Hostility Over The Band Name

[uzi your illusion]

When Axl first came back for the House Of Blues show and more so when he did the grand unveiling at Rio in '01 the tension in the media over the band name was truly overwhelming. The tour in 2002 and the VMA performance (however good or bad it was) were when it came to a fever pitch. This was probably because it was America's first real taste of Guns in this incarnation, and it was a lot different then what they had seen last time. I have a few questions about this time period that would be interesting to see what you guys thought, and since we are in countdown mode till Rio, why not?

1. I personally like the VMA performance after the opening part with Jungle. Madagascar sounded in top form and PC was more then passable. Regardless of what the internet and majority of radio DJ's said it was a special night for us and the fans in the building that night and if you watch the crowd there is no denying that. However the negative media coverage of that and the cancellations of the tour that year really turned the hostility over Axl using the band name up to levels that we had never seen before. Do you think if the VMAs and the 2002 Tour would of went off without a hitch that Axl wouldn't of been hit so hard for touring under the GNR name with only one other "classic" member?

2. In 2006 you had the leaks which silenced a lot of people, I remember magazines giving "positive" reviews and even places like Metal-Sludge being stunned at the quality of the tracks. Then the 2006-2007 tour went off and Axl's voice was better, he seemed in great shape and the band was tight as fuck even with a brand new lead guitar player. It seemed like the more shows they got under their belt without incident the less the American media seemed to rip on him for keeping the Guns name. At this point do you think that the media heard the strength of the demos and saw the power of the live show and said "wow the guy might really do it" ? If you think back to that time, and don't count the message boards because there will ALWAYS be a debate as to if this is "GNR" or not, the media barley covered the fact that this wasn't the "real guns" and they were more interested in when the album would come out. Did 2006-2007 sway popular opinion on his right to perform under the name?

3. It seems like out of the classic bands Beatles, Stones, Floyd, Led Zep, Sabbath, all the real top tier bands from the time were English. You had Aerosmith The Eagles, to a lesser extent you had Kiss and i know most of the hair bands from the time were from America. But out of those 80's American rock bands who other then Guns really comes close to that classic list of English artists. Axl tours Europe, South America, Asia, hell even Canada and theirs never any problem as to who is going to be on stage under that name. Again other then the message boards. Do you feel that America holds GNR in a special place because it could of been one of those absolute classic bands but couldn't hold it together long enough to reach that level? Is that the reason that the Dj's and the American press were so hostile at first to Axl going out without the other guys?

and finally

4. Before Axl posted here I will admit I didn't have a problem with him going out as Guns, but I always thought it was a cheap way to of gotten the name. When he posted here it cleared up a ton. I like many were always lead to believe the Slash and Duff story that they had signed it away in order to put on a gig. After reading Axl's thoughts that night and hearing his side it made total sense. We had not only been lied to but the man had been dragged through the mud and run over every time any one reported the original story. His postings here, however late they came and after however much damage he had already sustained really shined a light on Slash and Duff's claim. Did Axl's "Homework Assignment" legitimize his claim to the Guns N' Roses name?

[Guest Len B'stard]

The vast majority of your post is a figment of your imagination. By 2002 nobody gave a shit about Guns n Roses anymore, there wasn't hostility, people just kind of went "oh" and got on with their day. Also, the leaks didn't silence nobody, they sounded like what they were, rough cuts of a talented musicians work. But this notion that the leaks made people sit up and go OMG!!! is bullshit too, in fact most people just went THATS 13 years of work?

And no i don't think America holds GnR in a special place. South America maybe but the USA? Naahhh...look around you dude, it's the day of Justin Bieber, trends and fashions and cultural movements have all come and gone long since anybody other than people fan-y enough to visit forums gave a shit about Guns n Roses.

I'm not tryna burst your bubble here, i'm a fan as much as anyone but reality is reality here, you're talking like, in such a grandiose way about "the people" and their response to Guns, "people started taking notice" and it's just not the reality of the matter man.

