zigzagbigbag

18 minutes ago, Azifwekare said:

I get where you're coming from, but in the end, Duff still got your money, and you missed out on a show. You let him gain while you lost.

I don’t see it that way. Yes, Duff got my money for the ticket (40€) but it would have been a massive and expensive trip to go to Cologne at a very hot day. 

In the end I decided that I am not willing to invest one holiday, a stressful and an expensive travel with additional costs for food and beverage etc for a Duff McKagan show in 2019.  A year ago I would have done so, as well as I have done it with nearly every GNR related show in Germany within the last 25 years.

On Monday, Instead of traveling through the country to hear three GNR songs live, I had a nice holiday with my girlfriend and yes, finally I watched TV at night. I don’t regret it in any way. 

And by no means my decision was caused by some discussion on the internet (like someone above stated). It simply was the result of how my relationship to GNR (and their members) changed within the last years because of how they tread their fans. In other words: Other things going on in my real life are more important to me than a Duff Mckagan show. Hence, I have no problem to skip a Duff McKagan show even if I have already bought a ticket. 

Don’t  get me wrong:

I am truly happy for all of you who enjoy this leaks but it is nothing but embarrassing for this (reunited) band that their fans in 2019 (still) have to get their joy by discussing some shitty snippets and/or demo versions of tunes from fuckin New GNR era! 

I was so hyped in 2016 when the „reunion“ took place and really, really expected something great to happen, at least something beside a band touring non stop with the same setlist each night and a singer who is not willing to sing in a proper way but demanding ridiculous ticket prices. 

I know it’s been said a million times but it’s such a massive bummer how this reunion developed. Yes, I appreciate it very much that they covered most places of the world to give every fan the chance to see them live (ticket prices set aside). But apart from this? Nothing but a 1000$ boxset, 300$ photos, toy trucks, GNR air and one „brand new song“ from 1986 (?).

And now the band/management even takes down those leaks of 20 year old demos of CD era songs from the internet to stop even the last piece of joy the fans have. What is this?! Has the band ever cared about bootlegs from AFD and UYI era songs?! They have been worldwide available for 30 years, first on records and then digital. I would understand these takedowns if they would concern any new unheard material planned to be released on a new record. But why take any actions on some alternate takes of TWAT and what else has popped up during the last weeks. 

I am so pissed with this band right now that I didn‘t go to Duff‘s show in Cologne on Monday. And the ticket I paid for months ago was lying right in front of me on my desk. I starred for hours at the tocket but finally said fuck it and watched TV instead. And we are talking about a show of the legendary bass player of Guns N Fuckin Roses who I was a fan of since I was nine years old (I am 39 right now) and who would play deep cuts like Dead Horse. I just couldn’t go. Would you have told me that even one year ago I would have laughed you right in the face. Sad but true. 

Sorry for being off topic. 

14 hours ago, Tourettes2400 said:

 

Is this the next brand new song up to release? 😄

6 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

I met Richard after a thin Lizzy gig, it was late he was tired but he stood around for ages and talked with me and a bunch of others. He talked about GNR, his guitars, gave us picks. He was just a really nice guy. Same with Frank, I met him in a music store right before a gig in 2012, and he was so nice! I thought both were great additions to the band before meeting them, but after that it was cemented! I know some of you might think "of course they were nice, they have to be" but, really they don't and a lot of times when you meet these people they are rude as fuck! and don't want to see you at all! for example the same time I met Frank, I met Chris Pitman and he was completely uninterested in meeting me, didn't care that I was a fan or that I was excited to meet him. He was a dick tbh. Thankfully Frank was cool to the whole experience was saved. Anyway! being nice doesn't mean anything if you can't cut it as a player, I just personally believe both of them are the whole package! We don't all have to agree on that, and this thread is evidence of that!  

I totally agree. 

