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GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

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7 minutes ago, Frey said:

So, for anyone who's confused about this, this is in reference to the "New York Post article about guns" thread  (which should more accurately be titled "Yet another thread about Steven Adler sucking dick" or simply the "Guns n' Prostitution thread", since the discussion didn't just revolve around Steven). Go read it, if you wanna understand how this came about.

Anyway, people were asking for actual sources and links to back up the claims people made in this thread and I knew about at least one regarding Axl, but @killuridols asked me not to post it in the other thread because it's pretty gross, which I agree with, so I took it down here. This thread is a better place to discuss stuff like this anyway.

So for @Blackstar @Asia @Lumikki @killuridols and anyone else who was posting in the New York thread...

There you go (I put in under a spoiler tag, so anyone who doesn't wanna read some pretty nasty comments about Axl can avoid reading them):

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http://sleazeroxx.com/original-l-a-guns-vocalist-michael-jagosz-passes-away/

 

Original L.A. Guns vocalist Michael Jagosz passed away on March 9th at the age of 48.

Jagosz fronted L.A Guns during their formative years. The singer first performed with the band in 1983, eventually being replaced by Axl Rose while serving a week long sentence in the county jail after a bar fight. Jagosz would in turn replace Rose and together L.A Guns released a four song EP entitled ‘Collector’s Edition No. 1’ in 1985 containing the songs “Don’t Love Me”, “When Dreams Don’t Follow Through”, “It’s Not True”, and “Something Heavy” — the tracks would eventually resurface as a bonus disc on the 2004 release ‘Hollywood Raw: The Original Sessions’.

No details have emerged about the cause of death, but the final post on Jagosz’ Facebook page is the cryptic “I’m drowning.”

L.A. Guns founder Tracii Guns remembered Jagosz fondly by saying, “the last time I hung out with Mike Jagosz was a few years ago at The Venice Beach Music Fest and we had a lot of laughs that day and that’s how I will remember him with that giant smile! I hope peace and Mike have found each other. We recorded the first L.A. Guns EP together at 18 years old which both of our first real studio experience. He is also the first singer I ever wrote and performed with. I always wished he could find a great metal band to front and why that didn’t happen is beyond my scope of understanding. He was very influenced by UFO , Dio and Ian Gillan. He had the killer metal pipes!” Sylent Storm member Jym Harris also confirmed the death. “We had our ‘differences’ over the years but last time I talked to him (on February 28th) he was determined to make good with me about everything. I had no idea he was dying. Makes sense now. RIP my friend, you will be missed.”

In a 2011 interview with the Proud2BeLoud blog Jagosz lashed out at Axl Rose. “To tell you the Jesus Christ truth… William Bailey was only in the group for two fuckin weeks. I tried to give him vocal lessons… but, he sucked. Voted “least likely to ever make it”. He always was a pathetic sub-human being. He lived at my parent’s house for over six months… sponging off us and doing heroin. What a little fag*ot. Come to find out, he was a male-fag*ot prostitute at the time — L-O-S-E-R. He sold his asshole to gay men for money. But, he made 70 million. He was a real piece of work, he was/is a parasite. A real sack of shit.”

In the same interview Jagosz had kinder words for former bandmate Tracii Guns. “Tracii tried to save me from getting arrested. I was drunk, wanting to drive… he hid my keys. I was actually out of the group just after doing the EP. Tracii Guns was a true brother. Gotta love him. Successor to Randy’s throne.” When asked what he thought of the direction L.A Guns would eventually take Jagosz continued, “Hated it at first. We were metal, the 3-bar chord shit killed me. I thought Tracii was wayyyyyyyyy too talented to do that shit. Looking back though, he went commercial to sell. God bless Tracii, he saw what we couldn’t.”

Jagosz, born on December 13, 1965, is survived by his mother Rosa Caceres Jagosz, son Michael Jeffrey Jagosz and brother David Jagosz. A private memorial is planned for April 1, 2014.

It's worse than I remembered actually :confused:

Thoughts?

Obviously, the guy seems like a complete douchebag. I mean... "Male-fag*ot prostitute"? "Pathetic sub-human"? Really?! :facepalm:

Usually, I wouldn't take anyone who talks like that seriously anyway, but I just can't figure out why he hates Axl so much. It's not like Axl stole his place in L.A. Guns and then went on to become super successfull with them.

Is he just jealous because Axl made it big and he didn't? Or still mad about the time Axl lived with his family? It's strange to me that the guy could still be so bitter about Axl "sponging off of his family for six months" about three decades later (and why didn't they just kick him out if they didn't like having him around?).

