The U.S. tour is selling miserably....

[iftheworld]

If anything this means better seats for us guns fans. Noone ever went to a show to see how full it was. You got to look at the stage and listen.

[Snowmass]

ok, so i was checking out stub hub and they showed less than

1,000 tickets left for each show...

also, how can stubhub already have tickets to shows that have

not been officially opened for purchase or pressale?

they also appear to show apparent stage set up arrangement for shows?

Because SH, TM and the artists are all in bed together. Long story, go ahead and google Trent Reznor on the subject, he sounds off on it from some article a few years back. SH gets a bunch of premium seats, if/when they don't sell they end up back on TM. And ofcourse if they do sell (at the inflated price) the artist gets a piece of pie. Something like that. Put it this way, rarely does a person get a decent tix just off plain old TM at face value, unless ofcourse the artist has troubles selling (see GnR these days).

[HOOSIER GUNZ]

oh...thanx for uh...clearing that up for me snowmass

[kyrie]

Akl Rose is the only singer in the history of RNR, which is a completely new band contained much of the glory of old band.James Hatfield and Jon Bon Jovi without the original members of their bands would not be able to fill arenas, but would be played in clubs in USA.Sa On the other hand to sell 10,000 tickets is definitely a success.

and don't forget GNR filled stadiums and arenas across the globe in last two years.

What about Dave Mustaine?

Him also...also he dosn't get much hell about lineup changes like Axl does.

I think a lot of it has to do with the sound of the music. Megadeth has always had that core sound that sounds like Megadeth regardless of the lineup. Regardless of anyone's views on past band members in GNR, they did help contribute a specific sound to the band. I always maintained that if the new GNR material sounded more like old Guns the public wouldn't care as much (but then again I don't care about public opinion anyway lol). The new lineup is fantastic but it definately has a different overall musical sound that barely resembles old-Guns whereas Megadeth has always sounded like Megadeth

yes, Mustaine is Megadeth. it really does not matter who plays with him, as long as they can play. Though Friedman is still highly missed. If CD was more like old GNR it would have been different, new members yes but sounding like good old GNR, but it was new sound and new members, too much for some people. Megadeth did Risk, as much as I like the album, it`s not really Megadeth....same thing kinda happened with CD.

I don't fully buy the "CD isn't enough like old GN'R" because it sounds pretty much like Use Your Illusion 3 at times. There Was a Time could have been right on there. Even Catcher, Madagascar, Street of Dreams, This I Love... maybe even IRS. Sure there are some tracks with different styles but I don't think it's that radically different.

Also - Mustaine took some heat after Youthenasia, the albums after that started really losing it, lost their edge, they needed to get the thrash back. Megadeth is a great example though. So are:

The Smashing Pumpkins

Alice in Chains

Hole

Bush

Iron Maiden

Wolfmother

Evanescence

And probably a ton of other bands who have lost most of their members. GN'R was just the biggest.

[WhazUp]

Akl Rose is the only singer in the history of RNR, which is a completely new band contained much of the glory of old band.James Hatfield and Jon Bon Jovi without the original members of their bands would not be able to fill arenas, but would be played in clubs in USA.Sa On the other hand to sell 10,000 tickets is definitely a success.

and don't forget GNR filled stadiums and arenas across the globe in last two years.

What about Dave Mustaine?

Him also...also he dosn't get much hell about lineup changes like Axl does.

I think a lot of it has to do with the sound of the music. Megadeth has always had that core sound that sounds like Megadeth regardless of the lineup. Regardless of anyone's views on past band members in GNR, they did help contribute a specific sound to the band. I always maintained that if the new GNR material sounded more like old Guns the public wouldn't care as much (but then again I don't care about public opinion anyway lol). The new lineup is fantastic but it definately has a different overall musical sound that barely resembles old-Guns whereas Megadeth has always sounded like Megadeth

yes, Mustaine is Megadeth. it really does not matter who plays with him, as long as they can play. Though Friedman is still highly missed. If CD was more like old GNR it would have been different, new members yes but sounding like good old GNR, but it was new sound and new members, too much for some people. Megadeth did Risk, as much as I like the album, it`s not really Megadeth....same thing kinda happened with CD.

