Something from Keith Richard's book--could be applicable to the whole 'new Guns' thing

[Count Drugcula]

But Mick and Keith were able to put their differences aside. Mick never would've attempted to tour as the Stones without Keith and Charlie. Even when he did the concert for NYC, it was billed as Mick & Keith.

Jagger was focused on doing movies and recording stuff that never would've been recorded with the Stones.

I don't think Jagger played live solo outside of Japan. And as far as I know, that guitarist Keith's talking about was Satriani.

Mick wanted to take the Stones in a new wave and disco inspired direction. Emotional Rescue and Undercover are examples of this. He was asserting more and more control over the band's sound, making it less guitar oriented. The kind of stuff from his first solo album is the exact direction he wanted to take the Stones, but was fought by Keith, which was the beginning of their feud. He, like Axl, felt the Stones should jump on every new trend.

Jagger never took doing movies seriously and I think has only done what, 4 or 5 movies in 40 years?

As for the show in NYC, that was in 2002, LONG after their breakup/feud period had ended. I think had Mick could legally, he might've tried it. Axl does it because he can. We don't really know the legal status of the Rolling Stones name.

Axl and Mick are very much alike, except Axl's nuts. Like Mick, Axl is shrewd businesswise, power hungry, egotistical and obsessed with working out to the last minute detail the band's business side. Both of them are full of pride and ego. In fact, meeting Mick in 1989 when Guns opened for them was most likely what inspired Axl to start issuing contracts and becoming obsessed with operating the business side of Guns. He spoke about how shrewd Jagger was (something about Mick going so far as to inspect the gate receipts personally with an accountant for any irregularities) and he expressed admiration for it if I recall correctly. The very next year, 1990, Axl issued his own first contract, which would fine Steven Adler $2000 if he was caught using drugs...And after that, he became contract happy.

[jekylhyde]

People who say "Keith who?" need to learn respect...

But yeah, this Keith & Mick -thing is similar to Gn'R. And I'm with Keith on this one, mostly. But then again, I'm happy that Axl is making music and touring. (He could sometimes release music too.)

[eye2eye]

What a stupid topic .... Slash quit on his own terms, Axl did not fire him, he quit. As far as I know Keith did not quit so how it is exactly the same situation for some of you is hard to understand.

By such logic, Alice Cooper should not be Alice Cooper, Megadeth should not be Megadeth, Alice in Chains should not be Alice in Chains, Deep Purple should not be Deep Purple etc, etc

[STARABOSTES]

I can't sleep, so that's why the long writing... B)

What's to blame for the mountains of retarded shit found within the writing?

I guess your brain?!

[dalsh327]

But Mick and Keith were able to put their differences aside. Mick never would've attempted to tour as the Stones without Keith and Charlie. Even when he did the concert for NYC, it was billed as Mick & Keith.

Jagger was focused on doing movies and recording stuff that never would've been recorded with the Stones.

I don't think Jagger played live solo outside of Japan. And as far as I know, that guitarist Keith's talking about was Satriani.

Mick wanted to take the Stones in a new wave and disco inspired direction. Emotional Rescue and Undercover are examples of this. He was asserting more and more control over the band's sound, making it less guitar oriented. The kind of stuff from his first solo album is the exact direction he wanted to take the Stones, but was fought by Keith, which was the beginning of their feud. He, like Axl, felt the Stones should jump on every new trend.

Jagger never took doing movies seriously and I think has only done what, 4 or 5 movies in 40 years?

As for the show in NYC, that was in 2002, LONG after their breakup/feud period had ended. I think had Mick could legally, he might've tried it. Axl does it because he can. We don't really know the legal status of the Rolling Stones name.

Axl and Mick are very much alike, except Axl's nuts. Like Mick, Axl is shrewd businesswise, power hungry, egotistical and obsessed with working out to the last minute detail the band's business side. Both of them are full of pride and ego. In fact, meeting Mick in 1989 when Guns opened for them was most likely what inspired Axl to start issuing contracts and becoming obsessed with operating the business side of Guns. He spoke about how shrewd Jagger was (something about Mick going so far as to inspect the gate receipts personally with an accountant for any irregularities) and he expressed admiration for it if I recall correctly. The very next year, 1990, Axl issued his own first contract, which would fine Steven Adler $2000 if he was caught using drugs...And after that, he became contract happy.