Is he actually telling the truth or did he just try to come up with the most damaging thing he could say about another man in his mind (i.e. letting yourself get fucked by other guys for money)?

For what it's worth, @killuridols says she knows of another guy who knew Axl back then who apparently made the same claims about him. I don't know the details about that one though, maybe she can tell us if they match up with what Mr. Jagosz was claiming here.

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds like the man held a bit of a jealous streak because Axl seemed to do what he couldn't. Whether or not Axl had to go to such lengths to survive is no one's business but his own. Sometimes people have to do shady things to make it.

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Jealous is putting it mildly. He sounds pretty damn vicious and pissed off to me, for whatever reasons.

That said, I've talked about this to @killuridols and @Andy14 before and I'm not completely disregarding what he's saying. Especially since there is another guy who had a similar story to tell about Axl.

Reading the other thread I got the impression that some people can't picture Axl doing this kind of thing, probably because of the rather homophobic attitude he used to display back in the day.

But as @Blackstar pointed out in the other thread, something like this might even be the reason (or part of the reason) for his behavior.

IF what Michael Jagosz and Guy #2 are saying is true, then Axl probably felt pretty insecure and embarrassed about it (maybe he was even terrified of the whole thing coming to light once he started to become famous), so he might have tried to act even more macho-manly-aggressive and "pro-heterosexual" (as he once called it) to compensate for that.

In that case, poor cupcake. Where's the blankets and the soup?

 

5 hours ago, dgnr said:

Just want to give a shout out to the European tour, can't believe it's over :cry: It was awesome, wasn't it?! I felt that these shows were different, it felt like I went to more than one show cause at almost every show we had a women's thread representative, who after wrote amazing reviews - not like the regular show reviews but something customized to the thread. I loved that. And I loved that some of you got to met the guys and told us everything afterwards :wub:

Anyway, it was great, I'm sad it's over. As someone said previously, Europe is good to Axl - he leaved his room to take pics with fans ffs - so Axl, if you're not thinking to move your ass to our little land for good, come back next year :hug:
 

That gif...He totally considered it for a awhile :ph34r:

Beautifully said. :heart:

And yes, he totally considered it :ph34r: It's just his damn sickness that got in the way :max:

(Or so I keep telling myself... :P)

17 hours ago, purplestargirl said:

I also keep reading that Grace is Duff's Mini-Me while Mae is Susan's but I honestly think Mae looks more like her father than Grace does. I see more of Susan in Grace than I do Duff. 

And baby Duff :wub: :wub: ......I have such a crush on him. Not my fault the blond giraffe is full of hotness. His eyes are intimidating though. If I ever meet the man in person, I don't think I could look him straight in the eyes because they scare me. Just thinking about it makes me uncomfortable.

Grace and Duff look very similar in some of their childhood pictures. That said, I can see both of their parents in each of them.

And I always thought his eyes looked warm and kind for the most part lol.

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Now onto figuring out how we're gonna :ph34r: on that special guests-only show next Thursday :popcorn:

I'm trying not to get my hopes up for that, I'm pretty sure it will be another disappointment for all those who do so and the subsequent whining will be enormous :facepalm:

 

 

 

 

Edited by Lumikki
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38 minutes ago, KiraMPD said:

Now, I won't outright dismiss the notion that Axl (and some of the others) might have sold themselves for quick cash. It's really not that shocking or far-fetched of a thought considering the time and place. Honestly, it's been so long since I accepted that as a possibility that the reaction at the thread on D/N seems unnecessarily OTT. Regardless, to prove it as a solid fact there needs to be better accounts from people that don't sound like they have a personal axe to grind. And considering the company they kept (stripper and dealers) and living hand to mouth with little to no privacy, I am mildly perplexed that more accounts such as these haven't come forward since they became famous.

This 100% agree. 

The reviews of the ladies in this thread were amazing...thanks very much for sharing. Europe was a total success!

Now...this coming thursday:nervous:

Thanks to Gibbo from the Sirius thread we will be able to hear that Apollo thing

Edited by Georgina Arriaga

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30 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I still have GnR depression :( and now they have left Europe altogether :( Who knows if they will be back :( 

I haven't much interest in the American shows either.

Yes, after November 25, everything is up for grabs...and knowing that Axl will be in his seclude compound doing God's know what....for days and months...:facepalm:

I'm going to Miami show, I'm very excited!!