The only difference with Guns and every two bit shitbag band from the 80s getting back together is 1) Axl was always more talented than all of those motherfuckers 2) the fact that the name Guns n Roses was sort of left an unfinished thing but even then, really, nobody fuckin cares about Guns. There's a certain demographic yeah but you don't pack up your fuckin tents in the prime of your game, fuck off and come back in your mid 40s and expect everything to just be where you left it, it don't work like that, Jesus, even for Elvis it didn't work that way.

Fame or making it or whatever, it's something people fuckin give their all for, they fight and fight and fight for it and when you get it, you gotta work to take it forward otherwise it just ends and you're yesterdays papers and although Guns ain't yesterdays papers it's definitely getting late in the day.

The way i see it is, Guns n Roses have made it's statement, it's sealed, it's called Appetite for Destruction. Axl Rose has yet to make his. Unless his was Chi Dem in which case....

[Yesterdays-Civil-War]

When Axl first came back for the House Of Blues show and more so when he did the grand unveiling at Rio in '01 the tension in the media over the band name was truly overwhelming. The tour in 2002 and the VMA performance (however good or bad it was) were when it came to a fever pitch. This was probably because it was America's first real taste of Guns in this incarnation, and it was a lot different then what they had seen last time. I have a few questions about this time period that would be interesting to see what you guys thought, and since we are in countdown mode till Rio, why not?

1. I personally like the VMA performance after the opening part with Jungle. Madagascar sounded in top form and PC was more then passable. Regardless of what the internet and majority of radio DJ's said it was a special night for us and the fans in the building that night and if you watch the crowd there is no denying that. However the negative media coverage of that and the cancellations of the tour that year really turned the hostility over Axl using the band name up to levels that we had never seen before. Do you think if the VMAs and the 2002 Tour would of went off without a hitch that Axl wouldn't of been hit so hard for touring under the GNR name with only one other "classic" member?

2. In 2006 you had the leaks which silenced a lot of people, I remember magazines giving "positive" reviews and even places like Metal-Sludge being stunned at the quality of the tracks. Then the 2006-2007 tour went off and Axl's voice was better, he seemed in great shape and the band was tight as fuck even with a brand new lead guitar player. It seemed like the more shows they got under their belt without incident the less the American media seemed to rip on him for keeping the Guns name. At this point do you think that the media heard the strength of the demos and saw the power of the live show and said "wow the guy might really do it" ? If you think back to that time, and don't count the message boards because there will ALWAYS be a debate as to if this is "GNR" or not, the media barley covered the fact that this wasn't the "real guns" and they were more interested in when the album would come out. Did 2006-2007 sway popular opinion on his right to perform under the name?

3. It seems like out of the classic bands Beatles, Stones, Floyd, Led Zep, Sabbath, all the real top tier bands from the time were English. You had Aerosmith The Eagles, to a lesser extent you had Kiss and i know most of the hair bands from the time were from America. But out of those 80's American rock bands who other then Guns really comes close to that classic list of English artists. Axl tours Europe, South America, Asia, hell even Canada and theirs never any problem as to who is going to be on stage under that name. Again other then the message boards. Do you feel that America holds GNR in a special place because it could of been one of those absolute classic bands but couldn't hold it together long enough to reach that level? Is that the reason that the Dj's and the American press were so hostile at first to Axl going out without the other guys?

and finally

4. Before Axl posted here I will admit I didn't have a problem with him going out as Guns, but I always thought it was a cheap way to of gotten the name. When he posted here it cleared up a ton. I like many were always lead to believe the Slash and Duff story that they had signed it away in order to put on a gig. After reading Axl's thoughts that night and hearing his side it made total sense. We had not only been lied to but the man had been dragged through the mud and run over every time any one reported the original story. His postings here, however late they came and after however much damage he had already sustained really shined a light on Slash and Duff's claim. Did Axl's "Homework Assignment" legitimize his claim to the Guns N' Roses name?

'

1. I liked Madagascar in the VMA performance but Jungle and Paradise City were absolutely terrible. He was out of breath and the fact that there weren't really any guitar solo's through three songs didn't help him out any. He was dancing around, tired. To answer your question, regardless of the tour doing well or not, or let's say if Axl's voice was better, or however you want to spin it, there was no way the media wasn't going to criticize Axl for not having Slash & Duff next to him on stage.

