The U.S. tour is selling miserably....

[saber_]

Why do you say that as though "they're" not responsible for the degree of promotion?

Hell if I know. There's all sorts of behind-the-scenes machinations we're not privy to. The fact remains though- the "promotion," as it were, is low key. Why? I dunno. Hold on lemme email Axl and ask him. ; )

I understand what you all are saying, but I bet they can still fill each and every venue they have booked. I don't accept the o.p.'s premise. He's a known rabble rouser and provided little data.

[ITW 2012]

Stop the press! Who is that? Vicky Vale, Vicky Vale.

[Angelica]

Oh, I got a live one here!!

[ITW 2012]

This town needs an enema!

[saber_]

Hold on just a minute there. "Resigned to failure"?! No no no, I disagree. How about "humble goals"?

Furthermore, you're not psychic. No U.S. shows have been played yet. You can't say "failure." The tour can still be a success, even with Axl's off-the-radar mysterious approach to promotion.

We'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

HUMBLE???? HUMBLE?????? Are you off your meds? Since when was Axl Rose ever humble? If he was humble he'd do the right thing and book a bunch of gigs in theatres and clubs. No this is not anything to do with humility, it's arrogance plain and simple. Axl won't play the smaller venues cos his ego won't let him and he can't fill the larger ones cos he's burned one too many bridges.

Since when were Guns n' Roses ever happy to settle for mediocrity? I can say failure when the band that I've loved since I was a little kid who once ruled the world are reduced to playing half full venues purely because the guy at the top can't be arsed to do the right thing by his fans, his bandmates and his legacy!

How do you know Axl isn't humble? The reality is you don't know. Axl's not the textbook-freudian-defense-mechanism person some people make him out to be. I would say he is more humble than you know.

And once again, you don't know how the tour is going to pan out. You just don't know. I'm betting each one is much more than half full. We'll see won't we? I know for sure that Rosemont Horizon in Chicago is not a"mediocre" venue.

Burned bridges? Who's off who's meds?? Just because you bought every lie that Slash told you (and yes I acknowledge he told some truths as well, so dont jump me), doesn't mean it's all true. It ain't all true. Y'know I'm sorry to invoke the S-word, but godamnit Slash waged a fucking campaign against Axl, and unfortunately, he was successful. Is Axl mister innocent? No. But neither is Slash or anyone else. They all played their part. Anyway, it just saddens me when fans like yourself can only view Axl through the lens of negativity. Do I dispute everything you said? No. But godamnit let's dispense with the hyperbolic hypochondriac drama bullshit, plz.

[Gagarin]

Okay, thread people, what kind of promotion do you think would work?

Talk shows?

You can't just call up a talk show and get on.

Local radio and TV? What's the point?

TV commercials? Doing them.

[Dazey]

Okay, thread people, what kind of promotion do you think would work?

Talk shows?

You can't just call up a talk show and get on.

It's Axl Rose! I know GnR aren't the biggest band in the world anymore but I guarantee you that anybody offered the first proper prime time one2one with Axl would jump at the chance. They know it'd make great TV and that's all that matters. Get him to do Piers Morgan then a few lightweight talkshows. I bet you nobody would turn down the opportunity.

Local radio and TV? What's the point?

Lots of people locally listen to local radio and watch local TV. It's a way of getting the word out simple as that.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Dazey Does Dallas

[ITW 2012]

Okay, thread people, what kind of promotion do you think would work?

The monumental kind.

[saber_]

It ain't over til it's over. And in the case of the U.S. leg of the tour, it ain't even began.

You people act like you know what's going to happen. You don't. Quit acting like you know for a fact there will be half-full venues.

It ain't over yet.

[Dazey]

Burned bridges? Who's off who's meds?? Just because you bought every lie that Slash told you (and yes I acknowledge he told some truths as well, so dont jump me), doesn't mean it's all true. It ain't all true. Y'know I'm sorry to invoke the S-word, but godamnit Slash waged a fucking campaign against Axl, and unfortunately, he was successful. Is Axl mister innocent? No. But neither is Slash or anyone else. They all played their part. Anyway, it just saddens me when fans like yourself can only view Axl through the lens of negativity. Do I dispute everything you said? No. But godamnit let's dispense with the hyperbolic hypochondriac drama bullshit, plz.

What the fuck has Slash got to do with constant late starts, cancelled tours, total lack of contact with fans, refusal to promote tours and dearth of new material since 1991? Just saying man but I'm talking about Axl and Axl alone. it's got nothing to do with any of the old band so why bring them into this? I don't view everything Axl does negatively but right now there's not a lot to be positive about.

