Hostility Over The Band Name

[moreblack]

I LOVE how del norte comes here with an actual great written post...and all you people can come up with are mindless rants of "cupcake", and "meanie" and bullshit about how axl is this all mighty being when it comes to gnr. That's how sad and utterly pathetic axl fan boys are. And let me be clear. NOT nu gun fans. NOT people who like chinese democracy. And NOT people who even for some reason prefer this band over the classic band. But the people who blindly follow axl, and just spit out the most stupid bullshit, instead of an actual rebuttal when it comes to his strange and baffling behavior. Its wrong to think that a manic depressive person and someone who was possibly raped, behaves so strangely because of it? Or someone that believes in sucha oddball thing like past life therapy MIGHT be a little off? (And don't give me that "its a belief" crap, there's a difference between believing IN Jesus and believing that YOU ARE Jesus, wouldn't you say?). Whenever someone like me and del norte come up with a good, reasonable and respectful post, you all spit out some stupid cop out an run for the door. What's that really say about axls behavior?

it's this place, it does something to people.

[The Wicked Hand]

They get so mad and yell cupcake and reunionist and GTFO, u mad bro? etc.

This is because they have no reasonable rebuttle. You cannot defend Axls actions with logical debate, so you turn to cupcake comments and insults.

I sure wish all posters would respect others opinions. Im not loosin any sleep over it.

But it seems like a simple solution to the BS that infests this forum , it seems.

[saber_]

I love how this forum is being taken over by people who registered 3 months ago. It's weird how these new names keep popping up, but the premise of their posts remains constant. Hell it could be one motherfucker. I'm picturing the girl from catfish.

[Midnight Rambler]

Said it before, i think kinda axl shot himself in the foot by keeping the name. If he hadnt hed be held in high regard, imo, amongst a lot of folk, like - axl rose? That guy? Yeah he was amazing back in his day, dangerous, crazy, everything a rock star should be, just kinda walked away from stadom etc i think would be the popular opinion of him. Because i mean he has kinda taken the high road, its just the name thing that keeps fuckin him. Anyway it is what it is.

[Guest Len B'stard]

When Axl first came back for the House Of Blues show and more so when he did the grand unveiling at Rio in '01 the tension in the media over the band name was truly overwhelming. The tour in 2002 and the VMA performance (however good or bad it was) were when it came to a fever pitch. This was probably because it was America's first real taste of Guns in this incarnation, and it was a lot different then what they had seen last time. I have a few questions about this time period that would be interesting to see what you guys thought, and since we are in countdown mode till Rio, why not?

1. I personally like the VMA performance after the opening part with Jungle. Madagascar sounded in top form and PC was more then passable. Regardless of what the internet and majority of radio DJ's said it was a special night for us and the fans in the building that night and if you watch the crowd there is no denying that. However the negative media coverage of that and the cancellations of the tour that year really turned theI hostility over Axl using the band name up to levels that we had never seen before. Do you think if the VMAs and the 2002 Tour would of went off without a hitch that Axl wouldn't of been hit so hard for touring under the GNR name with only one other "classic" member?

2. In 2006 you had the leaks which silenced a lot of people, I remember magazines giving "positive" reviews and even places like Metal-Sludge being stunned at the quality of the tracks. Then the 2006-2007 tour went off and Axl's voice was better, he seemed in great shape and the band was tight as fuck even with a brand new lead guitar player. It seemed like the more shows they got under their belt without incident the less the American media seemed to rip on him for keeping the Guns name. At this point do you think that the media heard the strength of the demos and saw the power of the live show and said "wow the guy might really do it" ? If you think back to that time, and don't count the message boards because there will ALWAYS be a debate as to if this is "GNR" or not, the media barley covered the fact that this wasn't the "real guns" and they were more interested in when the album would come out. Did 2006-2007 sway popular opinion on his right to perform under the name?

