Facekicker

Rogue One: A Star Wars Story **SPOILERS**

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I absolutely love it!!! Finally a great Star Wars movie after the original trilogy. I would say for me there is before and after the hologram where the weakness of the Death Star is reveled. After that gets better and better building up to an amazing battle and ending

I may go to see it again :headbang:

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So someone help me out with this logic here, and correct me if I'm wrong

So, at the end of Revenge of the Sith, seemingly only a few weeks or months after Anakin gets high grounded into a lava bath and becomes Vader, we see Tarkin, Palpy, and Vadar viewing the construction of the Death Star.

To me this means either one of two things, one, construction of the death star had begun already, in secret, even before Palpy genocides the Jedi and assumes the power of Emperor. Or two, it only took a few weeks or so to get a good 1/4th of the Death Star constructed.

So flash forward to Jyn and Le Chifee. When the Empire comes to kidnap Le Chifee, it seems as though the Empire is at least fairly well established. There's a toy stormtrooper that has a New Hope style visor, and Jyn looks about five or six. At this time we learn the Death Star isn't all the way completed.

Jyn must be about what, 21-25 in Rogue One? Meaning she was likely born right at the end of the Clone Wars, or slightly before. So when Empire man comes to snatch Le Chifee, its likely right after the Clone Wars to the tune of one year or less.

So they managed to get all the work done on the Death Star that we see in Revenge of the Sith in a matter of weeks or months, but then it takes 20 years to finish the rest of it?

This of course, on top of the fact that the Empire threw together a bigger badder Death Star in the short span of time between the end of A New Hope and the beginning of Return of the Jedi.

Obviously this isn't the fault of Rogue One, its the fault of George Lucas for including a shot of a Death Star under construction at the end of RoTS.

Man those prequels ruin everything don't they. [/spoilers]

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I've heard you can skip this movie and not miss much. 

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13 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

I've heard you can skip this movie and not miss much. 

It doesn't really mean much in the series. It is essentially the opening crawl of A New Hope turned into a movie.

It's a very entertaining and ultimately satisfying film, but it doesn't really dramatically change my understanding of the saga. So in that sense you could skip it and not miss much.

Really its just a film that exists to fill in some details and cover up a plot hole regarding the Death Stars "weak spot".

But its a neat little chunk of Star Wars to geek out to, its a well made film, and it does a bit of universe expansion that was absent from TFA

Edited by Dan H.

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59 minutes ago, Dan H. said:

So someone help me out with this logic here, and correct me if I'm wrong

 

  Hide contents

So, at the end of Revenge of the Sith, seemingly only a few weeks or months after Anakin gets high grounded into a lava bath and becomes Vader, we see Tarkin, Palpy, and Vadar viewing the construction of the Death Star.

To me this means either one of two things, one, construction of the death star had begun already, in secret, even before Palpy genocides the Jedi and assumes the power of Emperor. Or two, it only took a few weeks or so to get a good 1/4th of the Death Star constructed.

So flash forward to Jyn and Le Chifee. When the Empire comes to kidnap Le Chifee, it seems as though the Empire is at least fairly well established. There's a toy stormtrooper that has a New Hope style visor, and Jyn looks about five or six. At this time we learn the Death Star isn't all the way completed.

Jyn must be about what, 21-25 in Rogue One? Meaning she was likely born right at the end of the Clone Wars, or slightly before. So when Empire man comes to snatch Le Chifee, its likely right after the Clone Wars to the tune of one year or less.

So they managed to get all the work done on the Death Star that we see in Revenge of the Sith in a matter of weeks or months, but then it takes 20 years to finish the rest of it?

This of course, on top of the fact that the Empire threw together a bigger badder Death Star in the short span of time between the end of A New Hope and the beginning of Return of the Jedi.

Obviously this isn't the fault of Rogue One, its the fault of George Lucas for including a shot of a Death Star under construction at the end of RoTS.

Man those prequels ruin everything don't they. [/spoilers]

The Death Star in ROTS is just a skeleton. I'm not sure the Death Star wasn't completed before Rogue One, I think Rogue One is just finishing with the laser part because they had to mine the Kyber crystals.

