comparing GNR to a solo project

[BS11290]

Overall I just can't see how people consider this a real band, in the traditional sense.

So what do you want us to do? Refer to it as the "Axl Rose Band"? Like it or not, Axl owns the name and he's the sole founding member left in the band. He runs the show. He calls the shots. It's like that for a lotta bands.

Also, I think you are heavily discounting Buckethead's impact. I'm not sure how you can call Chinese Democracy an "Axl Rose record" when Buckethead's stamp is all over that album.

Furthermore, you've also created this false notion of a "real band." I'm fairly confident you made a freudian slip there, as I saw in another thread you refered to an old lineup of GnR as the "real Gnr." That right there proves your bias of perception. Because I'm going to tell you right now- I don't think you know what a "real band, in the traditional sense" really is if GnR isn't a "real band, in the traditional sense." But really- what are you actually trying to tell us? Well, you're trying to tell us that Axl has too much control of the band now, and therefore it ceased being Guns n Roses and for all practical purposes became his solo project. Is that about it? Careful, you may not like what you find when you seek out the answer to who willingly ceded the name of the band to Axl way back when.

Oh also, I'd brush up on recent quotes from band members. DJ said he's written 10 or 12 songs specifically for GnR. That certainly doesn't sound like an "Axl Rose solo project" to me. Just a thought.

In the end, this whole discussion is just semantics and frivolous hair splitting. Oh and Axl actually answered a question about Gnr vs solo project in the chats. Just fyi.

I acknowledge the fact that legally, and therefore officially this is GNR. No argument there. But in essence on the other hand...well...keep reading.

Buckethead did a great job on CD, no denying that but it was all under Axl's direction, and aimed under Axl's vision. It was up to Axl which parts got used, edited, replaced, thrown out, rearranged, etc. LOTS of solo artists use outside musicians to accomplish these feats. Axl's vision was the whole point of Chinese. The nu guys openly admit this.

As for other bands, we can go back and forth on that literally until the end of time. A lot of the common examples such as Megadeth and Smashing Pumpkins are obviously comparing apples to oranges, some bands are simply better at lineup changes than others, for example, Van Hagar, and then even the one's that are similar to Axl's situation goes back to "two wrongs don't make a right". It goes on and on and on. But from what we know and read, this "band" is operating more like a solo artist does as I described in my first post in this thread. Yadda, Yadda.

As to the "real GNR" comment, that's cool if this is what you consider "real GNR". No problem there. Each to their own. But if you ever happen to venture out to a local pub, and see the opportunity, maybe ask somebody, exactly, "Who is the guitarist of GNR?" "What do you consider to be the best GNR song?". Little heads up, I'd advise you not to expect too many "DJ Ashba" and "Shackler' Revenge" as responses. See you might see this as the real deal, and again, I emphasize, totally cool. But I personally don't. And more food for thought, most people don't. That statement is fact, not opinion.

And last but not least, DJ wrote 10 or 12 songs specifically for GNR. Uhh...so? No telling if they'll be rearranged hardcore by Axl...or even used at all. From what we know and were told, they haven't been in the studio since they wrapped up recording Chinese Democracy, well before DJ joined the band, so it's much, much too early to speculate on the future and how it's to be handled.

Edited March 5, 2012 by BS11290

[Voodoochild]

As to the "real GNR" comment, that's cool if this is what you consider "real GNR". No problem there. Each to their own. But if you ever happen to venture out to a local pub, and see the opportunity, maybe ask somebody, exactly, "Who is the guitarist of GNR?" "What do you consider to be the best GNR song?". Little heads up, I'd advise you not to expect too many "DJ Ashba" and "Shackler' Revenge" as responses. See you might see this as the real deal, and again, I emphasize, totally cool. But I personally don't. And more food for thought, most people don't. That statement is fact, not opinion.

It is opinion because its based on popularity, thus leading to an unavoidable prejudice against anything that isn't what most people know.

I mean, its not really just about what people like, but what they know and what they know most people like.

I don't get why this is even usually brought up on discussions about GNR name. Does it really matter what most people think?

[BS11290]

As to the "real GNR" comment, that's cool if this is what you consider "real GNR". No problem there. Each to their own. But if you ever happen to venture out to a local pub, and see the opportunity, maybe ask somebody, exactly, "Who is the guitarist of GNR?" "What do you consider to be the best GNR song?". Little heads up, I'd advise you not to expect too many "DJ Ashba" and "Shackler' Revenge" as responses. See you might see this as the real deal, and again, I emphasize, totally cool. But I personally don't. And more food for thought, most people don't. That statement is fact, not opinion.

