Dr.Dre/Axl

[Shuffle]

That's just great. I'm below 30, so of course I'm just following a trend by taking an interest in a genre that is popular right now...

Under 30? Dude, you're 16 years old, so it's perfectly natural for you to be listening to whatever your high school buds do - and think it's the greatest thing since the latest post on your facebook page. But those who have been around longer - over the age of say 28 - or even young kids who don't care about what their buds are listening to - tend to be discovering the timeless music created by bands like Led Zeppelin, the Doors and even Pink Floyd. That's why so many of these older bands still sell millions of records every year - decades after they were released.

It's not a diss - it's just an observation.

Seriously... This is what Lithium listens to: clicky

Take a look at that before you accuse him of following the latest trends, doing whatever his friends does etc etc etc

...and stacks on deck's post was pretty much the best in the thread.

(you've posted links to your lastfm page on here before Lithium, so I hope you don't mind me posting this)

Edited March 15, 2009 by Soulseller

[december pain]

Is Robo Axl just a second username for Madison?

[Nobodys_Fault]

I find it hilarious when people claim to know exactly what everyone's going to be listening to in 20 years time.

[Shuffle]

First of all, you mention lyrical content in that message. There is no denying that there are talented lyricists in the rap genre, perhaps more talented than in rock.

But I'm afraid that beats and rhymes just can't compete with a great melody. People will still be singing Hey Jude, Stairway to Heaven, Sweet Child O' Mine etc in god knows how many years from now. Nobody will remember Stan or Gangsta's Paradise, among the most famous rap tunes today.

This was released in 1995 and it's still popular and well known... That's 14 years, so far it's been doing pretty good. And it probably will in the future too, why? Because it's a good song.

[madison]

It puzzles me how these people think it is "Cool" to simply speak over a beat-- that they themselves didn't even make! I suggest you all grow up. When you reach your 30s you will see how wrong you are and you'll realize that the whole "Rap"" craze is just a gimmick. ...

Finally - someone who sees rap for what it is.

Thank you.

Here's the issue: The "dad rock" has artistic merit, the rap doesn't. Setting rhymes to a generic hip-hop beat is much easier than writing a decent rock song.

A single Beatles track, say, "Hey Jude", has more artistic value than the entire genre of rap combined.

Rap artists stir controversy with overtly violent lyrics in an attempt to cover up for the lack of substance in the genre......

But I'm afraid that beats and rhymes just can't compete with a great melody. People will still be singing Hey Jude, Stairway to Heaven, Sweet Child O' Mine etc in god knows how many years from now. Nobody will remember Stan or Gangsta's Paradise, among the most famous rap tunes today.

Exactly. The last line in your post sums it up perfectly - Even the high school sheep who blindly follow their pals' taste in music, can't possibly dispute your last comment.

As for the kids in the thread - as I mentioned before - please come back and talk to me when you've lived another decade or two and you've seen trends come and go among high school kids as I have. I've made my point. I'm done with the thread.

[estranged 16]

ok? just walk away and leave us 'kids' alone

[bucketrod]

It puzzles me how these people think it is "Cool" to simply speak over a beat-- that they themselves didn't even make! I suggest you all grow up. When you reach your 30s you will see how wrong you are and you'll realize that the whole "Rap"" craze is just a gimmick. ...

Finally - someone who sees rap for what it is.

Thank you.

Here's the issue: The "dad rock" has artistic merit, the rap doesn't. Setting rhymes to a generic hip-hop beat is much easier than writing a decent rock song.

A single Beatles track, say, "Hey Jude", has more artistic value than the entire genre of rap combined.

Rap artists stir controversy with overtly violent lyrics in an attempt to cover up for the lack of substance in the genre......

But I'm afraid that beats and rhymes just can't compete with a great melody. People will still be singing Hey Jude, Stairway to Heaven, Sweet Child O' Mine etc in god knows how many years from now. Nobody will remember Stan or Gangsta's Paradise, among the most famous rap tunes today.

Exactly. The last line in your post sums it up perfectly - Even the high school sheep who blindly follow their pals' taste in music, can't possibly dispute your last comment.

As for the kids in the thread - as I mentioned before - please come back and talk to me when you've lived another decade or two and you've seen trends come and go among high school kids as I have. I've made my point. I'm done with the thread.

v

I stopped listening to rap about 5 years ago but you are wrong. I haven't listened to the Chronic in over 10 years and can remember the words to Nuthin Bu a G Thang. I also remember most of the words on Tupac's "All Eyez on Me" album etc,

If you click on this link and don't know the words to the song then I think you have a very limited taste in music

[AtariLegend]

Nobody will remember Stan or Gangsta's Paradise, among the most famous rap tunes today.