[Guest gunns5]

The airport kind usually works well.

[saber_]

What the fuck has Slash got to do with constant late starts, cancelled tours, total lack of contact with fans, refusal to promote tours and dearth of new material since 1991? Just saying man but I'm talking about Axl and Axl alone. it's got nothing to do with any of the old band so why bring them into this? I don't view everything Axl does negatively but right now there's not a lot to be positive about.

My point invoking the S-word (which I admit was perhaps obtuse) is that a lot of your negativity stems from media sources, not actual factual data and observations.

Here are some choice quotes from you: "resigned to failure," "his ego won't let him," "burned one too many bridges," "settle for mediocrity," "I can say failure because blah blah blah," "guy at the top can't be arsed to do the right thing by his fans, his bandmates, and his legacy."

What do I see there? I see a negativist, bitter, glass half empty perception. That's what I see. You're pissing and moaning, and for what? And why? Why? Because you PERCEIVE things that way.

And as far as:

#1 "constant late starts": Axl's always been tardy to gigs. Please.

#2 "cancelled tours": Ok fine. A cancelled tour. Whatever.

#3 "total lack of contact": Gee i guess you haven't seen all the videos of him signing autographs, and all the photos of him with fans. So a "total lack", to quote you, is nothing but more of your drama queen bullshit.

#4 "refusal to promote tours": Well gee ok, you got me there.

#5 "dearth of new material": Yeah i want more music too. But at some point, you just have to accept the reality and quit trying to impose your wants and desires on the band. It is what it is. And quite frankly, I still dig it. If you don't, then why do you keep coming back for more? Ahh, gotchya there.

There's plenty to be positive about. I mean seriously dude, you sound like we're in a Tim Burton movie or something with all the gloomy foreboding drama you're cooking up.

[bran]

What the fuck has Slash got to do with constant late starts, cancelled tours, total lack of contact with fans, refusal to promote tours and dearth of new material since 1991? Just saying man but I'm talking about Axl and Axl alone. it's got nothing to do with any of the old band so why bring them into this? I don't view everything Axl does negatively but right now there's not a lot to be positive about.

My point invoking the S-word (which I admit was perhaps obtuse) is that a lot of your negativity stems from media sources, not actual factual data and observations.

Here are some choice quotes from you: "resigned to failure," "his ego won't let him," "burned one too many bridges," "settle for mediocrity," "I can say failure because blah blah blah," "guy at the top can't be arsed to do the right thing by his fans, his bandmates, and his legacy."

What do I see there? I see a negativist, bitter, glass half empty perception. That's what I see. You're pissing and moaning, and for what? And why? Why? Because you PERCEIVE things that way.

And as far as:

#1 "constant late starts": Axl's always been tardy to gigs. Please.

#2 "cancelled tours": Ok fine. A cancelled tour. Whatever.

#3 "total lack of contact": Gee i guess you haven't seen all the videos of him signing autographs, and all the photos of him with fans. So a "total lack", to quote you, is nothing but more of your drama queen bullshit.

#4 "refusal to promote tours": Well gee ok, you got me there.

#5 "dearth of new material": Yeah i want more music too. But at some point, you just have to accept the reality and quit trying to impose your wants and desires on the band. It is what it is. And quite frankly, I still dig it. If you don't, then why do you keep coming back for more? Ahh, gotchya there.

There's plenty to be positive about. I mean seriously dude, you sound like we're in a Tim Burton movie or something with all the gloomy foreboding drama you're cooking up.

+1

[Dazey]

And as far as:

#1 "constant late starts": Axl's always been tardy to gigs. Please.

#2 "cancelled tours": Ok fine. A cancelled tour. Whatever.

#3 "total lack of contact": Gee i guess you haven't seen all the videos of him signing autographs, and all the photos of him with fans. So a "total lack", to quote you, is nothing but more of your drama queen bullshit.

#4 "refusal to promote tours": Well gee ok, you got me there.

#5 "dearth of new material": Yeah i want more music too. But at some point, you just have to accept the reality and quit trying to impose your wants and desires on the band. It is what it is. And quite frankly, I still dig it. If you don't, then why do you keep coming back for more? Ahh, gotchya there.

Please! The odd photo with a fan or an autograph isn't communication! I'm talking about letting us know details of what they're working on in the studio, how many new songs have been written, when the next album's due to be released. Communication about Guns n' Roses!