Axl and Prince aren't that different from each other, except Prince takes less time to record. Prince has done as much as Axl as far as pissing the fans off, except Prince never caused a riot at his shows.

[Trilogy]

I read through that book, and came to the conclusion that Keith Richards is an asshole. How is Mick touring stabbing him in the back? It's not. Keith is very Slash like in his bullshit slanting. In the book, he pathetically uses quotations from other people about he and Mick's feud, stop putting that shit out there. Ever heard of privacy? I guess The Rolling Stones non-stop cash grab touring isn't putting enough in his pocket to support his drug habit.

It is obvious from your post you don't know shit about the Stones or their history..You say you read Keef Autobiography but you saw only what you wanted to see without actually understanding what emotions Keef was trying to express ......

Keef and Mick used to be like brothers in their closeness and now are more like an old married couple and if you did read and understand the book you would have realized that Keef is not an asshole nor is he jealous or hate Mick. He is like a spouse who is sad that he and he mate have grown apart and no longer have much in common...Based on what he wrote, and has said in interviews throught the years, he wishes for the days when he and Mick were close again and could hang out together but those days have long passed.

Axl and Slash went though a similar estrangement in the mid 90's with Slash eventually quiting...If you read the old interviews Axl was pissed at Slash for doing Snakepit and actually thought of sueing Slash when he did that project and tour. IMHO Slash, despite his jabs at Axl in the press, also misses the old days when he and Axl were tight and is still hurt by Axl's power grab and how he shut the other old band members out one by one. Go here and read the old interviews I uploaded and you will have a better understanding of what went down with Gun back in the AFD, UYI, and the shit that went down that led to everyone quiting....

http://www.4shared.com/account/dir/2Rv8fW5a/sharing.html?rnd=94

While the circumstances are not exactly identical there are many similarities between the two relationships with only the outcome being different with the Stones still together with 4 equal partners and Axl the only remaining original member of the AFD band..

As far as the Stones doing a money grab they are still touring close to 50 years later with three of the orginal members, are still making original music together, putting on great shows and filling Arenas here in the U.S. which is something Axl can only dream of......

the problem I'm having with this post is how do you magically understand what Keith was emotionally feeling,while discounting what another. Reader gleaned from the book he admitted reading as well? Two people can,and do interpret the same book,or the same song differently,and your revelations may not match what any other reader recieved by reading said book,that said,these are two entirely different bands with two different dynamics,and although it makes for interesting banter,its not really that relevant as pertaining. To GNR,might as well compare the aerosmith breakup,or the Beatles breakup,I'm sure we could nitpick similarities as well as differences in the breakup of each group,also,whomever was claiming that axl got contract happy after opening for the stones was quoting from a mick wall article,not the best source for accurate or unbiased information imo.

[ShadowOfTheWave]

I read through that book, and came to the conclusion that Keith Richards is an asshole. How is Mick touring stabbing him in the back? It's not. Keith is very Slash like in his bullshit slanting. In the book, he pathetically uses quotations from other people about he and Mick's feud, stop putting that shit out there. Ever heard of privacy? I guess The Rolling Stones non-stop cash grab touring isn't putting enough in his pocket to support his drug habit.

It is obvious from your post you don't know shit about the Stones or their history..You say you read Keef Autobiography but you saw only what you wanted to see without actually understanding what emotions Keef was trying to express ......

Keef and Mick used to be like brothers in their closeness and now are more like an old married couple and if you did read and understand the book you would have realized that Keef is not an asshole nor is he jealous or hate Mick. He is like a spouse who is sad that he and he mate have grown apart and no longer have much in common...Based on what he wrote, and has said in interviews throught the years, he wishes for the days when he and Mick were close again and could hang out together but those days have long passed.

Axl and Slash went though a similar estrangement in the mid 90's with Slash eventually quiting...If you read the old interviews Axl was pissed at Slash for doing Snakepit and actually thought of sueing Slash when he did that project and tour. IMHO Slash, despite his jabs at Axl in the press, also misses the old days when he and Axl were tight and is still hurt by Axl's power grab and how he shut the other old band members out one by one. Go here and read the old interviews I uploaded and you will have a better understanding of what went down with Gun back in the AFD, UYI, and the shit that went down that led to everyone quiting....

http://www.4shared.com/account/dir/2Rv8fW5a/sharing.html?rnd=94

While the circumstances are not exactly identical there are many similarities between the two relationships with only the outcome being different with the Stones still together with 4 equal partners and Axl the only remaining original member of the AFD band..