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1 hour ago, Dan H. said:

So someone help me out with this logic here, and correct me if I'm wrong

 

  Hide contents

So, at the end of Revenge of the Sith, seemingly only a few weeks or months after Anakin gets high grounded into a lava bath and becomes Vader, we see Tarkin, Palpy, and Vadar viewing the construction of the Death Star.

To me this means either one of two things, one, construction of the death star had begun already, in secret, even before Palpy genocides the Jedi and assumes the power of Emperor. Or two, it only took a few weeks or so to get a good 1/4th of the Death Star constructed.

So flash forward to Jyn and Le Chifee. When the Empire comes to kidnap Le Chifee, it seems as though the Empire is at least fairly well established. There's a toy stormtrooper that has a New Hope style visor, and Jyn looks about five or six. At this time we learn the Death Star isn't all the way completed.

Jyn must be about what, 21-25 in Rogue One? Meaning she was likely born right at the end of the Clone Wars, or slightly before. So when Empire man comes to snatch Le Chifee, its likely right after the Clone Wars to the tune of one year or less.

So they managed to get all the work done on the Death Star that we see in Revenge of the Sith in a matter of weeks or months, but then it takes 20 years to finish the rest of it?

This of course, on top of the fact that the Empire threw together a bigger badder Death Star in the short span of time between the end of A New Hope and the beginning of Return of the Jedi.

Obviously this isn't the fault of Rogue One, its the fault of George Lucas for including a shot of a Death Star under construction at the end of RoTS.

Man those prequels ruin everything don't they. [/spoilers]

On top of what

@luciusfunk said, I'm sure a lot of trial and error went into the Death Star, particularly in regards to the laster. The frame is the easy part, it probably could very well be completed in a matter of weeks. Galen Erso was a science engineer, his role was specifically related to how to make everything work on the Death Star. So I think it's totally plausible that even if the skeleton (Hell even all the furnishing) was done quickly, it could be well over a decade to figure out how to apply some of the sciences to a space station of that magnitude.

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Such a great example of a climaxing elevating an otherwise flawed film. 

Wow the audience in the end and they will forgive the film for its warts. They sure did fucking wow me.  I've seen the movie twice now and the last fifteen minutes is like a shot of adrenaline.

 

I can only hope that Disney raises the bar with each new film. 

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I thought it was pretty awesome. The characters were more real than Force Awakens and the humor was much more natural and well placed. I couldn't stand the goofy Bad Boys style humor of Finn and Poe in Force Awakens. I thought the pacing of the movie was great and I was hooked right from the opening scene. I did read Catalyst though so that helped I'm sure as I was fully invested in Galen and Lyra to begin with and understood the immediate dynamic between Krennic and Galen. The final scene was nothing short of badass. The terror displayed on screen was pretty epic. I'll have to wait and see how it holds up but this was definitely a more adult Star Wars movie. It was gritty and had a sense of desperation to it. For the first time you really get to see why the Empire is evil and who and what the Rebel alliance really is.  I'd rank the films in this order I think:

1. Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Rogue One
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Force Awakens
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Attack of the Clones

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On 12/16/2016 at 3:20 AM, RussTCB said:

Totally agree with all your comments, especially regarding some of the more corny dialogue. I was turned off a hair at first, but then thought the same thing you did: what would a SW film be without at least some of that.

Again, I agree with pretty much everything else you said but here's some thoughts:

  Hide contents

Vader: YAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS at the bit near the end. My man was like "Sith Lord in the house. Y'all 'bout to get it". It's exactly the scene we've been waiting for involving this bad ass. The only area of concern I had was the pun earlier in the movie. "...choke on your..." I know this could fall under the cheesy dialog thing, but Vader shouldn't be doing cheesy dialog IMO. Not a huge gripe but it did bother me a little.

Couldn't agree more on K2 & the fan service.

Space battle at the end was excellent on many levels. It gives a whole new aspect to look at ANH with if you ask me. You really get an idea of what these people are dealing with and what they're fighting for because of the way this movie ends.

I was wondering if that was Mustafar as well and I'm thinking it is because, like you said, it's the only planet they don't indentify.

Last point I want to discuss with you: Tarkin. What did you think? I thought he little a little off here and there, but then my wife had no idea he was CG so it could be just me being picky. Your thoughts?