The arena's shows will be good

Edited by Georgina Arriaga
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15 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

 

I still have GnR depression :( and now they have left Europe altogether :( Who knows if they will be back :( 

 

I feel the same, it's like there's nothing to look forward to.

The Americans have the best times to look forward to with the Arena tour. I can't see us getting arenas, it's gonna have to be stadiums surely? Unless they do like 7 nights in England then 

a couple of nights for the Jocks n Paddies

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58 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

So....I can't believe the European tour is over :no:. It's been great almost 2 months :headbang:. I loved watching every single show with the anticipanion of mine.

Thank you all for being a part in it, either by watching and commenting or by going to the shows. The best reviews and pics appeared in this thread and helped creating the feeling as if we all had been there. So thanks @money honey, @Carlycosmos, @dgnr, @giuls, @Tori72, @MillionsOfSpiders, @janrichmond, @Alja, @domino, @EricA and @Natty (if I forgot somebody, please kick me with Axl's boot :nervous:) for sharing great memories with us. :headbang:

A huge thank you to @Lumikki, @Hejanne, @Sekh-met and @hair of the dog for enjoying the shows together. :wub: It was so much fun. Be it makng the banners (I hope Axl will remember it too), sniffing around their hotel or laughing our asses off. I enjoyed every second of it, both shows I attended far exceeded my expectations. I was injured, hungry, thirsty, tired, standing right in a rainstorm, everything hurt me, could hardly move afterwards but damn, it was so worth it, I'd do it all over again. I got all possible songs (except for Riff Raff) and Only Women Bleed as a nice bonus (yeah, Axl, I know you sang it only because I was actually bleeding at the Prague show :ph34r:).

Special thanks go to Axl and Slash, that I could meet them and exchange a few words and smiles with them. Omg, who would have thought it? :wow: You both were very nice and patient. :heart:

And a huge ass thank you to our princess @killuridols who navigated us through all the chasing and was a great support. Hope you can be proud of us now. :headbang::devilshades:

I already miss those times, but this can't be the end, right? :nervous:They have to come back soon. I know that Axl loves Europe (and we love him). Moreover, he still ows us a party and a pen, we won't forget :max:.

thank you @Andy14. it s always nice to read your comments and funny stuff/cartoons aso you create! 

It s really sad yes. I suppose we will have at least 1 - open end years waiting until they come back to Europe.

They should take a nice break like 6 to 9 months and if they still feel it please come back to us here in Europe. If US get a 2nd leg we I think we all have contributed so much while singing ,jumping, making banners ,having fun at the shows that we should be awarded with a 2nd leg as well.  But who knows what the guys have planned...

if stadiums or arenas: dont care. as long as they come back !!

The enourmous lack you leave here in Europe cannot be closed by any other band. we can of course go to other nice concerts and will continue our daily life but it s sad that this special time where GNR was here with us in Europe is over. Our favourite band has left us alone [whisper alone] 

:wacko:

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45 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I read about those Axl rumours before, they were discussed here as I recall. In fact I am pretty sure one of those guys came here to post about it and that is how I read about it. I remember one of the admins at the time shutting the thread down because this guy came across as a real looney.

Wow, really?

Never heard about this before.

So the guy came here and registered on this forum just to open a thread about Axl's hooker past?! :confused::scared: Or was he talking about other stuff as well?

And who was it? Jagosz or someone else?

 

1 hour ago, KiraMPD said:

Seriously?! He's talking about the guy that, according to Slash (iirc), was the most sought after front-man/vocalist at the time?

This, and the overall language he used, makes it really hard to take anything he said seriously. Dude just sounds bitter as fuck, which like you said is weird considering the fact that he's talking about someone he knew almost thirty years ago! What is it about Axl that makes people so angry that they can't let it go for decades? This kinda reminds me of the Alan Niven interview where he said, "genderwise [Axl] is an equal opportunity junkyard dog" and, "Who is Rocket Queen really?"

Now, I won't outright dismiss the notion that Axl (and some of the others) might have sold themselves for quick cash. It's really not that shocking or far-fetched of a thought considering the time and place. Honestly, it's been so long since I accepted that as a possibility that the reaction at the thread on D/N seems unnecessarily OTT. Regardless, to prove it as a solid fact there needs to be better accounts from people that don't sound like they have a personal axe to grind. And considering the company they kept (stripper and dealers) and living hand to mouth with little to no privacy, I am mildly perplexed that more accounts such as these haven't come forward since they became famous.

