Are people too harsh on Axl?

[Apollo]

if the music on cd was good, no one would care about the name.....same way people get pissed that the phantom menace is part of the star wars saga.....

False and true.

False on your first statement. Almost every negative review I've seen...along with almost all the negative comments on this forum...always bring up slash or the name of the band.

And true about phantom. Though......that can be debated as well. It really depends on the age group Lucas was shooting for. I didn't like it, but millions of little kids did. It is hard to make a movie that 40 and 6 year olds like. I grew up on the three originals. But to go back and watch them now? They were pretty cheesy. But I loved them as a kid.

[wasted]

at times he seems like the punch bag of humanity.

[whirlsquirlgirl]

My two cents. You teach others how you want to be treated. For good or bad that is what has happened. The rants ( something about BonJovi springs to mind ), the lateness, etc. Once you have, it is very hard turning over a new leaf. 20 years ago GNR was over over exposed, now they are under exposed. I think it is in some sort of effort for improvement.

As Axl stated in one video intro for the new line up, after introducing the rest of the guys, Axl said something like " And I still haven't figured out who the F--- I am...."

[FuddMckagan]

20% too harsh on him, 80% he brings on himself.

He does get a lot of shit for some incredibly trivial things, but I would say the large majority of the shit that he gets he brought on himself with all of the late starts, no updates etc.

[sailaway]

People tend to dislike what they don't or can't understand,and most people don't like change

Add those facts to the biased media,and the sensationalists,throw in the people that are pissed because Axl does things differently than they unrighteously demand and you have the answer,100% yes!

[WhazUp]

20% too harsh on him, 80% he brings on himself.

He does get a lot of shit for some incredibly trivial things, but I would say the large majority of the shit that he gets he brought on himself with all of the late starts, no updates etc.

I agree with this

He gets a lot of undeserved hate and the media treats him like shit, but he does do a lot of questionable stuff IMO

Edited July 13, 2011 by WhazUp

[sailaway]

20% too harsh on him, 80% he brings on himself.

He does get a lot of shit for some incredibly trivial things, but I would say the large majority of the shit that he gets he brought on himself with all of the late starts, no updates etc.

I agree with this

He gets a lot of undeserved hate and the media treats him like shit, but he does do a lot of questionable stuff IMO

Questionable stuff,or does things differently than you would?

Agree about the undeserved hatred,when he talks it gets shredded to bits,when he doesn't talk that is a point of contention.

It's a no win situation

[WhazUp]

20% too harsh on him, 80% he brings on himself.

He does get a lot of shit for some incredibly trivial things, but I would say the large majority of the shit that he gets he brought on himself with all of the late starts, no updates etc.

I agree with this

He gets a lot of undeserved hate and the media treats him like shit, but he does do a lot of questionable stuff IMO

Questionable stuff,or does things differently than you would?

Agree about the undeserved hatred,when he talks it gets shredded to bits,when he doesn't talk that is a point of contention.

It's a no win situation

Does things differently, which is why I question it. I honestly don't get why he does certain things, the late starts specifically. I know the reasons he gave and the reasons everyone tries to give to validate the late starts but I cannot see the rationality behind any of it.

I love Axl, and I think that he was (and still is) a guy who's image is falsely sculpted by these so-called "journalists". Does he deserve all the hate he gets? Hell no. But he definitely does things that many, many fans question and I myself wonder why he does them because from my perspective these actions are contributing negatively to the band

[Towelie]

I think Axl likes playing up to the "badass" image. He's done whatever the fuck he wanted from day one and nothings changed. I can imagine him sitting at home on the net smirking to himself as he finds out he's a nominee for NME's Villain Of The Year award.

Edited July 13, 2011 by Towelie

[Dazey]

On a side note. I've always wished bands would do two shows in every city. One night would be their classics and concert staples. The other night would be all the songs off of the album they were touring for. And then to make it long enough song-wise they could do a few acoustic versions of their popular songs and a few covers or some of the songs they never play live. GnR could pull out civil war, don't Damn me and estranged the second show.

