same concern other people feel about Axl's alleged abuse. When talking about Steven he's always addressed as a hopeless drugaddict who can't move on in life and all the bad things he is, he has brought them on himself for getting involved with drugs.

The armchair doctors we have in the forum and within this thread will talk lengths about Axl's alleged mental diseases but at the same time talk very harshly about other band members drug and alcohol problems, as if they were not diseases as well.

I still stand by the opinion that Axl is more talked because the subject simply comes up more often. I also agree with @BorderlineCrazy that Axl is probably more interesting to some fans than the rest of the guys. Personally, I have no problem discussing the private matters of Slash, Duff or whoever, but they are not brought up that often. When they have, I have joined those discussions too.

There are only a handful of people who regularly talk shit about Steven and some of the comments are justified. But the vast majority of the people on this board give the guy way more credit than he deserves imo and act like he's the best thing since sliced bread. As for the brain damage discussion, I don't really care for it. I think it's a valid discussion topic, but personally I don't think he suffers from brain damage. With the exception of his speech impediment, the Steven of today is not very different from the Steven of the 80s as far as I can tell. He's always been rather dumb, happy-go-lucky and annoying, as well as messed up in similar ways to Axl and for similar reasons, no need to blame it on brain damage.

7 hours ago, Whiskey Rose said:

Speaking of actors, I wonder if Axl woud be any good at this? He has a deep emotional well to dig from, I think he would be great at it!

I remember Axl saying he's always had a lot of respect and admiration for actors.

Not really sure he would be a good one though

Edited April 14, 2017 by Frey

BorderlineCrazy · April 14, 2017

7 hours ago, stella said:

It does amaze me that Axl's judged and slammed for every single aspect of his life, but the same doesn't hold true for the others. Izzy's spent most of the past 20 years out of the spotlight but he's never excoriated for staying out of the spotlight or not performing a lot. Steven's been to jail for beating up women, was high on national TV, whines in the press like a four year old, and left his entire band in Europe without a way to get home, but he's a saint. Duff and Slash have had such issues with substance abuse that they've permanently damaged various organs of their bodies. Slash has also had a little DV stuff IIRC. Every single one of them has had music projects that were not as successful - and Velvet Revolver apparently was a dramafest with the lead singer. Every single one of them has had relationship issues of one stripe or another, divorces, remarriages, whatever. And yet, they all walk on water, apparently, and every thing they have done in the last 20 years is considered awesome.

And meanwhile Axl's some sort of super villain who is responsible for everything that's ever gone wrong, ever. He's supposed to have lived his life the way everyone else in the damn world wants him to, made the amount of music everyone else wants, run his band, his management and his personal life the way everyone else thinks he should, and every misstep the guy's ever made is under a microscope. God forbid he's just as human as the rest of them and lives his life the way HE sees fit.

I couldn't disagree more.

Izzy's been out of the spotlight as you say, what is there to criticize? Unlike Slash, Duff and Steven, Izzy has his own thread where several things about him have been discussed. There's not so much to talk about a guy who kept his life completely private, other than discussing his music. If there's something that upsets you about Izzy, let us know what it is and we can discuss it.

About Steven, there's this really crazy idea you and @Frey have that is beyond ridiculous. No one considers Steven a saint, not even close. The difference between Steven and Axl is there are a lot of people who are bigger Axl fans than GNR fans while I've never seen one single person who is a Steven fan first and then a fan of the band. This means, everytime something is said about Axl, there's someone who's gonna try to justify it, defend it, bring a different perspective and all that leads to these long discussions that take place on this thread. With Steven, we all accept how massive of a junkie he was for most of his life, I think we all agree with the band and endorse their decision to fire him so there's no discussion, we agree. But then there's people who claim Steven "whines in the press" and at the same time justify Axl when he calls Slash a cancer or when he writes an embarrasing post on a forum throwing as many insults as he can to a woman because "that's what he sees fit". As I said, some people will always have an explanation for every single thing Axl does and then when it comes to Steven it's "ahh, he's just a stupid junkie". Not accepting this evident double standard doesn't mean considering Steven a saint. I personally love both Steven and Axl (and the other three of course) despite all the things they've done wrong and how fucked up they might be, I don't pretend either of them are perfect or "a saint".

About the projects the other have had through the last 20 years, that's the point. It doesn't matter how successful they were, Slash and Duff had several projects, kept doing things, putting bands together and releasing albums. The idea that everything they've done is considered awesome is something you're making up, you can find a lot of people here who consider most of what they've done to be shit. If you check the thread about the best solo album any of these guys have done, a lot of people claim Izzy's stuff is the only thing they enjoy and everything else is terrible. I feel you're complaining about something that simply doesn't happen here. And, as @Frey said before, when subjects about Slash and Duff come up here, they are discussed too and they get criticized as well. I insist I feel most people on this thread cares more about Axl (as @killuridols and @Andy14 said as well) than about the others and that's why there's more discussion about him, not because everyone hates him here.

Axl's some sort of villain? :rofl-lol: We want him to be HAPPY and we may get concerned when we feel he is not (we might be wrong but it's out of CONCERN, not trying to put him down), he can live his life however he wants, we just want it to work for him. On the other hand, the amount of music he released and the way he's ran the band is plain terrible, I don't see two ways about it. If I told you I consider Steven Adler had a wonderful career after being fired from GNR, you would say I'm delusional yet they've done the same thing without Slash, Izzy and Duff. They released ONE album each and have been touring Appetite For Destruction to death. I want to believe things didn't go the way Axl wanted/expected and he didn't actually mean or decide to do nothing for two decades.

7 hours ago, Frey said:

Nah, I don't think so. This has come up before and a lot of people here are actually huge fans of Slash, Duff, Izzy,... But you know, what is there to really say about Duff for example? He's doing well, he's a good guy, never really done anything controversial or awful, things are going smoothly for him. Not that much to dissect and analyze there.

On the occasions Duff or one of the other guys does something questionable, it gets talked about plenty and it does get criticized. Duff and Slash supposedly being a driving force for Izzy and Steven not being involved or at least not sticking up for them has been criticized and whined about across the entire board. Or as a more WT specific example, Duff (and his wife) have been criticized for pushing their daughters as the next "It Girls" or whatever. Slash has been dragged for various things as well throughout the history of the thread.

Well, I can be wrong (wouldn't be the first time :lol: ) but I'm fairly sure if you do a poll with the people on this thread asking who they're favorite member is, Axl would win it with a massive difference.

Not so much on this thread but I've criticized Slash and Duff a lot for the things I think they didn't handle right and it's sort of crazy, I'm in some sort of weird spot. I get shit for criticizing them but also for not doing it or not doing it enough. I don't know what to do anymore :nervous: I mean, tell me I'm wrong all you want but don't come to me with this bullshit that it's always against Axl.

6 hours ago, stella said:

I've never once read a post about any other band member where people openly say how everything they're doing with their personal lives/friends/etc. is wrong, and yet, people feel free to do that to Axl.