Every other band manages it it so why can't they? You appear to agree with the rest of my points though for some reason you don't seem to think there's anything wrong with them. I'm glad you don't think a tour being cancelled is a bad thing though.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Dazey Does Dallas

[droezle]

And as far as:

#1 "constant late starts": Axl's always been tardy to gigs. Please.

#2 "cancelled tours": Ok fine. A cancelled tour. Whatever.

#3 "total lack of contact": Gee i guess you haven't seen all the videos of him signing autographs, and all the photos of him with fans. So a "total lack", to quote you, is nothing but more of your drama queen bullshit.

#4 "refusal to promote tours": Well gee ok, you got me there.

#5 "dearth of new material": Yeah i want more music too. But at some point, you just have to accept the reality and quit trying to impose your wants and desires on the band. It is what it is. And quite frankly, I still dig it. If you don't, then why do you keep coming back for more? Ahh, gotchya there.

Please! The odd photo with a fan or an autograph isn't communication! I'm talking about letting us know details of what they're working on in the studio, how many new songs have been written, when the next album's due to be released. Communication about Guns n' Roses! Every other band manages it it so why can't they? You appear to agree with the rest of my points though for some reason you don't seem to think there's anything wrong with them. I'm glad you don't think a tour being cancelled is a bad thing though.

+ 1

[Gagarin]

^He's given some of that stuff if you care to research, and... last time he was here it was a total *FACEPALM* fest among the people on the boards and their wierdness. It's a wonder he stayed here as long as he did with all the characters and dumb questions and comments around here.

And what do you expect? A blog about what's going on?

Sure, there's a happy medium where I'd like to see them do to maintain and build fanbase contact, and then there's unrealistic and crazy. I think you're being unrealistic and crazy.

All we know is they're touring.

And they're not touring The General or whatever, they're touring.

Axl can't do whatever he wants whenever he wants.

How would he communicate anything if he doesn't know or isn't sure? Would you rather have them talk about a follow up without it realistically ready to go and we get hopes up and start "waiting", or would you rather have them not talk about it...

...and take things on face value, as in, they're just touring?

Edited October 22, 2011 by Gagarin

[Dazey]

^He's given some of that stuff if you care to research, and... last time he was here it was a total *FACEPALM* fest among the people on the boards and their wierdness. It's a wonder he stayed here as long as he did with all the characters and dumb questions and comments around here.

And what do you expect? A blog about what's going on?

Sure, there's a happy medium where I'd like to see them do to maintain and build fanbase contact, and then there's unrealistic and crazy. I think you're being unrealistic and crazy.

All we know is they're touring.

And they're not touring The General or whatever, they're touring.

Axl can't do whatever he wants whenever he wants.

How would he communicate anything if he doesn't know or isn't sure? Would you rather have them talk about a follow up without it realistically ready to go and we get hopes up and start "waiting", or would you rather have them not talk about it...

...and take things on face value, as in, they're just touring?

"Axl here! Just in the studio laying down some tracks for the new album"

"Axl here! DJ and I had a real good time writing last night think something really might be coming together. Here's a clip of us jamming on a new idea"

Why not something like that? Two seconds on Twitter and suddenly the fans feel like they're part of something again?

[saber_]

Please! The odd photo with a fan or an autograph isn't communication! I'm talking about letting us know details of what they're working on in the studio, how many new songs have been written, when the next album's due to be released. Communication about Guns n' Roses!

Dude. Axl's been off the radar for a while now. I figured you'd be used to it by now. However, you seem to be emotionally raw about it as if Axl just started being aloof. I mean, will you ever be desensitized and just accept that Axl is very private and perhaps eccentric? He is an artist, after all.

Every other band manages it it so why can't they? You appear to agree with the rest of my points though for some reason you don't seem to think there's anything wrong with them. I'm glad you don't think a tour being cancelled is a bad thing though.

Well damnit, GnR isn't every other band. I mean, here's the deal: if you haven't figured out by now how it's going to be, you never will. But you're only making yourself more bitter by not letting it go.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Axl being late. I'm late to work all the time. I don't think it's that much of a crime they don't promote the tour. You see, your viewpoints may hold some validity, but for fuck's sake there are actually really truly other points of view. GnR don't wanna promote the tour. I DON'T GIVE A SHIT. I don't take it personally. I don't cupcake this forum over it (i'm not saying you are, but others definitely are). As for your other points, please pay attention to my semantics. I have accepted the reality, and honestly, the things that are apparently bothering you so much... aren't bothering me. And yes that's real. That's how I really feel. I'm cool with whatever from GnR. I also tend to look at things from alternate points of view. You seem to be hellbent on reliving the glory days and having Axl & GnR imitate the status quo. Hey that's great, but for me, I'm just happy I get to go to a gig and hear the music I love being performed in a pretty kick-ass fashion. Simple as that.