That would be awesome but without a new record and some promotion they'll struggle to sell out one night per city in anywhere but places like NYC, LA etc.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I think its like this. To be famous you have to be a cunt. I think there's just no getting away from that. You can't really judge people like Axl Rose or John Lennon from your beans on toast level y'know, down here from the pavement cuz...generally speaking they're really quite young people who live in a reality from a fairly young age that isn't like, your working mans reality. We don't get confronted with the sorts of situations they do, the sort of connundrums, the sort of people, we don't have to suss everyone out like they do, work out everyones angle and choose sides and pick the right people who appear to have their interests at heart.

I mean, people like Axl, for better or worse, i mean who was Axl, some wrong 'un with temper problems who, from a young age was lumped with, alright, here's all this fuckin money and shit, deal with it, get it together. What the fuck would you do, do you think you'd have the wherewithal in your early 20s (or even earlier) to be confronted with and made to deal with all this fuckin shit, with lawyers, with legal paperwork and jargon and economics and stuff.

And also, a lot of these people are quite thick. And that ain't an insult, they just ain't fuckin bankers and economists or even well educated folk and they get chucked into like, the dirtiest fuckin business on earth, its a serious fuckin racket y'know, some people don't make it out of that shit alive. I mean there are perfectly grown adults who like, wouldn't know how to deal with that shit. And then they got all these sycophantic cunts telling them they're the best thing since sliced butter, it's bound to go to a lads head.

Now you can go awww diddums and y'know, poor millionaire and all that but its worth considering. In many ways, doing your days graft, paying your mortgage, looking after your kids and wife is probably every bit as monotonous as what they do with the same the degrees of relief. They're generally lads from a very young age that had to fend for themselves. And that makes a cunt out of you. You've GOT to be a cunt to live on the streets, to live like that, you've got to be prepared to step over people, to do people over, to do morally dubious things cuz it's about survival.

Honestly, you don't survive in these situations without being a cunt. John Lennon said it i think, to make it you have to be bastards and we (The Beatles) were bastards. If you're setting off today to be in a band and make it to the big time or some such glorious cliche, quite frankly, you ain't gonna make it unless you're a cunt, you have to have a degree of arrogance to have the bottle to get onstage and act like you're a fuckin geezer and give it and all that, its a hustle, to live and breathe a band, to get out there and get your shit known and heard of, to trump the competition cuz, y'know, nobody wants to be second place here. This is why musical feuds are so commonplace, these guys have probably been doing that shit to some degree between like, bands in a high school or bands playing the same pub and then it just goes higher and higher levels til it's like, chart wars or whatever shit. You've got to be eager, you've got to be that guy who raises his hand first, you've got to be that guy willing to push to get to the front of the queue, you've got to be willing to step on people. Or get left behind.

There's a reason why a lot of bands that are more talented than the bands that make it that don't get their dues cuz they don't or can't or don't know how to play the game. It's something for every bedroom rock n roll fantasist to think about.

Nice boys don't play rock n roll as Shakespeare once wrote.

Also, you got to fancy yourself a bit, haven't you? You've got to like having your photo taken and like or at very least tolerate people asking you incessant question about yourself and sooner or later, if you wanna give them any sort of decent answers you've got to think about yourself a bit and you're half way on the road to being self obssessed already. But it ain't no easy life, i wouldn't fuckin wish for it and most of these people that criticise it, you're everyday shit-on-the-shoes type probably couldn't be able to get up as early as they have to (and they do, make no mistake about that).

So do i think Axl Rose is a cunt? Yes but he's in the business where you have to be. I don't harbour any illusions really, as much as i like to glorify the musicians that i love it's their music that does it for me, it's THAT part of their soul, as people i don't imagine Moonie or Jimi Hendrix or John Lennon or Sid Vicious were these really nice genial sort of people, they weren't, i know they weren't. It's about music for me and not how any of them are as a person or passing judgement on how or when or whether they release an album or what. My relationship with them begins when there's an album i can listen to. Other than that they're just a scatty looking bunch of toerags most of em.

So, do i think Axls a cunt? I don't know, don't know the man, probably, like all of us he has a great deal of cunt in him, we all do, it's just some people get taken to that place where they have to act like a cunt more often. Don't make em worse people than you or anything.

Edited July 13, 2011 by sugaraylen

[Dazey]

False on your first statement. Almost every negative review I've seen...along with almost all the negative comments on this forum...always bring up slash or the name of the band.