As far as the Stones doing a money grab they are still touring close to 50 years later with three of the orginal members, are still making original music together, putting on great shows and filling Arenas here in the U.S. which is something Axl can only dream of......

Actually I do know shit about the Stones, and you should keep your fucking assumptions to yourself. I read what Keith said, and guess what? That's between him and Mick, not between him, Mick, and all that people that read his book. Keith made this book for money and press, and included personal shit about his relationship with Mick for money and press, because no one would give a fuck if he didn't.

[grigori]

What a stupid topic .... Slash quit on his own terms, Axl did not fire him, he quit. As far as I know Keith did not quit so how it is exactly the same situation for some of you is hard to understand.

By such logic, Alice Cooper should not be Alice Cooper, Megadeth should not be Megadeth, Alice in Chains should not be Alice in Chains, Deep Purple should not be Deep Purple etc, etc

I think it is more similar of a situation than not. I think most would agree the similarities were uncanny too.

[sandycat]

you took a lot of words to say that axl once fronted a band called guns n' roses and now fronts a band called guns n' roses. so essentially, you proved my point. thank you.

if you want to buy a copy of chinese democracy, where do you look? the guns n' roses section. the same section where all their albums can be found, regardless of which musicians performed on it..

you missed the whole point of the article. Yes, you can buy Chines D in the same section. The point is, that Axl is better with the original. Yes, they lost a drummer and Izzy quit. but the core (axl, slash, and duff) who were/are the faces of the band remained. Look, i am as big a gnr fan as anyone, and got to see the real thing in their biggest days. Trust me, this new band is good, but give me the original or at least the uyi line up any day. I dont recall seeing those albums in $1.00 bargin bin and best buy? Its really sad that they keep saying that they wont get back together. I just see them screwing up the whole rock and roill hall of fame thing. I can see slash and duff there, but i hope Axl gives in and gives the majority of the fans what they really want. Even if its just them playing a few old songs that night. The new band has really nothing to do with the name getting in the R&R HOF, so they shouldnt be shocked or hurt. They know!

[dalsh327]

There's also a few things in Dave Mustaine's book you could apply to Axl.

[Guest siliconmessiah]

you took a lot of words to say that axl once fronted a band called guns n' roses and now fronts a band called guns n' roses. so essentially, you proved my point. thank you.

if you want to buy a copy of chinese democracy, where do you look? the guns n' roses section. the same section where all their albums can be found, regardless of which musicians performed on it..

you missed the whole point of the article. Yes, you can buy Chines D in the same section. The point is, that Axl is better with the original. Yes, they lost a drummer and Izzy quit. but the core (axl, slash, and duff) who were/are the faces of the band remained. Look, i am as big a gnr fan as anyone, and got to see the real thing in their biggest days. Trust me, this new band is good, but give me the original or at least the uyi line up any day. I dont recall seeing those albums in $1.00 bargin bin and best buy? Its really sad that they keep saying that they wont get back together. I just see them screwing up the whole rock and roill hall of fame thing. I can see slash and duff there, but i hope Axl gives in and gives the majority of the fans what they really want. Even if its just them playing a few old songs that night. The new band has really nothing to do with the name getting in the R&R HOF, so they shouldnt be shocked or hurt. They know!

Axl has things...music...songs...albums up his sleeve waiting to be released.

He will come out on top. In the end. And then people will stop talking about the past.

Edited April 4, 2011 by siliconmessiah

[wasted]

Jagger didn't hate Keef tho. Axl seems to hate Slash.

[nambis]

you missed the whole point of the article. Yes, you can buy Chines D in the same section. The point is, that Axl is better with the original. Yes, they lost a drummer and Izzy quit. but the core (axl, slash, and duff) who were/are the faces of the band remained. Look, i am as big a gnr fan as anyone, and got to see the real thing in their biggest days. Trust me, this new band is good, but give me the original or at least the uyi line up any day. I dont recall seeing those albums in $1.00 bargin bin and best buy? Its really sad that they keep saying that they wont get back together. I just see them screwing up the whole rock and roill hall of fame thing. I can see slash and duff there, but i hope Axl gives in and gives the majority of the fans what they really want. Even if its just them playing a few old songs that night. The new band has really nothing to do with the name getting in the R&R HOF, so they shouldnt be shocked or hurt. They know!