 

Spoiler

I have to disagree about the "be careful not to choke on your ambition" line from Vader. It was clever, not cheesy and it fit perfectly with who Vader is AND with who Krennic is(overly ambitious to a fault) Remember in Empire when Vader says "Apology accepted Captain Needa" as he chokes the guy to death? So yes Vader has been known to make so called "cheesy" comments that are terrifying. "I find your lack of faith disturbing". I saw it more as a badass line where he was warning Krennic. Point made by Vader I would think.  

The fan service was perfect I thought. I liked how the nods to A New Hope just felt completely natural and not forced. Seeing the fighter pilots from New Hope at the end in the space battle was cool as fuck. 

The planet where Vader is, is Mustafar. They probably didn't wanna say what it was because had they done so we'd immediately know that was Vader's castle. By not showing that it was Mustafar it just held off on the Vader reveal that much longer. PLus we already know Mustafar so really no need to identify it. That's my take on it anyways. 

As for Tarkin I think they did a great job. I actually didn't know it was full on CGI. I thought it was some sort of combination with an actor and CGI. I think they did it really well and they needed him in the movie. The dynamic between him and Krennic was awesome. 

So do we have to use spoiler tags in this thread or is the fact *SPOILERS* is in the thread title good enough?

Edited by Bono
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1 hour ago, Bono said:
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I have to disagree about the "be careful not to choke on your ambition" line from Vader. It was clever, not cheesy and it fit perfectly with who Vader is AND with who Krennic is(overly ambitious to a fault) Remember in Empire when Vader says "Apology accepted Captain Needa" as he chokes the guy to death? So yes Vader has been known to make so called "cheesy" comments that are terrifying. "I find your lack of faith disturbing". I saw it more as a badass line where he was warning Krennic. Point made by Vader I would think.  

The fan service was perfect I thought. I liked how the nods to A New Hope just felt completely natural and not forced. Seeing the fighter pilots from New Hope at the end in the space battle was cool as fuck. 

The planet where Vader is, is Mustafar. They probably didn't wanna say what it was because had they done so we'd immediately know that was Vader's castle. By not showing that it was Mustafar it just held off on the Vader reveal that much longer. PLus we already know Mustafar so really no need to identify it. That's my take on it anyways. 

As for Tarkin I think they did a great job. I actually didn't know it was full on CGI. I thought it was some sort of combination with an actor and CGI. I think they did it really well and they needed him in the movie. The dynamic between him and Krennic was awesome. 

So do we have to use spoiler tags in this thread or is the fact *SPOILERS* is in the thread title good enough?

I'd say everyone is free to post w/o the tags.

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I cried during the end. Their backstories are not that strong yet I still cried. Maybe because how great their sacrifice are.

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4 hours ago, Bono said:
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I have to disagree about the "be careful not to choke on your ambition" line from Vader. It was clever, not cheesy and it fit perfectly with who Vader is AND with who Krennic is(overly ambitious to a fault) Remember in Empire when Vader says "Apology accepted Captain Needa" as he chokes the guy to death? So yes Vader has been known to make so called "cheesy" comments that are terrifying. "I find your lack of faith disturbing". I saw it more as a badass line where he was warning Krennic. Point made by Vader I would think.  

The fan service was perfect I thought. I liked how the nods to A New Hope just felt completely natural and not forced. Seeing the fighter pilots from New Hope at the end in the space battle was cool as fuck. 

The planet where Vader is, is Mustafar. They probably didn't wanna say what it was because had they done so we'd immediately know that was Vader's castle. By not showing that it was Mustafar it just held off on the Vader reveal that much longer. PLus we already know Mustafar so really no need to identify it. That's my take on it anyways. 

As for Tarkin I think they did a great job. I actually didn't know it was full on CGI. I thought it was some sort of combination with an actor and CGI. I think they did it really well and they needed him in the movie. The dynamic between him and Krennic was awesome. 

So do we have to use spoiler tags in this thread or is the fact *SPOILERS* is in the thread title good enough?

I get what you're saying about us already knowing Mustafar, but at the same time, they gave us an info card for Yavin IV, and way more people seeing Rogue One would be more familiar with Yavin IV than Mustafar. 

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2 hours ago, Powerage5 said:

I get what you're saying about us already knowing Mustafar, but at the same time, they gave us an info card for Yavin IV, and way more people seeing Rogue One would be more familiar with Yavin IV than Mustafar. 