In my experience Slash only usually comes into the argument when people accuse anybody criticising Axl or the new band of only doing it because they're a Slash fanboy. It's an extreme case but Miser used to do it all the time and still does elsewhere. It's why do people have to be painted as a fan of one or the other. Any criticism I may level at Axl has nothing to do with anybody but Axl.

As much as I love Slash for what he did in GnR I've not listened to any of his stuff properly since Snake Pit as it really doesn't interest me greatly. As good as he is he really hasn't evolved a great deal since the early 90's and though good at what he does much of it sounds the same to me. I therefore find it a little odd then to be labelled a SFB or Reunionist when in all fairness I'm neither.

I'm a GnR fan past and present and I see nothing wrong with complaining about the various things I see wrong in the current incarnation and Axl's behaviour. I'm more than willing to be positive as and when there's good reason to be but until we see new music or at least some attempt to offer the fans little more than silence there really aren't a lot of positive things to say at this moment in time. I'm looking forward to Rio immensely and I really do hope we get a nice surprise with some new music and a new album announcement but I've been a fan too long to get too excited about things like that.

My only beef is in being accused of being a Slashite by people who think Axl can literally do no wrong! I mean I had Manets telling me yesterday that Chinese Democracy is the greatest album ever written and that Axl “WON” when the power was cut on their performance at Reading Festival last year. That’s the fanboy mentality that annoys a lot of people because it’s just so delusional.

There’s nothing wrong with criticising Axl, Slash, nuGnR or anything about them if there’s good reason so I think some people need to be less eager to label others as cupcakes and Slashites simply because their opinions differ. I was only in my teens when the Illusions came out but I’ve still been a fan for nearly 25 years so I think it’s a little unfair for somebody whose first introduction to the band was CD to tell me I’m not.

I know that sounds patronising and I hate that but I like all lineups and all the records and I think statements like “CD is the best record in the history of recorded music” just makes me think some people haven’t heard enough music or need to broaden their horizons. Don’t get me wrong, I love CD but best album ever? It’s not even in the top 50 and that’s being generous.

[Guest Len B'stard]

False on your first statement. Almost every negative review I've seen...along with almost all the negative comments on this forum...always bring up slash or the name of the band.

In my experience Slash only usually comes into the argument when people accuse anybody criticising Axl or the new band of only doing it because they're a Slash fanboy. It's an extreme case but Miser used to do it all the time and still does elsewhere. It's why do people have to be painted as a fan of one or the other. Any criticism I may level at Axl has nothing to do with anybody but Axl.

As much as I love Slash for what he did in GnR I've not listened to any of his stuff properly since Snake Pit as it really doesn't interest me greatly. As good as he is he really hasn't evolved a great deal since the early 90's and though good at what he does much of it sounds the same to me. I therefore find it a little odd then to be labelled a SFB or Reunionist when in all fairness I'm neither.

I'm a GnR fan past and present and I see nothing wrong with complaining about the various things I see wrong in the current incarnation and Axl's behaviour. I'm more than willing to be positive as and when there's good reason to be but until we see new music or at least some attempt to offer the fans little more than silence there really aren't a lot of positive things to say at this moment in time. I'm looking forward to Rio immensely and I really do hope we get a nice surprise with some new music and a new album announcement but I've been a fan too long to get too excited about things like that.

My only beef is in being accused of being a Slashite by people who think Axl can literally do no wrong! I mean I had Manets telling me yesterday that Chinese Democracy is the greatest album ever written and that Axl “WON” when the power was cut on their performance at Reading Festival last year. That’s the fanboy mentality that annoys a lot of people because it’s just so delusional.

There’s nothing wrong with criticising Axl, Slash, nuGnR or anything about them if there’s good reason so I think some people need to be less eager to label others as cupcakes and Slashites simply because their opinions differ. I was only in my teens when the Illusions came out but I’ve still been a fan for nearly 25 years so I think it’s a little unfair for somebody whose first introduction to the band was CD to tell me I’m not.

I know that sounds patronising and I hate that but I like all lineups and all the records and I think statements like “CD is the best record in the history of recorded music” just makes me think some people haven’t heard enough music or need to broaden their horizons. Don’t get me wrong, I love CD but best album ever? It’s not even in the top 50 and that’s being generous.