You mean except those times when I said what Slash and Duff are doing with Steven and Izzy is terrible and it sucks and you called me out for saying it? Seriously, Duff has been getting a lot of shit lately (and rightfully so, IMO), I guess somehow you've just missed it. You're invited to come to the Wacky World of the Ominous Izzy Stradlin (gotta love that name :lol: ) and see how we refer to Duff as Harvey Dent and the things that get said about him. You might think we're all wrong and we're a bunch of asshole but you won't accuse us of giving Duff (or Slash) a pass anymore at least

5 hours ago, killuridols said:

It is not true that Steven is adored an treated like a saint here. I've read pretty harsh comments made about him, his life and his mother. In this very same thread people have called him brain damaged and other things. Not to mention that the sexual abuse he's said he suffered it is not approached with the same concern other people feel about Axl's alleged abuse. When talking about Steven he's always addressed as a hopeless drugaddict who can't move on in life and all the bad things he is, he has brought them on himself for getting involved with drugs.

Yeah, thanks for pointing it out!

6 minutes ago, Frey said:

There are only a handful of people who regularly talk shit about Steven and some of the comments are justified. But the vast majority of the people on this board give the guy way more credit than he deserves imo and act like he's the best thing since sliced bread. As for the brain damage discussion, I don't really care for it. I think it's a valid discussion topic, but personally I don't think he suffers from brain damage. With the exception of his speech impediment, the Steven of today is not very different from the Steven of the 80s as far as I can tell. He's always been rather dumb, happy-go-lucky and annoying, as well as messed up in similar ways to Axl and for similar reasons, no need to blame it on brain damage.

There are only handful of people who talk shit about Steven (and like you said, only some of the comments are justified) and there's only a handful of people who say nice things about Steven. I don't know what getting "more credit than he deserves" mean. He's an integral part of the band's original, trademark sound but no one claims he wrote the songs or was more important than Slash, Axl and Izzy. Never seen a claim like that. Just because you and some other people here find him annoying doesn't mean we all should see him that way too. I think he might be the sweetest guy ever when it comes to the way he treats his fans and some of us really appreciate and enjoy that. But as I said before, no one in this forum has Steven as their favorite member so I don't know why some people have this idea that he considered the best thing since sliced bread or why some people seem to get upset at the fact that there's people who actually like him.

stella · April 14, 2017

1 hour ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

I couldn't disagree more.

Izzy's been out of the spotlight as you say, what is there to criticize? Unlike Slash, Duff and Steven, Izzy has his own thread where several things about him have been discussed. There's not so much to talk about a guy who kept his life completely private, other than discussing his music. If there's something that upsets you about Izzy, let us know what it is and we can discuss it.

About Steven, there's this really crazy idea you and @Frey have that is beyond ridiculous. No one considers Steven a saint, not even close. The difference between Steven and Axl is there are a lot of people who are bigger Axl fans than GNR fans while I've never seen one single person who is a Steven fan first and then a fan of the band. This means, everytime something is said about Axl, there's someone who's gonna try to justify it, defend it, bring a different perspective and all that leads to these long discussions that take place on this thread. With Steven, we all accept how massive of a junkie he was for most of his life, I think we all agree with the band and endorse their decision to fire him so there's no discussion, we agree. But then there's people who claim Steven "whines in the press" and at the same time justify Axl when he calls Slash a cancer or when he writes an embarrasing post on a forum throwing as many insults as he can to a woman because "that's what he sees fit". As I said, some people will always have an explanation for every single thing Axl does and then when it comes to Steven it's "ahh, he's just a stupid junkie". Not accepting this evident double standard doesn't mean considering Steven a saint. I personally love both Steven and Axl (and the other three of course) despite all the things they've done wrong and how fucked up they might be, I don't pretend either of them are perfect or "a saint".

@Frey said before, when subjects about Slash and Duff come up here, they are discussed too and they get criticized as well. I insist I feel most people on this thread cares more about Axl (as and said as well) than about the others and that's why there's more discussion about him, not because everyone hates him here.

Axl's some sort of villain? We want him to be HAPPY and we may get concerned when we feel he is not (we might be wrong but it's out of CONCERN, not trying to put him down), he can live his life however he wants, we just want it to work for him. On the other hand, the amount of music he released and the way he's ran the band is plain terrible, I don't see two ways about it. If I told you I consider Steven Adler had a wonderful career after being fired from GNR, you would say I'm delusional yet they've done the same thing without Slash, Izzy and Duff. They released ONE album each and have been touring Appetite For Destruction to death. I want to believe things didn't go the way Axl wanted/expected and he didn't actually mean or decide to do nothing for two decades.

Well, I can be wrong (wouldn't be the first time ) but I'm fairly sure if you do a poll with the people on this thread asking who they're favorite member is, Axl would win it with a massive difference.

Not so much on this thread but I've criticized Slash and Duff a lot for the things I think they didn't handle right and it's sort of crazy, I'm in some sort of weird spot. I get shit for criticizing them but also for not doing it or not doing it enough. I don't know what to do anymore I mean, tell me I'm wrong all you want but don't come to me with this bullshit that it's always against Axl.

You mean except those times when I said what Slash and Duff are doing with Steven and Izzy is terrible and it sucks and you called me out for saying it? Seriously, Duff has been getting a lot of shit lately (and rightfully so, IMO), I guess somehow you've just missed it. You're invited to come to the Wacky World of the Ominous Izzy Stradlin (gotta love that name ) and see how we refer to Duff as Harvey Dent and the things that get said about him. You might think we're all wrong and we're a bunch of asshole but you won't accuse us of giving Duff (or Slash) a pass anymore at least

Yeah, thanks for pointing it out!

There are only handful of people who talk shit about Steven (and like you said, only some of the comments are justified) and there's only a handful of people who say nice things about Steven. I don't know what getting "more credit than he deserves" mean. He's an integral part of the band's original, trademark sound but no one claims he wrote the songs or was more important than Slash, Axl and Izzy. Never seen a claim like that. Just because you and some other people here find him annoying doesn't mean we all should see him that way too. I think he might be the sweetest guy ever when it comes to the way he treats his fans and some of us really appreciate and enjoy that. But as I said before, no one in this forum has Steven as their favorite member so I don't know why some people have this idea that he considered the best thing since sliced bread or why some people seem to get upset at the fact that there's people who actually like him.

For starters, I was obviously being a bit hyperbolic and sarcastic in my post. But to clarify:

1. With Steven, I'm sure he's sweet as they come when he meets the fans, but it amazes me that Steven can go to jail for DV for and leave an entire band in Europe with no money and no way to get home - and he's somehow "a nice guy." Meanwhile nobody has an issue bringing up Axl's DV and how he treated *his* band all the time. NEITHER of them were nice - but one of them seems to get a lot more flak about it and have it rehashed a lot more than the other.

Also, he has whined in the press on every single occasion he's been able to do so, and it's always about how mean the other guys are, how they aren't giving him a chance, how he shouldn't have been thrown out of the band, etc. It's not that he said it once; it's that just about every time you read an interview with him, it's the same comments about how it's never his fault and how everyone is mean to him.

2. I don't think that even those who disliked Madison, such as myself, thought that Axl's rant was particularly cool or approved of some of the language and pejorative terms he used. There's a big difference, though, between thinking something is great and understanding where it may have come from. *We* get pissed off reading this message board, and it's not even about us. As human beings, is it plausible someone could be reading through all this stuff and snap one day? Yep. Would it be right? Nope. Could it still happen? Yes, and it does from time to time.