3. It seems like out of the classic bands Beatles, Stones, Floyd, Led Zep, Sabbath, all the real top tier bands from the time were English. You had Aerosmith The Eagles, to a lesser extent you had Kiss and i know most of the hair bands from the time were from America. But out of those 80's American rock bands who other then Guns really comes close to that classic list of English artists. Axl tours Europe, South America, Asia, hell even Canada and theirs never any problem as to who is going to be on stage under that name. Again other then the message boards. Do you feel that America holds GNR in a special place because it could of been one of those absolute classic bands but couldn't hold it together long enough to reach that level? Is that the reason that the Dj's and the American press were so hostile at first to Axl going out without the other guys?

and finally

4. Before Axl posted here I will admit I didn't have a problem with him going out as Guns, but I always thought it was a cheap way to of gotten the name. When he posted here it cleared up a ton. I like many were always lead to believe the Slash and Duff story that they had signed it away in order to put on a gig. After reading Axl's thoughts that night and hearing his side it made total sense. We had not only been lied to but the man had been dragged through the mud and run over every time any one reported the original story. His postings here, however late they came and after however much damage he had already sustained really shined a light on Slash and Duff's claim. Did Axl's "Homework Assignment" legitimize his claim to the Guns N' Roses name?

It's Simply:

AXL Is producer, frontman, compositor, founder, creator Of GUNS N' ROSES, original Line Up: TRACII, ROB, OLE, IZZY.

AXL No Interview In Newspaper, radio or TV. He not is mediatic, then... press Inventions, manipulations support whit ex.members whit 1 In Special.

The Truth Is Out There ---> GUNS N' ROSES ARE BACK IN YOUR ASS...

Dedicated To

cupcakes N' LOSERS

Double that thought!!!Nice post man

My World Is Real... Other People Is In Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

our survey says.....

WANKERRRRR

[uzi your illusion]

I've been reading this forum since something like 2002 and for the longest time was really hesitant to sign up and contribute. The whole MSL thing this Winter got me to finally sign up, regardless of how fake that turned out I was now a member. I never wanted to post because it seemed like the only topics to really garner any responses were the ones that turned into Slash vs. Axl, and at this point really who wants to read any more of that. When i posted the four questions earlier I thought it might kill some time till Rio and maybe even stir up some fun debate. I thought there was a chance it would turn into this kinda thread but really hoped it wouldn't. Hell I honestly thought it would just be a little bit of fun, but the fact of the matter is that more times then not when someone gives there answer instead of a well thought out rebuttle they just get bashed to no end. Whatever side your on, Axl's or the older guys, is there really no way to have a civilized debate without someone having to call names? We should be better then that, and since the thread has become so far from what I intended it to be, it would be great if the MODS just deleted the whole thing. It's become the thing that made me hesitant to even register at all.

[Cosmo]

I love how this forum is being taken over by people who registered 3 months ago. It's weird how these new names keep popping up, but the premise of their posts remains constant. Hell it could be one motherfucker. I'm picturing the girl from catfish.

I know you're probably not talking about me, since I didn't post in this topic yet but... having registered before other people doesn't make you a bigger fan, doesn't mean you have more knowledge about the band than people who came after you, it doesn't mean squat... Actually, come to think of it about 70% of the biggest a-holes of this forum are long time registered members. Those are usually the ones that try to spread their "Be Negative" campaign over the GnR fanbase here. I agree, sometimes NuGnR fans are blind to see the obvious flaws and errors of the new band, and sometimes treat the old band without the respect they deserve, and the gigantic contribution (by gigantic I mean essential, enormous) they gave to GnR.

I kinda find it hard to see how bashing the opposite opinion of the band can make your vision any superior than the others, but 90% of the people here like to do that (from 'both' sides)... but anyway, they usually have a much healthier view of things than NuGnR haters, who like to take the itsy-bitsy-tiny hopes and expectations NuGnR fans still have for no reason other than "If I'm not happy, you're not happy". I could point out usernames of many 'Frontman', 'Demi-God' or whatever "high rank" users have no active role in this section other than being a pain in the ass. Live and let live, people.

[Nintari]

I love how this forum is being taken over by people who registered 3 months ago. It's weird how these new names keep popping up, but the premise of their posts remains constant. Hell it could be one motherfucker. I'm picturing the girl from catfish.

I know for an absolute FACT that there is 1-3 people posting as 20. I won't mention the message board here because it's free publicity but in it, certain people openly gloat about doing it and encourage others to do the same. So your little hunch is definitely correct.

[WhazUp]

When Axl first came back for the House Of Blues show and more so when he did the grand unveiling at Rio in '01 the tension in the media over the band name was truly overwhelming. The tour in 2002 and the VMA performance (however good or bad it was) were when it came to a fever pitch. This was probably because it was America's first real taste of Guns in this incarnation, and it was a lot different then what they had seen last time. I have a few questions about this time period that would be interesting to see what you guys thought, and since we are in countdown mode till Rio, why not?