I also "got to see the real thing in their biggest days." I've seen the band about 7 or 8 times in total, and IMO the band sounds WAY BETTER these days than they ever did on the UYI tours, when I first saw them. Actually, the band was embarrassingly bad back then, mostly because slash and duff were so inebriated that they couldn't play worth a shit.

Also, it's unfair to compare CD to AFD and UYI and ask why those latter two aren't selling for $1.99. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QUALITY OF THE RECORDS. CD is a great record. the problem is that Best Buy signed a deal where they bought millions of copies, but the problem is that people don't buy compact discs anymore... and so they were left with boatloads of overstock. AFD and UYI on the other hand do not have this problem.

i'm getting so sick of all the haters on here who just want to turn every little event into a giant argument about why GNR sucks... IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE BAND, DON'T FUCKING COME HERE. :fuckyou:

[nambis]

I also saw the "real thing" back in 87, 88, and several times during the UYI tour and the new band may play the songs more precisely but they don't have the mojo the old band had...The post 89 Rolling Stones play the old songs more precisely then the Stones from the late 60's and 70's did but you can't even compare the shows from the 90's and beyond to the old band from the 70's...Precision does not equal better IMHO. If I wanted to hear the songs played like the record I would listen to the record....but if you prefer e NuGnR that is your right as too each his own...

i guess we fundamentally disagree on this point. i remember seeing GNR for the first time with Faith No More and Metallica, and my dad took me because I was 12. I remember him making a comment about how much better Metallica was than GNR, and that GNR was a studio band and couldn't play worth a shit live... That really bothered me as a 12-year-old kid, since GNR was my favorite band, but at the same time I had ears and I knew they didn't sound that great... watching those old performances like the UYI in Tokyo, I don't see at all what you mean by "mojo." those recordings just sound to me like a loose, off-time, not-practiced band.

Edited April 4, 2011 by nambis

[Guest siliconmessiah]

"...the band sounds WAY BETTER these days than they ever did on the UYI tours"

"Actually, the band was embarrassingly bad back then, mostly because slash and duff were so inebriated that they couldn't play worth a shit."

This is exactly how it is. And you can see this by just comparing VR to GNR for example.

I´d take Guns N´ Roses of 2002-2010 over a reunion, everyday.

Edited April 4, 2011 by siliconmessiah

[Count Drugcula]

"...the band sounds WAY BETTER these days than they ever did on the UYI tours"

"Actually, the band was embarrassingly bad back then, mostly because slash and duff were so inebriated that they couldn't play worth a shit."

This is exactly how it is. And you can see this by just comparing VR to GNR for example.

Excerpt that version of the band (Axl/Slash/Duff) was the biggest band in the world and sold out stadiums with ease....and this one struggles to sell out arenas here.

[Guest siliconmessiah]

"...the band sounds WAY BETTER these days than they ever did on the UYI tours"

"Actually, the band was embarrassingly bad back then, mostly because slash and duff were so inebriated that they couldn't play worth a shit."

This is exactly how it is. And you can see this by just comparing VR to GNR for example.

Excerpt that version of the band (Axl/Slash/Duff) was the biggest band in the world and sold out stadiums with ease....and this one struggles to sell out arenas here.

Well...when it comes to selling out, we all know who...*cough* *cough*

Stop living in the past.

Old Guns N Roses is like playing Nintendo 8-bits. In your head, you remember it being so good. And when you pop it in to play in 2011 - you understand that time has passed by and that there are way better games out there.

Edited April 4, 2011 by siliconmessiah

[Count Drugcula]

"...the band sounds WAY BETTER these days than they ever did on the UYI tours"

"Actually, the band was embarrassingly bad back then, mostly because slash and duff were so inebriated that they couldn't play worth a shit."

This is exactly how it is. And you can see this by just comparing VR to GNR for example.

Excerpt that version of the band (Axl/Slash/Duff) was the biggest band in the world and sold out stadiums with ease....and this one struggles to sell out arenas here.

Well...when it comes to selling out, we all know who...*cough* *cough*

Stop living in the past.