This one is something that it is a head scratcher for me. Why Mustafar of all places? I mean the guy didn't exactly had a the time of his life last time around when he was there. It is (for lack of a better word) kind of masochistic from his part

Edited by Padme

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3 minutes ago, Padme said:

This one is something that it is a head scratcher for me. Why Mustafar of all places? I mean the guy didn't exactly had a the time of his life last time around when he was there. It is (for lack of a better word) kind of masochistic from his part

Mustafar is menacing as fuck. Definitely fits the Vader persona, even if he had a bad time on his first visit.

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SPOILER***

That "Death Star" they were building will be blown up in a later episode of the movie.. *inside sources*

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So after much consideration, I think that The Force Awakens was a much better film than Rogue One.

Here are the things I liked in Rogue One:

Great visuals

Great action

Great work with the new score

I liked the new droid a whole lot

 

Here is my HUGE hangup with the film:

None of the NEW characters or new ideas were interesting. I mean this whole story is something we knew the ending to already. We didn't need this film, its not covering new ground, its just filling in a blank. So really the only way that it would go abive and beyond the gravity of its own restrictions is by having excellent characters, motivations, and emotional connections. The film had pretty mediocre characters, most of whom I found it hard to give a shit about. Cassian and Jyn were "okay" but they never really established a believable connection between the two of them.

Even with Jyn and her father, we only get one scene of them interacting before he dies. We never see him teach her anything valuable, or share any wisdom,  or show us that he's a good person. We are just told that he is, because he is sabotaging the Death Star. That's fine and all but if the writers wanted to elevate the emotional impact of his death, we should have had some flashbacks or something showing us that he is the kind of person who believes in freedom and is anti-empire, rather than just being "told" he is.

A perfect example of the lack of emotional substance was when Forrest Whitaker is in the Temple and everyone is fleeing the Death Star explosion, and he's like "Im not running anymore". First of all, what? Why not? And second, if that was supposed to have an emotional impact on Jyn, it didn't. Everything we know about theit relationship is said in exposition just minutes before he chooses to die for no reason at all. So yeah, sorry Whitaker but who gives a fuck?

 

It was two hours of Star Wars things that we've already seen, X Wings, Stormtroopers, Vader, Tarkin, AT-AT's, familiar rebel ships, etc etc. Which is fine, the action and visuals saved the film for me, but unfortunately none of this cast was anywhere near as memorable as Finn, Rey, Poe, and BB-8.

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In fact Forest Whitaker's character is so stupid, I am going to fix him with two paragraphs. I am not a screen writer.

 

Add a flashback scene: Jyn is being raised by Forest Whitaker. They are having a good time, doing whatever Star Wars people do on their down time. A problem arises where Jyn needs to make a sacrifice in order to find a solution, but she is struggling. So Forest Whitaker is like: "Sometimes, you have to make a sacrifice for the greater good" or whatever. Doesn't have to be profound or anything. 

Back to the temple. The Death Star blast is closing in. Jyn, Whitaker, and everyone else get on the ship to flee. The ship stalls. Oh my god, (whatever scifi spaceship part) is broken and can only be fixed from outside! Whitaker goes out to fix it. Jyn cries. He looks back and he says: "Sometimes you have to make a sacrifice, for the greater good." Boom. Emotional motivation and payoff.

Then at the end, when she and Cassian are huddled on the beach watching the Death Star blast coming closer, we cut back to the flashback of him saying "Sometimes you have to sacrifice yourself for the greater good". 

 

As cheesy as that is, its better than what happened with Forest Whitaker in the actual film

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50 minutes ago, Dan H. said:

So after much consideration, I think that The Force Awakens was a much better film than Rogue One.

Here are the things I liked in Rogue One:

Great visuals

Great action

Great work with the new score

I liked the new droid a whole lot

 

Here is my HUGE hangup with the film:

None of the NEW characters or new ideas were interesting. I mean this whole story is something we knew the ending to already. We didn't need this film, its not covering new ground, its just filling in a blank. So really the only way that it would go abive and beyond the gravity of its own restrictions is by having excellent characters, motivations, and emotional connections. The film had pretty mediocre characters, most of whom I found it hard to give a shit about. Cassian and Jyn were "okay" but they never really established a believable connection between the two of them.

