WWEROSES Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 11 hours ago, 98izzark said: Since I guess nobody covered either of these two and I haven't checked much of the one and its impossible to really find one for the last track Shackler's Revenge and Sorry as well as If the World and Chinese Democracy: What are your thoughts on these tracks and other's. I really enjoy Sorry the opening makes me think of something that Black Sabbath would of done if they collaborated with Jimi Hendrix, as for Shackler's I love this song, to me it's Chinese what Mr. Brownstone is to Appetite it's a perfect example of Axl using his lower register plus Buckethead has a writing credit on it so you know it's solid. Chinese and If the World were originally the only two songs I really loved off of Chinese before I listened to Shackler's again (kinda forgot about it when I first listened through all of GnR's material, and when I heard Sorry live and went back to it. Chinese is also a badass song and between the album itself and live it's a great opener definitely worthy of being on the album. If the fucking World, I couldn't love this song more it's something I could not see the original lineup doing and is the prime example for me that proves GnR doesn't just have to be Appetite for Destruction (and the Illusion albums) they can be so much more diverse and just genre splitting if people would just fucking embrace it. These are the only four songs I have off of Chinese on my phone which is my main source for listening to music (fuck streaming services) but Better gets an honorable mention but it's a little too meh to me even tho the opening guitar and axl's vocal melodies in the begging is fucking amazing. 9 hours ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said: Oh God, finally, someone who appreciates CD! Thank you! Apologies in advance for this being ridiculously long, I’ve a lot of pent up love for this album. I don't even care that it's overproduced, over-layered, confused...etc... I've just re-discovered CD, to be honest. I dutifully bought it when it first came out, dismissed it, shelved it. Pulled it back out a few months ago and I don't know what's changed about me, but I fucking love it now. OK. If the World. I don't know how I missed it first time round, but second time? I’m mesmerised. Can't believe it doesn't get more attention. Love Shackler's. Wonderful chorus. I think that's the song that Duff said really caught his attention. Love There was A Time (the guitar solo makes me want to cry) Street of Dreams and Better. Oddly enough, the one I severely dislike is the only one everyone else seems to enjoy, the sickly sweet, whimsical This I Love. Hate the whole fucking arrangement, the mushy strings...urgh. Sorry, to me, is a masterpiece. I’m genuinely baffled as to why so many fans don’t like it. The lyrics cop a bashing, yet you’ve got some gems here: You chose to hurt those that love you and won’t set them free; It’s harder to live with the truth about you than to live with the lies about me – one of the most honest and powerful lines Axl has ever written. Brilliant for its sheer brutal simplicity. The whole final verse, especially You don’t know all that you’ve done for me – is really a key lyric because it undermines all the bitterness and loathing that precedes it, suggesting he’s merely venting, and doesn’t really hate whoever he’s singing about, in fact the opposite could be true. He denies it’s about Slash. I think that’s a damn shame. I would hope Slash influenced it in some small way. Vocally, Sorry showcases Axl at his best. When he comes in with Nobody owes you…etc…like a wailing banshee, it honestly gives me chills. And contrast that with the ominous fire and brimstone outro vocal…this should have way more love. Anyway, I’ve gone on. I agree, if people leave behind expectations and approach CD as an Axl solo project (because that’s what it is), they might appreciate the songs on their own merits. You both pretty much summed up how I feel about the album. I actually had the album shoved into my CD case under my car seat and I completely forgot about it til recently when I was skimming through what to listen to on a road trip. Sometimes I just don't like having the music on shuffle when it comes to using my phone, so I figured I poke through my book. I threw in Chinese just for the hell of it and wow. I must say at first, I didn't really care for the album 9 years ago, only a few songs I could really get into. But for whatever reason, maybe its because of age and just myself getting older but I found myself hooked on every song that came on and caught myself singing along. This album in my opinion is developing a bit of a following now where people are actually starting to warm up to it despite it "not being Guns N' Roses" even though it says it on the label. In whole, the album kinda reminds me of the how messy and unorganized the band was back in the 80s. No where near perfection but for whatever reason, it just works and damn does it do it well. For me, there isn't a track on there that I don't like and I cannot decide which song is my favorite, it all just depends on my mood. I must say at the moment, Better, There Was A Time and especially Prostitute are currently on heavy rotation. Prostitute is just an amazing melody and I find myself just rocking out to it until the intro where its the keyboards and piano slowing drifting