Use your Illusion: Izzy Stradlin's Contributions

[Izzy_Toronto]

6 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Some interesting quotes from Marc Canter:

Gilby was a perfect fit for the live GNR even better than Izzy. There really is no one that could replace Izzy with the songwriting stuff that he had to offer. If the band was going to stay together, it was going to be different. I don't think Gilby would have had that much to offer that would have been used. The way I see it if Slash and Duff had stuck around, the song writing would have come from Slash Duff and Axl. It would have not been the same without Izzy but still very good. There are many old GNR songs that Izzy didn't really have a hand in and they worked out well. Slash was not going to work with Paul and Axl was not going to work on all 12 songs that Slash thought the band was going to do. I do belive that if Slash and Duff didn't sign over their rights to the name, there would have been a much better chance that the Slash and Axl would have met in the middle and work it out.

On Izzy returning to the band in '95:

Izzy was back for a short while. I thought they should have all gone in a room together and write but no one would listen to me so it fell apart fast.

On Gilby being better than Izzy Live:

Not the 1985 to 1988 Izzy. I'm talking about the 1991 Izzy, he didn't move on stage. It was cool to see him sing the 2 songs but he didn't add anything to the swow and his guitar playing was so so. It was not the same Izzy

http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/196898-gilby/

 

I had read that Axl was upset with Gilby in regards to him releasing Pawn Shop Guitars. I guess Axl thought Gilby would share some material with the band. I agree there were some songs on that album that were pretty good. 

I watch a lot of videos of the whole 91 tour. Izzy looked like he was bored. Guess the sobriety didn't fit with touring and being on stage. Who knows what was the atmosphere behind stage. Now that they're all sober I'm sure Izzy would be more into it

[Izzy_Toronto]

3 minutes ago, Sunset Gardner said:

this tour, i think double talkin' jive is a nightly acknowledgement to izzy.  

Exactly. I know he was owed some money from the band in terms of royalties and he wouldn't play until they paid him but Axl seemed happy on stage when Izzy was there. Guess we'll never know

[Zoot]

For those interested, Izzy talks about going back to GNR for the 5 shows in this interview. Starts around the 4 minute mark.

 

[RONIN]

31 minutes ago, Izzy_Toronto said:

I had read that Axl was upset with Gilby in regards to him releasing Pawn Shop Guitars. I guess Axl thought Gilby would share some material with the band. I agree there were some songs on that album that were pretty good. 

I watch a lot of videos of the whole 91 tour. Izzy looked like he was bored. Guess the sobriety didn't fit with touring and being on stage. Who knows what was the atmosphere behind stage. Now that they're all sober I'm sure Izzy would be more into it

According to Marc Canter, Gilby made the band sound too much like ac/dc (the jamming he was doing with Slash for the next album) -- Axl wanted to go in a different direction and Gilby wasn't what he was looking for. 

Fair enough I suppose, I didn't think Gilby should be on a follow-up album but his replacement for Gilby was...Paul Huge? 

I wonder if it was Izzy being a heroin fiend that made him able to put on a good show in the 80's....sort of like Axl hinting that Slash and Duff needed the booze to be able to deal with the crowds at the shows.

[beautifulanddamned]

I get the feeling, watching Izzy's last shows, that he was going through a bout of depression/anxiety. Duff's biography:

I could see right there and then [when the Oslo gig in August, 1991, was cancelled because Axl was in France] that Izzy wasn't going to last. The cadence of his walk was different now: I saw it clearly as the lurch of a bicycle with a misshapen wheel. His face was drawn, his eyes blank, his body language exhausted. He had made it with us, sober, touring. But he couldn't stand pissing off the fans an torturing the crew. He had to confront that reality sober. And at the same time he had to deal with Slash, Matt, and me trying to bury our frustrations by obliterating ourselves with drink and drugs. It was only a matter of time now.  

And who could blame him? Even in the best of circumstances, facing giant stadium crowds has got to be daunting. And his circumstances sucked. Axl, Slash and Duff were all such a mess by that point. And Izzy had not even been sober for two years. Cantor also said that Izzy was upset by all the money they were wasting on videos and jets and parties and curfew fines. They were making shit loads of cash and throwing it all away.