It is opinion because its based on popularity, thus leading to an unavoidable prejudice against anything that isn't what most people know.

I mean, its not really just about what people like, but what they know and what they know most people like.

I don't get why this is even usually brought up on discussions about GNR name. Does it really matter what most people think?

The point, in a nutshell, I was trying to make is that most people don't view this as GNR. And that is fact. If an overwhelming majority of people think that way, don't you think it might be for a good reason? I understand the legalities behind it and such. But purely in essence, it's a whole different matter.

Again, I went into more detail on this subject in my first post in this thread.

Edited March 5, 2012 by BS11290

[The Wicked Hand]

It's just like if zac de la rocha was doing a zac de la rocha record and he called in a band to help him add parts and record his songs. They are writing parts but they are his songs.

So the, well the others contributed, argument doesn't really work IMO .

[Voodoochild]

As to the "real GNR" comment, that's cool if this is what you consider "real GNR". No problem there. Each to their own. But if you ever happen to venture out to a local pub, and see the opportunity, maybe ask somebody, exactly, "Who is the guitarist of GNR?" "What do you consider to be the best GNR song?". Little heads up, I'd advise you not to expect too many "DJ Ashba" and "Shackler' Revenge" as responses. See you might see this as the real deal, and again, I emphasize, totally cool. But I personally don't. And more food for thought, most people don't. That statement is fact, not opinion.

It is opinion because its based on popularity, thus leading to an unavoidable prejudice against anything that isn't what most people know.

I mean, its not really just about what people like, but what they know and what they know most people like.

I don't get why this is even usually brought up on discussions about GNR name. Does it really matter what most people think?

The point, in a nutshell, I was trying to make is that most people don't view this as GNR. And that is fact. If an overwhelming majority of people think that way, don't you think it might be for a good reason? I understand the legalities behind it and such. But purely in essence, it's a whole different matter.

Again, I went into more detail on this subject in my first post in this thread.

Oh, I see. Well, still, I don't think its for a good reason. Most people dislike an album that I love called Chinese Democracy. And I really think it's not about the music itself.

It's just like if zac de la rocha was doing a zac de la rocha record and he called in a band to help him add parts and record his songs. They are writing parts but they are his songs.

So the, well the others contributed, argument doesn't really work IMO .

Not the same thing. Axl didn't bring all the songs and asked the other members to add their parts. They all started from the scratch the instrumental, with Axl adding lyrics after, from what band members and several articles told. Of course, Axl wrote some instrumentals and melodies, but pretty much all of them created music, not only played what Axl told them to play.

[DrBrownstone]

I wonder what would happen if Richard told Axl what to do. Can you imagine if one of the guys told Axl "Hey, I think you should change this, tweak that part....etc." lol. bye bye. I guess that would really shed light on what it really is.

[BS11290]

As to the "real GNR" comment, that's cool if this is what you consider "real GNR". No problem there. Each to their own. But if you ever happen to venture out to a local pub, and see the opportunity, maybe ask somebody, exactly, "Who is the guitarist of GNR?" "What do you consider to be the best GNR song?". Little heads up, I'd advise you not to expect too many "DJ Ashba" and "Shackler' Revenge" as responses. See you might see this as the real deal, and again, I emphasize, totally cool. But I personally don't. And more food for thought, most people don't. That statement is fact, not opinion.

It is opinion because its based on popularity, thus leading to an unavoidable prejudice against anything that isn't what most people know.

I mean, its not really just about what people like, but what they know and what they know most people like.

I don't get why this is even usually brought up on discussions about GNR name. Does it really matter what most people think?

The point, in a nutshell, I was trying to make is that most people don't view this as GNR. And that is fact. If an overwhelming majority of people think that way, don't you think it might be for a good reason? I understand the legalities behind it and such. But purely in essence, it's a whole different matter.

Again, I went into more detail on this subject in my first post in this thread.

Oh, I see. Well, still, I don't think its for a good reason. Most people dislike an album that I love called Chinese Democracy. And I really think it's not about the music itself.

It's just like if zac de la rocha was doing a zac de la rocha record and he called in a band to help him add parts and record his songs. They are writing parts but they are his songs.

So the, well the others contributed, argument doesn't really work IMO .

Not the same thing. Axl didn't bring all the songs and asked the other members to add their parts. They all started from the scratch the instrumental, with Axl adding lyrics after, from what band members and several articles told. Of course, Axl wrote some instrumentals and melodies, but pretty much all of them created music, not only played what Axl told them to play.

See, I do think that it was more about the music itself, but I guess that's another debate for another time.