1. I personally like the VMA performance after the opening part with Jungle. Madagascar sounded in top form and PC was more then passable. Regardless of what the internet and majority of radio DJ's said it was a special night for us and the fans in the building that night and if you watch the crowd there is no denying that. However the negative media coverage of that and the cancellations of the tour that year really turned the hostility over Axl using the band name up to levels that we had never seen before. Do you think if the VMAs and the 2002 Tour would of went off without a hitch that Axl wouldn't of been hit so hard for touring under the GNR name with only one other "classic" member?

2. In 2006 you had the leaks which silenced a lot of people, I remember magazines giving "positive" reviews and even places like Metal-Sludge being stunned at the quality of the tracks. Then the 2006-2007 tour went off and Axl's voice was better, he seemed in great shape and the band was tight as fuck even with a brand new lead guitar player. It seemed like the more shows they got under their belt without incident the less the American media seemed to rip on him for keeping the Guns name. At this point do you think that the media heard the strength of the demos and saw the power of the live show and said "wow the guy might really do it" ? If you think back to that time, and don't count the message boards because there will ALWAYS be a debate as to if this is "GNR" or not, the media barley covered the fact that this wasn't the "real guns" and they were more interested in when the album would come out. Did 2006-2007 sway popular opinion on his right to perform under the name?

3. It seems like out of the classic bands Beatles, Stones, Floyd, Led Zep, Sabbath, all the real top tier bands from the time were English. You had Aerosmith The Eagles, to a lesser extent you had Kiss and i know most of the hair bands from the time were from America. But out of those 80's American rock bands who other then Guns really comes close to that classic list of English artists. Axl tours Europe, South America, Asia, hell even Canada and theirs never any problem as to who is going to be on stage under that name. Again other then the message boards. Do you feel that America holds GNR in a special place because it could of been one of those absolute classic bands but couldn't hold it together long enough to reach that level? Is that the reason that the Dj's and the American press were so hostile at first to Axl going out without the other guys?

and finally

4. Before Axl posted here I will admit I didn't have a problem with him going out as Guns, but I always thought it was a cheap way to of gotten the name. When he posted here it cleared up a ton. I like many were always lead to believe the Slash and Duff story that they had signed it away in order to put on a gig. After reading Axl's thoughts that night and hearing his side it made total sense. We had not only been lied to but the man had been dragged through the mud and run over every time any one reported the original story. His postings here, however late they came and after however much damage he had already sustained really shined a light on Slash and Duff's claim. Did Axl's "Homework Assignment" legitimize his claim to the Guns N' Roses name?

It's Simply:

AXL Is producer, frontman, compositor, founder, creator Of GUNS N' ROSES, original Line Up: TRACII, ROB, OLE, IZZY.

AXL No Interview In Newspaper, radio or TV. He not is mediatic, then... press Inventions, manipulations support whit ex.members whit 1 In Special.

The Truth Is Out There ---> GUNS N' ROSES ARE BACK IN YOUR ASS...

Dedicated To

cupcakes N' LOSERS

It's posts like this one that are driving posters away from this site.

+1

[Cosmo]

I love how this forum is being taken over by people who registered 3 months ago. It's weird how these new names keep popping up, but the premise of their posts remains constant. Hell it could be one motherfucker. I'm picturing the girl from catfish.

I know for an absolute FACT that there is 1-3 people posting as 20. I won't mention the message board here because it's free publicity but in it, certain people openly gloat about doing it and encourage others to do the same. So your little hunch is definitely correct.

Well, that's relatively easy to find out... forum mods/admin just need to see the IP Address from these people they suspect.

[mrandyk]

People who have to resort to the original lineup having Ole, Rob, and Tracii argument are either terrible cupcakes or really dumb. Those guys were in the band for 2 or 3 shows, Guns didn't even start until Slash and Duff showed up. Steven Tyler and Joe Perry did a show with Guns back in the 90s, I suppose they are former members too?

[Cosmo]

People who have to resort to the original lineup having Ole, Rob, and Tracii argument are either terrible cupcakes or really dumb. Those guys were in the band for 2 or 3 shows, Guns didn't even start until Slash and Duff showed up. Steven Tyler and Joe Perry did a show with Guns back in the 90s, I suppose they are former members too?

haha and so is Zakk Wylde... You should know that too...