2. I agree with you completely. In 2006-07 he came out of his shell and the world finally saw W. Axl Rose in top form again. It was just unfortunate the original band wasn't right there beside him. I do believe that in 06-07 there was more controversy about his hair, over him using the GN'R name.

3. Hold up..."to a lesser extenet Kiss" They have sold over 100 million albums with 24 gold albums. KISS was and still is one of the greatest bands in the world and I think when you are talking top bands all of the bands you listed are right on the money, no need to make an excuse for KISS. I personally don't like The Beatles but hey, people here probably think I'm crazy for my infatuation with KISS.

Moving along, I think America does. Most critic's, music connoisseurs, and fans just say, "what could've been." BULLSHIT. GN'R is in the top 10 greatest bands of all time, hands down and no questions asked. The whole, "if they would've stayed longer" deal is ridiculous, and the amount they did in their short tenure can go head to head with a lot of rock n' roll bands, regardless of era. For that reason when Axl came back in 01-02 with "Axl & Friends" I imagine people felt cheated and regardless of how great the shows were, people could only find negative things to say. I get it, his voice was horrible, but I would've loved to be at one of those shows, because regardless if Slash, Duff, Steven or whoever is in the band with the name "Guns N' Roses," if Axl is there, I want to go see them.

4. Absolutely! Axl's chats here, interviews in 06' and the interview in 09' (with Del James) along with any press release he made (that wasn't about a non Slash-Duff lawsuit), just made his story more clear and stronger. Slash's story has changed more times than you can count and oh yeah, the "truth" is totally more than just a song on a Snakepit record...it's also in Slash's autobiography...blah blah blah. That is what I like about Axl, his story stays consistent. And while he may be a manic depressive, controlling front man, just look at what he had to deal with.

P.S. Great thread

Edited August 2, 2011 by Yesterdays-Civil-War

[sailaway]

When Axl first came back for the House Of Blues show and more so when he did the grand unveiling at Rio in '01 the tension in the media over the band name was truly overwhelming. The tour in 2002 and the VMA performance (however good or bad it was) were when it came to a fever pitch. This was probably because it was America's first real taste of Guns in this incarnation, and it was a lot different then what they had seen last time. I have a few questions about this time period that would be interesting to see what you guys thought, and since we are in countdown mode till Rio, why not?

1. I personally like the VMA performance after the opening part with Jungle. Madagascar sounded in top form and PC was more then passable. Regardless of what the internet and majority of radio DJ's said it was a special night for us and the fans in the building that night and if you watch the crowd there is no denying that. However the negative media coverage of that and the cancellations of the tour that year really turned the hostility over Axl using the band name up to levels that we had never seen before. Do you think if the VMAs and the 2002 Tour would of went off without a hitch that Axl wouldn't of been hit so hard for touring under the GNR name with only one other "classic" member?

2. In 2006 you had the leaks which silenced a lot of people, I remember magazines giving "positive" reviews and even places like Metal-Sludge being stunned at the quality of the tracks. Then the 2006-2007 tour went off and Axl's voice was better, he seemed in great shape and the band was tight as fuck even with a brand new lead guitar player. It seemed like the more shows they got under their belt without incident the less the American media seemed to rip on him for keeping the Guns name. At this point do you think that the media heard the strength of the demos and saw the power of the live show and said "wow the guy might really do it" ? If you think back to that time, and don't count the message boards because there will ALWAYS be a debate as to if this is "GNR" or not, the media barley covered the fact that this wasn't the "real guns" and they were more interested in when the album would come out. Did 2006-2007 sway popular opinion on his right to perform under the name?