And I wonder what the start of the Illusions albums actually looked like. Izzy said in an interview that he asked Axl if they could get on a schedule and that Axl threw a fit. Probably went something like this.

"We'll meet at the studio at 3:00 on Thursday."

Izzy shows up at 3:15.

Slash and Duff show up at 7:00.

Axl shows up at midnight on Saturday.

All the spare time is spent on booze and coke.

Izzy stops showing up after a few weeks, the rest of the band feels like he just doesn't care.

I think in the beginning there were three alpha-dogs in the band- Axl, Slash and Izzy. Izzy's voice was muted by heroin for a while but when he sobered up he probably felt like he should have an equal say in the band's direction again. But it seems like it was too late for that.  Steven was kicked out and the UYI's became a monster that I doubt Izzy was ever comfortable with.  Sometimes I wonder if money isn't the only reason Izzy isn't there now- maybe S/D/A thought Izzy would upset the power balance if he was too involved. Things with the band are obviously delicate. Axl might be intimidated (I don't know if that's the right word) by Izzy in a way that he just isn't by Slash. Slash wanted Axl in his band right away, he was impressed by his talent from the start. Izzy knew Axl when he was nothing.

[Zoot]

20 minutes ago, RONIN said:

I wonder if it was Izzy being a heroin fiend that made him able to put on a good show in the 80's....sort of like Axl hinting that Slash and Duff needed the booze to be able to deal with the crowds at the shows.

I think Izzy just can't hide when he isn't happy or comfortable with what's going on behind the scenes. If you watch his solo gigs he was always jumping around and moving on stage. Same with his guest spots with VR, Aerosmith, Bo Diddley, Camp Freddy and so on... But with GNR (Post '92) he always seems reserved. Or maybe the pressure of returning to the band makes him uncomfortable.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Kris_1989

[Izzy_Toronto]

5 minutes ago, beautifulanddamned said:

I get the feeling, watching Izzy's last shows, that he was going through a bout of depression/anxiety. Duff's biography:

I could see right there and then [when the Oslo gig in August, 1991, was cancelled because Axl was in France] that Izzy wasn't going to last. The cadence of his walk was different now: I saw it clearly as the lurch of a bicycle with a misshapen wheel. His face was drawn, his eyes blank, his body language exhausted. He had made it with us, sober, touring. But he couldn't stand pissing off the fans an torturing the crew. He had to confront that reality sober. And at the same time he had to deal with Slash, Matt, and me trying to bury our frustrations by obliterating ourselves with drink and drugs. It was only a matter of time now.  

And who could blame him? Even in the best of circumstances, facing giant stadium crowds has got to be daunting. And his circumstances sucked. Axl, Slash and Duff were all such a mess by that point. And Izzy had not even been sober for two years. Cantor also said that Izzy was upset by all the money they were wasting on videos and jets and parties and curfew fines. They were making shit loads of cash and throwing it all away.

And I wonder what the start of the Illusions albums actually looked like. Izzy said in an interview that he asked Axl if they could get on a schedule and that Axl threw a fit. Probably went something like this.

"We'll meet at the studio at 3:00 on Thursday."

Izzy shows up at 3:15.

Slash and Duff show up at 7:00.

Axl shows up at midnight on Saturday.

All the spare time is spent on booze and coke.

Izzy stops showing up after a few weeks, the rest of the band feels like he just doesn't care.

I think in the beginning there were three alpha-dogs in the band- Axl, Slash and Izzy. Izzy's voice was muted by heroin for a while but when he sobered up he probably felt like he should have an equal say in the band's direction again. But it seems like it was too late for that.  Steven was kicked out and the UYI's became a monster that I doubt Izzy was ever comfortable with.  Sometimes I wonder if money isn't the only reason Izzy isn't there now- maybe S/D/A thought Izzy would upset the power balance if he was too involved. Things with the band are obviously delicate. Axl might be intimidated (I don't know if that's the right word) by Izzy in a way that he just isn't by Slash. Slash wanted Axl in his band right away, he was impressed by his talent from the start. Izzy knew Axl when he was nothing.