[moreblack]

People who have to resort to the original lineup having Ole, Rob, and Tracii argument are either terrible cupcakes or really dumb. Those guys were in the band for 2 or 3 shows, Guns didn't even start until Slash and Duff showed up. Steven Tyler and Joe Perry did a show with Guns back in the 90s, I suppose they are former members too?

And Dave Navarro

[Apollo]

About as dumb or trolling as people who can't get past the old line-up. People that can't get past a line-up that hasn't put out an album or original songs in 20 years.

Slash and Duff and Izzy have accepted Axl keeping the name .....but a couple posters on here are still furious about it. Twenty years later.

Bono and Norte and the other slash fan boys.....why do you care so much about what complete strangers think? Some stranger on a forum likes the new line-up and supports Axl- why does that make you soooo mad? If Duff and Izzy can get on stage with the new band....then maybe you guys shouldn't still be so angry about Axl.

[saber_]

I love how this forum is being taken over by people who registered 3 months ago. It's weird how these new names keep popping up, but the premise of their posts remains constant. Hell it could be one motherfucker. I'm picturing the girl from catfish.

I know you're probably not talking about me, since I didn't post in this topic yet but... having registered before other people doesn't make you a bigger fan, doesn't mean you have more knowledge about the band than people who came after you, it doesn't mean squat... Actually, come to think of it about 70% of the biggest a-holes of this forum are long time registered members. Those are usually the ones that try to spread their "Be Negative" campaign over the GnR fanbase here. I agree, sometimes NuGnR fans are blind to see the obvious flaws and errors of the new band, and sometimes treat the old band without the respect they deserve, and the gigantic contribution (by gigantic I mean essential, enormous) they gave to GnR.

I kinda find it hard to see how bashing the opposite opinion of the band can make your vision any superior than the others, but 90% of the people here like to do that (from 'both' sides)... but anyway, they usually have a much healthier view of things than NuGnR haters, who like to take the itsy-bitsy-tiny hopes and expectations NuGnR fans still have for no reason other than "If I'm not happy, you're not happy". I could point out usernames of many 'Frontman', 'Demi-God' or whatever "high rank" users have no active role in this section other than being a pain in the ass. Live and let live, people.

You miss my point entirely. I'm not quite sure how you interpreted my post in any way other than its obvious literal (and in my opinion very clear) meaning, but alas, I would be remiss if I didn't respond to your errant accusations. Nowhere did I equate registration date with street cred as a gnr fan. Some asshole called me a noob on here once and then used that dock me points as a gnr fan- I politely reminded him that I bought Lies and UYI on release day. Ok so maybe not so politely.

Furthermore, I never delved into any demographic other than this seemingly endless influx of "new" users who I am asserting are actually not new at all. Which adds even more irony to your little opening paragraph rant.

FINALLY, let me once again reiterate that my post is directly aimed at most new users who come in here, and have a ton of knowledge of the goings on here. Beyond that, a lot of these user accounts have similar syntactic posting styles. On other gnr forums, they openly post little contests with not-so-cleverly named "operations" which are solely intended to meta-cupcake this site. It's pathetic really.

If you are truly a new user, good for you, welcome to the forums.

One thing you should know about me, I do not tolerate when people make disparaging comments which aren't true. Notice I said "which aren't true." If people wanna bitch about Axl being late, or Axl having an ego, or his way of working, or his venomousness, or his use of the band name, or the old days, or whatever, fine, so be it. But there is a way to articulate observations or criticisms of Axl and/or the band. Consequently, when people get shitty, and/or cupcake constantly, I let loose and unleash rage their way. And I will also continue to call people out when they take one little morsel of info, and either extrapolate from it wildly, or openly envelop it in lies. This is not counting all the know-it-all psychics around here.

One thing to keep in mind- if some of these people are so unhappy with the band, why do they come here? That is a pertinent point that cannot be spun. Part of this is related to how the forums are divided. And the reason *some* people don't want to post in the pre-94 gnr forum is because it's not as busy as this one.

Anyway, read my first post again. I'm still sort of incredulous as to where you came up with all that interpretative nonsense. Don't extrapolate wildly. Ok I just like the word extrapolate. carry on

[Cosmo]

I love how this forum is being taken over by people who registered 3 months ago. It's weird how these new names keep popping up, but the premise of their posts remains constant. Hell it could be one motherfucker. I'm picturing the girl from catfish.