As for the tour cancellation... I dunno the details on that. But as we GnR fans should know by now... GnR is sometimes a volatile entity. Deal with it. lulz

[Gagarin]

^He's given some of that stuff if you care to research, and... last time he was here it was a total *FACEPALM* fest among the people on the boards and their wierdness. It's a wonder he stayed here as long as he did with all the characters and dumb questions and comments around here.

And what do you expect? A blog about what's going on?

Sure, there's a happy medium where I'd like to see them do to maintain and build fanbase contact, and then there's unrealistic and crazy. I think you're being unrealistic and crazy.

All we know is they're touring.

And they're not touring The General or whatever, they're touring.

Axl can't do whatever he wants whenever he wants.

How would he communicate anything if he doesn't know or isn't sure? Would you rather have them talk about a follow up without it realistically ready to go and we get hopes up and start "waiting", or would you rather have them not talk about it...

...and take things on face value, as in, they're just touring?

"Axl here! Just in the studio laying down some tracks for the new album"

"Axl here! DJ and I had a real good time writing last night think something really might be coming together. Here's a clip of us jamming on a new idea"

Why not something like that? Two seconds on Twitter and suddenly the fans feel like they're part of something again?

Their Twitter and Facebook is pretty active, actually.

Axl's isn't.

But what exactly would you gain by those examples?

A cock tease? What if they don't have a damn chance in hell in getting a CD released through Universal and don't have a solution for it?

You're pretending like they have all the answers.

[Dazey]

Please! The odd photo with a fan or an autograph isn't communication! I'm talking about letting us know details of what they're working on in the studio, how many new songs have been written, when the next album's due to be released. Communication about Guns n' Roses!

Dude. Axl's been off the radar for a while now. I figured you'd be used to it by now. However, you seem to be emotionally raw about it as if Axl just started being aloof. I mean, will you ever be desensitized and just accept that Axl is very private and perhaps eccentric? He is an artist, after all.

Every other band manages it it so why can't they? You appear to agree with the rest of my points though for some reason you don't seem to think there's anything wrong with them. I'm glad you don't think a tour being cancelled is a bad thing though.

Well damnit, GnR isn't every other band. I mean, here's the deal: if you haven't figured out by now how it's going to be, you never will. But you're only making yourself more bitter by not letting it go.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Axl being late. I'm late to work all the time. I don't think it's that much of a crime they don't promote the tour. You see, your viewpoints may hold some validity, but for fuck's sake there are actually really truly other points of view. GnR don't wanna promote the tour. I DON'T GIVE A SHIT. I don't take it personally. I don't cupcake this forum over it (i'm not saying you are, but others definitely are). As for your other points, please pay attention to my semantics. I have accepted the reality, and honestly, the things that are apparently bothering you so much... aren't bothering me. And yes that's real. That's how I really feel. I'm cool with whatever from GnR. I also tend to look at things from alternate points of view. You seem to be hellbent on reliving the glory days and having Axl & GnR imitate the status quo. Hey that's great, but for me, I'm just happy I get to go to a gig and hear the music I love being performed in a pretty kick-ass fashion. Simple as that.

As for the tour cancellation... I dunno the details on that. But as we GnR fans should know by now... GnR is sometimes a volatile entity. Deal with it. lulz

I know how it is, I've been a fan of this band since the beginning but the thread is asking about the reasons behind the issues and I'm offering my opinions. I stopped losing sleep over Axl and his antics years ago but there's a discussion to be had here and I'm not going to say fair enough we all know how it is so let's just leave it at that. We know not to expect new music. We know he's always going to be late and we know we're not going to hear much from him but that doesn't mean we have to like it. In fact it's not even about not liking it but some people actively praise it! Oh Axl came on two hours late and the plug was pulled isn't that rock n roll? Oh Axl was still in the air when the riot broke out in Philly isn't that so rock n roll?

To be honest it's not Axl that bothers me so much as the people on here who kiss his ass no matter what. You'll notice pretty much all of my negative comments are in response to people praising things like half empty arenas and late starts. I accepted his faults a long time ago but the people who praise the bullshit are one of the main reasons it's carried on for so long I believe. Nobody needs to be told they're right all the time. Axl's surrounded himself with yes men since the old band split and I think if more people had been willing to call him on the bullshit we'd have seen more music by now.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Dazey Does Dallas

[Dazey]

But what exactly would you gain by those examples?

