The U.S. tour is selling miserably....

[Dazey]

I think some people are waiting for the day of their show to make sure Axl is going to show, so they don't want to get stuck with tickets.

It doesn't work that way!

You know you're getting Axl Rose when he walks on stage!

Even then...you aren't guaranteed a full show until he leaves the stage...at the end.

Plus if you listen to the apologists on here you should expect a late night if you want to see Guns and take the next day off work or risk disappointment. Hardly lends itself to an impulse purchase. Also how many fans actually live walking distance or close enough to the venues to just wander down on the day? Like it or not a Guns gig is a commitment and you're not gonna sell many tickets on the day of the show itself really.

[ohmygod]

Hey negative nancys, the shows will sell just fine, don't worry your pretty little hearts.

Do you really think thew would keep booking gigs if the first ten or so shows scheduled were selling poorly in the first 5 days or so?

[Dazey]

Hey negative nancys, the shows will sell just fine, don't worry your pretty little hearts.

Do you really think thew would keep booking gigs if the first ten or so shows scheduled were selling poorly in the first 5 days or so?

Hahaha, I've just noticed your sig! By "Rock and Roll" do you think he means embarrassing yourself in front of thousands of fans and the world's media by acting like a petulant child after being warned time and again what the consequences for your actions would be if you chose to ignore the warnings?

[Ali]

If you'll note, I specifically said I don't think going on national TV is a shitty idea.

I just think MTV is the wrong example to use of a television avenue that could help GN'R now given that they focus almost entirely on reality and/or scripted programming now, not music videos. I think talk shows are one of the few viable means for widespread, mass exposure for musical acts

If you'll note,I did not suggest that MTV is a show they should go on now.

O.k. Then I have no idea why you would bring it up now if the issue is one of promoting the current band and its tour with a national TV appearance. I do agree with the talk show example. That's still a good method for widespread exposure.

Ali

[ohmygod]

Hey negative nancys, the shows will sell just fine, don't worry your pretty little hearts.

Do you really think thew would keep booking gigs if the first ten or so shows scheduled were selling poorly in the first 5 days or so?

Hahaha, I've just noticed your sig! By "Rock and Roll" do you think he means embarrassing yourself in front of thousands of fans and the world's media by acting like a petulant child after being warned time and again what the consequences for your actions would be if you chose to ignore the warnings?

LOLWAT? (I'm glad you waste your time on a message board of a band that you obviously don't dig)

BTW, nice way of avoiding the topic.

[Dazey]

Hey negative nancys, the shows will sell just fine, don't worry your pretty little hearts.

Do you really think thew would keep booking gigs if the first ten or so shows scheduled were selling poorly in the first 5 days or so?

Hahaha, I've just noticed your sig! By "Rock and Roll" do you think he means embarrassing yourself in front of thousands of fans and the world's media by acting like a petulant child after being warned time and again what the consequences for your actions would be if you chose to ignore the warnings?

LOLWAT? (I'm glad you waste your time on a message board of a band that you obviously don't dig)

BTW, nice way of avoiding the topic.

I dig the music which is kinda how it's supposed to work. All the tantrums and fucking over the fans I don't really like too much but hey if you think that's all cool then I guess that's upto you? Also it does kinda link into the topic cos that Reading show could've been great promotion for the band and any forthcoming tours due to the fact that the crowd wasn't purely GnR fans. If Axl had done something weird like maybe showing up on time, playing a great show and not getting the plug pulled he could've gained a lot of new fans and been reported well in the media. As it happened he pulled the usual shit and for once the promoter followed through on their threats making him look rather silly.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Dazey Does Dallas

[Ali]

The Stones? That's your point of reference? If there was an exception-not-the-rule example of enduring success and appeal commercially, it would be the Stones.

Ali

U2, Bon Jovi, AC/DC, Metallica, The Eagles, Paul McCartney, Tom Petty? I can go on but I only mention those specifically because they were in the top 25 grossing tours of last year. All older than Guns and Guns were as big as or bigger than all of them in the past and there's no reason they couldn't still be had they made the effort to stay in the public eye while touring, promoting and releasing new music.