Old Guns N Roses is like playing Nintendo 8-bits. In your head, you remember it being so good. And when you pop it in to play in 2011 - you understand that time has passed by and that there are way better games out there.

I prefer Super Nintendo and Sega Genesis to more modern systems.

[WhazUp]

"...the band sounds WAY BETTER these days than they ever did on the UYI tours"

"Actually, the band was embarrassingly bad back then, mostly because slash and duff were so inebriated that they couldn't play worth a shit."

This is exactly how it is. And you can see this by just comparing VR to GNR for example.

Excerpt that version of the band (Axl/Slash/Duff) was the biggest band in the world and sold out stadiums with ease....and this one struggles to sell out arenas here.

Well...when it comes to selling out, we all know who...*cough* *cough*

Stop living in the past.

Old Guns N Roses is like playing Nintendo 8-bits. In your head, you remember it being so good. And when you pop it in to play in 2011 - you understand that time has passed by and that there are way better games out there.

Different people like different things. Some people like the old gnr lineup better, and others like nuguns better. You can't help it if you like one more than the other.

[ShadowOfTheWave]

I read through that book, and came to the conclusion that Keith Richards is an asshole. How is Mick touring stabbing him in the back? It's not. Keith is very Slash like in his bullshit slanting. In the book, he pathetically uses quotations from other people about he and Mick's feud, stop putting that shit out there. Ever heard of privacy? I guess The Rolling Stones non-stop cash grab touring isn't putting enough in his pocket to support his drug habit.

It is obvious from your post you don't know shit about the Stones or their history..You say you read Keef Autobiography but you saw only what you wanted to see without actually understanding what emotions Keef was trying to express ......

Keef and Mick used to be like brothers in their closeness and now are more like an old married couple and if you did read and understand the book you would have realized that Keef is not an asshole nor is he jealous or hate Mick. He is like a spouse who is sad that he and he mate have grown apart and no longer have much in common...Based on what he wrote, and has said in interviews throught the years, he wishes for the days when he and Mick were close again and could hang out together but those days have long passed.

Axl and Slash went though a similar estrangement in the mid 90's with Slash eventually quiting...If you read the old interviews Axl was pissed at Slash for doing Snakepit and actually thought of sueing Slash when he did that project and tour. IMHO Slash, despite his jabs at Axl in the press, also misses the old days when he and Axl were tight and is still hurt by Axl's power grab and how he shut the other old band members out one by one. Go here and read the old interviews I uploaded and you will have a better understanding of what went down with Gun back in the AFD, UYI, and the shit that went down that led to everyone quiting....

http://www.4shared.com/account/dir/2Rv8fW5a/sharing.html?rnd=94

While the circumstances are not exactly identical there are many similarities between the two relationships with only the outcome being different with the Stones still together with 4 equal partners and Axl the only remaining original member of the AFD band..

As far as the Stones doing a money grab they are still touring close to 50 years later with three of the orginal members, are still making original music together, putting on great shows and filling Arenas here in the U.S. which is something Axl can only dream of......

Actually I do know shit about the Stones, and you should keep your fucking assumptions to yourself. I read what Keith said, and guess what? That's between him and Mick, not between him, Mick, and all that people that read his book. Keith made this book for money and press, and included personal shit about his relationship with Mick for money and press, because no one would give a fuck if he didn't.

Keef did the book for money and press huh? Your kidding right? Keef certainly does not need the money which seems like a lot to us but is pocket change compared to what he makes each year from the Stones corporate machine and publishing. He makes millions each year without ever having to step on the stage so I doubt he did it for money. He has been hounded for years to do an autobiography and has said he wanted to do it before he lost his memories.

And if he wanted press all his publicist would have to do is contact any media outlet and say he wanted to do an interview and they would be tripping over each other to talk to him. Keef has no problem getting publicity if he really wanted it he does not need to write a book to do it....Plus there was no publicity tour or book signings by Keef which if he was looking for publicity it would make sense he would want to plug his own book....

Same with Slash if you believe what he said he wrote the book as an emotional release to get his feelings off his chest and close out that portion of his life. If you notice he has been much more postive about a Axl since the book came out.