And of course being a nice guy has nothing to do with those guys qualities as musicians and/or contributions to the band. But I told about my Richard meeting because some people call him a poser or what. For me he isn’t, which for me was ultimately confirmed by meeting Richard in person by accident.

To be honest. For me there’s only one guy in the band who I would call a poser, especially if your taking into account his nowadays qualities. But this is another story ;-)

Anyway, I am 100% team Izzy in any means, no matter if talking about his music, his stage presence, his image or what else. I always liked Gilby very much, too. But I was always fine with Richard being there as long as Izzy and/or Gilby aren’t. 

Another thing is Frank and Melissa. Don’t get me wrong. I can say nothing about their personalities and they did „me“ no harm. In fact I believe there both are really nice people. But the point is, for me they don’t fit in the band I love(d) so much, they just don’t fit. I don’t want to say their „image“ is wrong or something like this but in the end it is exactly this. Since I am not a native speaker I cannot describe it any better at short notice. But yeah, they dont fit in for me, qualities as musicians totally set aside. The same goes for the question if there is a need for a second keyboard player (the answer is no). 

21 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

Yeah i dont know.....i think with Slash back that it now gives credibility to the fans for any future guns release which is why an EP  and NITL DVD/album would be a good method of gauging reaction with a short tour, then a full length album and a massive tour, media blitz  and promotion in quick succession.

I fully agree. 

And for me the latter is the reason why there still is no new material. I think Axl is afraid that the public hates the new album and that it destroys the kind of reputation he recreated with NITL. 

7 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Do any members here believe the reunion was not motivated largely by Axl’s lack of cash flow?

Yes, I do think that cash was in no way the main reason for Axl to reunite with Slash, Duff and maybe Izzy. I strongly believe that he truly missed those guys, or at least the times they had. Furthermore, I truly believe that Axl heard his clock ticking and he didn’t want to be remembered GNR as the circus act they had been from VMA 2002 onwards in public mind. I think he really wants the be back with a massive „bang“, and that is what he reached. 

If they want to release cover versions it’s fine if they give them to us for free (won’t happen in GNR world) or at least as a bonus to the new album, like a limited edition release with Disc 1 (regular album) and Disc 2 (cover EP/album). 

1 hour ago, acor said:

Well, Rolling Stones released cover album lately...

Besides, its not like album sales are main source of income for bands these days.

Well, Other than GNR Rolling Stones have released one million albums with own material before their current cover album. 

Besides, I have not said a single word about sources of income for the band. Anyways, no new own material = ticket sales going down = no income.

People won’t pay hundreds/thousands of dollars (any longer) for a pure cover/nostalgia band, especially if they have been already to the NITL tour during the past three years. The reunion hype is dead.

If they got the nerves to release anything with more than one cover song at maximum, I am finally done with this band.

Anything but new own material is unacceptable after all these years. And new material does not mean to polish some thirty years old demo tracks.  

8 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Izzy and Steven could come back tomorrow   release 2 albums and a dvd and people would still complain.

Yes, some (!) people would still complain because they would not happy with the new product (yes, product). Its the nature of things that some fans are happy and some or unhappy with the current status or happenings of their favorite band, be it the newest album, the tour route, the latest interview or whatever.

But in terms of GNR everyone on this forum complaints because there still is nothing to judge, review or debate like fans of other bands can do on an „objective“ basis, if you know what I mean. That’s the difference. 

Hence, all we can do is to complain how shitty the band is treating us, the fans. This leads us to the same endless discussions in thousands of new threads which seem like everyone wants nothing to do than complain. In fact, its all just the result of being desperate in terms of being a GNR fan. 

5 minutes ago, acor said:

We don't have evidence for press coverage, as nobody counts it... Sizes of audiences is a poor evidence... While touring with AfD they were mostly a support band, in fact when AfD broke out big, they were in the middle of supporting tour... We don't know what audiences they would pull if they toured in 1989.

