Serious debate – does anybody else see the glaring link between Azoff & Skwerl?

[Guest NewGNRnOldGNR]

Axl Rose countersued Irving Azoff when the latter originally initiated a legal process against the former in 2010 (it has, as we all know, since been settled). One of the glaring claims in Axl’s ‘case’ was that he felt Azoff somehow sabotaged the eventual release of his decade old production Chinese Democracy. Immediately of course the cynics lambasted Axl; citing this most recent act of ‘lunacy/delusion’ as further evidence of his mental complexity.

"He asked where I got them, and I told them that I didn’t know the identity of my source. "

Kevin Cogill speaking to the GN’R Syndicate

When Kevin Cogill was questioned by the FBI regarding the provocateur to his random possession of the most anticipated album this century, he replied that he didn’t know. Funny isn’t it? How a guy could secure the physical incarnation of Chinese Democracy (CHINESE DEMOCRACY guys, the mythical creature supposed to be the continuation of Use Your Illusion), and not know from whom.

It would seem rather, that someone within the label, wanted to expose Chinese Democracy to someone that would inevitably leak - given the reward of publicity to a self-professed rock website seeking views – but at the same time maintain an anonymity to protect their own personal interests (a reunion perhaps?) and professional position (most influential exec in the industry).

"What I can also say is that we completed our investigation, and figured out exactly where the songs came from, and how they wound up in my hands. I could go public with this information, but for now, I’m saving it for a rainy day."

Cogill, in the same interview with Syndicate

When eventually allowed time to think, ‘Skwerl’ was able to pinpoint the origins of the Antiquiet leaks. With the context of Axl’s very public fall-out with Mr. Azoff as support, does anybody else suspect that Kevin Cogill came to the same apparently ‘bat shit crazy’ conclusion as Axl Rose? That, Irving Azoff, with an entire army of label inferiors to undertake the realization of his sinister ambitions, personally ensured Chinese Democracy felt into the hands of a would be leaker, simply because Axl Rose wouldn’t oblige to his million dollar wet dreams including the Hall of Fame Guns N’ Roses and a certain Van Halen?

Edited January 4, 2013 by NewGNRnOldGNR

[bacardimayne]

Never thought of that, but it's very possible.

[Freddie Mercury's Ghost]

Possible.

And if true, it ultimately forced Axl's hand and the album was released soon after.

Azoff is a smart man.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Freddie Mercury's Ghost

[ARX77]

you may be right. If true Azoff put his career on the line. What artist would work w/ a manager the purposely sabatoged an album release??

[AxlRose14]

Interesting thought... I imagine Axl is convinced t0 this day Skerwl got the leaks from Azoff, but all I care now is what Cogill thinks...shame we'll never find out..

[eggers]

No.

[dalsh327]

I don't think Azoff would directly do something like that, he wasn't on Axl's shitlist until he went to Ticketmaster.

Azoff would've paid for Cogill's lawyers if he had anything to do with it. I think he's played both sides, because Don Henley's very anti RIAA, but why would he not leak the Eagles (at least one of the 2 discs for "Long Road Out of Eden") yet leak GNR? That's career damaging.

Azoff had worked with record companies and ran a record company in the past, but not at this time.

Maybe Cogill would reveal who he got the music from now because enough time has gone by, he prob. has a Facebook and Twitter acct, or would do it on his own site, but I think the "rainy day" is something along the lines of a book, but he'd prob. say if the source came from within the record company or band management.

[Guest NewGNRnOldGNR]

Azoff would've paid for Cogill's lawyers if he had anything to do with it.

No he would not have, in any way. Azoff didn't want to be identified to either party. He would have needed someone that would be inclined to leak the album but would also have needed to not have any personal contact with the chosen individual. He'd have a authorized a lower rank label rep giving Chinese Democracy to Skwerl.