I think those are all exceptional cases. For every Metallica or AC/DC, there is an Alice In Chains or Smashing Pumpkins or Queensryche that although they still may be playing great shows, releasing good music, they are not as commercially successful as they once were. I think most careers have an ebb and flow.

Ali

[Gagarin]

I think Jimmy Fallon would love to have Axl on the show.

He could even do it pre-taped for the Axl Rose relaxation apps (if Axl finds those funny).

But there's no magic bullet out there.

If I recall, the Axl chats and Del "interview", he talked about why there's not as good relationships with different media personalities and outlets (talk shows?) and they're trying to figure out how to improve them.

Being "out" for almost 20 years makes it hard to get back in, without an angle, I imagine.

^

Edit: Basically, I'm just saying that I think Axl said they can't just call up a SNL, a talk show, or whatever, and say "hey, put me on!"

Without leverage of label, it'll be pretty hard.

I suppose Axl could go on every radio station in each market and do interviews...but....eh. I don't think WWE even does that anymore.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Gagarin

[Young_Gun]

If you don't have ticket to the show, quit bitching. If you do, quit bitching and enjoy the show, or don't go.

We aren't in Nazi-Germany here buddy. We are free to voice our OPINION as this is the Guns N' Roses DISCUSSION and news section.

I'm still hoping for some sort of promotional push though.

[Dazey]

The Stones? That's your point of reference? If there was an exception-not-the-rule example of enduring success and appeal commercially, it would be the Stones.

Ali

U2, Bon Jovi, AC/DC, Metallica, The Eagles, Paul McCartney, Tom Petty? I can go on but I only mention those specifically because they were in the top 25 grossing tours of last year. All older than Guns and Guns were as big as or bigger than all of them in the past and there's no reason they couldn't still be had they made the effort to stay in the public eye while touring, promoting and releasing new music.

I think those are all exceptional cases. For every Metallica or AC/DC, there is an Alice In Chains or Smashing Pumpkins or Queensryche that although they still may be playing great shows, releasing good music, they are not as commercially successful as they once were. I think most careers have an ebb and flow.

Ali

But none of the other bands you mention were ever as big as GnR were in their heyday. If CD had been released in the late 90's and we'd had another 3 or 4 albums with publicity and accompanying tours since then I see no reason why GnR couldn't still be playing to the huge crowds. The mistake they made was not refreshing the fanbase by staying relevant. Nowadays the younger generation either know nothing about the band or simply don't care whereas the fans from back in the day have in many cases grown up and now have families and responsibilities which makes it hard for them to attend a concert that will likely not finish until the early hours of the morning. That's why publicity is so important for a band, they need to stay in the public consciousness and give something to the fans to stop them forgetting about them.

It's also why things like the tantrums and late starts DO matter cos if I had to find a sitter, then spend money on transport, tickets, beer etc etc I'm only going to do that if I know the show's gonna go ahead as planned. It's not so much of an issue when your fanbase is in its teens and early 20's but those teenagers are now in their 30 and 40's even and can't just put things on hold in case Axl decides not to take the stage until after midnight on a weekday. Promotion and a public presence over the years would have meant more young fans and hence more tolerant attitudes to Axl's shit but that didn't happen and now it's coming back to bite him in the ass.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Dazey Does Dallas

[Changes]

Before I go to bed I just want to say that Dazey is doing an excellent job in this thread.

[Ali]

The Stones? That's your point of reference? If there was an exception-not-the-rule example of enduring success and appeal commercially, it would be the Stones.

Ali

U2, Bon Jovi, AC/DC, Metallica, The Eagles, Paul McCartney, Tom Petty? I can go on but I only mention those specifically because they were in the top 25 grossing tours of last year. All older than Guns and Guns were as big as or bigger than all of them in the past and there's no reason they couldn't still be had they made the effort to stay in the public eye while touring, promoting and releasing new music.