3. Likewise, I don't think anyone thought it was cool that Axl called Slash a cancer, but that happened, what, once in 20 years, and otherwise his comments were fairly well measured. He didn't even say anything back, to my knowledge, when Scott Weiland decided to make a very nasty statement about him. Oh, there was also the thing about Slash coming to his house, but it turned out that actually happened.

4. There were five guys in the original band, and by their own admission they all had their own issues that contributed to the overall dynamic, but Axl's somehow very often blamed for everything going south. He was blamed because he didn't hook up with Slash and Duff again in the time frame everyone wanted. Every time something's brought up about how GnR dissolved, it's all on Axl. But we don't know that. If GnR had stuck together and done another album, it might have crashed and burned and sent the band into dormancy. Most of the major bands seemed to completely drop off the radar after 1994 or 1995, and the ones who stuck around don't seem to have done as well from 1995-2005 or so. One of them might have OD'd and died. We don't know. But it always seems to be assumed that if Axl hadn't been Axl, they would somehow have stayed together indefinitely and made ten more albums like Appetite, even though they were all growing as people and seemed to be heading in opposite directions, musically.

5. RE: Slash/Duff/Izzy getting called out: I think there's a difference between calling out something they do with the BAND - for instance, opting to keep Steven and Izzy out - as opposed to criticizing their personal lives. I really haven't seen that level of scrutiny of anyone else's personal lives, management, speculation about how their health problems should be treated, etc.

6. I actually agree with you 100% that NuGNR, and the time it took for CD to come out, were disappointing. I wish there had been more music released from the vaults and we'd been able to hear more of the work Axl did with those various producers. I personally would have loved to see him do an album with Moby or something. I actually enjoyed NuGNR the times I saw them, but still, I agree.

But there shouldn't IMHO be an expectation for any musician that they're supposed to put out a certain number of albums, or that if they don't release "enough" music, they somehow suck at life. People take breaks for all sorts of reasons, and when it comes to Axl we don't necessarily know all the reasons things went the way they did. Plus, we all know the industry is different now and a lot of people have moved away from doing albums as frequently, or at all.

I personally feel like Axl and Slash needed to work out their differences in their own time, when they were good and ready - and if that took 20 years, than it did. If they were finally able to get to whatever common ground they needed, of their own accord, they will probably end up working together far longer than they would have if they'd just been pressured into a reunion for money 10 years ago or 5 years ago at the HOF.

7. I get that over here people actually do generally like Axl, but some of the comments about him across this forum - not just this thread - do have a lot of hostility toward him.

8. I also agree with you that perhaps in a perfect world, best case scenario, Axl would perhaps have wanted things to go very differently over the past 20 years. For sure. But that doesn't mean everything he *did* do is a wash, or that he's somehow miserable from it all.

And given that we really don't know all the circumstances...perhaps what he *did* do was the best he could do at that time.

9. I wasn't aware there were Duff and Izzy threads. If they are getting the same kind of judgment and scrutiny that Axl is here, I will freely admit I didn't know and I was wrong about that. See, I can say I am wrong, when I feel that I am.

Edited April 14, 2017 by stella

Frey · April 14, 2017

47 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

About Steven, there's this really crazy idea you and @Frey have that is beyond ridiculous. No one considers Steven a saint, not even close. The difference between Steven and Axl is there are a lot of people who are bigger Axl fans than GNR fans while I've never seen one single person who is a Steven fan first and then a fan of the band. This means, everytime something is said about Axl, there's someone who's gonna try to justify it, defend it, bring a different perspective and all that leads to these long discussions that take place on this thread. With Steven, we all accept how massive of a junkie he was for most of his life, I think we all agree with the band and endorse their decision to fire him so there's no discussion, we agree. But then there's people who claim Steven "whines in the press" and at the same time justify Axl when he calls Slash a cancer or when he writes an embarrasing post on a forum throwing as many insults as he can to a woman because "that's what he sees fit". As I said, some people will always have an explanation for every single thing Axl does and then when it comes to Steven it's "ahh, he's just a stupid junkie". Not accepting this evident double standard doesn't mean considering Steven a saint. I personally love both Steven and Axl (and the other three of course) despite all the things they've done wrong and how fucked up they might be, I don't pretend either of them are perfect or "a saint".

Crazy? :lol: Please, if anyone dared to fawn over Axl like a lot of people do over Steven or said the same sugary sweet shit about Axl that people say about Steven, they'd immediately be branded as an Axl nut-swinger or apologist. And obviously neither I nor @stella were claiming anyone thinks of Steven as a literal saint, it's just a figure of speech. And an appropriate one considering how much people love to overlook Steven's flaws in favor of focusing on what a "sweet, friendly, enthusiastic" guy he is and how GNR sucks without him because his drumming is apparently so crucial and special some people can't enjoy the shows with Frank drumming. Also, I've seen plenty of people arguing against GNR's decision to fire Steven (usually blaming Axl for it too while they're at it).

I really don't understand where you get this idea that Axl has all these people defending him or explaining his every action (never seen anyone defend the cancer comment for example). If anything, no one except for a handfull of people (most of which are considered t*rolls or douchebags) dares to defend Axl (and to a lesser extent Slash and Duff) anymore about anything (I'm speaking of the forum as a whole, the situation is slightly different in this thread). It's become really trendy and en vogue to talk shit about the "Big 3". As you yourself just said, there's an entire thread full of people who love to talk shit about anyone who isn't Izzy or Steven. Not to mention the main section, where more or less every thread turns into an "Izzy/Steven vs. the other three" whine fest. I barely bother reading the main section anymore because it's become so annoying.

47 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

There are only handful of people who talk shit about Steven (and like you said, only some of the comments are justified) and there's only a handful of people who say nice things about Steven. I don't know what getting "more credit than he deserves" mean. He's an integral part of the band's original, trademark sound but no one claims he wrote the songs or was more important than Slash, Axl and Izzy. Never seen a claim like that. Just because you and some other people here find him annoying doesn't mean we all should see him that way too. I think he might be the sweetest guy ever when it comes to the way he treats his fans and some of us really appreciate and enjoy that. But as I said before, no one in this forum has Steven as their favorite member so I don't know why some people have this idea that he considered the best thing since sliced bread or why some people seem to get upset at the fact that there's people who actually like him.

Again, on what planet? (Or rather on what message board?) I'd say the vast majority of the posters in the main section (as well as in other parts of the forum, like the Izzy fanatics thread) constantly say nice stuff about him. Like I said above, it's not very fashionable at the moment to side with Axl/Slash/Duff or to say anything negative about Steven. Because as soon as you say anything negative about Steven (or Izzy for that matter) roughly 500 people will descend upon you to defend these two.

(Also, there was an entire freaking thread which somehow turned into an endless discussion about Steven's song writing credits because by some twisted defintion Steven apparently should have song writing credits and blablabla... as you can probably guess I didn't keep reading this mess of a thread. But yeah, there are people who think Steven contributed to writing the songs on AfD and plenty of people who argue Steven was as important as the other 4 or even more important than Duff for example.)

