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Rollingstone.com thinks November 21st is the date!

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By slashplay
in 2006

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adnan FRONTMAN

adnan

Posted
Posted
**standing in the record store**

hmmmmm,which one should I buy...Supernova,or Guns N Roses

:rolleyes:

Dude, did you even get my point?

A band which has the names Guns N' Roses, Metallica and Motley Crue, plus a hit reality show, vs. a band with little promotion, no album in 13 years and only one remaining member of the original lineup. All the teens are going to go with Supernova. For Chinese Democracy to be released with the Supernova album would be suicide, it'll still debut at number one, surely, but with not nearly as many sales as it could have had.

We need gigantic sales, and I'm sorry, releasing it on the same day as the Supernova disc would be a bit silly.

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PS_PoWeR Senior

PS_PoWeR

Posted
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You are making a meritless assumption with your statements....If just a bunch of aging, fat middle aged GNR fans go buy GNR while all the hiphop fans and young teens/kids (whom have developed in this hiphop musical world) go with Jay-Z, Jay-Z will KICK GNR'S ASS in opening week sales.

Actually, I think you're the one making meritless and foolish assumptions.

You assume that all young kids are hip hop fans, and that the only people listening to rock are older fans. You couldn't be more wrong. This forum alone shows there are a lot of young kids out there who are into rock: They're more familiar with classic rock - such as Led Zeppelin and Van Halen - that they are of hip hop - even though many of them were toddlers when these rock bands were at the top of their game. I think that speaks volumes!

And that's the audience - as well as the older rock fans - that the label is targeting first. If it can bring in some of the hardcore hip hop fans in the process - even better. But I highly doubt they're targeting the diehard rap fans first and gambling that they can suddenly convert this group into rock fans. This would make no sense - and they would lose.

They need to get the rock fans talking and building a buzz in the music world in order to get the diehard hip hop listeners to give rock a chance.

This is a hip hop culture. It's what MTV focuses on, and what the mainstream youth listen to. Sure, you'll find some kids listening to Led, but you'll also find kids listening to Jazz, Classical, and Country. This is what we call "niche".

Genre plays a role here, but is it not the only element at work. Hiphop > Rock right now, but it is possible for a rock-ish band (Nickelback, FalloutBoy) to thrive.

Now let's talk about a second element at play simultaneously. Mainstream consciousness and respect. You may be surprised to hear this, but I went to a high school the other day (where my friend teaches), and the grand majority of kids had NO IDEA what "GNR" was. After I said the full name, several were like "oh yeah" then said "they're pretty cool".

GNR has been gone for over a decade and has disappeared from mainstream consciousness. This is why the embarassing 2002 half empty arenas. Jay-Z HAS BEEN AROUND and simply has SO MUCH MORE mainstream consciousness than GNR right now, especially among the all-important youth segment. This advantage, combined with rock's struggles as a whole, give Jay-Z the total edge.

As for you stating that they should target rock fans (young and old) first, then take others as they come along, if you know anything about promotion and business, one of the first rule is the elimination of constraints. You don't want to settle for a segment. You want to sell to as many people as possible as quickly as possible, especially in this industry. Given the popularity of hiphop and rap and nu-metal, it is a given that if you want to sell to the masses, you're gonna have to draw some fans from these genres.

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Takeshi FRONTMAN

Takeshi

Posted
Posted
A band which has the names Guns N' Roses, Metallica and Motley Crue, plus a hit reality show, vs. a band with little promotion, no album in 13 years and only one remaining member of the original lineup. All the teens are going to go with Supernova. For Chinese Democracy to be released with the Supernova album would be suicide, it'll still debut at number one, surely, but with not nearly as many sales as it could have had.

We need gigantic sales, and I'm sorry, releasing it on the same day as the Supernova disc would be a bit silly.

Supernova or rockstar supernova as they are now known since they lost their lawsuit, really aren't that much of a threat to GN'R. We're talking about a band without a really good songwriter. Gilby didn't write anything for GN'R and Jason Newstead wasn't one of the main songwriters in Metallica. So that leaves us with tommy lee. The guy who couldn't make it onto the college marching band on his reality tv show. Rockstar supernova is just a bunch of second stringers from well known bands. If they had izzy, lars or anyone of that calliber then it might be a different story, but it's not.