I don't fully buy the "CD isn't enough like old GN'R" because it sounds pretty much like Use Your Illusion 3 at times. There Was a Time could have been right on there. Even Catcher, Madagascar, Street of Dreams, This I Love... maybe even IRS. Sure there are some tracks with different styles but I don't think it's that radically different.

Also - Mustaine took some heat after Youthenasia, the albums after that started really losing it, lost their edge, they needed to get the thrash back. Megadeth is a great example though. So are:

The Smashing Pumpkins

Alice in Chains

Hole

Bush

Iron Maiden

Wolfmother

Evanescence

And probably a ton of other bands who have lost most of their members. GN'R was just the biggest.

The ratio of retaining the same musical personality was more prominent from Appetite to the Illusions, not the Illusions to Chinese Democracy. It is barely there nowadays, and the bands you mentioned still kept their basic sonic identity despite the lineup changes (maybe except for Iron Maiden which was less "punk" after Di'anno left and the Pumpkins who constantly get ridiculed for their lineup changes).

Edited October 20, 2011 by WhazUp

[tat2d1]

also, how can stubhub already have tickets to shows that have

not been officially opened for purchase or pressale?

Because some artists, and I'm not accusing Axl of this, have a certain percentage of their tickets held to be put on the "secondary market" ,i.e. Stub Hub and other "ticket brokering" sites. It's usually pop stars that pull that crap. It's basically scalping your own fans when the tickets are costing twice as much (or more) as face value. Katy Perry is one who supposedly does it.

Here are a couple articles about it: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123672740386088613.html

http://evolver.fm/2011/04/04/stubhub-says-artists-promoters-venues-and-fans-not-scalpers-cause-price-inflation-and-ticket-shortages/

[Bailey15]

The problem with the ticket sales is that they are selling for premium prices, as if they were the 1991 version of the band.

This version has been out of America for quite a while and these promoters can't expect them to sell as well as the 1991 version. There just isn't AS MUCH demand. the promoter should have set their price point at about half of what they did. What's better for their investment....

-high priced concert with a half or third of capacity

-full arenas and great word of mouth?

these ticket prices are going to scare away some of the casual fans, especially since there is no new album, little promotion, and negative reviews thus far.

[GNR_Orlando]

The Orlando show seems to be selling nicely... Less than 300 actual seats left.. (Not Counting General Admission)

The prices are really low on stubhub however, makes we wish I would have waited and got my seats from stub hub...

Oh well, I did not buy the tickets to re-sell them.

So Whatever.

[batman007]

The Orlando show seems to be selling nicely... Less than 300 actual seats left.. (Not Counting General Admission)

The prices are really low on stubhub however, makes we wish I would have waited and got my seats from stub hub...

Oh well, I did not buy the tickets to re-sell them.

So Whatever.

I was checking that out too. Come showtime, maybe we will have a sellout.

[GNR_Orlando]

The Orlando show seems to be selling nicely... Less than 300 actual seats left.. (Not Counting General Admission)

The prices are really low on stubhub however, makes we wish I would have waited and got my seats from stub hub...

Oh well, I did not buy the tickets to re-sell them.

So Whatever.

I was checking that out too. Come showtime, maybe we will have a sellout.

Just wondering...

Are they using the Upperdeck?

I know they did with Bon Jovi, but I did not see any with Ticketmaster, or on Stubhub.

[Dazey]

Not that I mean to carry on beating this particular dead horse but this is what you call a success! Stone Roses sold 220,000 tickets in one morning today with the first 150,000 going in less than 15 minutes. They had to add another 75,000 capacity gig due to demand which also sold out in minutes. That's about 10,000 tickets a minute on average or 2 minutes to fill one of the areans on this tour.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/oct/21/stone-roses-reunion-shows-sell-out

[tat2d1]

The Orlando show seems to be selling nicely... Less than 300 actual seats left.. (Not Counting General Admission)

Just because StubHub only has less than 300 seats left doesn't really mean a thing. How many tickets are left available through Ticketmaster? No way of us knowing because TM doesn't post those numbers.