Apparently in one of the bio's it was said that GNR never made any money on the Illusion tour. Only in the last leg (Skin N Bones) they cut the backup singers and extra musicians and Axl stared to show up on time they made some money

[RONIN]

5 minutes ago, Izzy_Toronto said:

Apparently in one of the bio's it was said that GNR never made any money on the Illusion tour. Only in the last leg (Skin N Bones) they cut the backup singers and extra musicians and Axl stared to show up on time they made some money

Because he was forced to drop that extra shit or cover the excess out of his own pocket. Funny how when you're held accountable, you straighten up fast.

That's what Izzy tried to tell him in '91 - handle your shit or you pay for the riot damage, fines, etc. Axl's answer was to give Izzy a contract demoting him to an employee and leaking to the press that they were looking to replace Izzy with Dave Navarro.

 

[cheesecake]

Reading all these Izzy quotes makes me uber sad. 

Axl was sooo  back then. And doesn't seem much really changed these days.

[Jane M.]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

I wonder if it was Izzy being a heroin fiend that made him able to put on a good show in the 80's....sort of like Axl hinting that Slash and Duff needed the booze to be able to deal with the crowds at the shows.

Maybe. At least he was definitely more talkative and outgoing. 

[BorderlineCrazy]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

According to Marc Canter, Gilby made the band sound too much like ac/dc (the jamming he was doing with Slash for the next album) -- Axl wanted to go in a different direction and Gilby wasn't what he was looking for. 

Fair enough I suppose, I didn't think Gilby should be on a follow-up album but his replacement for Gilby was...Paul Huge? 

I wonder if it was Izzy being a heroin fiend that made him able to put on a good show in the 80's....sort of like Axl hinting that Slash and Duff needed the booze to be able to deal with the crowds at the shows.

"Hey, we're sounding too much like my favorite band, this sucks!". Axl is so weird 

Not sure about Izzy, but drugs and booze definitely helped Duff on stage, he was a lot more fun back then. IMO, Izzy's problem wasn't being clean and sober, he just was miserable and didn't want to be there anymore.

[MADDOGJONES]

9 hours ago, RONIN said:

Because he was forced to drop that extra shit or cover the excess out of his own pocket. Funny how when you're held accountable, you straighten up fast.

 

That's BS, it wasn't even Axl who put together the back up musicians etc, it was Slash.

[RooSaa]

44 minutes ago, MADDOGJONES said:

That's BS, it wasn't even Axl who put together the back up musicians etc, it was Slash.

yes, but wasn't it Axl who wanted them in the first place? Slash just did the work.

[MADDOGJONES]

37 minutes ago, RooSaa said:

yes, but wasn't it Axl who wanted them in the first place? Slash just did the work.

Not sure what it matters, they all agreed to it and Slash put it all together, but all you hear is Axl this Axl that. Slash must have liked the idea somewhat, no? To put it all together? And GNR had dancers and back up girls in the club days so it wasn't anything new for the band to have other people up there.

[Darkenchantress]

13 hours ago, beautifulanddamned said:

Axl might be intimidated (I don't know if that's the right word) by Izzy in a way that he just isn't by Slash. Slash wanted Axl in his band right away, he was impressed by his talent from the start. Izzy knew Axl when he was nothing.

Absolutely. This has been always obvious to me. Izzy and Axl have the longest and most complicated relationship of all of them. No, not even Slash. Izzy was the one who never put up with Axl's shit and never had a problem in telling him NO. 

12 hours ago, RONIN said:

Because he was forced to drop that extra shit or cover the excess out of his own pocket. Funny how when you're held accountable, you straighten up fast.

That's what Izzy tried to tell him in '91 - handle your shit or you pay for the riot damage, fines, etc. Axl's answer was to give Izzy a contract demoting him to an employee and leaking to the press that they were looking to replace Izzy with Dave Navarro.

 

This was so  of Axl. Then when his friend wants to break up with his shit cries to him on the phone not to go. 

[MADDOGJONES]

13 hours ago, RONIN said:

Because he was forced to drop that extra shit or cover the excess out of his own pocket. Funny how when you're held accountable, you straighten up fast.

That's what Izzy tried to tell him in '91 - handle your shit or you pay for the riot damage, fines, etc. Axl's answer was to give Izzy a contract demoting him to an employee and leaking to the press that they were looking to replace Izzy with Dave Navarro.