9 minutes ago, stella said:

1. With Steven, I'm sure he's sweet as they come when he meets the fans, but it amazes me that Steven can go to jail for DV for and leave an entire band in Europe with no money and no way to get home - and he's somehow "a nice guy." Meanwhile nobody has an issue bringing up Axl's DV and how he treated *his* band all the time. NEITHER of them were nice - but one of them seems to get a lot more flak about it and have it rehashed a lot more than the other.

Also, he has whined in the press on every single occasion he's been able to do so, and it's always about how mean the other guys are, how they aren't giving him a chance, how he shouldn't have been thrown out of the band, etc. It's not that he said it once; it's that just about every time you read an interview with him, it's the same comments about how it's never his fault and how everyone is mean to him.

2. I don't think that even those who disliked Madison, such as myself, thought that Axl's rant was particularly cool or approved of some of the language and pejorative terms he used. There's a big difference, though, between thinking something is great and understanding where it may have come from. *We* get pissed off reading this message board, and it's not even about us. As human beings, is it plausible someone could be reading through all this stuff and snap one day? Yep. Would it be right? Nope. Could it still happen? Yes, and it does from time to time.

3. Likewise, I don't think anyone thought it was cool that Axl called Slash a cancer, but that happened, what, once in 20 years, and otherwise his comments were fairly well measured. He didn't even say anything back, to my knowledge, when Scott Weiland decided to make a very nasty statement about him. Oh, there was also the thing about Slash coming to his house, but it turned out that actually happened.

4. There were five guys in the original band, and by their own admission they all had their own issues that contributed to the overall dynamic, but Axl's somehow very often blamed for everything going south. He was blamed because he didn't hook up with Slash and Duff again in the time frame everyone wanted. Every time something's brought up about how GnR dissolved, it's all on Axl. But we don't know that. If GnR had stuck together and done another album, it might have crashed and burned and sent the band into dormancy. Most of the major bands seemed to completely drop off the radar after 1994 or 1995, and the ones who stuck around don't seem to have done as well from 1995-2005 or so. One of them might have OD'd and died. We don't know. But it always seems to be assumed that if Axl hadn't been Axl, they would somehow have stayed together indefinitely and made ten more albums like Appetite, even though they were all growing as people and seemed to be heading in opposite directions, musically.

Absolutely agree on these points.

BorderlineCrazy · April 14, 2017

5 hours ago, stella said:

For starters, I was obviously being a bit hyperbolic and sarcastic in my post. But to clarify:

1. With Steven, I'm sure he's sweet as they come when he meets the fans, but it amazes me that Steven can go to jail for DV for and leave an entire band in Europe with no money and no way to get home - and he's somehow "a nice guy." Meanwhile nobody has an issue bringing up Axl's DV and how he treated *his* band all the time. NEITHER of them were nice - but one of them seems to get a lot more flak about it and have it rehashed a lot more than the other.

Also, he has whined in the press on every single occasion he's been able to do so, and it's always about how mean the other guys are, how they aren't giving him a chance, how he shouldn't have been thrown out of the band, etc. It's not that he said it once; it's that just about every time you read an interview with him, it's the same comments about how it's never his fault and how everyone is mean to him.

2. I don't think that even those who disliked Madison, such as myself, thought that Axl's rant was particularly cool or approved of some of the language and pejorative terms he used. There's a big difference, though, between thinking something is great and understanding where it may have come from. *We* get pissed off reading this message board, and it's not even about us. As human beings, is it plausible someone could be reading through all this stuff and snap one day? Yep. Would it be right? Nope. Could it still happen? Yes, and it does from time to time.

3. Likewise, I don't think anyone thought it was cool that Axl called Slash a cancer, but that happened, what, once in 20 years, and otherwise his comments were fairly well measured. He didn't even say anything back, to my knowledge, when Scott Weiland decided to make a very nasty statement about him. Oh, there was also the thing about Slash coming to his house, but it turned out that actually happened.

4. There were five guys in the original band, and by their own admission they all had their own issues that contributed to the overall dynamic, but Axl's somehow very often blamed for everything going south. He was blamed because he didn't hook up with Slash and Duff again in the time frame everyone wanted. Every time something's brought up about how GnR dissolved, it's all on Axl. But we don't know that. If GnR had stuck together and done another album, it might have crashed and burned and sent the band into dormancy. Most of the major bands seemed to completely drop off the radar after 1994 or 1995, and the ones who stuck around don't seem to have done as well from 1995-2005 or so. One of them might have OD'd and died. We don't know. But it always seems to be assumed that if Axl hadn't been Axl, they would somehow have stayed together indefinitely and made ten more albums like Appetite, even though they were all growing as people and seemed to be heading in opposite directions, musically.

5. RE: Slash/Duff/Izzy getting called out: I think there's a difference between calling out something they do with the BAND - for instance, opting to keep Steven and Izzy out - as opposed to criticizing their personal lives. I really haven't seen that level of scrutiny of anyone else's personal lives, management, speculation about how their health problems should be treated, etc.

6. I actually agree with you 100% that NuGNR, and the time it took for CD to come out, were disappointing. I wish there had been more music released from the vaults and we'd been able to hear more of the work Axl did with those various producers. I personally would have loved to see him do an album with Moby or something. I actually enjoyed NuGNR the times I saw them, but still, I agree.

But there shouldn't IMHO be an expectation for any musician that they're supposed to put out a certain number of albums, or that if they don't release "enough" music, they somehow suck at life. People take breaks for all sorts of reasons, and when it comes to Axl we don't necessarily know all the reasons things went the way they did. Plus, we all know the industry is different now and a lot of people have moved away from doing albums as frequently, or at all.

I personally feel like Axl and Slash needed to work out their differences in their own time, when they were good and ready - and if that took 20 years, than it did. If they were finally able to get to whatever common ground they needed, of their own accord, they will probably end up working together far longer than they would have if they'd just been pressured into a reunion for money 10 years ago or 5 years ago at the HOF.

7. I get that over here people actually do generally like Axl, but some of the comments about him across this forum - not just this thread - do have a lot of hostility toward him.

8. I also agree with you that perhaps in a perfect world, best case scenario, Axl would perhaps have wanted things to go very differently over the past 20 years. For sure. But that doesn't mean everything he *did* do is a wash, or that he's somehow miserable from it all.

And given that we really don't know all the circumstances...perhaps what he *did* do was the best he could do at that time.

9. I wasn't aware there were Duff and Izzy threads. If they are getting the same kind of judgment and scrutiny that Axl is here, I will freely admit I didn't know and I was wrong about that. See, I can say I am wrong, when I feel that I am.

1. I think both Steven AND Axl are nice guys overall. Again, the difference is most people don't care about Steven that much, no one discusses these things. It's not like you read people saying he was right leaving that band in Europe, you just don't see people interested in talking about it. I hope neither of them are doing those kind of things anymore. In Steven's case, the fact that he was fucked up on drugs back then and he's not anymore gives me hope that those kind of actions are in the past but I can't know for sure.

2. A little while ago we were talking about the Madison situation and there were people claiming Axl just handled that the way he saw fit in a sort of "it's his life, he does what he wants" sort of way and I don't like that. I don't want him to get crucified for what he said, I don't consider it that big of a deal, just would wish there were no attempts to justify that.

