Best Buy no longer carrying CD?

[Black Sabbath]

It's pretty far-fucking-fetched, but can you imagine if Axl put The General & Soul Monster as the bonus tracks for the re-release? I think the boards might crash.

I think the board would crash regardless of which new song it was, just as long as there was a song

[The Wicked Hand]

This would be supercool:

an album of the Chinese Democracy sessions greatest tracks. Like a best of.......

And it's called well ......Chinese Democracy.

That's why it's considered a rerelease because it has the same name but it's just the best of the CD sessions.

That would put CD in the past and move on to numusic w nuGuns! That would be grand!

[Nick85]

It's pretty far-fucking-fetched, but can you imagine if Axl put The General & Soul Monster as the bonus tracks for the re-release? I think the boards might crash.

I think the board would crash regardless of which new song it was, just as long as there was a song

Exactly. In fact, I really hope Axl reads this thread and sees how much genuine excitement comes out of the fanbase when the possibility of us getting one or two more tracks from the CD sessions arises. Hopefully that'll motivate him to put the next album out sooner than later!

[wasted]

studio version of Silkworms.

[Sonny Largo]

IF there's a re-release (and i don't think there will or should be), the new tracks will be the re-recorded appetite stuff.

[The Wicked Hand]

Why do you think THAT?

[Sonny Largo]

Why do you think THAT?

i don't. i don't think there's going to be a re-release of CD at all. just speculating.

why would they release it?...

to put it very bluntly: because the vast majority of people do not give a fuck about anything guns n' roses has put out since 1991. if slash ain't there, they don't care. guns n' roses are a classic rock band now, no different than KISS or journey or foreigner to the ears and tastes of john q. public. and what do classic rock bands do to draw attention to their new music (and usually, whole new lineups)? ask KISS, or journey, or foreigner.

(i speak only of gnr's status in america. i couldn't speak about the rest of the world, though i've heard in south america axl's basically a god. and as for myself, i wish like hell it wasn't the way it is. i don't think axl needs slash [i think he needs izzy]. i thought chidem was really good. i think it'd be great for tommy stinson to be in the biggest band in the world. i hope there's a way that gnr can get huge again, or at least not be a punchline anymore. but after being a fan of this band for 24 years or so, i hope you can at least understand my pessimism.)

[GNR123GNR456]

Why do you think THAT?

i don't. i don't think there's going to be a re-release of CD at all. just speculating.

why would they release it?...

to put it very bluntly: because the vast majority of people do not give a fuck about anything guns n' roses has put out since 1991. if slash ain't there, they don't care. guns n' roses are a classic rock band now, no different than KISS or journey or foreigner to the ears and tastes of john q. public. and what do classic rock bands do to draw attention to their new music (and usually, whole new lineups)? ask KISS, or journey, or foreigner.

(i speak only of gnr's status in america. i couldn't speak about the rest of the world, though i've heard in south america axl's basically a god. and as for myself, i wish like hell it wasn't the way it is. i don't think axl needs slash [i think he needs izzy]. i thought chidem was really good. i think it'd be great for tommy stinson to be in the biggest band in the world. i hope there's a way that gnr can get huge again, or at least not be a punchline anymore. but after being a fan of this band for 24 years or so, i hope you can at least understand my pessimism.)

That's why I can't see a re-release being a good business move. It wasn't really remotely as successful as the quote on quote "most anticipated album of all time," so why try to release it again? If they have any new songs on it, they'll be on Youtube and torrent sites, and I can't see people buying a album they didn't but the first time.

The best scenario for GN'R would be to release a new album with new and old material (hell, it can even be the Chinese leftovers) and tour behind it. Promote the shit out of it with videos and interviews, and work behind that. Us all the tactic's that they were going to use with the re-release of Chinese Democracy and us them for the new album.

Edited September 27, 2011 by GNR123GNR456

[wasted]

I can't see no more copies of CD being available forever, so there has to be somekind of reboot. unless all the copies we have are going to be collectors items. another version might be put out with little fanfare.