into the distance.. not trying to be a pervert but the outro to Prostitute reminds me of a feeling after climaxing...even though the song isn't really about that, the song for me reminds me of being used sexually and being suckered into it by the thoughts of love, but after its over, the love isn't there, it was't real, but when you're holding that person, you're in a cloud of peaceful bliss, holding that person close..as if it were real and you couldn't be happier...sorry for the randomness, its 4 am here and I haven't slept in 21 hours, lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gracii Guns Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Chinese Democracy is one of those albums where the tracks work together well as a composite piece of work. Few stand out as fantastic songs in their own right, but that means others aren't worse off because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimezy Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Man i can't believe no one mentions Prostitute 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 1 hour ago, WWEROSES said: You both pretty much summed up how I feel about the album. I actually had the album shoved into my CD case under my car seat and I completely forgot about it til recently when I was skimming through what to listen to on a road trip. Sometimes I just don't like having the music on shuffle when it comes to using my phone, so I figured I poke through my book. I threw in Chinese just for the hell of it and wow. I must say at first, I didn't really care for the album 9 years ago, only a few songs I could really get into. But for whatever reason, maybe its because of age and just myself getting older but I found myself hooked on every song that came on and caught myself singing along. This album in my opinion is developing a bit of a following now where people are actually starting to warm up to it despite it "not being Guns N' Roses" even though it says it on the label. In whole, the album kinda reminds me of the how messy and unorganized the band was back in the 80s. No where near perfection but for whatever reason, it just works and damn does it do it well. For me, there isn't a track on there that I don't like and I cannot decide which song is my favorite, it all just depends on my mood. I must say at the moment, Better, There Was A Time and especially Prostitute are currently on heavy rotation. Prostitute is just an amazing melody and I find myself just rocking out to it until the intro where its the keyboards and piano slowing drifting into the distance.. not trying to be a pervert but the outro to Prostitute reminds me of a feeling after climaxing...even though the song isn't really about that, the song for me reminds me of being used sexually and being suckered into it by the thoughts of love, but after its over, the love isn't there, it was't real, but when you're holding that person, you're in a cloud of peaceful bliss, holding that person close..as if it were real and you couldn't be happier...sorry for the randomness, its 4 am here and I haven't slept in 21 hours, lol. Prostitute is another great underrated track and I also love the outro...something about it tends to put me a trance, which is a bit of a hazard when you're at the supermarket checkout waiting your turn. That's an intriguing take on the outro you have there and I totally get it. I find it hugely interesting discussing/learning about other people's take on Guns songs. It's just fascinating how one song can mean a variety of different things to different people. And yeah, I sense the tide turning more in favour of CD lately, possibly because newer, or casual Guns fans are checking it out now, and don't have the baggage of expectation. I do wonder what it is about getting older that makes you appreciate music you previously didn't care for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWEROSES Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 40 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said: Prostitute is another great underrated track and I also love the outro...something about it tends to put me a trance, which is a bit of a hazard when you're at the supermarket checkout waiting your turn. That's an intriguing take on the outro you have there and I totally get it. I find it hugely interesting discussing/learning about other people's take on Guns songs. It's just fascinating how one song can mean a variety of different things to different people. And yeah, I sense the tide turning more in favour of CD lately, possibly because newer, or casual Guns fans are checking it out now, and don't have the baggage of expectation. I do wonder what it is about getting older that makes you appreciate music you previously didn't care for? Yes! I'm glad I'm not the only one who appreciates Prostitute! And I completely agree about how the outro can put you into a trance, lol. I haven't had the supermarket experience yet but I have zoned out while listening to that outro during my road trips and I end up missing my exit on more that one occasion, lol. I'm not really tech savey, but I wish I could isolate that outro track and put it in a lope to either fall asleep to or walk the beach while collecting my thoughts. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is fascinated by peoples takes on Guns songs, especially anything off of Chinese. I think you're right about the tide turning in more favour CD lately, I think its a combination of what you just said, less baggage now that the album has been out for 9 years, more casuals are checking it out, and with the band currently on tour playing a handful of the songs is probably catching peoples curiosity. Good question about what it is about getting older makes you appreciate music more. I think its a matter of maturity really, when you think about it, when you're young, most people have a very narrow sight on whats good music and whats not, you just focus on the beat, the hard hitting riffs, the blistering ear bleeding screaming, but then you come to realization that aspect of music is good, but what the song is about, the lyric content, and certain melodies mean more to you and hit you harder to your core..and I think that's probably due to as you get older, you have more life experiences and certain songs you can latch onto, relate too, attach a memory too, even if the song isn't about anything related to your experience, but the song itself means something to you that's apart of that experience. When I first got into Guns, I was 14 years old and most of my musical taste at the time was all the 90's Nu Metal. At the time, I was pretty ignorant towards outer genres of music and pretty much said, if it isn't rock/metal, it isn't worth listening to. Now that I'm 30 and have experienced life a little more, I find myself listening to just about everything. What's your take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.. Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 It doesn't flow as a coherent album, it's definitely not a concept album, I never listen to it back to back and almost never have ever since the release. But it's still one of my favorite albums ever for a lot of reasons. I wouldn't have gotten into Guns n' Roses had this album not been released. I knew some songs like Sweet child o' mine, You could be mine, November Rain, Don't Cry, Paradise City, Nightrain, Welcome to the jungle, but believe it or not, before Chinese, it did nothing for me. I think part of the reason why I love this album so much is because it's filled with disappointment from Axl. It's... it's very "negative", it's like Star Wars Episode III (not the best example but first thing that sprang to my mind). It's almost tragic, it's the downfall of Axl. I think the lyrics and the melodies he chose to keep are very reflective of his mindspirit at the time those were recorded. I love all their old material now, but back in 2008 I was in the worst moment of my life. Very depressed. This album helped me a lot and knowing what Axl went through 1996-2008 helped me a lot. In a way, I was relieved to see that guy who had it all also went through a very harsh period. One of the things that surprised me the most is that after Stephanie Seymour, he didn't (not that we know of anyway) date someone seriously, as if that woman was so important to him that he wasn't able to love anyone as much as her afterwards. Coming from someone who could get any girl he wanted, I found it incredible. I thought this guy is not the typical rock star. Also the way he picked his musicians so carefully... Who would hire Buckethead in a band like Guns n' roses? No fucking body. But he knew the talent of that guy, and he was always very picky in his choices, it's very rare. This album is a reflection of a lot of those stuff. This man has integrity. Out of the tracks, my favorites still remain There was a time, This I love, Prostitute, Catcher in the Rye and Street of Dreams. Amazing tracks. Riad is very very weird, If the world is just bland and Scraped is an abomination, I will never understand how they made it to the album. I still enjoy CD, Sorry, I.R.S. (actually I love that one!), Better, Shackler's Revenge and Madagascar. But you really have to know what Axl went through to enjoy it fully. Axl and all the people that worked on this album can be proud of their work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its Tino Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 15 hours ago, RONIN said: Great post. I actually think Sorry and ITW are the strongest cuts on CD oddly enough (not counting the CITR demo). That being said, both seem to have tragic flaws that stop them from greatness. The blaxploitation porn groove on ITW seems senseless. I think a legit Bond style song would have worked better instead of something that's neither here nor there. Sorry is musically great but is saddled with some unfortunate lyrics that flirt with Get in the Ring territory. There's some strong verses mixed with some crap and it just brings the song down imho. Bucket is masterful on this one though (and ITW). I agree with you that it feels like a UYI 3 type of song. Very much so - which is why I was a bit surprised to see how much old school fans don't care for it. Definitely hear some Sabbath and Floyd in there. This song is (musically) what I wanted to hear more of in Chinese Democracy. yeah some of the lines on Sorry are unfortunate for sure, mostly "I'll kick your ass..." Bright spot being "it's harder to live with the truth about about you..