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Zint LEGEND

Zint

Posted
Posted

**standing in the record store**

hmmmmm,which one should I buy...Supernova,or Guns N Roses

:rolleyes:

Dude, did you even get my point?

All the teens are going to go with Supernova.

yep,I got your point

I happen to know that not all the teens will go with Supernova.

I have faith in CD sales...it's going to do just fine. ;)

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KBear FRONTMAN

KBear

Posted
Posted (edited)

Nov 21st would be awesome. I have that week off. It would be great timing.

As for this whole Jay-Z thing, I really don't know the answer to that. There probably isn't a right answer, it's all a matter of opinion and strategy. Week one sales I think is a bit overhyped. You get some attention but so what? It's fleeting. When the week is over nobody cares anymore.

What I think they are going for with this album is first, to have it be a long-term sales success. That shouldn't be a problem because Axl is always good for a bunch of great songs per album (especially with ten years to work on one). There will be IMO at least four strong singles, so right there you have four chances to spike sales. Songs that people love, plus lots of hype, is what gets them to buy an album. Second and less important, and I don't know how easy this will be, but I think they would love this album to be critically acclaimed by both fans and the media. Axl will be somewhat vindicated if he can come up with an album that you could put up there with the old stuff, not to mention albums from other bands from years gone by.

The last big rock albums were from, off the top of my head, Green Day and U2. It would be interesting to know who those bands took on in their first week, if anyone has quick access to the info. If they took on some heavy hitters then I'd take that as pretty good evidence that it doesn't really matter if GN'R takes on Jay-Z. And American Idiot, I seriously doubt, did amazingly well because of week 1 sales. Green Day generated a lot of buzz with their album and were able to maintain that for months.

Anyways, I respect Jarmo's opinion and all, but why would Merck issue him a flat denial but not to dozens of others? That is a little suspicious. Actually, whatever GN'R says is suspicious. They will tell us whatever suits their needs. Which is why emailing Merck and the band is pointless. I'm not gonna dump on whoever does this but you aren't going to get the answer that you want to hear.

Edited by KBear
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KBear FRONTMAN

KBear

Posted
Posted
That entire web site looks like a joke. Read the news headlines carefully...

Streisand's Punk Rock Bush-Bashing

Bin Laden Seized? Bush Dead? Cheney Named Prez for Life?

And why would the "Subscribe to magazine" link be this?...

https://w1.buysub.com/servlet/OrdersGateway...s_page_id=31638

Maybe they got hacked?

ER

A lot of websites will have a different URL for certain sections that looks similar to the one you posted. And the site displays fine for me. Someone said before that their site wasn't displaying properly.

Those headlines you quoted seem like a satirical piece, which I assume RS does among their many other articles. But I haven't read the article, not interested enough to do so.

For those who visit RS occasionally, well, it looks about the same as it always does. It's not the best designed site to begin with perhaps, but it's functional enough. They could use some more Fergie pics though. Wowza!

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Malicious Matt Senior

Malicious Matt

Posted
Posted

A band which has the names Guns N' Roses, Metallica and Motley Crue, plus a hit reality show, vs. a band with little promotion, no album in 13 years and only one remaining member of the original lineup. All the teens are going to go with Supernova. For Chinese Democracy to be released with the Supernova album would be suicide, it'll still debut at number one, surely, but with not nearly as many sales as it could have had.

We need gigantic sales, and I'm sorry, releasing it on the same day as the Supernova disc would be a bit silly.

Supernova or rockstar supernova as they are now known since they lost their lawsuit, really aren't that much of a threat to GN'R. We're talking about a band without a really good songwriter. Gilby didn't write anything for GN'R and Jason Newstead wasn't one of the main songwriters in Metallica. So that leaves us with tommy lee. The guy who couldn't make it onto the college marching band on his reality tv show. Rockstar supernova is just a bunch of second stringers from well known bands. If they had izzy, lars or anyone of that calliber then it might be a different story, but it's not.