"Gangsta's Paradise" is 14 years old, it's a song from 1995. People do remember it today.

People might not remember the artist, but they remember that song.

[Shuffle]

Nice way of ignoring the various arguments and pulling the age card... Because that's mature.

[estranged 16]

see--THAT is a song that will be remembered for a longggg time

[stacks on deck]

Finally - someone who sees rap for what it is.

Thank you.

he was mocking you.

Exactly. The last line in your post sums it up perfectly - Even the high school sheep who blindly follow their pals' taste in music, can't possibly dispute your last comment.

see:

I find it hilarious when people claim to know exactly what everyone's going to be listening to in 20 years time.

As for the kids in the thread - as I mentioned before - please come back and talk to me when you've lived another decade or two and you've seen trends come and go among high school kids as I have. I've made my point. I'm done with the thread.

see:

countless other journalists and even musicians--including elton john, bob dylan, trent reznor, and paul mccartney--have echoed similar thoughts, praising the genre as the most important form of music alive right now. surely they know what they're talking about. unless you think they're just being trendy. which makes me think you're just being an idiot.

it's not a phase. it's been around for decades and continues to evolve more rapidly than any other genre before it.

[SpUd_Jr]

Hip hop music has been around for over 30 years. It's not a flash-in-the-pan fad that's going to die.

[Nobodys_Fault]

It puzzles me how these people think it is "Cool" to simply speak over a beat-- that they themselves didn't even make! I suggest you all grow up. When you reach your 30s you will see how wrong you are and you'll realize that the whole "Rap"" craze is just a gimmick. ...

Finally - someone who sees rap for what it is.

Thank you.

The fact that the only person you could find in the thread who agreed with you, was very clearly taking the piss, says a lot.

[SpUd_Jr]

It puzzles me how these people think it is "Cool" to simply speak over a beat-- that they themselves didn't even make! I suggest you all grow up. When you reach your 30s you will see how wrong you are and you'll realize that the whole "Rap"" craze is just a gimmick. ...

Finally - someone who sees rap for what it is.

Thank you.

The fact that the only person you could find in the thread who agreed with you, was very clearly taking the piss, says a lot.

To be fair, she does have Robo 'I think U2, Prince, and Radiohead suck' Axl on her side.

[Serg]

Dr. Dre has been working constantly since his last album on other projects. He produces a shitload of songs, and delivered Eminem and 50 Cent to the masses. The man is constantly working. He is one of the most, if not the most, respected man in the rap world. Detox will be huge if and when it is released. It is a guaranteed smash.

Axl has spent about a third of his life out of the public eye working on one album that will be forgotten in five years. Hell, it's forgotten by most people today. I think that his ego and erratic personality have overtaken his artistic drive and his legacy is now somewhat questionable. What he does in the next year or so could shape how people remember him.

+1

[Johnny Drama]

I suggest you all grow up. When you reach your 30s you will see how wrong you are and you'll realize that the whole "Rap"" craze is just a gimmick. Alice Cooper doesn't have a gimmick, he's just a natural showman. Rap, however, is for juveniles. I hope someday you will all realize this.

Why do all rappers wear glasses indoors?

It puzzles me how these people think it is "Cool" to simply speak over a beat-- that they themselves didn't even make!

here's two examples for you:

dr dre and kanye west produce their own beats

as for the rest of your post...i hope you're kidding.

About the sunglasses....don't forget Mr. Stradlin and Mr. McKagan in your sig.

[estranged 16]

About the sunglasses....don't forget Mr. Stradlin and Mr. McKagan in your sig.

true. but i realized december pain was being sarcastic. time for me to delete my post lol

[Jakey Styley]

It puzzles me how these people think it is "Cool" to simply speak over a beat-- that they themselves didn't even make! I suggest you all grow up. When you reach your 30s you will see how wrong you are and you'll realize that the whole "Rap"" craze is just a gimmick. ...

Finally - someone who sees rap for what it is.

Thank you.

Here's the issue: The "dad rock" has artistic merit, the rap doesn't. Setting rhymes to a generic hip-hop beat is much easier than writing a decent rock song.