Agreed 100%, a lolly for Dazey, please! This Slash and Axl thing, honestly, it's just getting fucking tired now. REALLY tired. And also, its worth thinking about that like, you all float about on this fuckin forum thinking about and stressing about and pissing and moaning about Slash & Axl and their big fuckin feud thats going on.

Question...WHAT fucking feud? They're two people that you don't know from fuckin Adam that have legal issues with each other and other than that, what feud actually is there, substancially speaking? They don't even really mentioned each other much, it's once in a fucking blue moon, last time Axl said anything about Slash was fucking yonks ago as far as i know and the last time Slash said something about Axl was probably the last time a reporter stuck a mic under his nose and asked him something about Axl. Off his own back it was probably yonks ago too.

So what feud is there, really? Fuck all. The only people feuding is you lot. With your witty barbs and clever little digs and back and forths about whoose shit smells the rosiest, Slash or Axl, meanwhile they're making fuckin proper money every day of their life and you shrewders and sitting around typing in capitals at each other...

WHEN OH WHEN WITH THE SLASHITES LEEEEAARRRNNNN or WHY FUCKING COME HERE IF YOU'RE NOT A FAN OF AXL, UR SUCH A TROLLL!!! and honestly, it's just SOO fucking boring. Seriously, most of you lot are fuckin grown men i'm presuming, over 16 years of age, don't you feel fuckin ashamed, ain't you a bit embarassed, don't you feel a bit of a dick, don't you feel like a bit of a tart really, when it's all said and done? Getting all itchy in the scrot' over two perfect strangers and THEIR (note that word) problems, not yours, theirs. And this is from both sides here, Slash and Axl fans, just grow up man, honestly, i ain't exactly life and soul of the fuckin party but honestly if my life had gotten to the point where some of you lots seems to have reached, i'd be reaching for the fucking Wilkinsons.

Honestly, it's like watching a bunch of fuckin menstural tarts fighting over the last Kotex in Boots. Just chill out boys, relax yourself, honestly, you'll live longer, relax, love one another, have yourself a cool drink between posts, look outside your window a bit at the funny shaped clouds, y'know, smile a bit, have a laugh, we won't be here forever y'know...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUE4oDunYkc

Edited July 13, 2011 by sugaraylen

[Dazey]

'm not sure....

Let's say he gives us updates we'll get comments like this from cupcakes and haters:

"Axhole Rose washed up"

"Fat washed up loser" (he's not even fat lol are idiots blind?)

"Guns N' Posers"

"OMFG ITS NOT GNR WITHOUT $La$h"

etc....

So whats the point? I know he posts on twitter but im hoping it's only his fans following him and not haters. The guy is fuckin' human with human feelings.

Anyway the press has shit on Axl since the early 90s nothing will change. People laughed at me for being a GNR fan in 1991 and I still get laughed at in 2011. This is media driven.

Which just goes to show the narrow minded forum mentality of some people. Axl shouldn't bother giving his fans updates because some people on a message board might be mean about him. Have your heard yourself seriously? A couple of hundred active members on a forum might get a little grief from people trolling so Axl should say nothing to his alleged millions of fans? He's a big boy and if he can't take a little shit on the internet he's in the wrong business. Back in 91 the press shit on Axl for persistant late shows and causing riots amongst other things and well he kinda deserved it but they also gave credit where credit was due.

Edited July 13, 2011 by Dazey Does Dallas

[Liquor & Whores]

People tend to dislike what they don't or can't understand,and most people don't like change

Add those facts to the biased media,and the sensationalists,throw in the people that are pissed because Axl does things differently than they unrighteously demand and you have the answer,100% yes!

+1

[Chewbacca]

He deserves shit for not touring where his fans want him to tour, not updating fans regularly, not giving any semblance of an accurate update in relation to album release dates, the arbitrary walk-offs during shows, showing up late for shows for no good reason and many times because he was looking after his own leisure, for behaving in a manner that drove Slash, Izzy and Duff away by leaving the original group to start his own band and also for trying to keep up with the Joneses in terms of musical style in the mid to late 90's - Metallica did it and looked like ass hats only gaining their cred back with Death Magnetic, a thrash metal album.Anything outside the above is harsh.

Bullshit!