 

Evidence we have (and OP for some reason decides to ignore) are record sales and chart positions and they left no doubt wich era was more superior not only artisticlly, but commercially as well...

Dude, I cannot believe that yo still don’t get it. 

I said nothing but that NITL tour is that successful because of the unbelievable amount of human beings which got known to or into GNR (mass phenomenon). And this mass phenomenon happened with the UYI hype, especially in 92/93. 

This has nothing to do with the question which record is the most popular/legend Guns record respectively.  I neither does with the question which song charted the best. 

22 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

What evidence would that be? What possible evidence could you even have for such a statement?

I don't think it is correct. The UYI tour, especially the stint with Metallica and the legs in Europe and South America, turned GN'R into the hottest rock band of the time. The AFD touring lifted them from anonymity to one of the most exciting things happening, but it was when they stadium headlined across the world it really blew up.

But back to evidence. Thinking about the few metrics we have, like amount of press coverage, sizes of audiences, and the number of times the media referred to them as "the biggest rock band" (or similar), then GN'R hit their peak in the early 90s. 

Then they dropped quickly. Grunge came and bloated rock bands with all that 80s behavior became stale. Axl's antics caused a lot of antipathy. They stopped releasing music. In late 1994 and 1995, few people cared any more.

Thank you very, very much, SoulMonster! 

1 hour ago, acor said:

Ad 1. You said first UYI made them "legend", now "massive phenomenon", wich is implying they weren't massive before.

And while their legend status during AfD era, and fact that UYI's legacy is neglible at best is obvious to everyone, I also said that by all available evidence (it means-record sales, not opinion of your neighboor, work mate or whoever) they were massive before-in fact more than after- UYI.

Ad 2. Ummm... Take your pills???

Ah, something which turns into a mass (not massive!) phenomenon could not have been already massive before?! Good to know. 

Once again: GNR were massive before UYI. I have not been saying anything else. 

But your statement that they had been bigger before UYI than afterwards, specially in between 91 and 93/94, is complete nonsense. Show me your evidence. 

And with respect to the „legend“ status: To be a legend has NOTHING to do with records sales but with the respect that a certain group of people (small or big) brings you after some period of time. In no way GNR were called legends by anyone during the AFD era. They were a massive (!) rock band. Nothing more and nothing less. No mass phenomenon, no legends. 

In fact, they were not to be considered as a legend before 2000 at the earliest, by no means while the AFD/UYI lieup was still active. What they turned legends for the mainstream was their omnipresence during the UYI era. The people on this forum are not representative. 

47 minutes ago, acor said:

But legend and mass phenomenon are two different things... UYI Era GnR are not "legend" of any kind... Don't use wrong words to discribe things

If you say so. 

48 minutes ago, acor said:

Although I must say, if having diamond album and #1 single is not massive, then I don't know what is...

Nobody said this is not „massive“. Don’t use wrong words. 

49 minutes ago, acor said:

. By all available evidence,, GnR were bigger band during AfD era (post AfD era actually, as it took a while for the album to break out) than during UYI era.

Lol. Yeah right! And there is no climate change. Its all fake news. 

9 hours ago, RussTCB said:

 

DAMN.

First, let me apologize to both of you as I'm one of those leading the charge when it comes to posting / bragging about price drops. 

I sincerely apologize to both of you as my intent was never to shove it in the face of those who paid full price.

No need to apologize, Russ :-)

Of course it’s mandatory to inform all forum members about each price drop. I am happy for everyone who is able to make a bargain. 

18 minutes ago, jdfdemocracy1979 said:

Yeh I was one of those suckers who dropped 1k as well. I stopped going to the site I would say morherfuckers every time I see the peice drop! All of us who purchased it at launch we love the box but we got ass fucked with a dildo with pieces of broken glass all over it. FUCK YOU UNIVERSAL! Also fuck me for being dumb enough to spend a grand!!!!!!