Maybe Blabbermouth will end up posting attendance numbers like they do for other bands sometimes, once the tour is over.

[Snowmass]

oh...thanx for uh...clearing that up for me snowmass

Dude- here is Reznors explanation with full link below:

"The venue, the promoter, the ticketing agency and often the artist camp (artist, management and agent) take tickets from the pool of available seats and feed them directly to the re-seller (which from this point on will be referred to by their true name: SCALPER).... StubHub.com is an example of a re-seller / scalper. So is TicketsNow.com."

Trent Reznor Blasts Ticketmaster....

http://stereogum.com/58831/trent_reznor_blasts_ticketmaster_and_the_artists_w/house300/

[Young_Gun]

Akl Rose is the only singer in the history of RNR, which is a completely new band contained much of the glory of old band.James Hatfield and Jon Bon Jovi without the original members of their bands would not be able to fill arenas, but would be played in clubs in USA.Sa On the other hand to sell 10,000 tickets is definitely a success.

and don't forget GNR filled stadiums and arenas across the globe in last two years.

What about Dave Mustaine?

Him also...also he dosn't get much hell about lineup changes like Axl does.

I think a lot of it has to do with the sound of the music. Megadeth has always had that core sound that sounds like Megadeth regardless of the lineup. Regardless of anyone's views on past band members in GNR, they did help contribute a specific sound to the band. I always maintained that if the new GNR material sounded more like old Guns the public wouldn't care as much (but then again I don't care about public opinion anyway lol). The new lineup is fantastic but it definately has a different overall musical sound that barely resembles old-Guns whereas Megadeth has always sounded like Megadeth

yes, Mustaine is Megadeth. it really does not matter who plays with him, as long as they can play. Though Friedman is still highly missed. If CD was more like old GNR it would have been different, new members yes but sounding like good old GNR, but it was new sound and new members, too much for some people. Megadeth did Risk, as much as I like the album, it`s not really Megadeth....same thing kinda happened with CD.

I don't fully buy the "CD isn't enough like old GN'R" because it sounds pretty much like Use Your Illusion 3 at times. There Was a Time could have been right on there. Even Catcher, Madagascar, Street of Dreams, This I Love... maybe even IRS. Sure there are some tracks with different styles but I don't think it's that radically different.

Also - Mustaine took some heat after Youthenasia, the albums after that started really losing it, lost their edge, they needed to get the thrash back. Megadeth is a great example though. So are:

The Smashing Pumpkins

Alice in Chains

Hole

Bush

Iron Maiden

Wolfmother

Evanescence

And probably a ton of other bands who have lost most of their members. GN'R was just the biggest.

All those bands still have the primary songwriters(Corgan, Rossdale, Amy Lee, Cantrell). Here is another piece I wrote which details the major difference between those bands and Guns:

Alot of those bands mentioned with different line up changes still retain the main songwriter/s. Dave Mustaine pretty much wrote 95% of Megadeth material, from the start. Billy Corgan also wrote 95% of the Smashing Pumpkins material from day one. Jerry Cantrell wrote the bulk of Alice in Chains songs(most of the instrumental, and probably 50% of the lyrics). Same with Lemmy of Motorhead, Dave Grohl of the Foo Fighters etc etc. Axl was never the main songwriter, that honor mostly goes to Izzy. The fact that Axl also did not play an instrument in addition to vocals hurts as well, as all the aforementioned individuals played guitar/bass and wrote lyrics, therefore are a pivotal part of the sound of the band. The key member or members still function in those bands. The same cannot be said about current day Guns N' Roses.