3. It seems like out of the classic bands Beatles, Stones, Floyd, Led Zep, Sabbath, all the real top tier bands from the time were English. You had Aerosmith The Eagles, to a lesser extent you had Kiss and i know most of the hair bands from the time were from America. But out of those 80's American rock bands who other then Guns really comes close to that classic list of English artists. Axl tours Europe, South America, Asia, hell even Canada and theirs never any problem as to who is going to be on stage under that name. Again other then the message boards. Do you feel that America holds GNR in a special place because it could of been one of those absolute classic bands but couldn't hold it together long enough to reach that level? Is that the reason that the Dj's and the American press were so hostile at first to Axl going out without the other guys?

and finally

4. Before Axl posted here I will admit I didn't have a problem with him going out as Guns, but I always thought it was a cheap way to of gotten the name. When he posted here it cleared up a ton. I like many were always lead to believe the Slash and Duff story that they had signed it away in order to put on a gig. After reading Axl's thoughts that night and hearing his side it made total sense. We had not only been lied to but the man had been dragged through the mud and run over every time any one reported the original story. His postings here, however late they came and after however much damage he had already sustained really shined a light on Slash and Duff's claim. Did Axl's "Homework Assignment" legitimize his claim to the Guns N' Roses name?

'

1. I liked Madagascar in the VMA performance but Jungle and Paradise City were absolutely terrible. He was out of breath and the fact that there weren't really any guitar solo's through three songs didn't help him out any. He was dancing around, tired. To answer your question, regardless of the tour doing well or not, or let's say if Axl's voice was better, or however you want to spin it, there was no way the media wasn't going to criticize Axl for not having Slash & Duff next to him on stage.

2. I agree with you completely. In 2006-07 he came out of his shell and the world finally saw W. Axl Rose in top form again. It was just unfortunate the original band wasn't right there beside him. I do believe that in 06-07 there was more controversy about his hair, over him using the GN'R name.

3. Hold up..."to a lesser extenet Kiss" They have sold over 100 million albums with 24 gold albums. KISS was and still is one of the greatest bands in the world and I think when you are talking top bands all of the bands you listed are right on the money, no need to make an excuse for KISS. I personally don't like The Beatles but hey, people here probably think I'm crazy for my infatuation with KISS.

Moving along, I think America does. Most critic's, music connoisseurs, and fans just say, "what could've been." BULLSHIT. GN'R is in the top 10 greatest bands of all time, hands down and no questions asked. The whole, "if they would've stayed longer" deal is ridiculous, and the amount they did in their short tenure can go head to head with a lot of rock n' roll bands, regardless of era. For that reason when Axl came back in 01-02 with "Axl & Friends" I imagine people felt cheated and regardless of how great the shows were, people could only find negative things to say. I get it, his voice was horrible, but I would've loved to be at one of those shows, because regardless if Slash, Duff, Steven or whoever is in the band with the name "Guns N' Roses," if Axl is there, I want to go see them.

4. Absolutely! Axl's chats here, interviews in 06' and the interview in 09' (with Del James) along with any press release he made (that wasn't about a non Slash-Duff lawsuit), just made his story more clear and stronger. Slash's story has changed more times than you can count and oh yeah, the "truth" is totally more than just a song on a Snakepit record...it's also in Slash's autobiography...blah blah blah. That is what I like about Axl, his story stays consistent. And while he may be a manic depressive, controlling front man, just look at what he had to deal with.

P.S. Great thread

Look what he had to deal with,a band full of alchies and junkies.It could not have been pleasant.I fully expect the predictable detractors to have an issue about the band name forever,or until they graduate from high school/or 6th grade

Not a problem really,Tracii Gunns and Rob Gardener refused to go to seattle.Steven and Saul agreed to replace them.Axl was already in GNR and brought the name with him.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Look what he had to deal with,a band full of alchies and junkies.It could not have been pleasant.I fully expect the predictable detractors to have an issue about the band name forever,or until they graduate from high school/or 6th grade

Not a problem really,Tracii Gunns and Rob Gardener refused to go to seattle.Steven and Saul agreed to replace them.Axl was already in GNR and brought the name with him.

He's a manic depressive too though to be fair. A junkie you can get off dope...a fuckin alchie you can sober up...but someone whoose proper fuckin mental? Like wrong in the head, someone that goes on about being abused as a child when he was 2 years old, THEY'RE the ones you need to worry about. I find it absolutely hilairious that all these people are getting on Guns n Roses for doing drugs. It's a rock n roll band for fuckssake, it's these very things, in part, that got them where they were, excess and all that shit.