Hey now. He made it.

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adnan FRONTMAN

adnan

Posted
Posted

**standing in the record store**

hmmmmm,which one should I buy...Supernova,or Guns N Roses

:rolleyes:

Dude, did you even get my point?

All the teens are going to go with Supernova.

yep,I got your point

I happen to know that not all the teens will go with Supernova.

I have faith in CD sales...it's going to do just fine. ;)

Obviously it'll do well, but there's stiff competition on that weekend that could reduce the sales.

A band which has the names Guns N' Roses, Metallica and Motley Crue, plus a hit reality show, vs. a band with little promotion, no album in 13 years and only one remaining member of the original lineup. All the teens are going to go with Supernova. For Chinese Democracy to be released with the Supernova album would be suicide, it'll still debut at number one, surely, but with not nearly as many sales as it could have had.

We need gigantic sales, and I'm sorry, releasing it on the same day as the Supernova disc would be a bit silly.

Supernova or rockstar supernova as they are now known since they lost their lawsuit, really aren't that much of a threat to GN'R. We're talking about a band without a really good songwriter. Gilby didn't write anything for GN'R and Jason Newstead wasn't one of the main songwriters in Metallica. So that leaves us with tommy lee. The guy who couldn't make it onto the college marching band on his reality tv show. Rockstar supernova is just a bunch of second stringers from well known bands. If they had izzy, lars or anyone of that calliber then it might be a different story, but it's not.

Have you heard Gilby's solo stuff? He's a really good songwriter. The S'Nova disc will probably be average, but the popularity of the tv show is a threat to Gn'R's sales.

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KBear FRONTMAN

KBear

Posted
Posted

**standing in the record store**

hmmmmm,which one should I buy...Supernova,or Guns N Roses

:rolleyes:

Dude, did you even get my point?

All the teens are going to go with Supernova.

yep,I got your point

I happen to know that not all the teens will go with Supernova.

I have faith in CD sales...it's going to do just fine. ;)

Obviously it'll do well, but there's stiff competition on that weekend that could reduce the sales.

A band which has the names Guns N' Roses, Metallica and Motley Crue, plus a hit reality show, vs. a band with little promotion, no album in 13 years and only one remaining member of the original lineup. All the teens are going to go with Supernova. For Chinese Democracy to be released with the Supernova album would be suicide, it'll still debut at number one, surely, but with not nearly as many sales as it could have had.

We need gigantic sales, and I'm sorry, releasing it on the same day as the Supernova disc would be a bit silly.

Supernova or rockstar supernova as they are now known since they lost their lawsuit, really aren't that much of a threat to GN'R. We're talking about a band without a really good songwriter. Gilby didn't write anything for GN'R and Jason Newstead wasn't one of the main songwriters in Metallica. So that leaves us with tommy lee. The guy who couldn't make it onto the college marching band on his reality tv show. Rockstar supernova is just a bunch of second stringers from well known bands. If they had izzy, lars or anyone of that calliber then it might be a different story, but it's not.

Have you heard Gilby's solo stuff? He's a really good songwriter. The S'Nova disc will probably be average, but the popularity of the tv show is a threat to Gn'R's sales.

Yeah, if just 1 in 10 of those who watched the show buy the album it'll do pretty well. I heard two of their studio recordings (it's on the Supernova page on their label's website) and they aren't half bad. Lukas sounds pretty good. I mean, the songs are nothing special but they are decent. No solos though. <_<

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Zint LEGEND

Zint

Posted
Posted

**standing in the record store**

hmmmmm,which one should I buy...Supernova,or Guns N Roses

:rolleyes:

Dude, did you even get my point?

All the teens are going to go with Supernova.

yep,I got your point

I happen to know that not all the teens will go with Supernova.

I have faith in CD sales...it's going to do just fine. ;)

Obviously it'll do well, but there's stiff competition on that weekend that could reduce the sales.