All those aforementioned artists wrote most of the lyrics and instrumentation for their songs, so the main essence of the band remained intact. This was not the case in Guns N' Roses. Guns N' Roses was the sum of all it's parts. Even Adler's loose drumming was significant to the sound of those songs. Duff's basslines were melodic and stood out in a time where most bassists would simply follow the rhythm guitar. Slash's wild bluesy solos were full of passion and complimented Axl's piercing vocals perfectly over Stradlin's hooks. You are now left with 1/5th of that sound. It's different when you compare it to say Megadeth, where Dave Mustaine always did the vocals, lyrics and rhythm guitar, and about 40% of the solos.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Young_Gun

[moreblack]

Iron Maiden is not a great example.

[Young_Gun]

Iron Maiden is not a great example.

None of them are a good example because the core member/s are still active in the band. I have NO PROBLEM with Axl touring and producing albums under the Guns N' Roses moniker. I saw them live in 2007, purchased Chinese Democracy on both CD and vinyl format, paid $80 for an official Guns N' Roses cap etc. But when people say "oh but Megadeth/Smashing Pumpkins/Maiden/Alice in Chains had line up changes, how come no one complains about that?' it ticks me as it is not the same thing.

[Ali]

Akl Rose is the only singer in the history of RNR, which is a completely new band contained much of the glory of old band.James Hatfield and Jon Bon Jovi without the original members of their bands would not be able to fill arenas, but would be played in clubs in USA.Sa On the other hand to sell 10,000 tickets is definitely a success.

and don't forget GNR filled stadiums and arenas across the globe in last two years.

What about Dave Mustaine?

Him also...also he dosn't get much hell about lineup changes like Axl does.

I think a lot of it has to do with the sound of the music. Megadeth has always had that core sound that sounds like Megadeth regardless of the lineup. Regardless of anyone's views on past band members in GNR, they did help contribute a specific sound to the band. I always maintained that if the new GNR material sounded more like old Guns the public wouldn't care as much (but then again I don't care about public opinion anyway lol). The new lineup is fantastic but it definately has a different overall musical sound that barely resembles old-Guns whereas Megadeth has always sounded like Megadeth

yes, Mustaine is Megadeth. it really does not matter who plays with him, as long as they can play. Though Friedman is still highly missed. If CD was more like old GNR it would have been different, new members yes but sounding like good old GNR, but it was new sound and new members, too much for some people. Megadeth did Risk, as much as I like the album, it`s not really Megadeth....same thing kinda happened with CD.

I don't fully buy the "CD isn't enough like old GN'R" because it sounds pretty much like Use Your Illusion 3 at times. There Was a Time could have been right on there. Even Catcher, Madagascar, Street of Dreams, This I Love... maybe even IRS. Sure there are some tracks with different styles but I don't think it's that radically different.

Also - Mustaine took some heat after Youthenasia, the albums after that started really losing it, lost their edge, they needed to get the thrash back. Megadeth is a great example though. So are:

The Smashing Pumpkins

Alice in Chains

Hole

Bush

Iron Maiden

Wolfmother

Evanescence

And probably a ton of other bands who have lost most of their members. GN'R was just the biggest.

All those bands still have the primary songwriters(Corgan, Rossdale, Amy Lee, Cantrell). Here is another piece I wrote which details the major difference between those bands and Guns:

Alot of those bands mentioned with different line up changes still retain the main songwriter/s. Dave Mustaine pretty much wrote 95% of Megadeth material, from the start. Billy Corgan also wrote 95% of the Smashing Pumpkins material from day one. Jerry Cantrell wrote the bulk of Alice in Chains songs(most of the instrumental, and probably 50% of the lyrics). Same with Lemmy of Motorhead, Dave Grohl of the Foo Fighters etc etc. Axl was never the main songwriter, that honor mostly goes to Izzy. The fact that Axl also did not play an instrument in addition to vocals hurts as well, as all the aforementioned individuals played guitar/bass and wrote lyrics, therefore are a pivotal part of the sound of the band. The key member or members still function in those bands. The same cannot be said about current day Guns N' Roses.