Even with Jyn and her father, we only get one scene of them interacting before he dies. We never see him teach her anything valuable, or share any wisdom,  or show us that he's a good person. We are just told that he is, because he is sabotaging the Death Star. That's fine and all but if the writers wanted to elevate the emotional impact of his death, we should have had some flashbacks or something showing us that he is the kind of person who believes in freedom and is anti-empire, rather than just being "told" he is.

A perfect example of the lack of emotional substance was when Forrest Whitaker is in the Temple and everyone is fleeing the Death Star explosion, and he's like "Im not running anymore". First of all, what? Why not? And second, if that was supposed to have an emotional impact on Jyn, it didn't. Everything we know about theit relationship is said in exposition just minutes before he chooses to die for no reason at all. So yeah, sorry Whitaker but who gives a fuck?

 

It was two hours of Star Wars things that we've already seen, X Wings, Stormtroopers, Vader, Tarkin, AT-AT's, familiar rebel ships, etc etc. Which is fine, the action and visuals saved the film for me, but unfortunately none of this cast was anywhere near as memorable as Finn, Rey, Poe, and BB-8.

I can't agree with anything you said. Force Awakens is NOT a much better film let alone even better. It's simply a complete rehash of the original although a fun rehash. The humor is campy and forced as well. Rogue One isn't needed as a story as it's basically the opening crawl for a New Hope but it's a badass movie. 

As for Galen well you can't make it a 4 hour movie. If you want the emotional connection to Galen and Lyra you'll have to read the book Catalyst. Sorry but that's just how it is. Our emotional connection in this was to be with the little band of rebels and yes their backstories aren't that fleshed out but the didn't need to be. Their sacrifice is what adds to the high stakes. 

As for Saw Gerrera(Forrest Whitaker) if you want an emotional connection to him you have to watch the animated series Rebels. Again they can't have this be a four hour movie with extensive back stories to each character. Hell I've never even seen an episode of Rebels and I knew who he was. You don't need a whole flash back scene. You a have the scene where he rescues her and that's enough. 

To counter your points about lack of emotional connection to those characters how did you feel when K-2SO died? He's a robot and only in this one movie and I bet you felt an emotional connection to that. 

The cast isn't meant to be as memorable as the cast in Force Awakens. We're only with these people for one movie. And you can't actually tell us we've seen THAT Vader before. Are you seriously let down by Vader because you've "seen him before". K-2SO is most definitely memorable, Jyn is memorable, Orson Krennic is memorable. And of course we've seen AT-ATs and X-Wings and Tarkin and all that before. This movie literally ends minutes before a New Hope begins so I'm not sure what you were expecting. It couldn't be a new story because it was the opening crawl of  a New Hope. I feel like you're let down because you didn't get a completely new story(yet are praising Force Awakens as a much better film,... irony there) and a whole bunch of new things that would actually ruin the continuity of the story line. I almost feel as if you went into this not knowing where Rouge One takes place or what the objective of the movie was. It was literally a movie to tell the story of how the Rebels got the plans to the original Death Star. Based on that alone it's completely unreasonable to have expected something entirely new with a whole bunch of things we've never seen before. I feel like what you're saying would be equivalent to someone going to see Titanic and then complaining that they knew the ship was going to sink. 
 

2 hours ago, Padme said:

This one is something that it is a head scratcher for me. Why Mustafar of all places? I mean the guy didn't exactly had a the time of his life last time around when he was there. It is (for lack of a better word) kind of masochistic from his part

Mustafar is basically the birth place of Vader. It's his "home" so to speak. 

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1 hour ago, gunsguy said:

SPOILER***

That "Death Star" they were building will be blown up in a later episode of the movie.. *inside sources*

The Death Star was an inside job. Proton torpedoes can't melt steel beams in outer space. 

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8 minutes ago, Bono said:

I can't agree with anything you said. Force Awakens is NOT a much better film let alone even better. It's simply a complete rehash of the original although a fun rehash. The humor is campy and forced as well. Rogue One isn't needed as a story as it's basically the opening crawl for a New Hope but it's a badass movie. 

As for Galen well you can't make it a 4 hour movie. If you want the emotional connection to Galen and Lyra you'll have to read the book Catalyst. Sorry but that's just how it is. Our emotional connection in this was to be with the little band of rebels and yes their backstories aren't that fleshed out but the didn't need to be. Their sacrifice is what adds to the high stakes. 