Same here. But since I cannot stop visiting this forum, I am always informed about each single price drop or special (like the turntable bundle). This whole anniversary release was such a fat middle finger to the fans. Set aside the boxset, just realize how the fans got fucked who bought the super deluxe edition. What was it? 170$? Now it’s 45$ I guess. 

10 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

It was mentioned earlier in the thread but I think this is absolutely the label breaking up the remaining boxes and trying to pass it off as "The AFD Collection". This is totally my guess, but I think the reason the vinyl hasn't shown up yet is because they're going to have the nerve to hold that back and call it a Record Store Day Exclusive in the future. 

I am afraid you’re totally right. And that move would be the next slap in our faces. Especially if taking into account that they promoted the vinyl to be exclusive to the boxset if i do remember correctly. 

16 minutes ago, acor said:

Im not talking about NITL tour at all... You used the word "legend", and that's what I was referring to... I wasn't talking about popularity (although sales levels of AfD and UYI seems to contradict your pov)... And there's no maybe in wheter they'd be a legends if they released only AFD... Its a fact. 

Dude, but I was referring to NITL tour in my original post! Within this post I used the word „legend“ as a synonym for „mass phenomenon“  in the context of explaining the NITL tour‘s success. I don’t think it’s that difficult.

7 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

Still Respectfully disagree.. Before the Illusions Guns were still sharing the stage with the likes of The Rolling Stones, Alice Cooper and Tom Petty.. Axl and Slash were still household names.. Even the other guys to a lesser extent.. Axl was known for his Bandanna and snake dance from the Sweet Child video just as much as any Illusion Era outfit. Which were all pretty ridiculous looking.. Guns were the main feature in almost every music magazine during the Appetite Era. They made it into a Clint Eastwood movie.. They were blowing legendary headlining acts like Aerosmith off the stage and stealing their fans.. Look what happened at Donnington.. They sold out Wembley Stadium before the Illusions albums were released as well. The also completely owned the Rock In Rio shows which were massive and aired on MTV as well.. Again.. Sure they were huge during the Illusions tour but they were already the biggest rock band in the world before this albums even dropped and could have been selling out the world just as much in 89-90 as they did they years after but they were working on new music which took 2 years..

 I hear you and totally agree that AFD is a once in a lifetime classic (or legend or whatever) album. I even bought this fuckin L&L box at the day of release because this album and the AFD era means so much to me.

But my personal opinion is and will be: no UYI era, no NITL success (NITL success = GNR are a mass phenomenon)

18 minutes ago, acor said:

LOL, AfD and AFD alone gave them legend status... Do you even know what "legend" means? Maybe UYI circus got them additional exposure to, as you say "avarage Joes", but their legacy is AFD and Lies...

No offense, but you are some damn wrong if you truly believe that NITL tour is such an success because of AFD alone. Or in other words: You don’t think NITL tour would be that successful as it is even if there were no UYI albums?!

I cannot remember a tour like NITL GNR did in between 87 and 91, can you? 

Apart from this, it seems you didn’t read my post. I did not say that GNR didn’t reach legend status because of AFD alone. Maybe they  would be considered as legends from todays point of view even if AFD would have been their one and only album. Who knows. 

What I did say is, that UYI gave them the legend status they still do profit from to date. In other words: If there would have not been the mainstrem hype during 91-94 there wouldn’t be packed stadiums for nearly four years now. 