[Nick85]

I can't see no more copies of CD being available forever, so there has to be somekind of reboot. unless all the copies we have are going to be collectors items. another version might be put out with little fanfare.

Good point. Something's gotta happen eventually on this one.

[LurkingSince'06]

I hate to rain on everyone's parade. Although the timing of this could mean that something is up, I will tell you that I am an attorney who has represented a record distributor and who has a good working knowledge of how CDs are stocked and removed from retail stores. Think about it like real estate. Distributors often pay (or negotiate) a premium for prime placement in stores (e.g., the "waterfall" racks at the ends of aisles; stand-alone displays like they had for CD) or to be in stores at all (e.g., the exclusive with Best Buy or placement in certain stores at all). Also, the store/chain typically has certain rights to return the CDs at some point (either at their discretion, or once sales slow to a certain rate, or after a certain time). In other words, they aren't stuck with the merchandise until they sell the last copy. Moreover, distributors (i.e., middle man between record labels and stores) often have it built into their contract that they will charge the label a re-stocking fee if CDs are returned to them and they have to scan, shelve, and store them. Often it costs less to destroy them than re-stock them, and the contract, again, may provide that the distributor has certain rights to destroy them, or can put the artist or label to the choice of receiving the returns, authorizing destruction, or ending up paying for storage of the returned-and-unsold CDs (which is a pretty silly thing to do if you don't think they'll get back out to the stores). It may simply be that Best Buy--especially if they are reducing their floor space for compact discs--have elected to use their space on something else, or have fulfilled their contractual obligations for how long they had to carry the product. My guess is that the unsold copies have been returned to the distributor, or were authorized for destruction upon return to save handling and re-stocking charges. After all, it is a business. The record, by accounts from the SoundScan and other folks who track the stuff, was not selling well enough in the last year or so for all remaining copies to sell out, so no signs appear to point to that being what happened.

Sorry if this is taken as bad news by anyone. I think it's a fantastic album, and one that would have sold better with some promotion, but which likely never would have had the huge commercial success of prior G n R albums because it's not that kind of album, because tastes have changed, and because the media machine right now is not geared towards giving something like it the spotlight (see Jonas Brothers, et al on the cover of the nutless Rolling Stone). I also think the band missed the boat by not making "Better" the single and having Axl do an interview with Rolling Stone or some other BIG media outlet. Rolling Stone's initial response was very positive. Also, despite all of the folks saying there was not "monumental promotion" there was definitely some serious radio attention nationally for the roll out, and that probably included the band or label paying a lot of marketing folks who work the stations directly to get airplay (e.g., FMQB). Also, ESPN was incorporating CD songs into their broadcasts, there was the Dr. Pepper deal, the Grey Cup, Wrestling, and there was some other interesting co-branding and placement. Axl just took his ball and went home for reasons unknown to me. It's a shame. Maybe he wasn't ready for his big moment and didn't appreciate it being forced on him when he wasn't at his best or in a way different than his 100% vision of the album. He recovered well, though, and had an excellent international tour. I hope he does at least some publicity in support of the U.S. tour. There's nothing wrong with advertising something you are trying to sell . . . especially if it's a good product, which it is. Unfortunately, he may not have financial backing from the label to do it, and they may be holding the last album in limbo, hoping for something better, or to keep leverage over Axl. I'd be very interested to see the settlement agreement with Azoff to see who is gaining what from the deal for the tour, and how, if at all, future commitments might be addressed.

[Black Sabbath]

Ok.