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8AXL Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 (edited) My track list for CD would be 1 CD (solid opener) 2 Shacklers (different but good) 3 Better (good rock song) 4 Street of Dreams (nice and catchy) 5 If the world (different but good) 6 Catcher (Good artistic achievement) 7 TWAT (fucking awesome) 8 Sorry (always liked no problem with lyrics) 9 IRS (simple rock song) 10 Madagascar (good bloody song) 11 This I Love (beautiful arrangement and vocals) 12 Prostitute just beautiful Edited July 27, 2017 by L8AXL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynard Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I don't like Axl's solo album, Chinese Democracy. I do like some versions of Better and Madagascar. I hope GNR releases a new album of original songs one day, the last one were the UYIs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.. Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Ha ha what a story maynard we're so lucky we have you as a poster and I love my girlfriend so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonGuns Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 20 hours ago, ZoSoRose said: My biggest complaint with CD is that it is only one album. Id love the rest to leak someday with Bucket and Robins work especially intact This ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F*ck Fear Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I love Chinese Democracy! Like Appetite, it's an album I can listen to from start to finish. TWAT, Prostitute and Better are my favorite tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
life_247 Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 I really like Sorry - always have. Also it was the best song live in my opinion off the whole record - I remember standing nearish to the front at Reading festival and everyone was not feeling the new stuff (a few people knew CD and Better) but Sorry everyone was into it. Shacklers - erm its a good song underneath a lot of layers and some horrible BH/Ron stuff (honestly there's far too much noise and noodling - and the solo is a bit erm well its been said before). Also there is 3 vocal layers - there's just far far far too much on it. Sorry on the other hand has very clear instrumentation - one lead vocal line, then the backing vocals (with bach). I don't really understand the hate for it - but its the way most of the tracks should of been mixed. I assume it was one of the last tracks completed so there wasn't 3,000 overdubs recorded to pick through. It also sounds different while still something everyone could get on board with from the old Guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zurimor Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 (edited) CD is one of those albums which need some cycles of listening to due to its many layers. I listen to quite some progressive rock myself and the best way to appraoch such albums is to focus on just one, maybe 2 layers. Focus on something different next cycle and so on, once you "know" all the layers it's much easier to put them together and that's where such albums start to become good. Maybe it's not after 5 times, maybe not even 10 times, maybe you'll need 20 times or more. Or maybe you just really don't like that kind of music. Edited July 29, 2017 by Zurimor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonGuns Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Liked RIR3 versions of The Blues and Madagascar, and loved the 2004 leaks of IRS, Better, TWAT. However the album versions of Blues and Madagascar are weak (too many layers, poor vocals) and the further overdubs, ambient intros and layers on the rest of the album did depreciate its quality versus those earlier versions. That said love the album and holding out for an untouched CD2 with bucket some day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lies They Tell Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 I always liked CD, so don't have much new to say about. I'll just quickly go through every song. Chinese Democracy To me this is for some reason a very motivational song. Lines like "Cause it would take a lot more time than you have got for masturbation" and "All I've got is precious time" inspire me to not waste my time and give me ambition to work on my projects instead. One of my favorite songs on the album because of that reason. And also because it just rocks so much. Shackler's Revenge This song perfectly captures the feeling of planning revenge. I love listening to it when I'm angry. A pretty simple song, but it has probably the best chorus of the entire album. Better This song sounds the most like what I actually expected Chinese Democracy album to sound like. I like the contrast between the poppier "no one ever told me when I was alone" -parts and the heavier "I never wanted you to be so full of anger" -parts. It's like fire and ice. Probably my favorite song on the album. Street Of Dreams I like it when ever I hear it, but in many ways it feels like just a poor mans version of November Rain. It's not as memorable as November Rain. I really like the lyrics though and Dizzy's piano intro is probably the best part of the whole song. Good song, but not amazing. If The World My least favorite song of the album. I do understand why some people like it. It does have a nice vibe and some great guitar playing. But I just don't like the cheesy chorus. My biggest problem with most pop-songs is that they're just pretty much a bad chorus that's repeated over and over again. This is kinda like that, but just a tad better. In general I like experimental music and mixing porn groove, flamenco