All those aforementioned artists wrote most of the lyrics and instrumentation for their songs, so the main essence of the band remained intact. This was not the case in Guns N' Roses. Guns N' Roses was the sum of all it's parts. Even Adler's loose drumming was significant to the sound of those songs. Duff's basslines were melodic and stood out in a time where most bassists would simply follow the rhythm guitar. Slash's wild bluesy solos were full of passion and complimented Axl's piercing vocals perfectly over Stradlin's hooks. You are now left with 1/5th of that sound. It's different when you compare it to say Megadeth, where Dave Mustaine always did the vocals, lyrics and rhythm guitar, and about 40% of the solos.

I'll give you the Bush and Smashing Pumpkins examples, but you are wrong about Evanescence and Alice In Chains. Layne Staley co-wrote many songs with Jerry Cantrell and wrote on his own "Hate to Feel" and "Angry Chair", the latter was a single.

You are dead wrong about Evanescence. Amy Lee only wrote one song on her own on the debut album and three on her own on the second album. Actually, the Evanescence example is a very good one of a singer that doesn't get nearly the shit Axl does for continuing on with multiple new iterations of her band.

Ali

[Young_Gun]

Akl Rose is the only singer in the history of RNR, which is a completely new band contained much of the glory of old band.James Hatfield and Jon Bon Jovi without the original members of their bands would not be able to fill arenas, but would be played in clubs in USA.Sa On the other hand to sell 10,000 tickets is definitely a success.

and don't forget GNR filled stadiums and arenas across the globe in last two years.

What about Dave Mustaine?

Him also...also he dosn't get much hell about lineup changes like Axl does.

I think a lot of it has to do with the sound of the music. Megadeth has always had that core sound that sounds like Megadeth regardless of the lineup. Regardless of anyone's views on past band members in GNR, they did help contribute a specific sound to the band. I always maintained that if the new GNR material sounded more like old Guns the public wouldn't care as much (but then again I don't care about public opinion anyway lol). The new lineup is fantastic but it definately has a different overall musical sound that barely resembles old-Guns whereas Megadeth has always sounded like Megadeth

yes, Mustaine is Megadeth. it really does not matter who plays with him, as long as they can play. Though Friedman is still highly missed. If CD was more like old GNR it would have been different, new members yes but sounding like good old GNR, but it was new sound and new members, too much for some people. Megadeth did Risk, as much as I like the album, it`s not really Megadeth....same thing kinda happened with CD.

I don't fully buy the "CD isn't enough like old GN'R" because it sounds pretty much like Use Your Illusion 3 at times. There Was a Time could have been right on there. Even Catcher, Madagascar, Street of Dreams, This I Love... maybe even IRS. Sure there are some tracks with different styles but I don't think it's that radically different.

Also - Mustaine took some heat after Youthenasia, the albums after that started really losing it, lost their edge, they needed to get the thrash back. Megadeth is a great example though. So are:

The Smashing Pumpkins

Alice in Chains

Hole

Bush

Iron Maiden

Wolfmother

Evanescence

And probably a ton of other bands who have lost most of their members. GN'R was just the biggest.

All those bands still have the primary songwriters(Corgan, Rossdale, Amy Lee, Cantrell). Here is another piece I wrote which details the major difference between those bands and Guns:

Alot of those bands mentioned with different line up changes still retain the main songwriter/s. Dave Mustaine pretty much wrote 95% of Megadeth material, from the start. Billy Corgan also wrote 95% of the Smashing Pumpkins material from day one. Jerry Cantrell wrote the bulk of Alice in Chains songs(most of the instrumental, and probably 50% of the lyrics). Same with Lemmy of Motorhead, Dave Grohl of the Foo Fighters etc etc. Axl was never the main songwriter, that honor mostly goes to Izzy. The fact that Axl also did not play an instrument in addition to vocals hurts as well, as all the aforementioned individuals played guitar/bass and wrote lyrics, therefore are a pivotal part of the sound of the band. The key member or members still function in those bands. The same cannot be said about current day Guns N' Roses.