[Chris 55]

I hate to rain on everyone's parade. Although the timing of this could mean that something is up, I will tell you that I am an attorney who has represented a record distributor and who has a good working knowledge of how CDs are stocked and removed from retail stores. Think about it like real estate. Distributors often pay (or negotiate) a premium for prime placement in stores (e.g., the "waterfall" racks at the ends of aisles; stand-alone displays like they had for CD) or to be in stores at all (e.g., the exclusive with Best Buy or placement in certain stores at all). Also, the store/chain typically has certain rights to return the CDs at some point (either at their discretion, or once sales slow to a certain rate, or after a certain time). In other words, they aren't stuck with the merchandise until they sell the last copy. Moreover, distributors (i.e., middle man between record labels and stores) often have it built into their contract that they will charge the label a re-stocking fee if CDs are returned to them and they have to scan, shelve, and store them. Often it costs less to destroy them than re-stock them, and the contract, again, may provide that the distributor has certain rights to destroy them, or can put the artist or label to the choice of receiving the returns, authorizing destruction, or ending up paying for storage of the returned-and-unsold CDs (which is a pretty silly thing to do if you don't think they'll get back out to the stores). It may simply be that Best Buy--especially if they are reducing their floor space for compact discs--have elected to use their space on something else, or have fulfilled their contractual obligations for how long they had to carry the product. My guess is that the unsold copies have been returned to the distributor, or were authorized for destruction upon return to save handling and re-stocking charges. After all, it is a business. The record, by accounts from the SoundScan and other folks who track the stuff, was not selling well enough in the last year or so for all remaining copies to sell out, so no signs appear to point to that being what happened.

Sorry if this is taken as bad news by anyone. I think it's a fantastic album, and one that would have sold better with some promotion, but which likely never would have had the huge commercial success of prior G n R albums because it's not that kind of album, because tastes have changed, and because the media machine right now is not geared towards giving something like it the spotlight (see Jonas Brothers, et al on the cover of the nutless Rolling Stone). I also think the band missed the boat by not making "Better" the single and having Axl do an interview with Rolling Stone or some other BIG media outlet. Rolling Stone's initial response was very positive. Also, despite all of the folks saying there was not "monumental promotion" there was definitely some serious radio attention nationally for the roll out, and that probably included the band or label paying a lot of marketing folks who work the stations directly to get airplay (e.g., FMQB). Also, ESPN was incorporating CD songs into their broadcasts, there was the Dr. Pepper deal, the Grey Cup, Wrestling, and there was some other interesting co-branding and placement. Axl just took his ball and went home for reasons unknown to me. It's a shame. Maybe he wasn't ready for his big moment and didn't appreciate it being forced on him when he wasn't at his best or in a way different than his 100% vision of the album. He recovered well, though, and had an excellent international tour. I hope he does at least some publicity in support of the U.S. tour. There's nothing wrong with advertising something you are trying to sell . . . especially if it's a good product, which it is. Unfortunately, he may not have financial backing from the label to do it, and they may be holding the last album in limbo, hoping for something better, or to keep leverage over Axl. I'd be very interested to see the settlement agreement with Azoff to see who is gaining what from the deal for the tour, and how, if at all, future commitments might be addressed.

Yup. Pretty much.

[Black Sabbath]

I was just being an ass, but, you're probably right.

But, you could also be wrong. I guess we'll find out eventually.

Or we wont.

[Ali]

I hate to rain on everyone's parade. Although the timing of this could mean that something is up, I will tell you that I am an attorney who has represented a record distributor and who has a good working knowledge of how CDs are stocked and removed from retail stores. Think about it like real estate. Distributors often pay (or negotiate) a premium for prime placement in stores (e.g., the "waterfall" racks at the ends of aisles; stand-alone displays like they had for CD) or to be in stores at all (e.g., the exclusive with Best Buy or placement in certain stores at all). Also, the store/chain typically has certain rights to return the CDs at some point (either at their discretion, or once sales slow to a certain rate, or after a certain time). In other words, they aren't stuck with the merchandise until they sell the last copy. Moreover, distributors (i.e., middle man between record labels and stores) often have it built into their contract that they will charge the label a re-stocking fee if CDs are returned to them and they have to scan, shelve, and store them. Often it costs less to destroy them than re-stock them, and the contract, again, may provide that the distributor has certain rights to destroy them, or can put the artist or label to the choice of receiving the returns, authorizing destruction, or ending up paying for storage of the returned-and-unsold CDs (which is a pretty silly thing to do if you don't think they'll get back out to the stores). It may simply be that Best Buy--especially if they are reducing their floor space for compact discs--have elected to use their space on something else, or have fulfilled their contractual obligations for how long they had to carry the product. My guess is that the unsold copies have been returned to the distributor, or were authorized for destruction upon return to save handling and re-stocking charges. After all, it is a business. The record, by accounts from the SoundScan and other folks who track the stuff, was not selling well enough in the last year or so for all remaining copies to sell out, so no signs appear to point to that being what happened.