[SunnyDRE]

FACT:

People are harsh and critical of Axl because he won't play with Slash!

FACT:

That is not the only reason.

[Apollo]

Oh I cringe too when I read the comments that slash sucks or that CD is the best album ever. And I get so tired of the posters that continually turn every thread into a bash Axl or bash Slash debate.

It sucks how the broke up. But it is their lives and careers. I have way more important things to waste my time on than carrying the Axl or Slash is evil or Axl screwed up the legacy or Axl shouldn't use the name torch. Who cares. Move on.

But yes, it would be a lot easier to do that if Axl would put out more music!!!

[Dazey]

Oh I cringe too when I read the comments that slash sucks or that CD is the best album ever. And I get so tired of the posters that continually turn every thread into a bash Axl or bash Slash debate.

It sucks how the broke up. But it is their lives and careers. I have way more important things to waste my time on than carrying the Axl or Slash is evil or Axl screwed up the legacy or Axl shouldn't use the name torch. Who cares. Move on.

But yes, it would be a lot easier to do that if Axl would put out more music!!!

Great post

[GivenToFly]

And also, a lot of these people are quite thick. And that ain't an insult, they just ain't fuckin bankers and economists or even well educated folk and they get chucked into like, the dirtiest fuckin business on earth, its a serious fuckin racket y'know, some people don't make it out of that shit alive. I mean there are perfectly grown adults who like, wouldn't know how to deal with that shit. And then they got all these sycophantic cunts telling them they're the best thing since sliced butter, it's bound to go to a lads head.

During the chats someone, an aspiring singer, asked Axl for advice. Axl's answer was don't sell out and learn the business, learn law and management and all that.

WHEN OH WHEN WITH THE SLASHITES LEEEEAARRRNNNN or WHY FUCKING COME HERE IF YOU'RE NOT A FAN OF AXL, UR SUCH A TROLLL!!! and honestly, it's just SOO fucking boring. Seriously, most of you lot are fuckin grown men i'm presuming, over 16 years of age, don't you feel fuckin ashamed, ain't you a bit embarassed, don't you feel a bit of a dick, don't you feel like a bit of a tart really, when it's all said and done? Getting all itchy in the scrot' over two perfect strangers and THEIR (note that word) problems, not yours, theirs. And this is from both sides here, Slash and Axl fans, just grow up man, honestly, i ain't exactly life and soul of the fuckin party but honestly if my life had gotten to the point where some of you lots seems to have reached, i'd be reaching for the fucking Wilkinsons.

Honestly, it's like watching a bunch of fuckin menstural tarts fighting over the last Kotex in Boots. Just chill out boys, relax yourself, honestly, you'll live longer, relax, love one another, have yourself a cool drink between posts, look outside your window a bit at the funny shaped clouds, y'know, smile a bit, have a laugh, we won't be here forever y'know...

I don't think the adults out of them (there are some teenagers active in this bullshit maelstrom) take this seriously. It's just their idea of humour. Except that they can't seem to get their heads around the concept of overkill and actually it wasn't funny in the first place.

[wasted]

you have to communicate to have a feud?

[Guest Len B'stard]

And also, a lot of these people are quite thick. And that ain't an insult, they just ain't fuckin bankers and economists or even well educated folk and they get chucked into like, the dirtiest fuckin business on earth, its a serious fuckin racket y'know, some people don't make it out of that shit alive. I mean there are perfectly grown adults who like, wouldn't know how to deal with that shit. And then they got all these sycophantic cunts telling them they're the best thing since sliced butter, it's bound to go to a lads head.

During the chats someone, an aspiring singer, asked Axl for advice. Axl's answer was don't sell out and learn the business, learn law and management and all that.

WHEN OH WHEN WITH THE SLASHITES LEEEEAARRRNNNN or WHY FUCKING COME HERE IF YOU'RE NOT A FAN OF AXL, UR SUCH A TROLLL!!! and honestly, it's just SOO fucking boring. Seriously, most of you lot are fuckin grown men i'm presuming, over 16 years of age, don't you feel fuckin ashamed, ain't you a bit embarassed, don't you feel a bit of a dick, don't you feel like a bit of a tart really, when it's all said and done? Getting all itchy in the scrot' over two perfect strangers and THEIR (note that word) problems, not yours, theirs. And this is from both sides here, Slash and Axl fans, just grow up man, honestly, i ain't exactly life and soul of the fuckin party but honestly if my life had gotten to the point where some of you lots seems to have reached, i'd be reaching for the fucking Wilkinsons.