All those aforementioned artists wrote most of the lyrics and instrumentation for their songs, so the main essence of the band remained intact. This was not the case in Guns N' Roses. Guns N' Roses was the sum of all it's parts. Even Adler's loose drumming was significant to the sound of those songs. Duff's basslines were melodic and stood out in a time where most bassists would simply follow the rhythm guitar. Slash's wild bluesy solos were full of passion and complimented Axl's piercing vocals perfectly over Stradlin's hooks. You are now left with 1/5th of that sound. It's different when you compare it to say Megadeth, where Dave Mustaine always did the vocals, lyrics and rhythm guitar, and about 40% of the solos.

I'll give you the Bush and Smashing Pumpkins examples, but you are wrong about Evanescence and Alice In Chains. Layne Staley co-wrote many songs with Jerry Cantrell and wrote on his own "Hate to Feel" and "Angry Chair", the latter was a single.

You are dead wrong about Evanescence. Amy Lee only wrote one song on her own on the debut album and three on her own on the second album. Actually, the Evanescence example is a very good one of a singer that doesn't get nearly the shit Axl does for continuing on with multiple new iterations of her band.

Ali

Layne only wrote the lyrics to Alice in Chains and maybe some of the instrumentation at best. Cantrell actually handled at least 80% of the instrumentation and a good deal(possibly 40-50%) of the lyrics and vocals(writing the lyrics and contributing lead vocals as well) to Alice in Chains.

Evanescence's debut album Fallen has Amy Lee's name on ALL the songs as a writer. More so than any other member of the band at the time. She also contributed piano and organ(which were/are a integral part of the Evanescence sound), Axl only really contributed vocals and lyrics to Appetite(unless you want to count a whistle and the minimal synthesizer to Paradise City). Things changed on UYI, but it was no longer the original line up so it is a moot point.

Again, I have nothing against Axl using the name, nor am I pissing on him and harping about a reunion, I would much prefer Chidem II. But Guns are a unique example. They were the sum of their parts. Every member had their own niche and role which they excelled at and was crucial to the sound.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Young_Gun

[tange]

yeah. Chains isn't a good example of guns. they compare much more with ACDC

[Young_Gun]

yeah. Chains isn't a good example of guns. they compare much more with ACDC

Very much agreed.

[Changes]

Well, I am not sure what happened in all of those bands, but another big difference with the case of Guns is that line up changes usually happens over time. In the case of GN'R we had one line up which had changed gradually (UYI line-up), letting people get to know the new members one by one, while surrounded by familiar faces. Then Axl shows up 8 years later after total silence with a whole bunch of new guys. That the key member did not even show his face didn't help. Like that wasn't enough, those anonymous guys kept changing and with 8 people in the band nobody but the hardcores ever really gets a feeling of getting to know the players. That's the difference.

[James Bond]

Well, I am not sure what happened in all of those bands, but another big difference with the case of Guns is that line up changes usually happens over time. In the case of GN'R we had one line up which had changed gradually (UYI line-up), letting people get to know the new members one by one, while surrounded by familiar faces. Then Axl shows up 8 years later after total silence with a whole bunch of new guys. That the key member did not even show his face didn't help. Like that wasn't enough, those anonymous guys kept changing and with 8 people in the band nobody but the hardcores ever really gets a feeling of getting to know the players. That's the difference.

I couldn't agree more. That's why I really hope the remaining Chinese Democracy sessions material is put aside to let the current line-up do their own thing. This band has too much talent to waste, and I have no doubt a hard rock driven album with Ashba, Ron, and Fortus would kick some serious ass. It'd accomplish a lot - the Chinese Democracy moniker could finally be retired, we'd have new music, and the public would get a sense of what this line-up has to offer and who is in the band. Save the rest of the CD material for a box set or special edition or something along those lines.