Yeah that part about Axl being a shitty singer made me snort as well. On the other hand, he didn't sound particularly impressive on these Rapidfire demos for example.

I'm unclear about the dates here anyway (I'm not good with dates to begin with and not as knowledgable about early GNR history as I probably should be considering how much time I waste on this forum lol) - when were these 6 months Axl supposedly lived with Michael Jagosz' parents and took heroin? I'm assuming the "two weeks" Axl sang for L.A. Guns must have been around the same time as he was living with Jagosz' parents. Or maybe shortly after or before.

The dates question is also relevant to this part of your comment - "And considering the company they kept (stripper and dealers) and living hand to mouth with little to no privacy, I am mildly perplexed that more accounts such as these haven't come forward since they became famous." - I think in Axl's early days in L.A. he wasn't really living with strippers and the other guys with no privacy, he was living with Izzy and Gina at times, and various people who would let him sleep on their couch/at their house, such as Slash's family, Chris Weber and Michael Jagosz' family apparently. It would have been much easier like that to engage in this kind of thing then later on when they were living cramped inside that garage/storage space for example.

About Alan Niven... are you suggesting Alan Niven might know about Axl selling himself to other dudes too? I always interpreted his comments as just him being a douchebag and trying to get some (rather dumb and ignorant) digs in at Axl based on his clothing choices. But now that you put it that way, it actually makes sense on whole different level, especially the "Who is the Rocket Queen really?" part :confused:

 

1 hour ago, Lumikki said:

Jealous is putting it mildly. He sounds pretty damn vicious and pissed off to me, for whatever reasons.

That said, I've talked about this to @killuridols and @Andy14 before and I'm not completely disregarding what he's saying. Especially since there is another guy who had a similar story to tell about Axl.

Reading the other thread I got the impression that some people can't picture Axl doing this kind of thing, probably because of the rather homophobic attitude he used to display back in the day.

But as @Blackstar pointed out in the other thread, something like this might even be the reason (or part of the reason) for his behavior.

IF what Michael Jagosz and Guy #2 are saying is true, then Axl probably felt pretty insecure and embarrassed about it (maybe he was even terrified of the whole thing coming to light once he started to become famous), so he might have tried to act even more macho-manly-aggressive and "pro-heterosexual" (as he once called it) to compensate for that.

In that case, poor cupcake. Where's the blankets and the soup?

Yes, I was thinking something along these lines too.

The inner sense of shame (especially considering his very conservative and religious upbringing) would already be hard to live with, the pressure and worry in the back of your head about someone telling this story to the tabloids or whatever and it all coming back to bite you in the ass and potentially ruining your career and reputation might be even harder to live with.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Frey

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@Frey I really can't remember very well, I  can't remember for sure who it was but I think it was probably the guy from LA Guns, because I remember GnR fans were hassling him over what he had said and he hit back at them. Either he posted here himself or the fans hassling him were getting his responses somewhere else and posting them here. 

I absolutely remember the exact words he used that were posted in that thread, he said "believe what you all want, the truth is Axl would open his asshole for anyone who would pay him." 

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I am going to their stadium show in San Antonio baby and I expect there to be a lot of Mexican-Americans and Mexicans there to bring the house down and make it hella loud!!!!!  ? :headbang:

Edited by marlingrl03
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34 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

I feel the same, it's like there's nothing to look forward to.

The Americans have the best times to look forward to with the Arena tour. I can't see us getting arenas, it's gonna have to be stadiums surely? Unless they do like 7 nights in England then 

a couple of nights for the Jocks n Paddies

I doubt we will get arenas too. The best I am hoping for is they come back and play the Etihad seeing as it is 20,000 less in capacity than Wembley or Olympic Stadium.. and if they can fit a gold circle in, it's really tiny. 

I would be shocked if they announced any arena shows. I can't believe how much money they made from those two London shows alone :shock: Most of the casuals I know who went said they'll go again, so yeah I think they can do the stadiums again :(  

What about Slash? Do you think he will leave at the end of this run? 

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1 minute ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

What about Slash? Do you think he will leave at the end of this run?

My honest thinking is when the USA tour finishes Axl will record AND tour with ACDC which leaves time for Slash to release SMKC 3 and tour.

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3 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I doubt we will get arenas too. The best I am hoping for is they come back and play the Etihad seeing as it is 20,000 less in capacity than Wembley or Olympic Stadium.. and if they can fit a gold circle in, it's really tiny. 