I know you're probably not talking about me, since I didn't post in this topic yet but... having registered before other people doesn't make you a bigger fan, doesn't mean you have more knowledge about the band than people who came after you, it doesn't mean squat... Actually, come to think of it about 70% of the biggest a-holes of this forum are long time registered members. Those are usually the ones that try to spread their "Be Negative" campaign over the GnR fanbase here. I agree, sometimes NuGnR fans are blind to see the obvious flaws and errors of the new band, and sometimes treat the old band without the respect they deserve, and the gigantic contribution (by gigantic I mean essential, enormous) they gave to GnR.

I kinda find it hard to see how bashing the opposite opinion of the band can make your vision any superior than the others, but 90% of the people here like to do that (from 'both' sides)... but anyway, they usually have a much healthier view of things than NuGnR haters, who like to take the itsy-bitsy-tiny hopes and expectations NuGnR fans still have for no reason other than "If I'm not happy, you're not happy". I could point out usernames of many 'Frontman', 'Demi-God' or whatever "high rank" users have no active role in this section other than being a pain in the ass. Live and let live, people.

You miss my point entirely. I'm not quite sure how you interpreted my post in any way other than its obvious literal (and in my opinion very clear) meaning, but alas, I would be remiss if I didn't respond to your errant accusations. Nowhere did I equate registration date with street cred as a gnr fan. Some asshole called me a noob on here once and then used that dock me points as a gnr fan- I politely reminded him that I bought Lies and UYI on release day. Ok so maybe not so politely.

Furthermore, I never delved into any demographic other than this seemingly endless influx of "new" users who I am asserting are actually not new at all. Which adds even more irony to your little opening paragraph rant.

FINALLY, let me once again reiterate that my post is directly aimed at most new users who come in here, and have a ton of knowledge of the goings on here. Beyond that, a lot of these user accounts have similar syntactic posting styles. On other gnr forums, they openly post little contests with not-so-cleverly named "operations" which are solely intended to meta-cupcake this site. It's pathetic really.

If you are truly a new user, good for you, welcome to the forums.

One thing you should know about me, I do not tolerate when people make disparaging comments which aren't true. Notice I said "which aren't true." If people wanna bitch about Axl being late, or Axl having an ego, or his way of working, or his venomousness, or his use of the band name, or the old days, or whatever, fine, so be it. But there is a way to articulate observations or criticisms of Axl and/or the band. Consequently, when people get shitty, and/or cupcake constantly, I let loose and unleash rage their way. And I will also continue to call people out when they take one little morsel of info, and either extrapolate from it wildly, or openly envelop it in lies. This is not counting all the know-it-all psychics around here.

One thing to keep in mind- if some of these people are so unhappy with the band, why do they come here? That is a pertinent point that cannot be spun. Part of this is related to how the forums are divided. And the reason *some* people don't want to post in the pre-94 gnr forum is because it's not as busy as this one.

Anyway, read my first post again. I'm still sort of incredulous as to where you came up with all that interpretative nonsense. Don't extrapolate wildly. Ok I just like the word extrapolate. carry on

I see what you meant now. You are right, I kinda interpreted it in another way.

[Apollo]

About as dumb or trolling as people who can't get past the old line-up. People that can't get past a line-up that hasn't put out an album or original songs in 20 years.

Slash and Duff and Izzy have accepted Axl keeping the name .....but a couple posters on here are still furious about it. Twenty years later.

Bono and Norte and the other slash fan boys.....why do you care so much about what complete strangers think? Some stranger on a forum likes the new line-up and supports Axl- why does that make you soooo mad? If Duff and Izzy can get on stage with the new band....then maybe you guys shouldn't still be so angry about Axl.

Everytime I answer you, or volcano, or the axl fanboys, you run for the door just to post your same mindless crap somewhere else. Look through this thread. I answer this question everytime, and you run away. Don't feel like typing everything I said yet again.

You take yourself and your GnR opinions way to seriously. Yes bobo. We "run away" every time you post your thoughts on here. And guess what? "Mindless crap" is how I describe your constant Axl bashing on here as well.

Bottom line. You are a fan by choice. You come to this forum by choice. You like to follow a singer that you think is the devil. I come here because I'm an Axl fan. It is really that simple.