I'd rather be in a band full of alkies and junkies than a bunch of fuckin mineral water drinking instrument nerds.

Edited August 2, 2011 by sugaraylen

[Guest Len B'stard]

The vast majority of your post is a figment of your imagination. By 2002 nobody gave a shit about Guns n Roses anymore

Crowd at VMA 2002 went ape shit for GNR just look at the footage. Even with a subpar performance they stole the whole damn show. GNR is the greatest fuckin' band in the world.

I'd like to add that VMA 2002 had probably the best performance of Madagascar.

I know man, i was one of em, not in the crowd i mean at home i sorta stumbled over the VMAs as a happy accident and there they were but, at the same time dude, y'know, where did it go after that?

Also, The Sex Pistols are the greatest band in the world and always will be

Edited August 2, 2011 by sugaraylen

[sleeper]

I really don't care what Axl calls his latest set of employees. He has a right to call them what ever he wants. The name is a money maker and he would be a damn fool to call them anything else. You can call Axl a lot of things but a fool is not one of them.

BTW anyone that can honestly say the the document Del James posted a few years ago was a interview needs a reality check.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I wonder if fans of Megadeth, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Kiss, INXS, Journey, Metallica, AIC, Faith No more, Judas Priest (etc... the list goes on) post crap like this on their forums?

if the aforementioned bands are some kind of indicator as to what kind of fan frequents this forum i think i might be out of here

[Guest Len B'stard]

I am happy with the music Slash, Duff and Izzy have put out and continue to put out........

Besides Duff's Believe In Me and Gilby's Pawnshop Guitars (which I think is the best solo effort from any past gunner) the rest of it is crap. Don't fool yourself. However I admire your devotion to the past members whether they release crap or not

I'm really not into Tommy, BH, BBF ect.. solo shit either.

Tommy was in the Mats, therefore is a God. If anybody could be said to have equal credentials to Axl Rose in that band, it's General Tommy Stinson.

Tommy said so!

[Yesterdays-Civil-War]

I wonder if fans of Megadeth, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Kiss, INXS, Journey, Metallica, AIC, Faith No more, Judas Priest (etc... the list goes on) post crap like this on their forums?

I can speak for KISS as saying for the most part all the forums are a very friendly environment in which they discuss all lineups of KISS and enjoy the music from each of those lineups. But, I think there is a lot less stress on KISS fans (like myself) because there is tons of music and touring to talk about and there is always more coming! (But you cannot necessarily compare that to GN'R as KISS has had nearly 40 years to put all of that together.)

The GN'R forums and (some) fans are some of the worst as far as criticizing former and current members of any band, and criticizing the lack of music being put out.

In response to others in this thread,

I believe the combination of Axl's manic depressive state, and the addictions of the other members, made a match that was (self) destructive.

I'm not a blind Axl fan, saying he is always in the right and he is God. His musical talents are untouchable and unmatched on many levels. But this doesn't excuse anything he may have done with GN'R...he got involved with more lawyers and suits than you can count on both hands to ensure that GN'R was his, and I don't think it was subject of him being a control freak but I think he knew that eventually the band would fall apart. He protected his ass and his assets.

Also, it doesn't matter how many times Axl has told his story, he isn't a press whore, he isn't tweeting every five seconds and he isn't on these forums responding to us (that much) anymore either. The fact is, he told his story and it has remained consistent. He called Slash a cancer, it's not like he is coming out saying he wants a reunion and just wants to hug the guy...versus Slash who has arrogantly mocked Axl in the press many times then coming back with some sort of statement about how great Axl is.

"We don't talk about Axl over here...if you wanna talk about Axl go ask Axl" then he comes out and says he wants a GN'R reunion if Axl apologizes. WTF? Personally, I think Axl and Slash both owe each other an apology...it seems as though Axl and Duff have buried the hatchet and I assume Axl and Izzy are still under good terms. I doubt Axl really does want anything to do with Steven ever again, and I remember reading somewhere when Axl and Sorum hung out, but I doubt Axl would ever want to tour with Sorum again. As far Clarke and Axl, I would assume they are in good ties as well.