 

That's all good and well but what you've written here is horseshit, it never happened. Axl never gave Izzy a contract demoting him to an employee. That never happened.

Axl did not have the power in 1991 to attempt to offer Izzy anything without Slash and Duff also being involved. Those three wanted to reduce Izzy's stake in the partnership as they didn't feel he was pulling his weight. Maybe he wasn't? The majority of the band seemed to think he wasn't so I'm not sure why you have any issue with it, you're clearly not very informed on what went down back then.

Since you're so concerned about fairness how do you feel about Steven being given a share of the publishing of songs he didn't write because he was going to sabotage Appetite if the other members didn't give him money he wasn't entitled to from songs he didn't write?

 

Edited March 16, 2017 by MADDOGJONES

[Darkenchantress]

28 minutes ago, MADDOGJONES said:

That's all good and well but what you've written here is horseshit, it never happened. Axl never gave Izzy a contract demoting him to an employee. That never happened.

Axl did not have the power in 1991 to attempt to offer Izzy anything without Slash and Duff also being involved. Those three wanted to reduce Izzy's stake in the partnership as they didn't feel he was pulling his weight. Maybe he wasn't? The majority of the band seemed to think he wasn't so I'm not sure why you have any issue with it, you're clearly not very informed on what went down back then.

Since you're so concerned about fairness how do you feel about Steven being given a share of the publishing of songs he didn't write because he was going to sabotage Appetite if the other members didn't give him money he wasn't entitled to from songs he didn't write?

 

The fact that Slash and Duff agreed with Axl doesn't make him any less guilty. As far as I know, Izzy was composing songs and playing their shows not missing one of them, not being late, not punching audiences, unlike others. So what did he have to do? He hated Axl's masthodontic videos so he choose not to be on them cause he said he didn't have a say on them. But oh, Izzy committed the worst of sins: not to make Axl Rose happy and that's how it all went to shit.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

12 minutes ago, magnumpi said:

Th is person is still pulling his bs

He floods the board with trashing of Steven and izzy and personal attacks anyone who says something positive about them.

 

Great contributor

indeed, he can't possibly be a genuine fan 

 

lets get back on topic, izzy's contributions up to UYI makes it an obvious case that he was fundamental member that probably deserved equal pay but because of his reluctance to play axl's game of saying yes all the time, he chose to resign 

there is nothing wrong with what he did or how he has conducted himself since 

if anything slash and duff are responsible for getting him back in the fold, they can't possibly sit around as innocent parties to this and my feeling is that they do feel some guilt as does maybe axl, but he would rather avoid/downplay the subject to avoid a larger pay day, not very classy to your boy hood friend who made the band famous with you 

my feeling is that they will somehow make amends, i just hope it doesn't fall off the tracks 

[Izzy_Toronto]

5 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

indeed, he can't possibly be a genuine fan 

 

lets get back on topic, izzy's contributions up to UYI makes it an obvious case that he was fundamental member that probably deserved equal pay but because of his reluctance to play axl's game of saying yes all the time, he chose to resign 

there is nothing wrong with what he did or how he has conducted himself since 

if anything slash and duff are responsible for getting him back in the fold, they can't possibly sit around as innocent parties to this and my feeling is that they do feel some guilt as does maybe axl, but he would rather avoid/downplay the subject to avoid a larger pay day, not very classy to your boy hood friend who made the band famous with you 

my feeling is that they will somehow make amends, i just hope it doesn't fall off the tracks 

It's a complete shame Izzy isn't in the mix with the reunion. I'm sure there is a lot of money to be made. Axl could have made this happen but he chose not to for his own reasons. Slash obviously needs the money cause of his divorce and maybe Duff was outnumbered. With all the fans saying that Izzy should just get up there and play and not think about the cash are wrong. Sure it would bug him to get less than he deserves.

[RONIN]

11 hours ago, MADDOGJONES said:

That's all good and well but what you've written here is horseshit, it never happened. Axl never gave Izzy a contract demoting him to an employee. That never happened.

Axl did not have the power in 1991 to attempt to offer Izzy anything without Slash and Duff also being involved. Those three wanted to reduce Izzy's stake in the partnership as they didn't feel he was pulling his weight. Maybe he wasn't? The majority of the band seemed to think he wasn't so I'm not sure why you have any issue with it, you're clearly not very informed on what went down back then.