A cock tease? What if they don't have a damn chance in hell in getting a CD released through Universal and don't have a solution for it?

You're pretending like they have all the answers.

Here's how it works. Axl and the band go into a room and write some songs. Then they go into a studio and record them. Then they hand them over to the record company who release them and organise promotion in conjunction with the band. It's that simple it really is! You think if Axl handed over a CD full of cool tunes to Universal they wouldn't make the effort to knock them into shape and put them on the shelves? Bullshit but it's never that simple in GnR world even though it seems to be for every other band.

[Gagarin]

But what exactly would you gain by those examples?

A cock tease? What if they don't have a damn chance in hell in getting a CD released through Universal and don't have a solution for it?

You're pretending like they have all the answers.

Here's how it works. Axl and the band go into a room and write some songs. Then they go into a studio and record them. Then they hand them over to the record company who release them and organise promotion in conjunction with the band. It's that simple it really is! You think if Axl handed over a CD full of cool tunes to Universal they wouldn't make the effort to knock them into shape and put them on the shelves? Bullshit but it's never that simple in GnR world even though it seems to be for every other band.

No no no... you don't have a clue how bad a recording contract skews toward the record company. They don't have to do squat. They can reject whatever record, for whatever reason.

Indefinitely.

And sometimes they don't even have to let you out of the contract.

Do we... 1.) spend money to market this thing, and have it (maybe?) flop... 2.) don't spend much money to market it, and have it (probably) flop... or 3.) don't do anything for now.

Guess what - shareholders don't like news stories about 'flops'. Not doing anything could be the right business move for them.

Record companies don't just rubber stamp things.

Axl probably doesn't have the power or resources to do whatever he wants. And if they really did lose money on the last tour (as his lawyer's reply to Azoff's suit said) then I imagine plans were suspended.

[Dazey]

But what exactly would you gain by those examples?

A cock tease? What if they don't have a damn chance in hell in getting a CD released through Universal and don't have a solution for it?

You're pretending like they have all the answers.

Here's how it works. Axl and the band go into a room and write some songs. Then they go into a studio and record them. Then they hand them over to the record company who release them and organise promotion in conjunction with the band. It's that simple it really is! You think if Axl handed over a CD full of cool tunes to Universal they wouldn't make the effort to knock them into shape and put them on the shelves? Bullshit but it's never that simple in GnR world even though it seems to be for every other band.

No no no... you don't have a clue how bad a recording contract skews toward the record company. They don't have to do squat. They can reject whatever record, for whatever reason.

Indefinitely.

And sometimes they don't even have to let you out of the contract.

Do we... 1.) spend money to market this thing, and have it (maybe?) flop... 2.) don't spend much money to market it, and have it (probably) flop... or 3.) don't do anything for now.

Guess what - shareholders don't like news stories about 'flops'. Not doing anything could be the right business move for them.

Record companies don't just rubber stamp things.

Axl probably doesn't have the power or resources to do whatever he wants. And if they really did lose money on the last tour (as his lawyer's reply to Azoff's suit said) then I imagine plans were suspended.

Please! I'm sorry but he's more than capable of writing an album's worth of songs and recording them. The Best Buy deal got Universal their money back and I'm sure they would have no problems releasing another record as long as it wasn't costing them a fortune. Stick it on iTunes and leave it at that. There're always ways if the music exists and if it's good enough.

[Dazey]

The Best Buy deal got Universal their money back

No I don't think so.

They've recorded 2-3 albums worth of material in the course of maybe 8 years, until Universal stopped funding them in 2004.

So fucking release it!!!!!!!!!!

[Crowebar]

Axl don't seem to care, so fuck it, just as long as the tour doesn't get cancelled due to the poor ticket sales.

That's what concerns me. Clear Channel wasn't above pulling the plug in 2002, and I still suspect that poor ticket sales had to do with axing some of the shows in 06 & early 07.

I think the 2 riots had a lot to do with it.

Yes, I agree about the 2 fucking riots. They most certainly didn't help.

And just what the fuck is all of this goddamned nonsense with the fucking this guy's a fucking cupcake and that fucking guy's a fucking cupcake and the other fucking dude that's hiding behind the obstructed view concrete post is just a fucking cupcake that's fucking trolling better than all of the other cupcakes fucking horse-shit anyway??? You're all fucking man...

Give this fucking cupcake shit up once and for all people. Am I the only one that realizes that Charlie fucking Sheen killed the whole use of the fucking word cupcake by his overuse/misuse of the goddamned fucking word or fucking what??? :devil:

Fucking un-fucking-believable.....