Regardless of who is playing with GN'R and who isn't playing with GN'R, it's legally Axl's name and he can do whatever he pleases with it.

[Chris 55]

.Steven and Saul agreed to replace them.Axl was already in GNR and brought the name with him.

Good thing Mike and Jeff were in GNR too

[Guest siliconmessiah]

I can speak for KISS as saying for the most part all the forums are a very friendly environment in which they discuss all lineups of KISS and enjoy the music from each of those lineups. But, I think there is a lot less stress on KISS fans (like myself) because there is tons of music and touring to talk about and there is always more coming! (But you cannot necessarily compare that to GN'R as KISS has had nearly 40 years to put all of that together.)

The GN'R forums and (some) fans are some of the worst as far as criticizing former and current members of any band, and criticizing the lack of music being put out.

In response to others in this thread,

I believe the combination of Axl's manic depressive state, and the addictions of the other members, made a match that was (self) destructive.

I'm not a blind Axl fan, saying he is always in the right and he is God. His musical talents are untouchable and unmatched on many levels. But this doesn't excuse anything he may have done with GN'R...he got involved with more lawyers and suits than you can count on both hands to ensure that GN'R was his, and I don't think it was subject of him being a control freak but I think he knew that eventually the band would fall apart. He protected his ass and his assets.

Also, it doesn't matter how many times Axl has told his story, he isn't a press whore, he isn't tweeting every five seconds and he isn't on these forums responding to us (that much) anymore either. The fact is, he told his story and it has remained consistent. He called Slash a cancer, it's not like he is coming out saying he wants a reunion and just wants to hug the guy...versus Slash who has arrogantly mocked Axl in the press many times then coming back with some sort of statement about how great Axl is.

"We don't talk about Axl over here...if you wanna talk about Axl go ask Axl" then he comes out and says he wants a GN'R reunion if Axl apologizes. WTF? Personally, I think Axl and Slash both owe each other an apology...it seems as though Axl and Duff have buried the hatchet and I assume Axl and Izzy are still under good terms. I doubt Axl really does want anything to do with Steven ever again, and I remember reading somewhere when Axl and Sorum hung out, but I doubt Axl would ever want to tour with Sorum again. As far Clarke and Axl, I would assume they are in good ties as well.

Regardless of who is playing with GN'R and who isn't playing with GN'R, it's legally Axl's name and he can do whatever he pleases with it.

A great post! Really good read!

I would also like to add with the Kiss-part, it´s a little bit how you treat your fans and the legacy that´s beyond. Take a look att www.kissonline.com and compare it with www.gunsnroses.com, for example.

One other thing to add is that I think that the GNR-fanbase would have been more forgiving if Axl had released more material with his different lineups. I mean, the current lineup hasn´t even created a record yet.

[Cosmo]

I can speak for KISS as saying for the most part all the forums are a very friendly environment in which they discuss all lineups of KISS and enjoy the music from each of those lineups. But, I think there is a lot less stress on KISS fans (like myself) because there is tons of music and touring to talk about and there is always more coming! (But you cannot necessarily compare that to GN'R as KISS has had nearly 40 years to put all of that together.)

The GN'R forums and (some) fans are some of the worst as far as criticizing former and current members of any band, and criticizing the lack of music being put out.

In response to others in this thread,

I believe the combination of Axl's manic depressive state, and the addictions of the other members, made a match that was (self) destructive.

I'm not a blind Axl fan, saying he is always in the right and he is God. His musical talents are untouchable and unmatched on many levels. But this doesn't excuse anything he may have done with GN'R...he got involved with more lawyers and suits than you can count on both hands to ensure that GN'R was his, and I don't think it was subject of him being a control freak but I think he knew that eventually the band would fall apart. He protected his ass and his assets.

Also, it doesn't matter how many times Axl has told his story, he isn't a press whore, he isn't tweeting every five seconds and he isn't on these forums responding to us (that much) anymore either. The fact is, he told his story and it has remained consistent. He called Slash a cancer, it's not like he is coming out saying he wants a reunion and just wants to hug the guy...versus Slash who has arrogantly mocked Axl in the press many times then coming back with some sort of statement about how great Axl is.