We get it. You and a couple posters here blame Axl for ruining your favorite band. And you are still mad about it, 20 years later. A girl named Lexie broke my heart in junior high.....it still makes me mad, but I don't live on her Facebook page 20 years later making negative comments about her. I don't feel it is my job to educate her friends as to what kind of person that I feel she really is.

Oh, and I wasn't "running away" from you the last week. I took a vacation. Saw some glaciers, grizzly bears, caught some salmon, rode horses....had a great time. See Bobo, that's what life is all about. Enjoying yourself.

You can accept the past and move on.(I didn't say u had to like it). Or u can dwell over a singer.

[Apollo]

Actually I don't post as much as I used to. The forum used to be a whole lot more enjoyable when there weren't so many slash fan boys dominating every topic in here with their negativity.

So my posts bother you....but your cool with the guys who post the SAME negative crap in every post. Hhmm. Interesting how that works.

Bobo and a couple of these guys are complete clowns. It is funny to get them all riled up. But I seriously expect more from you. I've read your posts in other topics and sections and all though I disagree with a lot of your opinions- your iq is probably 20-25 points higher than most of the anti-Axl posters in here.

I understand you love slash and the old band. And that your mad Axl kept the name. But seriously.......what is the point of going to a GnR forum just to bash Axl? Anybody who spends more time in a forum bashing a singer they don't like than they spend chatting in a forum of a singer that they do like.....I just literally cannot comprehend that.

I loved guy peace in Memento. But he is terrible in almost every other movie. I can't imagine going to his forum just to bash him. Daily. It just makes no sense to me.

As intelligent and as passionate as you are - I would think you would understand this.

Life is simple. Don't like what Axl has done? Understandable. So spend your free time in forums of singers that you enjoy.

And again. I'm pretty sure I have already told you this before. I've never once said u have to worship everything Axl does. Ever. I've criticized things he has done plenty of times. In fact, during the last tour a few people in here were calling me an Axl-hater because I was ripping him about the late start times.

So I will stop posting the same stuff over and over....as soon as you and bobo and Norte and all the slash fan boys stop posting the same negative crap in EVERY topic.

[Lines&Noses]

Actually I don't post as much as I used to. The forum used to be a whole lot more enjoyable when there weren't so many slash fan boys dominating every topic in here with their negativity.

So my posts bother you....but your cool with the guys who post the SAME negative crap in every post. Hhmm. Interesting how that works.

Bobo and a couple of these guys are complete clowns. It is funny to get them all riled up. But I seriously expect more from you. I've read your posts in other topics and sections and all though I disagree with a lot of your opinions- your iq is probably 20-25 points higher than most of the anti-Axl posters in here.

I understand you love slash and the old band. And that your mad Axl kept the name. But seriously.......what is the point of going to a GnR forum just to bash Axl? Anybody who spends more time in a forum bashing a singer they don't like than they spend chatting in a forum of a singer that they do like.....I just literally cannot comprehend that.

I loved guy peace in Memento. But he is terrible in almost every other movie. I can't imagine going to his forum just to bash him. Daily. It just makes no sense to me.

As intelligent and as passionate as you are - I would think you would understand this.

Life is simple. Don't like what Axl has done? Understandable. So spend your free time in forums of singers that you enjoy.

And again. I'm pretty sure I have already told you this before. I've never once said u have to worship everything Axl does. Ever. I've criticized things he has done plenty of times. In fact, during the last tour a few people in here were calling me an Axl-hater because I was ripping him about the late start times.

So I will stop posting the same stuff over and over....as soon as you and bobo and Norte and all the slash fan boys stop posting the same negative crap in EVERY topic.

See that is part of the problem Groghan is you generalize that anyone who criticizes Axl blindly loves Slash, desperately wants a reunion, is mad that Axl kept the name etc...If you actually read my posts you would understand that many of us are not looking for all these things.. I don't care about a reunoin as I have seen the real Guns back in the day, admit that Slash is not perfect, accept the fact that Axl owns the Guns name and think it was a smart business move to continue to use it even if I don't think NuGuns is the real thing anymore, etc...

Fan like myself, SiliconMessiah, Bobbo, Del Norte and even Sunny Dre are Guns fans but we crticize where we feel it is justified and in my case I jump into threads when I see people rewriting history to try to make Axl look like some innocent victim..I have never trolled threads just to stir the shit and have never called Axl names, other than I think he can be an asshole, or said ChiDem sucks etc just to get people worked up....