3. I don't think anyone considered what Axl said about Slash to be cool either, but I've seen people say "Slash talked shit about him too" or that kind of comments to justify a very low comment Axl did. I agree with you, it was just once and again, I don't expect nor want Axl to be crucified for it. I just think we should all be able to agree that saying "Slash is a cancer" was a shitty thing to do, yet some people will look for ways not to admit it. Scott's comment was a response to the "Slash said Scott is a fraud, Duff is spinless..." thing that came from Axl's camp. I didn't like Scott's comments back then at all but I gotta say he later apologized for them.

4. Can't speak for everybody on this one but I think most people acknowledges that the breakup was everybody's fault. Axl had his share with the riots, the control issues, forcing people into the band without anyone's approval and other things but it's not like he nobody else made mistakes or was responisble. I agree with you about them heading in different directions so maybe the breakup was inevitable, I find it kinda pointless to try to see who was the most guilty, it doesn't make sense to me.

5. Well again, there's nothing I can say about Izzy regarding any of those subjects. What do we know about Izzy? He just wrote a tweet claiming he's happy and healthy. That's all I know about him and I hope that's true. I think people analyzes every aspect of Axl's life more than the others' because they care about him more, not because they like him less. Duff's life seem to be going by the book, married for around 20 years, have two daughters, there's not a lot to say I guess. About Slash, I think some people have talked about his relationships with Perla, with Meegan but no one seems as interested in those relationships as they are in Axl's with Erin and Stephanie. Maybe those who care about these things are not as worried about Slash because he looks happy and is not single unlike Axl, I don't know.

6. I enjoyed the band and the shows I saw too, that's probably the most disappointing thing, the feeling that there was a lot of potential and nothing came out of it.

I definitely don't feel that Axl sucks as a person because of the amount of music he released, I don't see a relationship between these two things. ~~I would say he sucks at managing Guns N' Roses on his own, though, lol.~~

7. There are some comments about Axl (and other members too) that can be unnecessarily rough and hostile but I don't think that happens that often IMO. The amount of analysis and over-analysis there is around every aspect of Axl's life can be weird and kinda creepy, though, but as I stated before, my impression is that it comes from a big interest people have for Axl. Sometimes they might read too much into every single little thing and they may get worried or upset or whatever, I really don't feel it's meant against Axl.

8. Maybe he did do the best that he could given the situation he was at but I can totally understand why people wish some things were different.

9. Not a Duff thread, only an Izzy one. I gotta say I feel Izzy's fans are a lot more careful with the things they talk about and the way they approach them (probably they way you wish things were here ). You don't want grumpy Izzy to get mad, you know? :lol:

5 hours ago, Frey said:

Crazy? Please, if anyone dared to fawn over Axl like a lot of people do over Steven or said the same sugary sweet shit about Axl that people say about Steven, they'd immediately be branded as an Axl nut-swinger or apologist. And obviously neither I nor @stella were claiming anyone thinks of Steven as a literal saint, it's just a figure of speech. And an appropriate one considering how much people love to overlook Steven's flaws in favor of focusing on what a "sweet, friendly, enthusiastic" guy he is and how GNR sucks without him because his drumming is apparently so crucial and special some people can't enjoy the shows with Frank drumming. Also, I've seen plenty of people arguing against GNR's decision to fire Steven (usually blaming Axl for it too while they're at it).

I really don't understand where you get this idea that Axl has all these people defending him or explaining his every action (never seen anyone defend the cancer comment for example). If anything, no one except for a handfull of people (most of which are considered t*rolls or douchebags) dares to defend Axl (and to a lesser extent Slash and Duff) anymore about anything (I'm speaking of the forum as a whole, the situation is slightly different in this thread).

Absolutely not!! Aren't you the chairman of something here? Have you not seen all the Slaxl thing? There's an immense amount of love for Axl here. Those who get called Axl nut-swingers or apologists are because of the way they justify the things he does wrong, not because they say sweet things about him. As far as I know, literal saints don't exist so yeah, I totally understood what you meant :lol: I don't think anyone overlook Steven's flaws, they are the pink elephant in the room. Why should people put his disease over the kind of person he is? How many people think the band sucks without him? 3 people? I totally think Frank absolutely sucks (that has nothing to do with Steven) and I know the band sounds better with Steven, there is the footage out there to see, or all the comments Duff and Izzy made about his drumming. Plenty of people argue against GNR's decision to fire Steven? Really?

Seriously? I would say I mostly get it from this thread. Why do you think a lot of people here hate @killuridols (I mean besides the fact that she's grumpy )? They can't stand how she has no problems expressing things she doesn't like about Axl or his life. I'm not saying she's right and others are wrong (that probably varies from time to time, or maybe everyone is wrong, who cares?) but every time she points something out there's an argument to be made, there's an explanation or she's wrong or whatever. I have no problem with this, we are on a forum and discussing is the point I guess, but yeah, I'm pretty sure there always people ready to defend him. I mean, I've seen people defending One In A Million!

5 hours ago, Frey said:

It's become really trendy and en vogue to talk shit about the "Big 3". As you yourself just said, there's an entire thread full of people who love to talk shit about anyone who isn't Izzy or Steven. Not to mention the main section, where more or less every thread turns into an "Izzy/Steven vs. the other three" whine fest. I barely bother reading the main section anymore because it's become so annoying.

Oh yeah, it's so crazy how those Izzy fans get mad at those people who left Izzy out of the reunion of his band over money. What are they thinking? :wow:

Other than that, I find it really hard to see how it's become trendy to talk shit about the "big three". Outside of the Stizzy issue, the biggest complaints have been the lack of new music and the stale setlist. Don't seem to me like people is really mad at these guys, I actually see like 80% of the people happy with the reunion and enjoying the shows. Things get boring and kinda shitty when there's a break because there's not too much to talk about, though.

And I agree about the main section becoming annoying but I feel you have a weird way of seeing it. I wish you could see how hard it is for Izzy's fans to go there and see someone every single day claiming Izzy is not important, he's not needed or even talking about how they're glad he isn't back. Those who only care about Axl and Slash have no empathy with those who love and appreciate the other members and wish they were part of the band again, instead they're too busy telling them how they are a bunch of ungrateful pricks for not being happy with the reunion the way it is...

5 hours ago, Frey said:

Again, on what planet? (Or rather on what message board?) I'd say the vast majority of the posters in the main section (as well as in other parts of the forum, like the Izzy fanatics thread) constantly say nice stuff about him. Like I said above, it's not very fashionable at the moment to side with Axl/Slash/Duff or to say anything negative about Steven. Because as soon as you say anything negative about Steven (or Izzy for that matter) roughly 500 people will descend upon you to defend these two.

(Also, there was an entire freaking thread which somehow turned into an endless discussion about Steven's song writing credits because by some twisted defintion Steven apparently should have song writing credits and blablabla... as you can probably guess I didn't keep reading this mess of a thread. But yeah, there are people who think Steven contributed to writing the songs on AfD and plenty of people who argue Steven was as important as the other 4 or even more important than Duff for example.)