As for Saw Gerrera(Forrest Whitaker) if you want an emotional connection to him you have to watch the animated series Rebels. Again they can't have this be a four hour movie with extensive back stories to each character. Hell I've never even seen an episode of Rebels and I knew who he was. You don't need a whole flash back scene. You a have the scene where he rescues her and that's enough. 

To counter your points about lack of emotional connection to those characters how did you feel when K-2SO died? He's a robot and only in this one movie and I bet you felt an emotional connection to that. 

The cast isn't meant to be as memorable as the cast in Force Awakens. We're only with these people for one movie. And you can't actually tell us we've seen THAT Vader before. Are you seriously let down by Vader because you've "seen him before". K-2SO is most definitely memorable, Jyn is memorable, Orson Krennic is memorable. And of course we've seen AT-ATs and X-Wings and Tarkin and all that before. This movie literally ends minutes before a New Hope begins so I'm not sure what you were expecting. It couldn't be a new story because it was the opening crawl of  a New Hope. I feel like you're let down because you didn't get a completely new story(yet are praising Force Awakens as a much better film,... irony there) and a whole bunch of new things that would actually ruin the continuity of the story line. I almost feel as if you went into this not knowing where Rouge One takes place or what the objective of the movie was. It was literally a movie to tell the story of how the Rebels got the plans to the original Death Star. Based on that alone it's completely unreasonable to have expected something entirely new with a whole bunch of things we've never seen before. I feel like what you're saying would be equivalent to someone going to see Titanic and then complaining that they knew the ship was going to sink. 
 

I think you misunderstood. I don't care about a new story. No story is new. TFA is a rehash of A New Hope, but every Star Wars movie is pretty basic and formulaic anyways.

Personally, I think Rey, Finn, Poe, and BB-8 are all way more memorable, charismatic, interesting, and likeable than any of the characters here.

Your point about the sacrifice being the core foundation of the film is flawed. Their sacrifice is meaningless if we don't know what they're sacrificing. We don't know a single thing who Jyn is, what she wants, and what her life is like. We know all of those things about Luke in the OT, and Rey in TFA.

As far as Forest Whitaker goes, if I have to watch a whole different medium just to understand the emotional impact he should have on the audience, then that's just lazy writing. The film should live on its own story and structure, and not lean and rely on backstory buried in a cartoon.

I enjoyed all of the call backs to A New Hope. Tarkin, Vadar, AT-ATs. Thought that was the strongest stuff in the film. Which is kinda sad, because the film should have taken on a life of its own, and none of the new characters did. Doesn't matter if they were only gonna be in this one movie. Plenty of one off movies are able to make compelling characters.

Bono, I think you must have missed the "which is fine" part of my statement above regarding it being a film with an ending we know. I was fine with it being a film about the Death Star plans. I was less fine that the filmmakers didn't make interesting or compelling characters.

The Force Awakens isn't super original as we all know, but it is really engaging, and works better as a film than Rogue One, in my opinion. I cared more about the characters and their journey than I did in Rogue one.

All I'm sayin is that Rogue One is propped up by classic star wars imagery and nothing else (which is fine, but not great) whereas The Force Awakens is propped up by the loose structure of A New Hope, but the characters, writing, and pacing elevate it beyond its source of inspiration, and to me it stands just fine on its own. 

 

Daisey Ridley as Rey is ten times the character of Felicity Jones' Jyn

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I didn't hate the film btw. Just giving it a fair analysis. I'd give it a 'C' to The Force Awakens B+ (tied with Jedi for me).

I just think on second viewing, Rogue One had noticeably more writing and character flaws than The Force Awakens. 

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9 minutes ago, Dan H. said:

I think you misunderstood. I don't care about a new story. No story is new. TFA is a rehash of A New Hope, but every Star Wars movie is pretty basic and formulaic anyways.

Personally, I think Rey, Finn, Poe, and BB-8 are all way more memorable, charismatic, interesting, and likeable than any of the characters here.

Your point about the sacrifice being the core foundation of the film is flawed. Their sacrifice is meaningless if we don't know what they're sacrificing. We don't know a single thing who Jyn is, what she wants, and what her life is like. We know all of those things about Luke in the OT, and Rey in TFA.