[Dazey]

Well, I am not sure what happened in all of those bands, but another big difference with the case of Guns is that line up changes usually happens over time. In the case of GN'R we had one line up which had changed gradually (UYI line-up), letting people get to know the new members one by one, while surrounded by familiar faces. Then Axl shows up 8 years later after total silence with a whole bunch of new guys. That the key member did not even show his face didn't help. Like that wasn't enough, those anonymous guys kept changing and with 8 people in the band nobody but the hardcores ever really gets a feeling of getting to know the players. That's the difference.

5 stars! I've been saying exactly this for years! I firmly believe that had the band been touring and relasing music in the years 93 to 2001 as each member left and was replaced one by one there wouldn't have been such a negative response as the fans wouldn't have had such a shock when the new band emerged all at once with none of the old guys.

[Dazey]

Well, I am not sure what happened in all of those bands, but another big difference with the case of Guns is that line up changes usually happens over time. In the case of GN'R we had one line up which had changed gradually (UYI line-up), letting people get to know the new members one by one, while surrounded by familiar faces. Then Axl shows up 8 years later after total silence with a whole bunch of new guys. That the key member did not even show his face didn't help. Like that wasn't enough, those anonymous guys kept changing and with 8 people in the band nobody but the hardcores ever really gets a feeling of getting to know the players. That's the difference.

5 stars! I've been saying exactly this for years! I firmly believe that had the band been touring and relasing music in the years 93 to 2001 as each member left and was replaced one by one there wouldn't have been such a negative response as the fans wouldn't have had such a shock when the new band emerged all at once with none of the old guys.

I agree 100% if Axl had released 3-4 albums of new material by now there would be less backlash to NuGuns and he would not have lost so much of his fan base...other bands have had personel changes and fans evetually accepted them . AC/DC is a perfect example and they replaced probably the most difficult person in a band to replace.

There have also been bands which completely changed musical direction and been successful...look at Fleetwood Mac they started out as a blues band with Peter Green and eneded up being huge after Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Bucking ham joined and they started pumping out pop hits.

I also think Axl's isolation from the press and his fans adds to the negative reaction...If Axl had been more press friendly and talked about the band and his musical plans it NuGuns would ahve been better received

The single biggest problem though is a total lack of new material. A band can never stand on its own two feet playing covers of other people's songs. All the bands you mention above CR made their own mark with their own songs after joining the band. Back in Black and Rumours are two perfect examples of how a band can move on and remain successful. Rumours also happens to be one of my all time favourite records though so I am a little biased!

Edited October 21, 2011 by Dazey Does Dallas

[Ali]

Akl Rose is the only singer in the history of RNR, which is a completely new band contained much of the glory of old band.James Hatfield and Jon Bon Jovi without the original members of their bands would not be able to fill arenas, but would be played in clubs in USA.Sa On the other hand to sell 10,000 tickets is definitely a success.

and don't forget GNR filled stadiums and arenas across the globe in last two years.

What about Dave Mustaine?

Him also...also he dosn't get much hell about lineup changes like Axl does.

I think a lot of it has to do with the sound of the music. Megadeth has always had that core sound that sounds like Megadeth regardless of the lineup. Regardless of anyone's views on past band members in GNR, they did help contribute a specific sound to the band. I always maintained that if the new GNR material sounded more like old Guns the public wouldn't care as much (but then again I don't care about public opinion anyway lol). The new lineup is fantastic but it definately has a different overall musical sound that barely resembles old-Guns whereas Megadeth has always sounded like Megadeth

yes, Mustaine is Megadeth. it really does not matter who plays with him, as long as they can play. Though Friedman is still highly missed. If CD was more like old GNR it would have been different, new members yes but sounding like good old GNR, but it was new sound and new members, too much for some people. Megadeth did Risk, as much as I like the album, it`s not really Megadeth....same thing kinda happened with CD.