I gained a new appreciattion for Mindsaber after reading his recent post and actually have similar views except from the other side of the coin. I thought his summary of his views was excellent

One thing you should know about me, I do not tolerate when people make disparaging comments which aren't true. Notice I said "which aren't true." If people wanna bitch about Axl being late, or Axl having an ego, or his way of working, or his venomousness, or his use of the band name, or the old days, or whatever, fine, so be it. But there is a way to articulate observations or criticisms of Axl and/or the band. Consequently, when people get shitty, and/or cupcake constantly, I let loose and unleash rage their way. And I will also continue to call people out when they take one little morsel of info, and either extrapolate from it wildly, or openly envelop it in lies. This is not counting all the know-it-all psychics around here.

I don't happen to agree with many of his opinions but I can respect his willingness to accept other members opinions which differ from his as long as he does not think they are just trolling for reaction.......

You could learn a thing or two from Mindsaber in that not everyone who criticizes Axl and NuGuns are cupcakes and that instead of continually whining about people who do criticize Axl/NuGuns why not try offering a counterpoint...

There will always be cupcakes on both sides who are happy to just start shit but there is also a small group of real fans on both sides of the fence who are willing to debate things in a mature intelligent manner...You seem to be one of the smart ones mate you should try joining the debates sometime..........

Well if nothing else the quality of debate round here is certainly improving nice to see.

Part of me is glad Axl kept the name/band going, I still love watching him perform, especially the AFD and UYI material.

My only real issue with Axl keeping the name is not so much that the band no longer features the rest of the AFD line up (my personal favourite) but it's that he took the music in a completely different direction?

He said in the chats that the music on Chi Dem would probably have sounded very different if it were not released under the GnR name, but if he really wanted to produce a record that sat comfortably in the rest of the GnR cannon I don't think he succeeded?

To me a GnR record should primarily be a rock record featuring some great guitar riffs (and they don't have to be produced by Slash/Izzy). Axl also responded when asked why there were so many ballads on chi dem: that you can't force the music. Well I think this is true but he spent 10 years trying to produce an industrial album rather than just letting the music evolve naturally?

On the subject of names: I sometimes ask myself would I feel differently about Chi Dem if it was released as an Axl solo record rather than a GnR record. I really don't think it would make a difference to me personally. I also try to think what it would be like if it was produced by a band I had never heard of before, again I'm not sure the outcome would have been so different for me personally but I would probably not have listened to it quite so much trying to "get it". There are four songs I like and I don;t think that number is going to increase for me.

I will always love Axl and will of course listen to Chi Dem II. I just hope if offers more up tempo tracks and perhaps marks a move towards the classic guns sound. The fact that DJ ashba is on board is a hark back to their LA glam roots so maybe it will?

[Guest siliconmessiah]

Great post overall Classicrawker. Well thought out and I totally agree with what you say.

We are fans, but we have to be able to use the free speech to get our opinion out.

There was a lot of cool buzz and homepage updates during the release of Chinese Democracy three years ago.

But the arrogant silence and a never ending AFD/Chinese Democracy tour isn´t what we fans waited for.

Edited August 5, 2011 by siliconmessiah

[Nintari]

I love how this forum is being taken over by people who registered 3 months ago. It's weird how these new names keep popping up, but the premise of their posts remains constant. Hell it could be one motherfucker. I'm picturing the girl from catfish.

I know for an absolute FACT that there is 1-3 people posting as 20. I won't mention the message board here because it's free publicity but in it, certain people openly gloat about doing it and encourage others to do the same. So your little hunch is definitely correct.

Well, that's relatively easy to find out... forum mods/admin just need to see the IP Address from these people they suspect.

Won't matter because they're using an IP blocker/changer lol. Sad bunch of people.

[LTD]

Yes it has died down a touch. just like GNR-related discussion in general. Fan communities of Internet hate,love and need to to be able to wait for something big. This sadistic pleasure of waiting combined with a stream of brand new fans is what keeps a community fresh and breathing. There's nothing exiting enough to look forward to and GNR isn't exactly harvesting crops of new fans. So world as we know it is steadily withering away and turning into a tired, worn gray zombie D;

Edited August 6, 2011 by LTD

[sailaway]

Yes it has died down a touch. just like GNR-related discussion in general. Fan communities of Internet hate,love and need to to be able to wait for something big. This sadistic pleasure of waiting combined with a stream of brand new fans is what keeps a community fresh and breathing. There's nothing exiting enough to look forward to and GNR isn't exactly harvesting crops of new fans. So world as we know it is steadily withering away and turning into a tired, worn gray zombie D;

Nothing to look forward to? Really? How about RIR,and the other dates being scheduled. How about the fact that GNR has over

11 million followers on fb,and update tweets about what they ate up to. The twats should return to the clown forum,there is lots to look forward if you aren't a hater.