I think those are all exceptional cases. For every Metallica or AC/DC, there is an Alice In Chains or Smashing Pumpkins or Queensryche that although they still may be playing great shows, releasing good music, they are not as commercially successful as they once were. I think most careers have an ebb and flow.

Ali

But none of the other bands you mention were ever as big as GnR were in their heyday. If CD had been released in the late 90's and we'd had another 3 or 4 albums with publicity and accompanying tours since then I see no reason why GnR couldn't still be playing to the huge crowds. The mistake they made was not refreshing the fanbase by staying relevant. Nowadays the younger generation either know nothing about the band or simply don't care whereas the fans from back in the day have in many cases grown up and now have families and responsibilities which makes it hard for them to attend a concert that will likely not finish until the early hours of the morning. That's why publicity is so important for a band, they need to stay in the public consciousness and give something to the fans to stop them forgetting about them.

They were multi-platinum bands that have seen their popularity decline over the years while still arguably putting on great shows and putting out good music. I understand what you're saying, but I think it is an assumption to think that GN'R would have been able to maintain a high of popularity through the years. I personally have my doubts as some still to this day mistakenly lump in GN'R with "hair bands".

Ali

[ohmygod]

Hey negative nancys, the shows will sell just fine, don't worry your pretty little hearts.

Do you really think thew would keep booking gigs if the first ten or so shows scheduled were selling poorly in the first 5 days or so?

Hahaha, I've just noticed your sig! By "Rock and Roll" do you think he means embarrassing yourself in front of thousands of fans and the world's media by acting like a petulant child after being warned time and again what the consequences for your actions would be if you chose to ignore the warnings?

LOLWAT? (I'm glad you waste your time on a message board of a band that you obviously don't dig)

BTW, nice way of avoiding the topic.

I dig the music which is kinda how it's supposed to work. All the tantrums and fucking over the fans I don't really like too much but hey if you think that's all cool then I guess that's upto you? Also it does kinda link into the topic cos that Reading show could've been great promotion for the band and any forthcoming tours due to the fact that the crowd wasn't purely GnR fans. If Axl had done something weird like maybe showing up on time, playing a great show and not getting the plug pulled he could've gained a lot of new fans and been reported well in the media. As it happened he pulled the usual shit and for once the promoter followed through on their threats making him look rather silly.

Dude you're still talking about a show that happened in England over a year ago and relating it to a US tour????? Maybe that has relevance if they were doing a tour in England.

Seriously, what it comes down to is the money and business. If the people putting this tour together thought it wouldn't sell well, the shows added would not have been added, or would have been added in smaller venues. Neither happened. If the people who are the ones financially interested in this are still going through with it, i wouldn't worry.

[Zint]

If you'll note, I specifically said I don't think going on national TV is a shitty idea.

I just think MTV is the wrong example to use of a television avenue that could help GN'R now given that they focus almost entirely on reality and/or scripted programming now, not music videos. I think talk shows are one of the few viable means for widespread, mass exposure for musical acts

If you'll note,I did not suggest that MTV is a show they should go on now.

O.k. Then I have no idea why you would bring it up now if the issue is one of promoting the current band and its tour with a national TV appearance. I do agree with the talk show example. That's still a good method for widespread exposure.

O.k. Well the "issue" swayed to posts about Axl refusing to "whore" himself out to t.v. and whatnot.

I suggest you go back and read some of the "lol GnR on t.v. wut?..lol" type-posts.

It was a reminder that television...essentially MTV,pretty much broke this band wide open.

Get it yet?...TELEVISION broke this band wide open.

A tv show that was relevant 20 years ago worked for the band then.As a result of that initial success with television,I was asking why some people weren't responsive to the idea of television working in their favour now.

[Ghost_Guns]

If you'll note, I specifically said I don't think going on national TV is a shitty idea.

I just think MTV is the wrong example to use of a television avenue that could help GN'R now given that they focus almost entirely on reality and/or scripted programming now, not music videos. I think talk shows are one of the few viable means for widespread, mass exposure for musical acts

If you'll note,I did not suggest that MTV is a show they should go on now.