You don't need to be a code breaker to understand Keefs feelings for Mick. He states very clearly in his book that Mick changed over the years and they grew apart. He said in his own words that he misses the old Mick and the closeness they had. I think Slash is in a similar situation as he and Axl were close when the band was struggling but as soon as they started to make some money they went in seperate directions and Axl distanced himself from the others. I sure the drugs had something to do with that just as it most likley affected Keefs relationship with Mick. Slash has said in more than one interview he is still puzzled as to why Axl did what he did regarding his power grab, as are Izzy and Duff, which he feels broke up the band and much like Keef he seems to miss the old Axl.

I wasn't there but all you have to do is read the books and interviews with and about Keef and Slash and their feelings are pretty clear.....

As far as Keef and Slash making their feelings public, when you do an autobiography certain feelings come out and they chose to express them in their books. Maybe it is the only way they could let Mick and Axl know how they feel and that is their right and whether you feel they should have kept it private is immaterial...as you said this is between the principals........

I'm sure Mick appreciated Keith putting it out there. And since he and Mick are still on speaking terms he wouldn't have to write a fucking book to tell him. Why would he just call up someone to give an interview trashing Mick for shit that went on decades ago? That's what these type of books are for.

[moreblack]

Old Guns N Roses is like playing Nintendo 8-bits. In your head, you remember it being so good. And when you pop it in to play in 2011 - you understand that time has passed by and that there are way better games out there.

Doesn't work that way at all. This is wrong on so many levels...

[Guest siliconmessiah]

Old Guns N Roses is like playing Nintendo 8-bits. In your head, you remember it being so good. And when you pop it in to play in 2011 - you understand that time has passed by and that there are way better games out there.

Doesn't work that way at all. This is wrong on so many levels...

For me it actually does, it´s very simple.

Everytime I see VR or Slash solo doing a show, and listening to what it sounds like - I am glad that Axl moved on from that 90:s sound, and fulfilled his vision of a professional band full of energy, not fucking up the intro chords for WTTJ (for example).

I would rather relive:

Hammerstein -06

Las Vegas -01

or Sweden, Globe arena -06

than

Ritz -88 for example

Edited April 4, 2011 by siliconmessiah

[evergreen_layne]

If you're upset about Axl using the name... don't be. History will judge him harshly (and it already has). He's easily a top ten frontman, but any legitimacy he had being compared to someone like Jagger vanished a long time ago. Frankly, anyone who still believes he'll somehow rebound is insane. In GNR's chapter in music, all this Chinese Democracy stuff will be a few brief sentences preceded by the subtitle: "Where it all went wrong.."

-Kickingthehabit

So true. It amazes me that I'm still drawn to this forum to read the latest gossip about such a strange guy but he did have me going for a while that he could pull it off with Robin and Bucket. These new guys are hard to watch man. DJ takes away a lot of cred that Robin had built up over the years and esp his solo in New Jersey.

[Guest siliconmessiah]

If you're upset about Axl using the name... don't be. History will judge him harshly (and it already has). He's easily a top ten frontman, but any legitimacy he had being compared to someone like Jagger vanished a long time ago. Frankly, anyone who still believes he'll somehow rebound is insane. In GNR's chapter in music, all this Chinese Democracy stuff will be a few brief sentences preceded by the subtitle: "Where it all went wrong.."

-Kickingthehabit

So true. It amazes me that I'm still drawn to this forum to read the latest gossip about such a strange guy but he did have me going for a while that he could pull it off with Robin and Bucket. These new guys are hard to watch man. DJ takes away a lot of cred that Robin had built up over the years and esp his solo in New Jersey.

I might sign on here!

I felt sorry for Robin when he left, but I guess he grew tired of the band not releasing any new material, or something to that effect.

Robin really grew into his role in G&R (along with his beard) and he was the coolest guy. I wish that he could come back.

[SunnyDRE]

"...the band sounds WAY BETTER these days than they ever did on the UYI tours"

"Actually, the band was embarrassingly bad back then, mostly because slash and duff were so inebriated that they couldn't play worth a shit."

This is exactly how it is. And you can see this by just comparing VR to GNR for example.

Excerpt that version of the band (Axl/Slash/Duff) was the biggest band in the world and sold out stadiums with ease....and this one struggles to sell out arenas here.

Well...when it comes to selling out, we all know who...*cough* *cough*

I think keeping the name, and hiring session musicians as replacements for old bands members, kinda trumps anything, we all know who.. *cough* *cough* has ever done.

But that's just me.