"We don't talk about Axl over here...if you wanna talk about Axl go ask Axl" then he comes out and says he wants a GN'R reunion if Axl apologizes. WTF? Personally, I think Axl and Slash both owe each other an apology...it seems as though Axl and Duff have buried the hatchet and I assume Axl and Izzy are still under good terms. I doubt Axl really does want anything to do with Steven ever again, and I remember reading somewhere when Axl and Sorum hung out, but I doubt Axl would ever want to tour with Sorum again. As far Clarke and Axl, I would assume they are in good ties as well.

Regardless of who is playing with GN'R and who isn't playing with GN'R, it's legally Axl's name and he can do whatever he pleases with it.

A great post! Really good read!

I would also like to add with the Kiss-part, it´s a little bit how you treat your fans and the legacy that´s beyond. Take a look att www.kissonline.com and compare it with www.gunsnroses.com, for example.

One other thing to add is that I think that the GNR-fanbase would have been more forgiving if Axl had released more material with his different lineups. I mean, the current lineup hasn´t even created a record yet.

I'm curious (and too lazy to google) when was the last time kiss released an album?

2009, Sonic Boom... amazing album! another's on the way

[Cosmo]

I can speak for KISS as saying for the most part all the forums are a very friendly environment in which they discuss all lineups of KISS and enjoy the music from each of those lineups. But, I think there is a lot less stress on KISS fans (like myself) because there is tons of music and touring to talk about and there is always more coming! (But you cannot necessarily compare that to GN'R as KISS has had nearly 40 years to put all of that together.)

The GN'R forums and (some) fans are some of the worst as far as criticizing former and current members of any band, and criticizing the lack of music being put out.

In response to others in this thread,

I believe the combination of Axl's manic depressive state, and the addictions of the other members, made a match that was (self) destructive.

I'm not a blind Axl fan, saying he is always in the right and he is God. His musical talents are untouchable and unmatched on many levels. But this doesn't excuse anything he may have done with GN'R...he got involved with more lawyers and suits than you can count on both hands to ensure that GN'R was his, and I don't think it was subject of him being a control freak but I think he knew that eventually the band would fall apart. He protected his ass and his assets.

Also, it doesn't matter how many times Axl has told his story, he isn't a press whore, he isn't tweeting every five seconds and he isn't on these forums responding to us (that much) anymore either. The fact is, he told his story and it has remained consistent. He called Slash a cancer, it's not like he is coming out saying he wants a reunion and just wants to hug the guy...versus Slash who has arrogantly mocked Axl in the press many times then coming back with some sort of statement about how great Axl is.

"We don't talk about Axl over here...if you wanna talk about Axl go ask Axl" then he comes out and says he wants a GN'R reunion if Axl apologizes. WTF? Personally, I think Axl and Slash both owe each other an apology...it seems as though Axl and Duff have buried the hatchet and I assume Axl and Izzy are still under good terms. I doubt Axl really does want anything to do with Steven ever again, and I remember reading somewhere when Axl and Sorum hung out, but I doubt Axl would ever want to tour with Sorum again. As far Clarke and Axl, I would assume they are in good ties as well.

Regardless of who is playing with GN'R and who isn't playing with GN'R, it's legally Axl's name and he can do whatever he pleases with it.

A great post! Really good read!

I would also like to add with the Kiss-part, it´s a little bit how you treat your fans and the legacy that´s beyond. Take a look att www.kissonline.com and compare it with www.gunsnroses.com, for example.

One other thing to add is that I think that the GNR-fanbase would have been more forgiving if Axl had released more material with his different lineups. I mean, the current lineup hasn´t even created a record yet.

I'm curious (and too lazy to google) when was the last time kiss released an album?

2009, Sonic Boom... amazing album! another's on the way

Cool. Did it have any hits? Any videos? Did it crack the Billboard top 200?