[hbkhbk]

When Axl first came back for the House Of Blues show and more so when he did the grand unveiling at Rio in '01 the tension in the media over the band name was truly overwhelming. The tour in 2002 and the VMA performance (however good or bad it was) were when it came to a fever pitch. This was probably because it was America's first real taste of Guns in this incarnation, and it was a lot different then what they had seen last time. I have a few questions about this time period that would be interesting to see what you guys thought, and since we are in countdown mode till Rio, why not?

1. I personally like the VMA performance after the opening part with Jungle. Madagascar sounded in top form and PC was more then passable. Regardless of what the internet and majority of radio DJ's said it was a special night for us and the fans in the building that night and if you watch the crowd there is no denying that. However the negative media coverage of that and the cancellations of the tour that year really turned the hostility over Axl using the band name up to levels that we had never seen before. Do you think if the VMAs and the 2002 Tour would of went off without a hitch that Axl wouldn't of been hit so hard for touring under the GNR name with only one other "classic" member?

2. In 2006 you had the leaks which silenced a lot of people, I remember magazines giving "positive" reviews and even places like Metal-Sludge being stunned at the quality of the tracks. Then the 2006-2007 tour went off and Axl's voice was better, he seemed in great shape and the band was tight as fuck even with a brand new lead guitar player. It seemed like the more shows they got under their belt without incident the less the American media seemed to rip on him for keeping the Guns name. At this point do you think that the media heard the strength of the demos and saw the power of the live show and said "wow the guy might really do it" ? If you think back to that time, and don't count the message boards because there will ALWAYS be a debate as to if this is "GNR" or not, the media barley covered the fact that this wasn't the "real guns" and they were more interested in when the album would come out. Did 2006-2007 sway popular opinion on his right to perform under the name?

3. It seems like out of the classic bands Beatles, Stones, Floyd, Led Zep, Sabbath, all the real top tier bands from the time were English. You had Aerosmith The Eagles, to a lesser extent you had Kiss and i know most of the hair bands from the time were from America. But out of those 80's American rock bands who other then Guns really comes close to that classic list of English artists. Axl tours Europe, South America, Asia, hell even Canada and theirs never any problem as to who is going to be on stage under that name. Again other then the message boards. Do you feel that America holds GNR in a special place because it could of been one of those absolute classic bands but couldn't hold it together long enough to reach that level? Is that the reason that the Dj's and the American press were so hostile at first to Axl going out without the other guys?

and finally

4. Before Axl posted here I will admit I didn't have a problem with him going out as Guns, but I always thought it was a cheap way to of gotten the name. When he posted here it cleared up a ton. I like many were always lead to believe the Slash and Duff story that they had signed it away in order to put on a gig. After reading Axl's thoughts that night and hearing his side it made total sense. We had not only been lied to but the man had been dragged through the mud and run over every time any one reported the original story. His postings here, however late they came and after however much damage he had already sustained really shined a light on Slash and Duff's claim. Did Axl's "Homework Assignment" legitimize his claim to the Guns N' Roses name?

It's Simply:

AXL Is producer, frontman, compositor, founder, creator Of GUNS N' ROSES, original Line Up: TRACII, ROB, OLE, IZZY.

AXL No Interview In Newspaper, radio or TV. He not is mediatic, then... press Inventions, manipulations support whit ex.members whit 1 In Special.

The Truth Is Out There ---> GUNS N' ROSES ARE BACK IN YOUR ASS...

Dedicated To

cupcakes N' LOSERS

It's posts like this one that are driving posters away from this site.

Exactly...

Whit The Difference what You Poster = Bla, Blah, Blah + ZERO Culture Of GN'R. I Pray 4 You Man !! Good Luck.

[moreblack]

Whit The Difference what You Poster = Bla, Blah, Blah + ZERO Culture Of GN'R. I Pray 4 You Man !! Good Luck.

Zero culture of GNR? oh brother...

what's praying gonna do? who are you praying to anyway?