Had Azoff financed Kevin's case in court; it would have been all the evidence Axl needed to link the two.

you may be right. If true Azoff put his career on the line. What artist would work w/ a manager the purposely sabatoged an album release??

Anybody that wouldn't know about it. Which is everybody.

[username]

Axl Rose countersued Irving Azoff when the latter originally initiated a legal process against the former in 2010 (it has, as we all know, since been settled). One of the glaring claims in Axl’s ‘case’ was that he felt Azoff somehow sabotaged the eventual release of his decade old production Chinese Democracy. Immediately of course the cynics lambasted Axl; citing this most recent act of ‘lunacy/delusion’ as further evidence of his mental complexity.

"He asked where I got them, and I told them that I didn’t know the identity of my source. "

Kevin Cogill speaking to the GN’R Syndicate

When Kevin Cogill was questioned by the FBI regarding the provocateur to his random possession of the most anticipated album this century, he replied that he didn’t know. Funny isn’t it? How a guy could secure the physical incarnation of Chinese Democracy (CHINESE DEMOCRACY guys, the mythical creature supposed to be the continuation of Use Your Illusion), and not know from whom.

It would seem rather, that someone within the label, wanted to expose Chinese Democracy to someone that would inevitably leak - given the reward of publicity to a self-professed rock website seeking views – but at the same time maintain an anonymity to protect their own personal interests (a reunion perhaps?) and professional position (most influential exec in the industry).

"What I can also say is that we completed our investigation, and figured out exactly where the songs came from, and how they wound up in my hands. I could go public with this information, but for now, I’m saving it for a rainy day."

Cogill, in the same interview with Syndicate

When eventually allowed time to think, ‘Skwerl’ was able to pinpoint the origins of the Antiquiet leaks. With the context of Axl’s very public fall-out with Mr. Azoff as support, does anybody else suspect that Kevin Cogill came to the same apparently ‘bat shit crazy’ conclusion as Axl Rose? That, Irving Azoff, with an entire army of label inferiors to undertake the realization of his sinister ambitions, personally ensured Chinese Democracy felt into the hands of a would be leaker, simply because Axl Rose wouldn’t oblige to his million dollar wet dreams including the Hall of Fame Guns N’ Roses and a certain Van Halen?

Far-fetched but not impossible. I've always felt that Azoff might have had something to do with the actual leaking, but as a means of promotion.

Thing is, I never really saw it as pressure. I mean, why would it apply pressure to Axl? 6 of those tracks were already leaked anyway. It didn't put the pressure on Axl in 2006, so why would more of it do it now. Plus it might hurt business. So I don't really see applying pressure to Axl as a motive.

[ManetsBR]

Wow, downliner made a great research. Where there's smoke, there's fire, and there's sure something stinky about this whole story. Imagine if Trent Reznor had leaked Chinese Democracy? Ha!

[dalsh327]

I don't know what motive Azoff would have to leak the songs. He had motive to line a reunion up, because he tries to make his clients as much money as possible. He thought he could reunite GNR.

But there's two names, and I want you all to think about the reason why they would have anything to do with the leak, intentionally or unintentionally.

Going back to the APC theory with Howerdel and Freese, you're leaving one name out, that was back and forth between NIN and GNR - Robin Finck.

I'm not saying it was intentional, but think about what he may have had access to, what he may have had on his laptop, and what someone may have copied off of there.

Second suspect, to me the most likely to be behind the leak, to not give a fuck if it did leak, and to quote Tommy, "fucked the whole thing up".

Jimmy Iovine.

Think about it - he's the label head, he did a lot to undermine Axl even though he has a reputation of being "artist friendly", picked Roy Thomas Baker to spiral the costs out of control, so why wouldn't he be the one to stick the knife if Axl's back by leaking it, when he OWNS the master tapes, and could make Cogill a scapegoat to the RIAA, which would be in his favor in scaring downloaders of the pop stars with Interscope?