and a James Bond style chorus is experimental. I'll give you that. But all in all it's just not a song that I enjoy very much. There Was A Time Perhaps my second favorite song of the album. Everything just works. Love the lyrics of the verses. Amazing guitar solos. One of the things that I respect most about Axl Rose is that he's one of those artists who writes lyrics that truly fit and complement the music behind it. The instruments and the vocals are telling the same story so to speak. It's not just some random lyrics thrown on top of some random guitar playing. They actually complement each other. The reason why I'm talking about this here is because TWAT is in my opinion a perfect example of this. Catcher In The Rye Great song, that thematically feels perhaps the most out of place on the Chinese Democracy album. But I don't care. I know that this is not a popular opinion here, but I actually prefer the album version over the Brian May leak. Scraped This song gets a lot of hate and I suspect it's mostly because of the strange intro. But if you forget the intro, it's actually a decent rock song at least in my opinion. Riad N' The Bedouins Instrumentally this song is actually one of my favorites on the album. It just sounds so badass and aggressive. The leak version is even better. Lyrically this song is a bit strange though, but it makes more sense when you know that Riad is actually the former brother in law of Erin Everly and this song is about him. Sorry This is very different compared to anything else by GNR. Kinda like Pink Floyd meets Metallica. I like it. A good song to listen to when you're disappointed at someone. I even like Axl's reggae voice at the "But I don't want to do it" -part. Otherwise the song would be maybe a little too serious, but that part kinda gives it a more tongue in cheek feel. Sorry also feels like a Get In The Ring sequel with the "I'll kick your ass like I said that I would". I.R.S I like this one, but the final version is a bit too polished for my taste. In my opinion this song works better live, cause I like it raw. Madagascar This one works, when I'm in the right mood. All in all it's probably my second least favorite song of the album though. I rarely listen to it, but when I'm sad and hurt, I like the "Forgive them that tear down my soul and bless them that they might grow old" lyrics. Martin Luther King Jr. s speech is also so epic, that it deserved to be made into a song. This I Love A bit cheesy perhaps, but I like the lyrical honesty of this one. You can't really talk abut mad love in a honest way without sounding cheesy. I actually started crying when I heard this the first time and I don't cry easily. There's just something so sincere and heartbreaking about this song. Prostitute Great ending to a great album. It's an uplifting ending in many ways, which is great cause a lot of the songs on the album are a bit sad and depressing. The lyrics are actually the best part of this song to me. It's about a person who tries to do things right and even if some may think that he failed at that and even hate him for it, at least he knows himself that he's done his best. These are some relatable lines to me: "If my intentions are misunderstood, please be kind, I've done all I should" "Why would they tell me to please those that laugh in my face" The Moby style ending of the song is perfect too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericy210 Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Sorry if it's been discussed before. Do you all have to crank up Prostitute for it to be the same volume as the other songs? It's been like that since day one for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonGuns Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 46 minutes ago, ericy210 said: Sorry if it's been discussed before. Do you all have to crank up Prostitute for it to be the same volume as the other songs? It's been like that since day one for me. Not noticed that, but I do find Shacklers very loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) On 29/07/2017 at 0:44 PM, Lies They Tell said: Riad N' The Bedouins Instrumentally this song is actually one of my favorites on the album. It just sounds so badass and aggressive. The leak version is even better. Lyrically this song is a bit strange though, but it makes more sense when you know that Riad is actually the former brother in law of Erin Everly and this song is about him. Today is a landmark day for me: Riad N' The Bedouins finally clicked for me after I don't know how many attempts to connect with it. Holy shit do I love this fucking song now. How weird is that. I can't stop listening to it. And each and every listen I hear something new, something I missed before, and it just gets better and better. It's also the song that I believe best demonstrates the 'buried' GnR sound. That is one sexy riff - best on the entire album, hands down. Axl's vocals are to die for on this track and most resemble his old style. My Michelle springs to mind. Especially the lyric, "You aaaaagravate me" with his trademark growl. The guitar work is begging for Slash to play it. Begging I tell you. Is crying out for Duff's bass. I wish they'd play this live. Imagine how much more swagger Slash and Duff would add to this? Edited August 1, 2017 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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