Since you're so concerned about fairness how do you feel about Steven being given a share of the publishing of songs he didn't write because he was going to sabotage Appetite if the other members didn't give him money he wasn't entitled to from songs he didn't write?

 

Dude, with all due respect, you can be such a drag sometimes. I don't know if you're trolling or just deliberately being obtuse.

“And I never saw it coming. I mean, this is my side of it, he'd probably say I'm completely fucking crazy, but I think he went power mad. Suddenly he was trying to control everything. Did you ever see those fucked up contracts for the journalists to sign?” he asks, referring to the notorious ‘consent forms’ that Axl foolishly tried to foist on the media in 1991. “The control issues just became worse and worse and eventually it filtered down to the band. He was trying to draw up contracts for everybody! And this guy, he’s not a Harvard graduate, Axl. He’s just a guy, just a little guy, who sings, is talented. But man, he turned into this fucking maniac.

When Axl finally sent his old school friend a contract to sign, it was the final straw. “This is right before I left - demoting me to some lower position. They were gonna cut my percentage of royalties down. I was like ‘Fuck you! I’ve been there from day one, why should I do that? Fuck you, I’ll go play the Whiskey’. That’s what happened. It was insane.”

http://teamrock.com/feature/2016-11-07/izzy-stradlin-in-too-deep

  Push finally came to shove in the fall after GN' R completed the first European leg of the tour. Stradlin says he confronted Rose and the band with some changes he felt had to be made "for the sake of the livelihood of the band." One of them was ending the chronic lateness of the shows. Stradlin even went so far as to propose that the responsible party should be fined. That was the last straw. 

      "It was really fucked that it even had to come into play, to base something like that on money," Stradlin grumbles. "But the reality was that it was bumming me out, to be waiting there because someone else is late. It's just not fair to the audience, to the other band members. And the crew! When you go on three hours late, that's three hours less sleep they get." 
      "I expressed my feeling to Axl," he continues, "and the very next night on MTV I saw that I was going to be replaced by the guy in Jane's Addiction. So I took that as an indication that I'd really pissed him off." 
      Stradlin insists that he never wanted to quit GN' R and pursue a solo career. "But Axl made it clear that he was going to do things his way, and there was no space for debate," he says. "So I had to make it clear to everybody that that was the end of the line for me." 

Two days before Thanksgiving, Guns N' Roses officially announced that Izzy Stradlin had left the group. 

http://www.oocities.org/rattlesnake_suitcase/izzyrstone92.htm

The same thing of course eventually happened to Duff and Slash in 1996:

"One time [Axl] called me for a private meeting at his favorite Italian restaurant in Brentwood. [...] As far as I can remember, the meeting was basically an attempt to coerce me into accepting the arrangement he and his lawyers were pushing, but in a lot less heavy-handed manner.' (Slash, Autobiography)

"We signed some document that we'd agree to have put in escrow for a certain amount of time to see if we could work things out. But if we didn't agree to put the terms into effect by certain point, the contract would be null and void, so I signed and let it go."I was forced into a secondary role, while Axl was now offically at the helm if I officially let the escrow contract become effective." (Slash, Autobiography)

“It wasn’t even me necessarily leaving the band,” Slash told Piers Morgan years later. “It was not continuing on with the new band that Axl put together, that he was now at the helm of. The new Guns N’ Roses. I was given a contract to basically join his new band, and it took about 24 hours before I decided this was the end of the line.”

"One particular evening, after they were done for the day, I went [...] to dinner at Chasen's [with Keith Richards.] [...] I'd been at the studio rehearsing all day, so when the conversation swung around to my band, I let it all out. Keith took it all in, and then looked me deep in the eye. 'Listen,' he said. 'There's one thing you never do - you never leave.' [...] Keith inspired me; I felt like I had to try harder. The next day I tried to refocus my outlook and I showed up at The Complex ready to make it work at all costs. [...] Axl never showed up to rehearse and the attorneys' negotiation of our 'employment contracts' had taken a really insulting turn." (Slash, autobiography)