O.k. Then I have no idea why you would bring it up now if the issue is one of promoting the current band and its tour with a national TV appearance. I do agree with the talk show example. That's still a good method for widespread exposure.

O.k. Well the "issue" swayed to posts about Axl refusing to "whore" himself out to t.v. and whatnot.

I suggest you go back and read some of the "lol GnR on t.v. wut?..lol" type-posts.

It was a reminder that television...essentially MTV,pretty much broke this band wide open.

Get it yet?...TELEVISION broke this band wide open.

A tv show that was relevant 20 years ago worked for the band then.As a result of that initial success with television,I was asking why some people weren't responsive to the idea of television working in their favour now.

Yeah you guys were going round and round and round, are people even talking about those initial posts anymore

[Zint]

If you'll note, I specifically said I don't think going on national TV is a shitty idea.

I just think MTV is the wrong example to use of a television avenue that could help GN'R now given that they focus almost entirely on reality and/or scripted programming now, not music videos. I think talk shows are one of the few viable means for widespread, mass exposure for musical acts

If you'll note,I did not suggest that MTV is a show they should go on now.

O.k. Then I have no idea why you would bring it up now if the issue is one of promoting the current band and its tour with a national TV appearance. I do agree with the talk show example. That's still a good method for widespread exposure.

O.k. Well the "issue" swayed to posts about Axl refusing to "whore" himself out to t.v. and whatnot.

I suggest you go back and read some of the "lol GnR on t.v. wut?..lol" type-posts.

It was a reminder that television...essentially MTV,pretty much broke this band wide open.

Get it yet?...TELEVISION broke this band wide open.

A tv show that was relevant 20 years ago worked for the band then.As a result of that initial success with television,I was asking why some people weren't responsive to the idea of television working in their favour now.

Yeah you guys were going round and round and round, are people even talking about those initial posts anymore

The one's that started 4 whole pages back?

Well yeah...apparantly so.

[Ghost_Guns]

oh shit

[Ali]

If you'll note, I specifically said I don't think going on national TV is a shitty idea.

I just think MTV is the wrong example to use of a television avenue that could help GN'R now given that they focus almost entirely on reality and/or scripted programming now, not music videos. I think talk shows are one of the few viable means for widespread, mass exposure for musical acts

If you'll note,I did not suggest that MTV is a show they should go on now.

O.k. Then I have no idea why you would bring it up now if the issue is one of promoting the current band and its tour with a national TV appearance. I do agree with the talk show example. That's still a good method for widespread exposure.

O.k. Well the "issue" swayed to posts about Axl refusing to "whore" himself out to t.v. and whatnot.

I suggest you go back and read some of the "lol GnR on t.v. wut?..lol" type-posts.

It was a reminder that television...essentially MTV,pretty much broke this band wide open.

Get it yet?...TELEVISION broke this band wide open.

A tv show that was relevant 20 years ago worked for the band then.As a result of that initial success with television,I was asking why some people weren't responsive to the idea of television working in their favour now.

Oh yes, I "get it" That's why I said I agree with the talk show example as being relevant. In case you missed that.

Television is no longer capable of breaking a band open in this day and age, though. I think those days are long since over. However I don't doubt that television exposure can help, but not to the degree it once did. Perhaps that's why some people aren't as responsive to the idea of it working in their favor these days. Maybe it isn't that it can't work in their favor at all, but just not nearly as much as it once did.

Ali

[Dazey]

Dude you're still talking about a show that happened in England over a year ago and relating it to a US tour????? Maybe that has relevance if they were doing a tour in England.

Seriously, what it comes down to is the money and business. If the people putting this tour together thought it wouldn't sell well, the shows added would not have been added, or would have been added in smaller venues. Neither happened. If the people who are the ones financially interested in this are still going through with it, i wouldn't worry.

It was an attempt to address the fundamental reasons behind the current situation and why we find ourselves where we currently do. The point is that Axl doesn't want to do publicity on his own terms so guess what the only things people hear about NuGnR in the media are? The Reading thing is very relevant because it's far from an isolated incident and that's the perception of the band that many no die hards have these days. Imagine if when tickets went on sale for the next European tour and the last memory of Axl for somebody was a kick ass performance on a national talk show along with a 15-20 minute interview rather than Sergeant Pepper sulking in the rain with a megaphone at a festival?