A single Beatles track, say, "Hey Jude", has more artistic value than the entire genre of rap combined.

Rap artists stir controversy with overtly violent lyrics in an attempt to cover up for the lack of substance in the genre......

But I'm afraid that beats and rhymes just can't compete with a great melody. People will still be singing Hey Jude, Stairway to Heaven, Sweet Child O' Mine etc in god knows how many years from now. Nobody will remember Stan or Gangsta's Paradise, among the most famous rap tunes today.

Exactly. The last line in your post sums it up perfectly - Even the high school sheep who blindly follow their pals' taste in music, can't possibly dispute your last comment.

As for the kids in the thread - as I mentioned before - please come back and talk to me when you've lived another decade or two and you've seen trends come and go among high school kids as I have. I've made my point. I'm done with the thread.

ROCK N FUCKIN ROLL FOREVER FUCK THIS NEW RAP SHIT

[Guest Len B'stard]

It puzzles me how these people think it is "Cool" to simply speak over a beat-- that they themselves didn't even make! I suggest you all grow up. When you reach your 30s you will see how wrong you are and you'll realize that the whole "Rap"" craze is just a gimmick. ...

Finally - someone who sees rap for what it is.

Thank you.

Here's the issue: The "dad rock" has artistic merit, the rap doesn't. Setting rhymes to a generic hip-hop beat is much easier than writing a decent rock song.

A single Beatles track, say, "Hey Jude", has more artistic value than the entire genre of rap combined.

Rap artists stir controversy with overtly violent lyrics in an attempt to cover up for the lack of substance in the genre......

But I'm afraid that beats and rhymes just can't compete with a great melody. People will still be singing Hey Jude, Stairway to Heaven, Sweet Child O' Mine etc in god knows how many years from now. Nobody will remember Stan or Gangsta's Paradise, among the most famous rap tunes today.

Exactly. The last line in your post sums it up perfectly - Even the high school sheep who blindly follow their pals' taste in music, can't possibly dispute your last comment.

As for the kids in the thread - as I mentioned before - please come back and talk to me when you've lived another decade or two and you've seen trends come and go among high school kids as I have. I've made my point. I'm done with the thread.

ROCK N FUCKIN ROLL FOREVER FUCK THIS NEW RAP SHIT

Rock n Roll was fucked, impregnanted, ditched and left on the dole by hip hop long ago

[volcano62]

It puzzles me how these people think it is "Cool" to simply speak over a beat-- that they themselves didn't even make! I suggest you all grow up. When you reach your 30s you will see how wrong you are and you'll realize that the whole "Rap"" craze is just a gimmick. ...

Finally - someone who sees rap for what it is.

Thank you.

Here's the issue: The "dad rock" has artistic merit, the rap doesn't. Setting rhymes to a generic hip-hop beat is much easier than writing a decent rock song.

A single Beatles track, say, "Hey Jude", has more artistic value than the entire genre of rap combined.

Rap artists stir controversy with overtly violent lyrics in an attempt to cover up for the lack of substance in the genre......

But I'm afraid that beats and rhymes just can't compete with a great melody. People will still be singing Hey Jude, Stairway to Heaven, Sweet Child O' Mine etc in god knows how many years from now. Nobody will remember Stan or Gangsta's Paradise, among the most famous rap tunes today.

Exactly. The last line in your post sums it up perfectly - Even the high school sheep who blindly follow their pals' taste in music, can't possibly dispute your last comment.

As for the kids in the thread - as I mentioned before - please come back and talk to me when you've lived another decade or two and you've seen trends come and go among high school kids as I have. I've made my point. I'm done with the thread.

ROCK N FUCKIN ROLL FOREVER FUCK THIS NEW RAP SHIT

Rock n Roll was fucked, impregnanted, ditched and left on the dole by hip hop long ago

In the USA? Absolutely!

[GivenToFly]

Read this thread again. Haha! Thanks for bumping and reminding me what an idiot Madison was. Either that or the best cupcake of all time

[wasted]

I think they are both a victim of their own success and have no real need to put out any old record. they can only really harm their reps.

they could both be suffering from being on Lady Gagas label. like they prob give a shit abot dre or axl theyve got the biggest thing right now.

[dalsh327]

[Guest Len B'stard]

I see a lot of similarities between the blues and hip hop, i think they're SO similar it's fascinating.