Sorry if this is taken as bad news by anyone. I think it's a fantastic album, and one that would have sold better with some promotion, but which likely never would have had the huge commercial success of prior G n R albums because it's not that kind of album, because tastes have changed, and because the media machine right now is not geared towards giving something like it the spotlight (see Jonas Brothers, et al on the cover of the nutless Rolling Stone). I also think the band missed the boat by not making "Better" the single and having Axl do an interview with Rolling Stone or some other BIG media outlet. Rolling Stone's initial response was very positive. Also, despite all of the folks saying there was not "monumental promotion" there was definitely some serious radio attention nationally for the roll out, and that probably included the band or label paying a lot of marketing folks who work the stations directly to get airplay (e.g., FMQB). Also, ESPN was incorporating CD songs into their broadcasts, there was the Dr. Pepper deal, the Grey Cup, Wrestling, and there was some other interesting co-branding and placement. Axl just took his ball and went home for reasons unknown to me. It's a shame. Maybe he wasn't ready for his big moment and didn't appreciate it being forced on him when he wasn't at his best or in a way different than his 100% vision of the album. He recovered well, though, and had an excellent international tour. I hope he does at least some publicity in support of the U.S. tour. There's nothing wrong with advertising something you are trying to sell . . . especially if it's a good product, which it is. Unfortunately, he may not have financial backing from the label to do it, and they may be holding the last album in limbo, hoping for something better, or to keep leverage over Axl. I'd be very interested to see the settlement agreement with Azoff to see who is gaining what from the deal for the tour, and how, if at all, future commitments might be addressed.

This was not just any record sale/distribution deal. This was an exclusive deal. Your working knowledge of how CDs are normally distributed may not apply in this particular case.

Ali

[LurkingSince'06]

I was just being an ass, but, you're probably right.

But, you could also be wrong. I guess we'll find out eventually.

Or we wont.

LOL. No problem. I'm on here almost every night. I just never posted before because I mostly just like keeping up with what's going on rather than debating. I just hate to see so many people jump to hopeful conclusions all of the time without some dose of reality. I'm like the rest of you, though. I'd love a re-release with new artwork and a new song or two . . . or even the "double" Axl always envisioned. I'm curious about his quote that interviews were planned for much later. Did he plan for the lawsuit and a re-release? Is he going to build on the publicity of the HOF announcement (I doubt he wanted to wait THAT long)? You never never know what's up with Axl, and that's what keeps most of us checking back here.

[WhazUp]

I hate to rain on everyone's parade. Although the timing of this could mean that something is up, I will tell you that I am an attorney who has represented a record distributor and who has a good working knowledge of how CDs are stocked and removed from retail stores. Think about it like real estate. Distributors often pay (or negotiate) a premium for prime placement in stores (e.g., the "waterfall" racks at the ends of aisles; stand-alone displays like they had for CD) or to be in stores at all (e.g., the exclusive with Best Buy or placement in certain stores at all). Also, the store/chain typically has certain rights to return the CDs at some point (either at their discretion, or once sales slow to a certain rate, or after a certain time). In other words, they aren't stuck with the merchandise until they sell the last copy. Moreover, distributors (i.e., middle man between record labels and stores) often have it built into their contract that they will charge the label a re-stocking fee if CDs are returned to them and they have to scan, shelve, and store them. Often it costs less to destroy them than re-stock them, and the contract, again, may provide that the distributor has certain rights to destroy them, or can put the artist or label to the choice of receiving the returns, authorizing destruction, or ending up paying for storage of the returned-and-unsold CDs (which is a pretty silly thing to do if you don't think they'll get back out to the stores). It may simply be that Best Buy--especially if they are reducing their floor space for compact discs--have elected to use their space on something else, or have fulfilled their contractual obligations for how long they had to carry the product. My guess is that the unsold copies have been returned to the distributor, or were authorized for destruction upon return to save handling and re-stocking charges. After all, it is a business. The record, by accounts from the SoundScan and other folks who track the stuff, was not selling well enough in the last year or so for all remaining copies to sell out, so no signs appear to point to that being what happened.