I wish it wasn't fashionable to say anything negative about Steven, it still happens all the time. 500 people defend Steven? Are you confusing this forum with an Aerosmith forum and Steven Adler with Steven Tyler or what? I would really appreciate it if you could introduce me these 500 people, they're probably nice...

I don't think Steven was more important than Duff (nor the other way around) but that's not nearly as fucked up as people claiming Duff is more important than Izzy, which a lot of people seem to think...

Edited April 15, 2017 by BorderlineCrazy

killuridols · April 15, 2017

3 hours ago, Frey said:

There are only a handful of people who regularly talk shit about Steven and some of the comments are justified. But the vast majority of the people on this board give the guy way more credit than he deserves imo and act like he's the best thing since sliced bread. As for the brain damage discussion, I don't really care for it. I think it's a valid discussion topic, but personally I don't think he suffers from brain damage. With the exception of his speech impediment, the Steven of today is not very different from the Steven of the 80s as far as I can tell. He's always been rather dumb, happy-go-lucky and annoying, as well as messed up in similar ways to Axl and for similar reasons, no need to blame it on brain damage.

Well, after reading this and what other people have said regarding this topic, my conclusion is that the different perceptions we have of what's going on in the forum is proportional to the amount of time each one of us spend here and the selective reading we do.

It is impossible to read or keep up with all of the threads we have across the board so maybe you missed those posts where Steven is criticized very harshly and that's how you've formed your opinion that a big amount of people only praise him and love him.

This is not my perception and apparently not @BorderlineCrazy's either but it doesn't mean that we are right and you are wrong. Just like with the Axl topic, I think people choose what to read or what to focus on, mostly based on their personal interests or which member/s they like the most.

I'm not sure Steven is the same person he was in the 80's because I don't remember that during the 80's he spent a lot of time giving interviews and opening up about himself and the band. It was after he was kicked and filed a lawsuit against the band that he started to talk and make himself more visible as an individual.

Regardless of the way he expresses himself, I think he's said many interesting things in his last interviews and whether you and other people find him annoying or not, it is more of your personal problem with him than he actually being annoying or a whiny person. I mean, a lot of people think the same about Sebastian Bach but that doesn't mean he doesn't have his fans and people who don't find him annoying at all, instead find him funny, cool and interesting. It's a matter of personal taste, I believe, and there is no point in arguing among us because of this. To each, their own. :shrugs:

3 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

I insist I feel most people on this thread cares more about Axl (as @killuridols and @Andy14 said as well) than about the others and that's why there's more discussion about him, not because everyone hates him here.

Well... since this is the Women's Thread, it could also be the case that there are many fans here who are sort of "in love" with Axl and like him for reasons beyond the music. He seems to have a large portion of female following for obvious reasons.

The rest of the guys have their female following too but somehow it appears to me that Axl attracts more.

---

All in all, what we have here is failure to communicate... :rolleyes:

I'd like to say that if some people feel the dark side of Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven should or must be talked about, then go ahead and bring the topics for debate.

Posting demagogic texts to basically whine about how certain things do not happen in the thread is useless and it won't change a thing. Less blah blah and more action.

If someone wants to see a shift of subject then stop being a lazy ass, sitting on a chair, reading what other people are posting and complaining about it and for once, speak up and say "look, I think this member and this member personal lives (or careers) should be discussed because of this, this and that" and wait until someone joins the discussion. I am sure there are plenty of forum users with different opinions about Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven and they will gladly talk about that as well.

Expecting that other people will always open your topics of preference is lazy, and demanding that certain opinions or views on Axl are not shared is called censorship in my book.

Censorship is always a sign of frustration and impotence as a result of a personal desire to hegemonize the voices of a given group of people. Please, let's do not get there.

Rocketqueen76 · April 15, 2017

13 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Well, after reading this and what other people have said regarding this topic, my conclusion is that the different perceptions we have of what's going on in the forum is proportional to the amount of time each one of us spend here and the selective reading we do.

It is impossible to read or keep up with all of the threads we have across the board so maybe you missed those posts where Steven is criticized very harshly and that's how you've formed your opinion that a big amount of people only praise him and love him.

This is not my perception and apparently not @BorderlineCrazy's either but it doesn't mean that we are right and you are wrong. Just like with the Axl topic, I think people choose what to read or what to focus on, mostly based on their personal interests or which member/s they like the most.

I'm not sure Steven is the same person he was in the 80's because I don't remember that during the 80's he spent a lot of time giving interviews and opening up about himself and the band. It was after he was kicked and filed a lawsuit against the band that he started to talk and make himself more visible as an individual.

Regardless of the way he expresses himself, I think he's said many interesting things in his last interviews and whether you and other people find him annoying or not, it is more of your personal problem with him than he actually being annoying or a whiny person. I mean, a lot of people think the same about Sebastian Bach but that doesn't mean he doesn't have his fans and people who don't find him annoying at all, instead find him funny, cool and interesting. It's a matter of personal taste, I believe, and there is no point in arguing among us because of this. To each, their own.

Well... since this is the Women's Thread, it could also be the case that there are many fans here who are sort of "in love" with Axl and like him for reasons beyond the music. He seems to have a large portion of female following for obvious reasons.

The rest of the guys have their female following too but somehow it appears to me that Axl attracts more.

---

All in all, what we have here is failure to communicate...

I'd like to say that if some people feel the dark side of Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven should or must be talked about, then go ahead and bring the topics for debate.

Posting demagogic texts to basically whine about how certain things do not happen in the thread is useless and it won't change a thing. Less blah blah and more action.

If someone wants to see a shift of subject then stop being a lazy ass, sitting on a chair, reading what other people are posting and complaining about it and for once, speak up and say "look, I think this member and this member personal lives (or careers) should be discussed because of this, this and that" and wait until someone joins the discussion. I am sure there are plenty of forum users with different opinions about Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven and they will gladly talk about that as well.

Expecting that other people will always open your topics of preference is lazy, and demanding that certain opinions or views on Axl are not shared is called censorship in my book.

Censorship is always a sign of frustration and impotence as a result of a personal desire to hegemonize the voices of a given group of people. Please, let's do not get there.

Give the woman a cigar!

killuridols · April 15, 2017

4 minutes ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

Give the woman a cigar!

Get off my back.

Like you ever come up with anything interesting or reasonable to say.

Rocketqueen76 · April 15, 2017

1 minute ago, killuridols said:

Get off my back.

Like you ever come up with anything interesting or reasonable to say.

You might want to back off because I just gave you a compliment dear....stop being so quick to think everything being said to you is with malice.

killuridols · April 15, 2017

1 minute ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

You might want to back off because I just gave you a compliment dear....stop being so quick to think everything being said to you is with malice.

Most of the things you say to me are mean and not well-intentioned.

I can't trust you and I'm sorry :max:

Rocketqueen76 · April 15, 2017

Just now, killuridols said:

Most of the things you say to me are mean and not well-intentioned.

I can't trust you and I'm sorry

Not true....I never mean ill-will towards anyone and that includes you. I speak my mind just like you do, but never with the intention of malice....difference of opinion maybe, but I am not and have never been a hateful or mean spirited person.

killuridols · April 15, 2017

3 minutes ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

Not true....I never mean ill-will towards anyone and that includes you. I speak my mind just like you do, but never with the intention of malice....difference of opinion maybe, but I am not and have never been a hateful or mean spirited person.