Both born out of like, poverty and social strife. Both reflect that. Both got fuckin slaughtered for daring to do so. Both bought sort of alien rhythms to modern music. I mean, blues music, on paper, doesn't make sense, it doesn't work, it doesn't fit classical western music theory. Hip Hop, like the blues, basically presented social situation that occured in America that basically, the establishment didn't give a shit about. Both are forms of protest music. Hip Hop is routinely criticised for "glorifying" violence etc but i don't see that as the case, if anything it was like the news, it was like...hey, look, this is happening in a corner of our country. I find it very hypocritical in general of like, the establishment to be critical of young hardworking black folks presenting a picture of inner city life and strife when it's like, OK, basically, what you're saying you're presented with a series of social handicaps and if you turn to crime, we'll criticise you and condemn you and incarcerate you and throw away the key. HOWEVER, talk about your social strifes in the context of a new and innovative art form and you're still a criminal. Kinda same thing with the blues, it presented a side of life that is a reality but society doesn't like seeing itself reflected back.

The similarities though, are endless. Blues players didn't have no fuckin classical training or music theory, they just used whatever tools they had and improvised. Same with kids in the Bronx with fuckin decks and old records. The singing about strife, the percieved misogyny in hip hop is basically just an extension of what blues players sung about, the whole "devil woman" angle, thats basically what the bitches n hoes aspect of hip hop is, an updated version of that. The obssession with money and matierialism may seem shallow to the middle classes but can it not also be percieved as an in the moment existentialist celebration of life as it is as opposed to the more pie in the sky aspects of music celebrating or attempting to reflect something intangible.

An MC that rides a rhythm to be ain't a lot different to a blues saxaphone player improvising over a rhythm. I think it was Stanley Crouch who said that improvisation, protean ability to improvise rather, is central to the expierience of the American negro which is a wonderful way of looking at it and it makes a world of sense, especially in a musical context. Same with DJs at mix comps, it's basically just improvisatory musicianmanship.

I feel sorry, i truly do, for all the people that listen to a DJ scratching and they don't see the sublime musicality of it, the inherent rhythm, i don't think thats a lot different from people back in the day listening to a plodding 12 bar blues and not being able to percieve the musicality of it and thinking its just thuddey sounding and a lot of noise.

Hip Hop, also, was born out of immense racial injustice, listen to the earliest hip hop, or even stuff like The Last Poets, it's seriously militant stuff, N****** Are Scared of Revolution and all that, it's serious black panther ground being covered. Same with the blues, through slavery and jim crow and all that shit, it's just a continuation of the same shit.

There's SOOO many disparate elements to hip hop, the jazz aspect, the blues aspect as being explained here, the post modern aspect, the foundations of it in the offbeat rhythms of funk and reggae with cannot be ignored, the funk/hip hop connection is something that isn't dwelt upon enough in my book, same with reggae and how the concept of rapping is pretty much identical Jamcian toasting that DJs like U Roy pioneered.

And after all this, when people attack hip hop for a lack of musicality, it's just laughable, i'd say hip hop is more inherently in tune to musicality than rock n roll ever could be, rock n roll is to rhythm n blues what rap is to hip hop, a cynical exercise in repackaging for the express purpose of commerce. Hip Hop is the most well rounded and beautiful art form to come out of music since the rhythm and blues and it is my firm belief that it's historical importance will bear out as such. It's just too obvious to ignore.

So, y'know, i understand people not liking hip hop but denying it's musicality? Thats just rubbish, an ignorant attitude based on silly predudices which are only sad really because there's so much to other forms of music that, if nothing else at very least can inform your understanding of the music YOU like.

Hip Hop has more grounding in musicality and more scope for expansion in the field of musicality than rock n roll ever did. Rock n Roll was basically watered down rhythm and blues and barely had legs artistically speaking until a bunch of people started emphasising on its grounding in rhythm and blues and expanding on it from there. If it were left to Elvis and Carl Perkins and Jerry Lee, as much as i adore with all my heart the three artists mentioned, rock n roll woulda gone nowhere and, at least in terms of the early 60s, WAS nowhere. Not that there wasn't good fun pop music around at that time, it's just that it was pretty fuckin lightweight.

It's the English and our hard on for history and context and authenticity that breathed new life into rock n roll and that was done by taking it back to its roots and working from there.

So yeah, hip hop not musical? Yeah, i start to wonder what's in the record collections of people that espouse this opnion.

[CheapJon]

fuck what a bag full of shit madison seemes to be