"I went to dinner with Axl and his manager. He was a manager of GN'R and still Axl's. [...] Me and Axl were getting along well and we had very good conversation. [...] I said 'Axl, we had very [much] fun together, but it's your own band now. I'm not interested in you as a dictator. I didn't come here to talk about the money advanced for next record. You can have it.'" (Duff, Burrn Magazine, 12/99)

"I told them I had changed. I said if they needed help, they could just call me. I told Axl this was his band, he had ignored everyone and had hired [Paul Huge,] his best friend for the band. I couldn't play with [Paul]." (Duff, 2000)

 

D : Yes. I was always in the middle, the one both came to see, and I got the impression I arbitrated little kids’ quarrels. Matt was never a full member of the band, he was on an ejector seat and Axl said : « I’m gonna fire him. » I answered that this decision required more than one person to be taken since we were a band, that he alone didn’t own the majority. All of this because Matt told him he was wrong. The truth is, Matt was right, and Axl wrong indeed.

HF : Wrong about what?

D : About schedules and the way Axl was late for the next album. Susan, my girlfriend, was pregnant. We were going to have a baby, but this band was becoming a dictatorship, everything had to get done in Axl’s way or it wouldn’t get done at all. It wasn’t like that when we started out. At one point, we were offered a huge sum of money to play a concert in Germany. I thought : « I never played for money and I’m not gonna start now! ». I’ve got a house, I’m secure financially. Post-Neurotic was the worst moment of my career in Guns. I went out for dinner with Axl and I told him : « Enough is enough. This band is a dictatorship and I don’t see myself playing in those conditions. Find someone else. »

HF : Why did Axl become so egomaniac and arrogant?

D : Because many people around him maintain him in that state of mind. They kept telling him he was right. Some of them feared him cause they were scared they were gonna lose their job. It’s as simple as that. I don’t want to do anything that goes against what I am now. I’m honest with myself and with the people surrounding me. Had I stayed with Axl, I would have acted against my personality. And nothing worse could ever happen to me. In this story, the real losers are Guns N’ Roses fans, unfortunately.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=26

"Imagine you and I grow up together and you're my best friend. OK, I'm in Guns N' Roses and I tell the rest you're going to join the band. "OK, Slash, Axl, Matt, guys, this guy is in the band". "Duff, you got a minute?" "No, he's in the band" "Well, no. Everyone in the band has to vote it, Duff, so no way!" "Fuck you, this guy is in the band! I'm not doing anything unless this guy is in the band" "OK, you know what? We'll try and play with him, since you're that much interested in it. Hey Duff, the guy can't play" "I don't care" "Well that's not very reasonable." (Duff, Popular 1, 07/00)

Duff and Slash may have signed off on Izzy's demotion but it was Axl's idea as Izzy indicates. Duff and Slash also signed over the brand name to Axl. Given Paul Huge being hired and Matt being fired, Axl did not need their permission for anything anymore (since he left the GnR partnership in 1995). I'm sorry if this upsets you. Besides, this is Izzy Stradlin, his oldest friend in the band saying this. Pretty damning really. Whether you choose to accept it is really your call, but the evidence seems to support Izzy's side of the story.

With regards to Steven, I think considering what happened to him, it all evened out in the end. 

Edited March 17, 2017 by RONIN

[Blackstar]

6 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Nothing about Duff and Slash being party to this. Axl fired Alan Niven without their consent. Axl fired Gilby Clarke without their consent.

Slash has admitted that he consented to Niven's firing for personal reasons. He also has implied that he gave in to Axl about Gilby at a moment he was pissed off with him.

As for Izzy's contract, we don't know if Slash and Duff knew and consented. It's true though that typically that thing would need their signature.

[RONIN]

1 minute ago, Blackstar said:

Slash has admitted that he consented to Niven's firing for personal reasons. He also has implied that he gave in to Axl about Gilby at a moment he was pissed off with him.

As for Izzy's contract, we don't know if Slash and Duff knew and consented. It's true though that typically that thing would need their signature.

My mistake you're absolutely right about Niven -- however Izzy, didn't sign off on that to my best recollection. I think the point really is that the "partners" were getting coerced into making decisions they didn't like to appease Axl. They essentially ceded power to him through appeasement.