I don't know about that.... But please, let's don't derail the thread with personal shit. I'm sorry I don't have a PM inbox anymore so that we could take this to a private instance :shrugs:

Rocketqueen76 · April 15, 2017

2 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I don't know about that.... But please, let's don't derail the thread with personal shit. I'm sorry I don't have a PM inbox anymore so that we could take this to a private instance

Fair enough.

Frey · April 15, 2017

8 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Absolutely not!! Aren't you the chairman of something here? Have you not seen all the Slaxl thing? There's an immense amount of love for Axl here. Those who get called Axl nut-swingers or apologists are because of the way they justify the things he does wrong, not because they say sweet things about him. As far as I know, literal saints don't exist so yeah, I totally understood what you meant I don't think anyone overlook Steven's flaws, they are the pink elephant in the room. Why should people put his disease over the kind of person he is? How many people think the band sucks without him? 3 people? I totally think Frank absolutely sucks (that has nothing to do with Steven) and I know the band sounds better with Steven, there is the footage out there to see, or all the comments Duff and Izzy made about his drumming. Plenty of people argue against GNR's decision to fire Steven? Really?

Seriously? I would say I mostly get it from this thread. Why do you think a lot of people here hate @killuridols (I mean besides the fact that she's grumpy )? They can't stand how she has no problems expressing things she doesn't like about Axl or his life. I'm not saying she's right and others are wrong (that probably varies from time to time, or maybe everyone is wrong, who cares?) but every time she points something out there's an argument to be made, there's an explanation or she's wrong or whatever. I have no problem with this, we are on a forum and discussing is the point I guess, but yeah, I'm pretty sure there always people ready to defend him. I mean, I've seen people defending One In A Million!

This is the Women's Thread. As I said in my earlier post, I was talking about the message board as a whole because things are slightly different here. I don't see many people justifying things Axl does wrong, if anything some people just try to see things from his perspective or try to understand why he did or said certain things. Which is not the same as justifying anything at all. How many people think the band sucks without him? Plenty. Just head over into D&N and start reading. And yes, again plenty. If I had a penny for every time someone says GNR were hypocritical for firing Steven because they were a bunch of junkies themselves, or any time someone claims Axl wanted to get rid of Steven because he never liked him, I wouldn't be rich, but I'd have a whole lot of pennies.

Again, I wasn't talking about this thread. This thread is full of women. I realize this is sterotyping to a certain extent, but women just tend to be more concerned with other people's emotions and are better at empathizing than the average guy, which creates a more forgiving and understanding environment than can be found in other places on this board. As for @killuridols, I don't hate her. I don't know any of you and I don't hate anyone here (with the exception of a couple of trolls we've had in the past who gave me the urch to punch them in the face). I really don't see what she has to do with this. Since the beginning of this thread, she has expressed plenty of times how much she is concerned and worries for Axl. That's where a lot of the things she says come from and I often share and express the same opinions she has, so...? I guess a lot of people must hate me too then lol.

8 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Oh yeah, it's so crazy how those Izzy fans get mad at those people who left Izzy out of the reunion of his band over money. What are they thinking?

Other than that, I find it really hard to see how it's become trendy to talk shit about the "big three". Outside of the Stizzy issue, the biggest complaints have been the lack of new music and the stale setlist. Don't seem to me like people is really mad at these guys, I actually see like 80% of the people happy with the reunion and enjoying the shows. Things get boring and kinda shitty when there's a break because there's not too much to talk about, though.

And I agree about the main section becoming annoying but I feel you have a weird way of seeing it. I wish you could see how hard it is for Izzy's fans to go there and see someone every single day claiming Izzy is not important, he's not needed or even talking about how they're glad he isn't back. Those who only care about Axl and Slash have no empathy with those who love and appreciate the other members and wish they were part of the band again, instead they're too busy telling them how they are a bunch of ungrateful pricks for not being happy with the reunion the way it is...

I wish it wasn't fashionable to say anything negative about Steven, it still happens all the time. 500 people defend Steven? Are you confusing this forum with an Aerosmith forum and Steven Adler with Steven Tyler or what? I would really appreciate it if you could introduce me these 500 people, they're probably nice...

I don't think Steven was more important than Duff (nor the other way around) but that's not nearly as fucked up as people claiming Duff is more important than Izzy, which a lot of people seem to think...

Dude, ideally I'd want Izzy involved in this as well. But all the whining and thread derailing in the world (or calling the other guys names) isn't going to bring Izzy back. Unless they sort things out among themselves, nothing will change.

This whole thing is also especially obnoxious because we don't know shit about what's going down on this issue. We've got one little tweet by Izzy on the issue that he later deleted and basically nothing from the others, except rumors and one avoidant answer in a lame Brazilian interview. There's so much room for interpretation here and not enough actual facts to justify all the shit the Big 3 get over this, so yeah, crazy. And the setlist whining is equally annoying. Apparently people are too dumb to realize that 99,9% of people who go to GNR shows don't follow every show on Periscope. To them the setlist isn't stale and they want to hear certain songs at a GNR show. Obviously the band is going to base their setlist on those 99,9% and their own preferences and not on the couple of nerds on the internet who've got nothing better to do than watch every damn sow as a grainy, pixellated live stream with bad audio.

Who says Izzy isn't important? I've never seen anyone seriously express that sentiment who wasnt considered a t*oll anyway. Meanwhile, it's considered perfectly acceptable to talk shit about Axl every damn day (and to a certain extent also about Slash and Duff nowadays). So why the need to get so defensive over people saying negative things about Izzy, considering the amount of shit he gets is pretty small compared to what the others get? I'm a fan of Izzy too, I even have a couple of his solo albums lying right next to me at the moment, but I don't think the guy is as innocent and victimized in this situation as many people assume.

I was obviously being hyperbolic when I said "500 people", but again, just read the D&N section, there are enough threads over there that got completely derailed because someone said something negative about Izzy and/or Steven, which immediately leads to certain people swooping in and getting defensive, and in the process completely fucking up the thread and what it orignally was about.

And what's so fucked up about people thinking Duff is more important than Izzy? He is, in some ways, but very different ones than Izzy. Musically speaking, I'd argue Axl, Slash and Izzy were the driving forces behind GNR and therefore the most important ones in that sense. But when it comes to interpersonal relationships, mediating between people, making reasonable decisions in a business sense, taking advantage of connections and so on, Duff has become a very important factor these days. He already played that role to a certain extent back in the day, but it's become glaringly obvious nowadays. Without Duff, we would still be in the dark days of 2012 most likely.

But anyway, let's not continue to argue about this any further because @killuridols is spot on about this:

8 hours ago, killuridols said:

Well, after reading this and what other people have said regarding this topic, my conclusion is that the different perceptions we have of what's going on in the forum is proportional to the amount of time each one of us spend here and the selective reading we do.

It is impossible to read or keep up with all of the threads we have across the board so maybe you missed those posts where Steven is criticized very harshly and that's how you've formed your opinion that a big amount of people only praise him and love him.