"I have had Jimmy Iovine, the president of that label, come up to me on every record from With Teeth onwards saying I should do some sort of urban thing — it was Timbaland for a while, then it was Pharrell for a while — because ‘that’s how you sell records." - Trent Reznor on Jimmy Iovine

I'm not saying Iovine was the one behind the leak, but I could see someone from within Interscope, intentionally or accidentally, leaking the songs.

\

[AxlRose14]

By that theory Iovine leaked Blood in the water and Better gone as well...

I really don't think anything leaks on accident. EVER. And anyone who believes otherwise is very naive.

Not saying Axl knew...but someone knew. They just don't accidentally end up in the hands of Skerwl

[wasted]

The label were obviously sloppy and prob just had copies of it laying around the office. Someone walk by and it was gone.

I expect to meet with Mr. X later in the park next to the Nixon statue to find out. Dont ask yourself how but why? why would they allow CD to leak at such a crucial point in GNR history. With Azoff waiting in the wings saying "ill give you your goddamned reunion."

[dalsh327]

Going back to the APC theory with Howerdel and Freese, you're leaving one name out, that was back and forth between NIN and GNR - Robin Finck.

Sure I mentioned Finck in my long-ass post somewhere There's also Jeordie White, he has ties to both APC and NIN - and as long as that connection between Skwerl and APC exists it means that anyone from APC or the NIN camp could be responsible, anyone from band members to roadies in either camp may have known Skwerl. As dalsh says, who knows what Finck had on his laptop - absolutely anyone could have copied these tunes if Finck had them, but that person chose AntiQuiet.com to leak the songs (a site which at the time had only been open for 12 weeks and was basically unknown)

Sorry for the oversight on Robin, but to me,someone who bounced between NIN and GNR who did a lot of the work on Chinese Democracy, could've easily wound up in the wrong hands.

Back to Iovine - I just think if someone was intentionally sabotaging Axl - he'd be the one to do it, or someone working for him. He's pro RIAA and would make an example out of Cogill. Azoff's criticial of the RIAA. They might be friends but they prob. don't agree on everything. It's possible Iovine tried to convince Azoff to get Slash and Axl in the same room, and made sure there was no way Axl would be able to connect him to it.

As I said, Tommy blames Iovine for a lot of the problems GNR went through. Keep in mind, when nuGuns was happening, the golden goose known as Eminem was starting to make it big. And in 2008, another golden goose, Lady Gaga, was also making it big.

He wasn't going to badmouth Chinese Democracy,at least in public. But just from what Tommy said, indicated otherwise.

It would be interesting if Cogill's source was the same that sent MSL the files.

[wasted]

Everything seems to leak. But only CD seems to have an almost strategic campaign of leaks whichwere almost positive. They toured off the Better leak.

[dalsh327]

Everything seems to leak. But only CD seems to have an almost strategic campaign of leaks whichwere almost positive. They toured off the Better leak.

The leak that Mike Piazza had on Eddie Trunk's show sounded like it caught GNR & Geffen Records off guard. He also got it from an unnamed "source".

[GnR Chris]

Those were exciting times for the band. More exciting than the current endless touring with no hopes of new songs. I hate to say it, but I wish someone would leak SOMETHING. Even one song we haven't heard.

[Kill Devil Hill]

Wow at downliner's post. I don't care what anyone says: the Chinese Democracy years were by far this band's most interesting years. I would laugh so hard if Trent was the culprit.

[AxlRose14]

Robin Finck leaked chinese democracy...

[axlsalinger]

Everything seems to leak. But only CD seems to have an almost strategic campaign of leaks whichwere almost positive. They toured off the Better leak.

The leak that Mike Piazza had on Eddie Trunk's show sounded like it caught GNR & Geffen Records off guard. He also got it from an unnamed "source".

If I remember correctly, Piazza said he was going through a stack of mail, and there was a package that did not provide any info on where it came from, but simply contained a CD with something like "GNR-IRS" written on it. So evidently it was mailed to him anonymously.