Axl's one funny and charming motherfucker when you listen to him talk and I'm willing to bet that he would win a lot of people over with a simple high profile TV appearance. I could sight the Dublin farce from the tour last year or even the godawful clusterfuck at Rock in Rio last week if I wanted to. In fact Rio might even be a better example cos though he was clearly unprepared there was a lot that for once wasn't his fault but all people read in the news is that once again Axl shows up late, sounds like shit and finishes the show early. If he would just get back in the public eye and give his side of the story followed by a good live performance it would bring a lot of people back on side.

He needs to do something like this to redress the balance and counter the negative media attention and I'm certain that would make a big difference in the success or failure of this and other tours. The internet's great for many things and getting information out there but in terms of actually being seen and heard it's still got nothing on TV when it comes to things like interviews.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Dazey Does Dallas

[Ali]

If you don't have ticket to the show, quit bitching. If you do, quit bitching and enjoy the show, or don't go.

We aren't in Nazi-Germany here buddy. We are free to voice our OPINION as this is the Guns N' Roses DISCUSSION and news section.

I'm still hoping for some sort of promotional push though.

Some people may be of the opinion that the way certain opinions are voiced comes off as bitching more than simply voicing an opinion.

Ali

[Dazey]

They were multi-platinum bands that have seen their popularity decline over the years while still arguably putting on great shows and putting out good music. I understand what you're saying, but I think it is an assumption to think that GN'R would have been able to maintain a high of popularity through the years. I personally have my doubts as some still to this day mistakenly lump in GN'R with "hair bands".

Ali

All the more reason surely to go on one of the talk shows and play a couple of tunes. What if somebody sees that and realises that they've nothing in common with that scene and decides to buy a ticket as a result? See that's how all this works. The thing with TV as opposed to the internet is that it's less specifically targeted. You go online and I'm willing to bet that most people don't browse more than half a dozen or so specific sites on a regular basis obviously tailored to their specific interests. I don't find out a lot that I wasn't looking for on the internet which I think is a valid point to make. You get a much wider selection of people watching Letterman than you'd get on this forum for example. They can issue press releases on the GnR Twitter, Facebook etc etc but chances are that the people subscribed to these feeds would be going to the gigs anyway.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Dazey Does Dallas

[Zint]

Oh yes, I "get it" That's why I said I agree with the talk show example as being relevant. In case you missed that.

Hard to miss,you've mentioned it a few times now.

Television is no longer capable of breaking a band open in this day and age, though. I think those days are long since over.

I didn't suggest otherwise.

However I don't doubt that television exposure can help, but not to the degree it once did.

But it could potentially boost a U.S. tour?...topic...right?

Perhaps that's why some people aren't as responsive to the idea of it working in their favor these days.

Perhaps that's why some people are trying to point out that it could boost a U.S. tour...topic...right?

Now...may I,in turn, remind you of my initial question?...as typed...in my initial post?

What's with the reluctance to see GnR on national tv now?

How you deduced I wanted them to reappear on MTV in 2011 so it will break nuGnR into a superfantabulous worldwide sensation is beyond me!

[wasted]

I haven't seen metallica guys or acdc on Leno.

[Dazey]

I haven't seen metallica guys or acdc on Leno.

Those guys are still selling out shows all over the world and they've been consistently touring for the last 20 years and more. Bit of a difference.

[Young_Gun]

If you don't have ticket to the show, quit bitching. If you do, quit bitching and enjoy the show, or don't go.

We aren't in Nazi-Germany here buddy. We are free to voice our OPINION as this is the Guns N' Roses DISCUSSION and news section.

I'm still hoping for some sort of promotional push though.

Some people may be of the opinion that the way certain opinions are voiced comes off as bitching more than simply voicing an opinion.

Ali

That's a fair point. Most here just want to see their favorite band have the success they deserve.