As far as Forest Whitaker goes, if I have to watch a whole different medium just to understand the emotional impact he should have on the audience, then that's just lazy writing. The film should live on its own story and structure, and not lean and rely on backstory buried in a cartoon.

I enjoyed all of the call backs to A New Hope. Tarkin, Vadar, AT-ATs. Thought that was the strongest stuff in the film. Which is kinda sad, because the film should have taken on a life of its own, and none of the new characters did. Doesn't matter if they were only gonna be in this one movie. Plenty of one off movies are able to make compelling characters.

Bono, I think you must have missed the "which is fine" part of my statement above regarding it being a film with an ending we know. I was fine with it being a film about the Death Star plans. I was less fine that the filmmakers didn't make interesting or compelling characters.

The Force Awakens isn't super original as we all know, but it is really engaging, and works better as a film than Rogue One, in my opinion. I cared more about the characters and their journey than I did in Rogue one.

All I'm sayin is that Rogue One is propped up by classic star wars imagery and nothing else (which is fine, but not great) whereas The Force Awakens is propped up by the loose structure of A New Hope, but the characters, writing, and pacing elevate it beyond its source of inspiration, and to me it stands just fine on its own. 

 

Daisey Ridley as Rey is ten times the character of Felicity Jones' Jyn

Their sacrifice is meaningless if we don't know what their sacrifice is? Ummm... so sacrificing their lives in order to save the Galaxy from the tyranny of the Empire wasn't conveyed? 

As for Forrest Whittaker and any other character going forward man get used to it. They are expanding the cinematic universe and they will be taking and adding from side stories through tv and books along the way. Star Wars movies from here on out will always be enhanced if you know more of the universe and sorry they are not gonna take the time to flesh it out in minute detail in the movies. The movie doesn't rely on the back stories of cartoons but knowing that stuff will obviously enhance you opinion of the movie. If you ddn't get the otional connection that's fine. I went with 4 other people last night who don't know any of the back stories and they al thought it was awesome so.... to each their own. You couldn't get the connection, most will. 

I found the characters in Rogue One compelling. Finn not compelling, Poe cheesy, BB-8 was great but so was K-2SO, Jyn was good for what she was her character is as fleshed out or even more so than Rey's was. We know NOTHING about Rey but we know quite a bit about Jyn. Cassian was cool, the dynamic between Baze and Chirrut was pretty cool, almost like a Han and Chewie vibe. 

Disagree 100% about Rogue One being propped up by imagery. That's utter nonsense. It's not a Transformers movie man. The story was a much stronger story than Force Awakens and it allowed us to see the Rebel Alliance in a  way we've never seen them before and it also showed us why the Empire is so evil rather than just a government people seem to not like. It's laughable to say Force Awakens is propped up by "the loose structure of a New Hope" because it's basically the exact same story. Exactly the same. Haveing said that I really liked Force Awakens but I have some serious issues and annoyances with it. I have almost no issues with Rogue One. It's in my opinion the 3rd best Star Wars movie so far. 

Clearly we see the movie in different ways. 

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Best part of the movie: when Darth Vader "enters" rebellion's ship and... show us the force.

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12 minutes ago, Bono said:

I found the characters in Rogue One compelling. Finn not compelling, Poe cheesy, BB-8 was great but so was K-2SO, Jyn was good for what she was her character is as fleshed out or even more so than Rey's was. We know NOTHING about Rey but we know quite a bit about Jyn. Cassian was cool, the dynamic between Baze and Chirrut was pretty cool, almost like a Han and Chewie vibe. 

I don't wanna go back and forth on every point we disagree with, but I wanna mention the Rey thing.

We know where Rey lives, what her job is, what her life is like, what she wants (waiting for someone), how she feels (lonely), and that she has a kind nature, taking in BB-8 and helping Finn escape Jakku. We even know halfway through that she still is compelled to return to Jakku. She has no interest in being a Jedi, or using the Force at first.

Jyn had a dad. We know more about her dad than her.

She was raised by Forest Whitaker then abandoned. That's it.

And we know she was in jail, but we don't know why or what for.

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Also I really liked K2S0, but did anyone else feel like he was a bit ripped off from this guy:

87f40ba43f5ef1f31e14b5622eb2fa76.jpg

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