This is not my perception and apparently not @BorderlineCrazy's either but it doesn't mean that we are right and you are wrong. Just like with the Axl topic, I think people choose what to read or what to focus on, mostly based on their personal interests or which member/s they like the most.

You and I clearly perceive things very differently and there's no use in arguing about it.

8 hours ago, killuridols said:

All in all, what we have here is failure to communicate...

I'd like to say that if some people feel the dark side of Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven should or must be talked about, then go ahead and bring the topics for debate.

Posting demagogic texts to basically whine about how certain things do not happen in the thread is useless and it won't change a thing. Less blah blah and more action.

If someone wants to see a shift of subject then stop being a lazy ass, sitting on a chair, reading what other people are posting and complaining about it and for once, speak up and say "look, I think this member and this member personal lives (or careers) should be discussed because of this, this and that" and wait until someone joins the discussion. I am sure there are plenty of forum users with different opinions about Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven and they will gladly talk about that as well.

Expecting that other people will always open your topics of preference is lazy, and demanding that certain opinions or views on Axl are not shared is called censorship in my book.

Censorship is always a sign of frustration and impotence as a result of a personal desire to hegemonize the voices of a given group of people. Please, let's do not get there.

I also agree with this. It's really annoying that we frequently have people whining or demanding that a certain topic should be changed or ended. Like :question: Topics sooner or later run their course anyway, as soon as everyone gets tired of discussing them or something more interesting comes up or the discussion just naturally drifts from one topic to the next.

I don't care for certain topics either, but I usually just ignore them and come back at a later time or try to bring in something new to talk about, and people will either latch onto that or they won't. No need to play Thread Police all the time.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Frey

Lumikki · April 15, 2017

LOL you come back to this thread to find out you've been volunteered to marry Axl and to be thrown at Axl like sticky spaghetti :wow: :lol:

Ehhm... I'm not sure what to reply lol. Realistically speaking, Axl is way too old for me and I don't want to deal with TB. But I won't deny that I'd love to talk to him and hang out with him and take care of him a little. If he didn't live on the other end of the planet and everything. But I'll be in L.A. next month, so that's another chance to meet up with my future husband again, I guess :awesomeface: j/k

And I know this sounds weird, but I've always had a bigger urge to adopt Axl than to marry him :rofl-lol: (Never mind the fact that he's more than a quarter of a century older than me). He always appeals to all these motherly, protective instincts in me lol. @killuridols once said I'm like Sinead O'Connor when I said I wanted to wrap him up in a blanket and feed him. I didn't know then that Sinead O'Connor had once said the same thing basically, but I definitely share her sentiments

So if anything, I'd be more like Beta :awesomeface: A better Beta, hopefully. Doesn't Beta need to retire soon?

(If I absolutely have to marry him, I will gladly share Axl with @Andy14. You probably need recovery phases to deal with Axl lol. And me and Andy already know what foods he likes to eat and we also know how to cook them :awesomeface: Housewife dream team right there :facepalm: )

On 9.4.2017 at 3:53 AM, killuridols said:

Yes, but Miss @Lumikki and Miss @Andy14 are not exactly "20 years old" . They are a bit older but I guess from the bunch that was proposed, they might be the youngest. And they are not models either but they are both very pretty (IMO). Capisce?

@Andy14 definitely is a model with her height and long legs and everything :awesomeface: But thanks :heart:

-----------------------------------

Current debate. I agree with @killuridols about different perceptions and everything, but mine is similar to @Freys. Too much hostility towards three fifths of my favorite band, too much thread derailment, too much negativity based on mostly rumors and unfounded speculation. So I usually don't even bother reading certain threads and places anymore.

There's a way to express negative sentiments if they're based on solid reasoning or if done out of concern or worry (like we do here in this thread), but a lot of people out there are just nasty for the sake of being nasty, to position themselves in some way or just to t.r.o.l.l.

-----------------------------------

Anyway, lots of new (at least to me) pictures recently on the interwebs that haven't been posted in this thread for the most part (especially one user on Tumblr seems to have found a well of them or something? So thanks for sharing!)

So... pic spam! Featuring all of them ( :rolleyes: :awesomeface: ), even Dizzy friggin' Reed.

"Sexcharm". Plus Brett Michaels and Axl.

Also why hasn't this been posted here yet? It's an instant classic lol.

And I don't remember if this one was posted or not, but it has Axl and Slash partying together, and Axl wearing nothing but a towel

Also just saw this:

Full page scan of the "Axl singing in choir" picture. Which actually has another picture with Axl in it at the top. The kid in the middle of the second row with the plaid shirt.

Look what a tiny little munchkin he is there :wub: :wub:

The only kid even tinier than him is the one right in front of him lol.

~~Makes me want to grab him an adopt him again right away~~

EDIT: The forum shrinks some of the pictures for some reason (like the first picture of Axl or the school choir picture). I'll try to figure out how to get the bigger version to display.

EDIT 2: This is slightly better I guess. Meh.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Lumikki

Fourteenbeers · April 15, 2017

On 8.4.2017 at 11:21 PM, Tori72 said:

@Frey you're a romantic and that is always heart warming.

I don't think a sane person can have a relationship with him because I feel he is even way more fucked up than we wanna believe. And I go with @killuridolson the whole education/social status/finance/music business/etc stuff. I don't think a relationship between a fan and a famous person can work out.

About the Ned Flanders thing. Yeah, tried to ask them over there in the Wacky thread as well, but was just told I'm even to weird to be true and basically should go back to my home planet. So if you can get some info, I'd still be interested to know (and beam it back home).

Hi, this is my first post (I've registered for this forum just recently). And english is not my first language, so my writing may not be perfect.

I'm Izzy fan :headbang: so I have read the whole Wacky world of Ominous Izzy Stradlin an the NO! gang -thread through. The "Ned Flanders" thing about Duff comes from a story that somebody posted on wacky thread. If somebody has already answered you, then my answer is pointless. But here it goes:

In a nutshell: During some festival in their Velvet Revolver days, Duff got really mad about something (I can't remember what about at the moment) but he was having a serious hissy fit and his wife was trying to calm him down. Somebody on the wacky-thread commented that she/he was happy to know that Duff is human being with real feelings after all, not some perfectly balanced "Ned Flanders", that he likes to present himself as in the media. So some people still keep calling Duff Ned Flanders on that thread. I personally find it cute.

What I find kinda sad about these forums in general, is how much pointless bashing and arguing there is going on. :bitchfight: Most of the arguments are not based on facts, but speculation, half-truths, rumors and lies.

If you asked a valid/polite question on the wacky-thread and my fellow Izzy fans told you to leave the thread, I apologize on behalf of them. Clearly, Stradlin is the kind of guy who can stop your mind functioning properly. :drool: Well I guess same applies to any die-hard fans of any artist...

I love Izzy and GNR (the classic lineup to be exact). I have bought a ticket for the GNR concert here in Finland in July. They actually come to my hometown, so I don't even have to travel.

I'm really sad that the one member of the group I'd like to see the most won't very likely be there (only in my dreams maybe) But I'm going anyway because I'm pretty sure this is the only chance I'm ever gonna have to see them live. I take what I can get. Does anyone else have these kind of feelings???

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