Lim666 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Vocally speaking Axl was at his best in 1999.sorry, you totally lost it there.How so?Have you listened to the 3 1999 demos, Live Era and Big Daddy SCOM?His rasp (I hate that word) was powerful and his cleans had an amazing delicacy to them that he hasn't been able to replicate since.followed GN'R since 1989 and know about Axl's voice issues pretty well.the SCOM/Big Daddy is (not only) vocally WEAK and nothing compared to his best UYI times. i've been working on a LIVE ERA-project where you can watch SCOM/Paris92 and switch the audio from Paris92 live to Live Era....and it's really disappointing how weak it is compared to the live show. IMO Axl's voice peaked in 4/1992, exspecially for his strong rasp (check FM92, Chicago92, Oklahoma92) but he had lots of good shows before and after, too.the 3x 1999 demos have about 95% the same vocal tracks/recordings than the ones being released on CD, right? i do like parts of them but his voice simply sound weaker, not strong enough. might be an aging process, lack of rehearsing, intention or even a mix of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broskirose Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Axl sounded pretty shit in 92. 93 was tight though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yes because those gigs in 1999 were great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broskirose Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 There were no gigs in 1999. How that has any relevancy to comparing 1992 to 1993, I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 There were no gigs in 1999. How that has any relevancy to comparing 1992 to 1993, I'm not sure.I was replying to the notion that, 1999 saw Axl in his greatest voice. It is clearly a absurd proposition considering we only have one soundtrack song and four-five demos to base it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broskirose Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Make that 2 soundtrack songs, a studio album full of vocals from that period, a live album full of re-recorded vocals, a leaked clip and the demos.There is more than enough vocal work from that period to make a judgment about it. Not to mention the fact that the entire point is that I want to hear more from that year, hence the reason why I want to hear the re-recorded AFD. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 There is more than enough vocal work from that period to make a judgment about it. I do not agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foghat43 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Make that 2 soundtrack songs, a studio album full of vocals from that period, a live album full of re-recorded vocals, a leaked clip and the demos.There is more than enough vocal work from that period to make a judgment about it. Not to mention the fact that the entire point is that I want to hear more from that year, hence the reason why I want to hear the re-recorded AFD.So you think Axl's voice from '99 (e.g. the vocal dubs on Live Era) is better than Axl's voice during the AFD era? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broskirose Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Make that 2 soundtrack songs, a studio album full of vocals from that period, a live album full of re-recorded vocals, a leaked clip and the demos.There is more than enough vocal work from that period to make a judgment about it. Not to mention the fact that the entire point is that I want to hear more from that year, hence the reason why I want to hear the re-recorded AFD.So you think Axl's voice from '99 (e.g. the vocal dubs on Live Era) is better than Axl's voice during the AFD era? Yes. No contest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foghat43 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Make that 2 soundtrack songs, a studio album full of vocals from that period, a live album full of re-recorded vocals, a leaked clip and the demos.There is more than enough vocal work from that period to make a judgment about it. Not to mention the fact that the entire point is that I want to hear more from that year, hence the reason why I want to hear the re-recorded AFD.So you think Axl's voice from '99 (e.g. the vocal dubs on Live Era) is better than Axl's voice during the AFD era? Yes. No contest.Well, there's no contest in your mind anyway...personally I find the Live Era dubs inferior...but to each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 It is not possible however to be certifiable just, what was original and, what was re-recorded, on Live Era? The album is awash in Protools and is consequentially, not a good barometer on judging Axl’s voice from 1999. In my opinion, the only true way to judge a voice is from the gigs (and subsequent bootlegs) as, studio vocals can be compiled from multiple takes recorded under labrotory-like conditions; also, studio vocals can be studio manipulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foghat43 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 But we are discussing a studio album (AFD). And if AFD was re-recorded then Axl would have had all the benefits of studio enhancements to his voice. So I think it is reasonable to compare Axl's "studio" voice on AFD to his "studio" voice from '99 (Live Era dubs). Why would we compare Axl's studio vocals from AFD to a bootleg of a live gig from '99 (if it existed)?I prefer Axl's earlier voice (AFD/Lies/UYI) to his later voice (Live Era/CD)...just my personal preference. Your other point is valid...I'm using wikipedia as a source for listening to vocal dubs on Live Era...I concede that wiki could be wrong:Singer Axl Rose dubbed his vocals over the original live recordings, in 12 out of the 22 tracks. That can be noted by comparing some of the album tracks with the original live performances in the DVD releases entitled Use Your Illusion I and Use Your Illusion II, existing prior to the album release. They are: "Nightrain" "Mr. Brownstone" "Welcome to the Jungle" "Used to Love Her" (after its 2nd half) "It's Alright" "November Rain" "Pretty Tied Up" "Move to the City" "You Could Be Mine (partly) "Rocket Queen" "Sweet Child o' Mine" "Estranged". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I never understood why they did that. It basically has no commercial value at all. Even if you would release it, it will never be able to match the classic status AFD has. No matter how good it might have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynard Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I never understood why they did that. It basically has no commercial value at all. Even if you would release it, it will never be able to match the classic status AFD has. No matter how good it might have been.Just Axl being Axl... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmapelian Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 It is not possible however to be certifiable just, what was original and, what was re-recorded, on Live Era? The album is awash in Protools and is consequentially, not a good barometer on judging Axl’s voice from 1999. In my opinion, the only true way to judge a voice is from the gigs (and subsequent bootlegs) as, studio vocals can be compiled from multiple takes recorded under labrotory-like conditions; also, studio vocals can be studio manipulated.I read somewhere pretty much all the vocals on Live Era were re-done in the studio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lim666 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 there are good topics about exact LIVE ERA re-recordings from Axl's voice. too lazy to search but they're here somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeaxl Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The live era nightrain vocals are absolutely shit hot. The dogs dangly bitsThe flying like an aeroplane, feeling like a space brain one more time tonight line at the end sounds mean as fuckJungle not so much but nightrain. He'll yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman2000 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Vocally speaking Axl was at his best in 1999.sorry, you totally lost it there.How so?Have you listened to the 3 1999 demos, Live Era and Big Daddy SCOM?His rasp (I hate that word) was powerful and his cleans had an amazing delicacy to them that he hasn't been able to replicate since.followed GN'R since 1989 and know about Axl's voice issues pretty well.the SCOM/Big Daddy is (not only) vocally WEAK and nothing compared to his best UYI times. i've been working on a LIVE ERA-project where you can watch SCOM/Paris92 and switch the audio from Paris92 live to Live Era....and it's really disappointing how weak it is compared to the live show. IMO Axl's voice peaked in 4/1992, exspecially for his strong rasp (check FM92, Chicago92, Oklahoma92) but he had lots of good shows before and after, too.the 3x 1999 demos have about 95% the same vocal tracks/recordings than the ones being released on CD, right? i do like parts of them but his voice simply sound weaker, not strong enough. might be an aging process, lack of rehearsing, intention or even a mix of those.I'm with ya. He sounded SO much better back in the day. His vocals were forced imo in the 1999 Live Era overdubs. The demos we have sound good, and i'm not contesting that. Just the live era overdubs.Make that 2 soundtrack songs, a studio album full of vocals from that period, a live album full of re-recorded vocals, a leaked clip and the demos.There is more than enough vocal work from that period to make a judgment about it. Not to mention the fact that the entire point is that I want to hear more from that year, hence the reason why I want to hear the re-recorded AFD.So you think Axl's voice from '99 (e.g. the vocal dubs on Live Era) is better than Axl's voice during the AFD era? Yes. No contest.Well, there's no contest in your mind anyway...personally I find the Live Era dubs inferior...but to each his own. Agreed with that. I'm not one of these people that love slash either, in fact I really don't like him. But Axl's overdubs on Life Era give it a more... shall I say fake feel? You could tell something wasn't right. First time I heard it (not even a big fan at the time) I thought something wasn't right. I knew how Axl sounded, and that definitely wasn't it. He didn't need over dubs, most of the recordings I'm sure were fine w/ a few minor touch ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Axl should have realized in the early 90s that they were going to have to put a live album at some point, and at some of the shows, just stood still when doing some of the songs. Maybe he moves around in the studio, but someone who does as many takes as he does, he probably moves around on some takes, stands still on others. It's a contract obligation that GNR had to fulfill, so they should have just planned ahead. People just like having a souvenir of a show they went to, and most fans would probably rather have a copy of the shows they were at, than something compiled. Fixing a live album in the studio should be minor fixes. I doubt Axl was the one who came up with the idea to screw Slash and Duff out of money by using the re-recordings. It's a bad idea for any artist to do it unless they go to another label and make it a completely new release and package. If he had owned the master tapes to AFD, I wouldn't have put it past him to do a Sharon Osbourne and remove all of Slash's guitar work on all of GNR's albums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Well here is the source information if anyone has the inclination to compare their bootlegs with the album...Disc 11. Nightrain [Las Vegas, 1.25.92]2. Mr. Brownstone [London, 8.31.91]3. It's So Easy [Paris, 6.6.92]4. Welcome To The Jungle5. Dust N' Bones [New York, 5.16.91]6. My Michelle [London, 8.31.91]7. You're Crazy [Tokyo, 12.10.88]8. Used To Love Her [Tokyo, 12.10.88]9. Patience [1st half: Paris, 7.13.93; 2nd half: Paris, 6.6.92]10. It's Alright [Houston, 9.4.92]11. November Rain [Tokyo, 2.22.92]12. Coma [Omaha, 4.10.93] * ^Disc 21. Out Ta Get Me [London, 6.28.87]2. Pretty Tied Up [Tokyo, 2.22.92]3. Yesterdays [Las Vegas, 1.25.92]4. Move To The City [Tokyo, 2.22.92]5. You Could Be Mine [Tokyo, 2.22.92]6. Rocket Queen [Las Vegas, 1.25.92]7. Sweet Child O' Mine [Paris, 6.6.92]8. Knockin' On Heaven's Door [London, 4.20.92]9. Don't Cry [Tokyo, 2.22.92]10. Estranged [Tokyo, 2.22.92]11. Paradise City [Las Vegas, 1.25.92]* Japanese & Vinyl Releases Only^ Not 100% certain the date is correcthttp://www.gnrontour.com/liveera.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Nightrain ,WTTJ, Estranged, November Rain, YCBM, SCOM and Rocket Queen are almost entirely rerecorded. Don't Cry is one of the few that seems to be left mostly untouched. Haven't listened to the others that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosaj Thing Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Axl sounded awful in 1999. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynard Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 People who say Axl voice's best year was 1999 is obviously trolling. Just because you HATE the old band, you don't need to discredit it so pathetically. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lim666 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 here is lots of detailed re-recorded vocals info from "Live Era":http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?showtopic=25930check post #5 there!!i think there was some even more detailed info somewhere but i cant find it right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foghat43 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I know a lot of bands do some limited studio overdubs on their "live" albums...but the amount of vocal overdubs that Axl did seem excessive. Doesn't it kinda defeat the purpose of it being a live album if half the vocals were done in the studio?According to wikipedia: Former guitarist Slash notes that the album (Live Era) is "not pretty and there are a lot of mistakes, but this is Guns N' Roses, not the fucking Mahavishnu Orchestra. It's as honest as it gets." Except for the vocals that is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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