Yes. It peaked at number 1 in the Billboard Hard Rock, Rock and Independent albums, as well as number 2 in the billboard 200. It's lead single, Modern Day Delilah peaked at number 50 in the billboard, and has a very cool music video. The other singles, Never Enough and Say Yeah did not have any videos though. The album had two tours: Sonic Boom Over Europe and Hottest Show On Earth Tour, in Europe and North America.

[Guest siliconmessiah]

I'm curious (and too lazy to google) when was the last time kiss released an album?

They released Sonic Boom in 2009, a live album in 2010, and has a new album that is being released in january together with a dvd.

Edited August 2, 2011 by siliconmessiah

[Yesterdays-Civil-War]

Cool. Did it have any hits? Any videos? Did it crack the Billboard top 200?

Unfortunately Sonic Boom joins Music from the Elder, and Carnival of Souls as being the only KISS albums yet to go gold.

At the end of 09' the album had sold some 240,000 copies or so. I imagine it is close to 300,000 or more now, but I don't think it will be going gold anytime soon. It sold 108,000 copies in it's first week and peaked at number 2 on the Billboard 200.

There is a music video for the first single off the album, "Modern Day Delilah"

Edited August 2, 2011 by Yesterdays-Civil-War

[Guest siliconmessiah]

There is a music video for the first single off the album, "Modern Day Delilah"

Just had to watch it. When Kiss plays live-shows it always seem like everyone is having such fun...too bad i missed the the last time around!

[Cosmo]

Cool. Did it have any hits? Any videos? Did it crack the Billboard top 200?

Unfortunately Sonic Boom joins Music from the Elder, and Carnival of Souls as being the only KISS albums yet to go gold.

At the end of 09' the album had sold some 240,000 copies or so. I imagine it is close to 300,000 or more now, but I don't think it will be going gold anytime soon. It sold 108,000 copies in it's first week and peaked at number 2 on the Billboard 200.

There is a music video for the first single off the album, "Modern Day Delilah"

It's probably the best KISS album since Love Gun tho... Love it.

[Cosmo]

Cool thanks everyone for all the Kiss info. Amazing after 40 years the Kiss Army is alive and well!

Did they ever in 40 years go through a "slow period" like GNR? No music, tour, videos etc....?

Only in terms of new material. Their last album before Sonic Boom was Psycho Circus, and it was released in 1998... but they kept on with the tours, a trillion greatest hit compilations, live albums, box sets, the famous KISS merchandise, etc...

[bran]

the way i always looked at it is the original guns left on there own (outside steven) izzy/slash/duff left the band why should axl change the name? black sabbath went on as sabbath with just iommi as the only original member in the band.

im not an axl worshipper or a slash hater, i have my issues with both on different things but this should have never been an issue to begin with IMO.

[sailaway]

.Steven and Saul agreed to replace them.Axl was already in GNR and brought the name with him.

Good thing Mike and Jeff were in GNR too

Goes without saying.DUH

[star]

I think most people accept that Guns N'Roses 'the name' is owned by one original band member, and it takes more than an original band member to generate the sound that made the name. There's no winning really

[sailaway]

the way i always looked at it is the original guns left on there own (outside steven) izzy/slash/duff left the band why should axl change the name? black sabbath went on as sabbath with just iommi as the only original member in the band.

im not an axl worshipper or a slash hater, i have my issues with both on different things but this should have never been an issue to begin with IMO.

It's a non-issue at this point in time,except for the reunionists and others that are way too upset that Saul isn't in GNR because of his own decision.

[Nintari]

It will never die down because the mainstream media and public will never let it die down. We're in the vast minority. Everyone else will never accept this band as Guns N Roses. It's just the way it is.

[WhazUp]

Legally it is Guns N' Roses. But it isn't the same band as the 1987 Guns N' Roses cause well.. it isn't. That isn't to say I don't enjoy the nu band though. But to me AFD is "the" album. The vibe captured on the material from that album up to the Illusions to me is just pure magic. Hell I doubt if there was a reunion that the original guys can come close to what they once were. All in all, I enjoy the new lineup. I dig Chinese Democracy, and the new band plays well. I can live with that.

Edited August 2, 2011 by WhazUp