Sorry if this is taken as bad news by anyone. I think it's a fantastic album, and one that would have sold better with some promotion, but which likely never would have had the huge commercial success of prior G n R albums because it's not that kind of album, because tastes have changed, and because the media machine right now is not geared towards giving something like it the spotlight (see Jonas Brothers, et al on the cover of the nutless Rolling Stone). I also think the band missed the boat by not making "Better" the single and having Axl do an interview with Rolling Stone or some other BIG media outlet. Rolling Stone's initial response was very positive. Also, despite all of the folks saying there was not "monumental promotion" there was definitely some serious radio attention nationally for the roll out, and that probably included the band or label paying a lot of marketing folks who work the stations directly to get airplay (e.g., FMQB). Also, ESPN was incorporating CD songs into their broadcasts, there was the Dr. Pepper deal, the Grey Cup, Wrestling, and there was some other interesting co-branding and placement. Axl just took his ball and went home for reasons unknown to me. It's a shame. Maybe he wasn't ready for his big moment and didn't appreciate it being forced on him when he wasn't at his best or in a way different than his 100% vision of the album. He recovered well, though, and had an excellent international tour. I hope he does at least some publicity in support of the U.S. tour. There's nothing wrong with advertising something you are trying to sell . . . especially if it's a good product, which it is. Unfortunately, he may not have financial backing from the label to do it, and they may be holding the last album in limbo, hoping for something better, or to keep leverage over Axl. I'd be very interested to see the settlement agreement with Azoff to see who is gaining what from the deal for the tour, and how, if at all, future commitments might be addressed.

This was not just any record sale/distribution deal. This was an exclusive deal. Your working knowledge of how CDs are normally distributed may not apply in this particular case.

Ali

At the same time that might be exactly what happened, it is all speculation at this point

[LurkingSince'06]

I hate to rain on everyone's parade. Although the timing of this could mean that something is up, I will tell you that I am an attorney who has represented a record distributor and who has a good working knowledge of how CDs are stocked and removed from retail stores. Think about it like real estate. Distributors often pay (or negotiate) a premium for prime placement in stores (e.g., the "waterfall" racks at the ends of aisles; stand-alone displays like they had for CD) or to be in stores at all (e.g., the exclusive with Best Buy or placement in certain stores at all). Also, the store/chain typically has certain rights to return the CDs at some point (either at their discretion, or once sales slow to a certain rate, or after a certain time). In other words, they aren't stuck with the merchandise until they sell the last copy. Moreover, distributors (i.e., middle man between record labels and stores) often have it built into their contract that they will charge the label a re-stocking fee if CDs are returned to them and they have to scan, shelve, and store them. Often it costs less to destroy them than re-stock them, and the contract, again, may provide that the distributor has certain rights to destroy them, or can put the artist or label to the choice of receiving the returns, authorizing destruction, or ending up paying for storage of the returned-and-unsold CDs (which is a pretty silly thing to do if you don't think they'll get back out to the stores). It may simply be that Best Buy--especially if they are reducing their floor space for compact discs--have elected to use their space on something else, or have fulfilled their contractual obligations for how long they had to carry the product. My guess is that the unsold copies have been returned to the distributor, or were authorized for destruction upon return to save handling and re-stocking charges. After all, it is a business. The record, by accounts from the SoundScan and other folks who track the stuff, was not selling well enough in the last year or so for all remaining copies to sell out, so no signs appear to point to that being what happened.