I would be shocked if they announced any arena shows. I can't believe how much money they made from those two London shows alone :shock: Most of the casuals I know who went said they'll go again, so yeah I think they can do the stadiums again :(  

What about Slash? Do you think he will leave at the end of this run? 

If I may ask why are you hoping for arenas, since every die-hard fan including you buys golden circle every time..

I personally prefer stadiums cause of a better atmosphere...:)

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8 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

What about Slash? Do you think he will leave at the end of this run? 

I think without Slash, GNR is dead...there is not doubt in my mind...the success of this tour is because Axl and Slash and in some extent Duff...if Slash is out...bye GNR

But I believe that Axl will do something with Angus, so that will give Slash the time to do something of his own

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What exactly is the difference between stadiums and arenas?

About the thing @Frey and @killuridols posted here and in the NY thread. I'm pretty sure we all discussed all of that in the WT. I never knew any of this until I registered for this forum so...

So I'm not really shocked by people prostituting (is that a word?) themselves. It's their choice. If all, especially if they're so young, being addicted or desperate for other reasons, it makes me feel sorry for them.

I'm only really shocked / concerned about "selling women", selling hard drugs, them having rape charges. sex with minors and beating women.

--

Whatever happens after the US tour... If Slash and Duff are out, GnR will be dead. Deader than dead because now fans will know what to miss even more. I can't see Izzy and Steven coming along and I don't see the Big Three in a studio together writing new music. Don't know why, maybe due to their age?

 

Edited by Tori72

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4 minutes ago, scooby845 said:

If I may ask why are you hoping for arenas, since every die-hard fan including you buys golden circle every time..

I personally prefer stadiums cause of a better atmosphere...:)

The main thing is the sound quality in arenas is much better, so they would sound a lot better/louder. 

I hate the majority of the show being in sunlight, the whole thing is just much better when you can see the stage fully lit up and the band members in the spotlights.

The weather in England is shit. Either you are drenched in the pissing down rain or you will be burnt to hell by the sun at outdoor shows. 

I love the atmosphere in arena shows and the stage would be smaller so it might force the guys to interact more :P

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1 hour ago, Frey said:

I'm unclear about the dates here anyway (I'm not good with dates to begin with and not as knowledgable about early GNR history as I probably should be considering how much time I waste on this forum lol) - when were these 6 months Axl supposedly lived with Michael Jagosz' parents and took heroin? I'm assuming the "two weeks" Axl sang for L.A. Guns must have been around the same time as he was living with Jagosz' parents. Or maybe shortly after or before.

I'm a little fuzzy on the details as well. From what I recall of reading Slash's autobiography and other miscellaneous biographies I've read, Axl might have been a part of L.A. Guns twice. Once apparently when L.A. Guns first formed in 1983, perhaps before or after Rapifire which was also active in 1983 (the details on this are really unclear as the timelines are subtly different depending on the source). He was also their vocalist for a few shows in October 1984 (this is a little better documented as there are recordings and pictures from this show). Now, considering the fact that Jagosz is on the Collector's Edition No. 1 EP which was apparently recorded in 1984, I would guess that the "two weeks" he's talking about is in reference to the shows in October 1984.

Edited by KiraMPD

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The Alamodome is a covered stadium so that will be interesting. They should be able to make it dark for the whole show which will be awesome. I definitely like the shows more in the dark!

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13 hours ago, marlingrl03 said:

Nice shots of Axl from the latest European tour. Can't believe it is over....but now on to the US baby! :headbang:

Image may contain: 1 person, standing and hat

Image may contain: one or more people and hat

Image may contain: one or more people and people standing

Image may contain: 1 person

I took those pics:wub: At least the two first. I've been taking between 50-150 at each of the 6 shows I've attended, so it's hard to recognice them all. To many to put watermarks on them all :P

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46 minutes ago, marlingrl03 said:

The Alamodome is a covered stadium so that will be interesting. They should be able to make it dark for the whole show which will be awesome. I definitely like the shows more in the dark!

The Dome in St. Louis is also covered.  I'll be there, pit, Duff's side.  :D

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36 minutes ago, Hejanne said:

I took those pics:wub: At least the two first. I've been taking between 50-150 at each of the 6 shows I've attended, so it's hard to recognice them all. To many to put watermarks on them all :P

Oh....I almost put down your real name for a credit but not sure if you wanted that. Some people don't. But yeah I saw them on fb. You take excellent photos!!!!! Major props. Sorry for not crediting you. 

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