Honestly, it's like watching a bunch of fuckin menstural tarts fighting over the last Kotex in Boots. Just chill out boys, relax yourself, honestly, you'll live longer, relax, love one another, have yourself a cool drink between posts, look outside your window a bit at the funny shaped clouds, y'know, smile a bit, have a laugh, we won't be here forever y'know...

I don't think the adults out of them (there are some teenagers active in this bullshit maelstrom) take this seriously. It's just their idea of humour. Except that they can't seem to get their heads around the concept of overkill and actually it wasn't funny in the first place.

I think you give em too much credit, i think they're really serious.

[Dazey]

And also, a lot of these people are quite thick. And that ain't an insult, they just ain't fuckin bankers and economists or even well educated folk and they get chucked into like, the dirtiest fuckin business on earth, its a serious fuckin racket y'know, some people don't make it out of that shit alive. I mean there are perfectly grown adults who like, wouldn't know how to deal with that shit. And then they got all these sycophantic cunts telling them they're the best thing since sliced butter, it's bound to go to a lads head.

During the chats someone, an aspiring singer, asked Axl for advice. Axl's answer was don't sell out and learn the business, learn law and management and all that.

WHEN OH WHEN WITH THE SLASHITES LEEEEAARRRNNNN or WHY FUCKING COME HERE IF YOU'RE NOT A FAN OF AXL, UR SUCH A TROLLL!!! and honestly, it's just SOO fucking boring. Seriously, most of you lot are fuckin grown men i'm presuming, over 16 years of age, don't you feel fuckin ashamed, ain't you a bit embarassed, don't you feel a bit of a dick, don't you feel like a bit of a tart really, when it's all said and done? Getting all itchy in the scrot' over two perfect strangers and THEIR (note that word) problems, not yours, theirs. And this is from both sides here, Slash and Axl fans, just grow up man, honestly, i ain't exactly life and soul of the fuckin party but honestly if my life had gotten to the point where some of you lots seems to have reached, i'd be reaching for the fucking Wilkinsons.

Honestly, it's like watching a bunch of fuckin menstural tarts fighting over the last Kotex in Boots. Just chill out boys, relax yourself, honestly, you'll live longer, relax, love one another, have yourself a cool drink between posts, look outside your window a bit at the funny shaped clouds, y'know, smile a bit, have a laugh, we won't be here forever y'know...

I don't think the adults out of them (there are some teenagers active in this bullshit maelstrom) take this seriously. It's just their idea of humour. Except that they can't seem to get their heads around the concept of overkill and actually it wasn't funny in the first place.

I think you give em too much credit, i think they're really serious.

This ^^^^^^ If you think Volcano's only doing it for the lolz he had me fooled!

[Young_Gun]

No, I do not believe people are too harsh on Axl. The late starts, TOTAL lack of communication and refusal to admit fault are reasons why people are harsh on him. They are harsh because Axl is difficult, not the other way around, Axl happened first, then the fans, not the other way around. Now people will say "oh but Axl will be Axl", yeah and an egg is an egg, does that negate or take away from the fact that Axl can be a dick at times? NO.

[sailaway]

No, I do not believe people are too harsh on Axl. The late starts, TOTAL lack of communication and refusal to admit fault are reasons why people are harsh on him. They are harsh because Axl is difficult, not the other way around, Axl happened first, then the fans, not the other way around. Now people will say "oh but Axl will be Axl", yeah and an egg is an egg, does that negate or take away from the fact that Axl can be a dick at times? NO.

Oh give it a rest, GNR has never operated like any other band,hope they never do. When I am in attendance at a GNR concert,I'm honestly not anal about time because I don't care when it starts,and generally am going to be up all night anyway.

And actually in several posts I have gone for sarcastic overkill because a select group of people take this way the fuck too seriously,and others are plotting to punk the threads here for their own amusement. This is a fan forum,chill out. When you are at a concert you aren't on a timeclock,kick back and have a good time.This shit gets entirely too insane