Sorry if this is taken as bad news by anyone. I think it's a fantastic album, and one that would have sold better with some promotion, but which likely never would have had the huge commercial success of prior G n R albums because it's not that kind of album, because tastes have changed, and because the media machine right now is not geared towards giving something like it the spotlight (see Jonas Brothers, et al on the cover of the nutless Rolling Stone). I also think the band missed the boat by not making "Better" the single and having Axl do an interview with Rolling Stone or some other BIG media outlet. Rolling Stone's initial response was very positive. Also, despite all of the folks saying there was not "monumental promotion" there was definitely some serious radio attention nationally for the roll out, and that probably included the band or label paying a lot of marketing folks who work the stations directly to get airplay (e.g., FMQB). Also, ESPN was incorporating CD songs into their broadcasts, there was the Dr. Pepper deal, the Grey Cup, Wrestling, and there was some other interesting co-branding and placement. Axl just took his ball and went home for reasons unknown to me. It's a shame. Maybe he wasn't ready for his big moment and didn't appreciate it being forced on him when he wasn't at his best or in a way different than his 100% vision of the album. He recovered well, though, and had an excellent international tour. I hope he does at least some publicity in support of the U.S. tour. There's nothing wrong with advertising something you are trying to sell . . . especially if it's a good product, which it is. Unfortunately, he may not have financial backing from the label to do it, and they may be holding the last album in limbo, hoping for something better, or to keep leverage over Axl. I'd be very interested to see the settlement agreement with Azoff to see who is gaining what from the deal for the tour, and how, if at all, future commitments might be addressed.

This was not just any record sale/distribution deal. This was an exclusive deal. Your working knowledge of how CDs are normally distributed may not apply in this particular case.

Ali

Absolutely true. My info was just meant to give a point of reference for what might be happening based upon industry norms. The Best Buy contract may have some basis in them, or they may have chucked EVERYTHING out the window. It's likely that at least some of the usual terms were part of the deal, though. I'm certain, too, that there there were some interesting and unusual customized terms. You generally would have some basics in there because, at the end of the day, selling CDs, even with a big name, is speculative, and you are going to share the risk if you have any sense at all. That's what negotiation is all about.

[wasted]

so there won't be any more copies of CD to buy in the US?

[Voodoochild]

so there won't be any more copies of CD to buy in the US?

Its still available on iTunes, isnt it? And its likely the easier way to have the album anyways (I know about audio quality, Im talking about regular audience, not hardcore fans).

[wasted]

so hardcore fans have CDs or vinyl and anyone else wants it can get off iTunes. seems reasonable. CDs prob won't exist in a few years anyway.

[wreckless]

Tweet from MSL:

anything i may have had planned for 10/1 is on hold.thnx 2 gnr fans 4 a wild ride.looking forward 2 the tour.wont be bothering any1 anymore.

Scheduled AGAIN...He has found a mare's nest.

'Soon' is the word?

[wasted]

In that case I think CD will be re-released and then CD II, III and IV will come out and Slash will play the superbowl next year.

so hardcore fans have CDs or vinyl and anyone else wants it can get off iTunes. seems reasonable. CDs prob won't exist in a few years anyway.

CD's will be around for a while yet as there is still a market for them especially with Country music fans so I don't see them going away anytime soon............

[Coma16]

Tweet from MSL:

anything i may have had planned for 10/1 is on hold.thnx 2 gnr fans 4 a wild ride.looking forward 2 the tour.wont be bothering any1 anymore.

Scheduled AGAIN...He has found a mare's nest.

'Soon' is the word?

Umm more like "wank" is the word... Wonder how much he got paid off...

[Guest gunns5]

By Msl setting a date of October 1st, the fat one forced gnrs management/s? hand into offering the highest amount possible quickly in order to 'pull out all the stops ' and 'make him an offer he couldn't refuse', which potentially stopped months of back and forth negotiation between both parties.

of course this is all pure speculation but hopefully its the last we have to hear (and see) of 'it'.

Edited September 30, 2011 by gunns5