A band which has the names Guns N' Roses, Metallica and Motley Crue, plus a hit reality show, vs. a band with little promotion, no album in 13 years and only one remaining member of the original lineup. All the teens are going to go with Supernova. For Chinese Democracy to be released with the Supernova album would be suicide, it'll still debut at number one, surely, but with not nearly as many sales as it could have had.

We need gigantic sales, and I'm sorry, releasing it on the same day as the Supernova disc would be a bit silly.

Supernova or rockstar supernova as they are now known since they lost their lawsuit, really aren't that much of a threat to GN'R. We're talking about a band without a really good songwriter. Gilby didn't write anything for GN'R and Jason Newstead wasn't one of the main songwriters in Metallica. So that leaves us with tommy lee. The guy who couldn't make it onto the college marching band on his reality tv show. Rockstar supernova is just a bunch of second stringers from well known bands. If they had izzy, lars or anyone of that calliber then it might be a different story, but it's not.

Have you heard Gilby's solo stuff? He's a really good songwriter. The S'Nova disc will probably be average, but the popularity of the tv show is a threat to Gn'R's sales.

Yeah, if just 1 in 10 of those who watched the show buy the album it'll do pretty well. I heard two of their studio recordings (it's on the Supernova page on their label's website) and they aren't half bad. Lukas sounds pretty good. I mean, the songs are nothing special but they are decent. No solos though. <_<

And that's what it will probably boil down to...one in ten or thereabouts.

It was a fun show to watch,but in this disposable music world of today,it's already yesterday's news.

There will be some initial buzz,but Monkees 2006 is a flash in the pan.If anyone thinks there is any sort of longevity to Supernova,you're in for a rude awakening.

Ultimately,Chinese Democracy...good or bad,like it or hate it...it WILL be talked about for years to come,and that in itself is a victorious achievement over any first week sales numbers.

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madison LEGEND

madison

Posted
Posted
....

This is a hip hop culture. It's what MTV focuses on,..

"What MTV focuses on?" ... Are you kidding? Sorry dude, but I don't know anybody - young or old - who thinks MTV is the credible music channel it once was. It no longer makes and breaks trends -- it just follows the money and fills most of its time slots with those brain-dead reality shows that nobody in the music world cares about. The channel spends about 10% of its time on music - and the rest of the time following around horny teenagers in a house. That's not music.

.. and what the mainstream youth listen to. Sure, you'll find some kids listening to Led ...

Actually, I'm amazed how many really young kids are listening to Zep, Van Halen, the Doors and other classic rock bands. It's quite extraordinary.

.. Genre plays a role here, but is it not the only element at work. Hiphop > Rock right now, but it is possible for a rock-ish band (Nickelback, FalloutBoy) to thrive...

Everything goes in cycles. Rock will return - with the right album from the right band at the right time. A few years ago, I thought we'd never see the end of those God-awful boy/girl bands -- but lo and behold - that cycle finally died a painful death.

.. Now let's talk about a second element at play simultaneously. Mainstream consciousness and respect. You may be surprised to hear this, but I went to a high school the other day (where my friend teaches), and the grand majority of kids had NO IDEA what "GNR" was. After I said the full name, several were like "oh yeah" then said "they're pretty cool"....

Let me guess - your friends' entire musical knowledge - like yours - is based on MTV and its teen reality shows? Sorry - just wondering.

.. GNR has been gone for over a decade and has disappeared from mainstream consciousness...

I don't consider being "mainstream" to necessarily be a good thing.

It's the artists who bring a different sound and different edge to the table that will grab the spotlight and set trends - not the flavor-of-the-month bands who spew out that same crap over and over because it seems to sell right now.

.. As for you stating that they should target rock fans (young and old) first, then take others as they come along, if you know anything about promotion and business, one of the first rule is the elimination of constraints. You don't want to settle for a segment...

Au contraire - you have to start with a segment that you know will get behind the music and create a buzz - and those are the rockers. You can't just jump into the hip hop scene and expect them to suddenly rally behind rock. It doesn't work that way. So you create a buzz by targeting the ones you know are hungry for rock - and expanding from there. If you try to be all things to all people all at once, you'll wind up with nobody.

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