They probably did consent re: Izzy since he mentions "they" instead of just "Axl" giving him a contract to sign. The implication I assume is that it was an Axl idea re: the contract (his example of the press contracts), but the partners signed off on it. Again, probably to appease Axl. It's hard to imagine Duff going along with this willingly without pressure from Axl and eventually Slash.

[Blackstar]

38 minutes ago, RONIN said:

My mistake you're absolutely right about Niven -- however Izzy, didn't sign off on that to my best recollection. I think the point really is that the "partners" were getting coerced into making decisions they didn't like to appease Axl. They essentially ceded power to him through appeasement.

They probably did consent re: Izzy since he mentions "they" instead of just "Axl" giving him a contract to sign. The implication I assume is that it was an Axl idea re: the contract (his example of the press contracts), but the partners signed off on it. Again, probably to appease Axl. It's hard to imagine Duff going along with this willingly without pressure from Axl and eventually Slash.

We have to consider that what they said later after reviewing things doesn't necessarily reflect their stance at the time of events. Slash, for example, was saying the same about Izzy as Axl. Was it too in the context of appeasing Axl or maybe he agreed with him then? We don't know.

GW:  Is Izzy's recovery the reason he ostra­cized himself from the band?
SLASH : That's probably one of the factors in his unhappiness. He was definitely strug­gling to keep himself clean. That's why he traveled separately from us and so on. But basically, we just came to the conclusion that Izzy wasn't putting in the time we thought was necessary for the good of the band. It had been building up for a  long time. And finally Izzy came out in the open with me and Axl and said he didn't want to deal with the work that was involved. So we decided to work with someone else.

W: Has Izzy left the band for good?
SLASH: That's something I have no idea about- how this is going to affect Izzy and his attitude. He may be  happy not doing this anymore. Or he might really want to come back and make the effort that he was­n't making before. I just can't understand how he could let something like this just fall apart. I mean the guy didn't want to tour or do videos; he  hardly  wanted  to  record.  I  just never thought he was one of those guys that this would happen with. It's a lot different than the Steve Adler situation. So I don't know what's going to happen a year from now: whether we'll be working with Gilby, Izzy or somebody else altogether. A lot of things are up in the air right now . But we've got a heavy duty tour going on, and we've got a killer band to do it.

http://www.slashparadise.com/media/interviews-slash/smoking-gun-guitar-world-february-1992.pdf

As for Duff, yes, it's difficult to imagine him agreeing, but we really don't know...

Edited March 17, 2017 by Blackstar
added

[RONIN]

38 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

We have to consider that what they said later after reviewing things doesn't necessarily reflect their stance at the time of events. Slash, for example, was saying the same about Izzy as Axl:

GW:  Is Izzy's recovery the reason he ostra­cized himself from the band?
SLASH : That's probably one of the factors in his unhappiness. He was definitely strug­gling to keep himself clean. That's why he traveled separately from us and so on. But basically, we just came to the conclusion that Izzy wasn't putting in the time we thought was necessary for the good of the band. It had been building up for a  long time. And finally Izzy came out in the open with me and Axl and said he didn't want to deal with the work that was involved. So we decided to work with someone else.

http://www.slashparadise.com/media/interviews-slash/smoking-gun-guitar-world-february-1992.pdf

Was it to "appease Axl" or maybe he believed that then and really agreed with Axl?

As for Duff, yes, it's difficult to imagine him agreeing, but then we don't know...

There's a great interview from around that time where the reporter mentions to Izzy what Slash has been saying in the press (what you quoted) and he replies something to the effect of "That's not Slash. That's Axl, talking through Slash."

Can't seem to find it at the moment but I'm sure there are others that might recall reading that one -- I believe it was posted here years ago.

Edited March 17, 2017 by RONIN

[Blackstar]

34 minutes ago, RONIN said:

There's a great interview from around that time where the reporter mentions to Izzy what Slash has been saying in the press (what you quoted) and he replies something to the effect of "That's not Slash. That's Axl, talking through Slash."

I'm sure that interview has been put here before but I can't seem to find it...

Yes, I remember this quote. This means that Slash was more or less Axl's puppet? Or maybe Izzy believed, like Alan Niven, that Axl was using psychic forces

Edited March 17, 2017 by Blackstar