26 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

I couldn't disagree more.. Guns N' Roses were fucking huge before the illusions came out and could play stadiums by the time LIES was out.  Appetite was a lot more than the 3 singles.. People rocked that whole album. The Illusion albums charted and number's 1 & 2 riding the coat tails of Appetite and LIES. I vividly remember many people not like the Illusion albums as much and I still find myself defending the albums to this day. How can anyone say the average Joe learned Jungle, Sweet Child and Paradise City after getting into the band during the Illusions albums? That is just not accurate. It may have happened and it may be your story but I lived it. Guns N' Roses started getting really big when Appetite was released and I was in middle school. The next year when I went to high school you couldn't walk down the hall or sit in a class without seeing a Guns N' Roses shirt. LIES was huge with my crowd as well. Civil War was also huge prior to Illusions coming out when they released it on a soundtrack or whatever. Almost every kind of rock fan back loved the band. When the illusions came out that all started to change. Sure they were still very successful and had a huge tour but do you think any of that would have been possible without Appetite/LIES??? I love the Illusions albums but if the Illusions came out first, we wouldn't be talking about this band today... 

No misunderstanding: AFD was huge and known to every rock fan, maybe even to every open minded music fan. No doubt about it. 

But the massive international/worldwide hype when GNR became the biggest band on the planet was the UYI era. You cannot deny this. 

During the AFD/Lies era there were no pay worldwide live streams of a stadium show direct from Paris, there was no airplay in pop radio, their was no coverage in yellow press magazines, there was not every single kid at school wearing GNR shirts from 10 years onwards, my mom did not know who Slash was, there was no signature outfit of Axl Rose nearly each human being in the western/eastern world between 10 and  65 could describe, there was no GNR bedlinen, their were no new GNR special magazines at your local kiosk each month, there was no Axl Rose hitting the stage several times during the Freddie Mercury Tribute show, there was no November Rain video all the fashion girls talked about because Stephanie Seymour was in, there was no multiple sharing the stage with Elton John, there was no Arnold Schwarzenegger blockbuster feature, there were no sold out shows at Wembley fuckin’ stadium etc.

During AFD/Lies era GNR were one very known and good rock band which was praised within the rock music scene. This is for sure. But the time when you had no chance to escape from GNR and everybody worldwide learned about them was from 91-94. 

Same goes for Metallica (on a slightly different level). Of course Kill, Ride, Master and Justice are classic albums everyone interested in hard rock music knew. But Metallica finally became world famous to „everyone“ with the black album. 

Finally, my definition of the average joe is my boss for example. She is 45 years old and went to the NITL tour with her husband and friends because „Slish (sic) is back“ and „I liked Knock, knock on heavens door and November Rain so much when I was young“. You’re nothing but wasting time when you ask her for Mr Brownstone, Nightrain or Rocket Queen. But she does know Nothing else matters and the intro riff of Enter Sandmann for sure. 

12 hours ago, bumbleslash69 said:

What was the general reaction when Oh My God was released?

Nowadays it's just a footnote it seems like. I remember back in the "dark days" between 02 and 06 lots of chatter about it. But nothing too concrete is sticking out to me other than they were calling it a demo for some reason.

The geneal reaction was „Oh my god!“. 

2 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

I hope cooler heads prevail and the band do it for the fans. If thats how axl feels that the illusions period wasnt a happy time then fine maybe say that as part of an interview, its no surprise to any fan. But whether they like it or not the illusions era was a huge moment for the band.

Furthermore the UYI albums and the UYI tour are the (only) reason why the band can still tour stadiums from 2016-2019 without having released one single note of new music. The average joe comes because he got into GNR via the UYI era. Of course AFD is a classic and the average joe got known Sweet child, PC and WTTJ after he got into GNR in 92 or 93, maybe already in 91. But its not that these three AFD songs had filled the biggest stadiums worldwide back then or they alone could fill stadiums these days. The people come to the NITL tour because of their 90s nostalgia caused by then omnipresent cartoon characters named Axl Rose and Slash and songs like KOHD, NR, Don’t Cry, LALD, YCBM (T2), maybe even Estranged or Yesterdays. Of course they are not coming for the Garden, Garden of Eden or Dead Horse. But they are also not coming because of Sweet child or PC alone. 

Hence, in my opinion the UYI era got GNR the legend status they still do profit from to this day. This is why they should give the UYI the anniversary party these albums deserve even more than AFD.