I don't fully buy the "CD isn't enough like old GN'R" because it sounds pretty much like Use Your Illusion 3 at times. There Was a Time could have been right on there. Even Catcher, Madagascar, Street of Dreams, This I Love... maybe even IRS. Sure there are some tracks with different styles but I don't think it's that radically different.

Also - Mustaine took some heat after Youthenasia, the albums after that started really losing it, lost their edge, they needed to get the thrash back. Megadeth is a great example though. So are:

The Smashing Pumpkins

Alice in Chains

Hole

Bush

Iron Maiden

Wolfmother

Evanescence

And probably a ton of other bands who have lost most of their members. GN'R was just the biggest.

All those bands still have the primary songwriters(Corgan, Rossdale, Amy Lee, Cantrell). Here is another piece I wrote which details the major difference between those bands and Guns:

Alot of those bands mentioned with different line up changes still retain the main songwriter/s. Dave Mustaine pretty much wrote 95% of Megadeth material, from the start. Billy Corgan also wrote 95% of the Smashing Pumpkins material from day one. Jerry Cantrell wrote the bulk of Alice in Chains songs(most of the instrumental, and probably 50% of the lyrics). Same with Lemmy of Motorhead, Dave Grohl of the Foo Fighters etc etc. Axl was never the main songwriter, that honor mostly goes to Izzy. The fact that Axl also did not play an instrument in addition to vocals hurts as well, as all the aforementioned individuals played guitar/bass and wrote lyrics, therefore are a pivotal part of the sound of the band. The key member or members still function in those bands. The same cannot be said about current day Guns N' Roses.

All those aforementioned artists wrote most of the lyrics and instrumentation for their songs, so the main essence of the band remained intact. This was not the case in Guns N' Roses. Guns N' Roses was the sum of all it's parts. Even Adler's loose drumming was significant to the sound of those songs. Duff's basslines were melodic and stood out in a time where most bassists would simply follow the rhythm guitar. Slash's wild bluesy solos were full of passion and complimented Axl's piercing vocals perfectly over Stradlin's hooks. You are now left with 1/5th of that sound. It's different when you compare it to say Megadeth, where Dave Mustaine always did the vocals, lyrics and rhythm guitar, and about 40% of the solos.

I'll give you the Bush and Smashing Pumpkins examples, but you are wrong about Evanescence and Alice In Chains. Layne Staley co-wrote many songs with Jerry Cantrell and wrote on his own "Hate to Feel" and "Angry Chair", the latter was a single.

You are dead wrong about Evanescence. Amy Lee only wrote one song on her own on the debut album and three on her own on the second album. Actually, the Evanescence example is a very good one of a singer that doesn't get nearly the shit Axl does for continuing on with multiple new iterations of her band.

Ali

Layne only wrote the lyrics to Alice in Chains and maybe some of the instrumentation at best. Cantrell actually handled at least 80% of the instrumentation and a good deal(possibly 40-50%) of the lyrics and vocals(writing the lyrics and contributing lead vocals as well) to Alice in Chains.

Evanescence's debut album Fallen has Amy Lee's name on ALL the songs as a writer. More so than any other member of the band at the time. She also contributed piano and organ(which were/are a integral part of the Evanescence sound), Axl only really contributed vocals and lyrics to Appetite(unless you want to count a whistle and the minimal synthesizer to Paradise City). Things changed on UYI, but it was no longer the original line up so it is a moot point.

Again, I have nothing against Axl using the name, nor am I pissing on him and harping about a reunion, I would much prefer Chidem II. But Guns are a unique example. They were the sum of their parts. Every member had their own niche and role which they excelled at and was crucial to the sound.

You CANNOT lump in situations with Megadeth and Smashing Pumpkins and Bush, where one member completely dominated the songwriting process, with Evanescence and Alice In Chains. Layne Staley did not write only lyrics, he wrote vocal melodies as well and was the sole credited writer on two Dirt songs. The Evanescence example is even worse because Ben Moody and Terry Balsamo co-wrote the vast majority of songs on the first two albums.

Ali