[Original GNR]

Overall I just can't see how people consider this a real band, in the traditional sense.

So what do you want us to do? Refer to it as the "Axl Rose Band"? Like it or not, Axl owns the name and he's the sole founding member left in the band. He runs the show. He calls the shots. It's like that for a lotta bands.

Also, I think you are heavily discounting Buckethead's impact. I'm not sure how you can call Chinese Democracy an "Axl Rose record" when Buckethead's stamp is all over that album.

Furthermore, you've also created this false notion of a "real band." I'm fairly confident you made a freudian slip there, as I saw in another thread you refered to an old lineup of GnR as the "real Gnr." That right there proves your bias of perception. Because I'm going to tell you right now- I don't think you know what a "real band, in the traditional sense" really is if GnR isn't a "real band, in the traditional sense." But really- what are you actually trying to tell us? Well, you're trying to tell us that Axl has too much control of the band now, and therefore it ceased being Guns n Roses and for all practical purposes became his solo project. Is that about it? Careful, you may not like what you find when you seek out the answer to who willingly ceded the name of the band to Axl way back when.

Oh also, I'd brush up on recent quotes from band members. DJ said he's written 10 or 12 songs specifically for GnR. That certainly doesn't sound like an "Axl Rose solo project" to me. Just a thought.

In the end, this whole discussion is just semantics and frivolous hair splitting. Oh and Axl actually answered a question about Gnr vs solo project in the chats. Just fyi.

You miss the point. I'm not saying Axl writes every note of every song on Chinese Democracy and then hires people to play exactly what he has written. He has creative collaborators. He will bring in musicians not only to realise his vision, but to contribute creatively with their own ideas. And that is what several of the GnR line-up have done, post-1994. But that is no different to most solo artists, whether they be Prince, Michael Jackson, Bruce Springsteen, David Bowie or whoever else you care to mention. They will write their own songs, but also have contributions from other songwriters. They will bring in session players to realise their vision, but to also contribute to the creative evolution of the album they are making. But all of those solo artists will decide exactly what songs make the album, how they are edited, how they are mixed, what contributions from others to include on the album and what to chuck out. Every final decision is made by the solo artist.

You cannot tell me for one minute that Buckethead or Finck or DJ Ashba or Richard Fortus or Dizzy Reed have told W. Axl Rose what songs should make the album, or what should stay off, or how many guitar solos to include etc. They will contribute their ideas, they will play on the album, but if Axl wants to ditch ANY part of their contributions, he will do so without needing to consult any of them. It is his decision. he is the boss. That is not how it worked with the AFD & UYI line-ups of GnR and that is not how most "bands" operate. That is how solo artists operate. Many solo artists have the same touring band for years on end, and those touring band members often play on the albums too. That doesn't make them equal members of a "band", because the solo artist has final say on everything. Just like Axl.

Chinese Democracy is a solo album in all but name, and the new GnR is a solo project in all but name. But I am still interested, because Axl Rose is a creative genius, and I will always be interested in any new music he comes out with.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Original GNR

[Apollo]

I could not care less what the name of a band is. The finished product is what counts.

The name of the band, who the boss is, who wrote the song....who cares!!!! The song is all that matters.

[BS11290]

Overall I just can't see how people consider this a real band, in the traditional sense.

So what do you want us to do? Refer to it as the "Axl Rose Band"? Like it or not, Axl owns the name and he's the sole founding member left in the band. He runs the show. He calls the shots. It's like that for a lotta bands.

Also, I think you are heavily discounting Buckethead's impact. I'm not sure how you can call Chinese Democracy an "Axl Rose record" when Buckethead's stamp is all over that album.

Furthermore, you've also created this false notion of a "real band." I'm fairly confident you made a freudian slip there, as I saw in another thread you refered to an old lineup of GnR as the "real Gnr." That right there proves your bias of perception. Because I'm going to tell you right now- I don't think you know what a "real band, in the traditional sense" really is if GnR isn't a "real band, in the traditional sense." But really- what are you actually trying to tell us? Well, you're trying to tell us that Axl has too much control of the band now, and therefore it ceased being Guns n Roses and for all practical purposes became his solo project. Is that about it? Careful, you may not like what you find when you seek out the answer to who willingly ceded the name of the band to Axl way back when.

Oh also, I'd brush up on recent quotes from band members. DJ said he's written 10 or 12 songs specifically for GnR. That certainly doesn't sound like an "Axl Rose solo project" to me. Just a thought.

In the end, this whole discussion is just semantics and frivolous hair splitting. Oh and Axl actually answered a question about Gnr vs solo project in the chats. Just fyi.

You miss the point. I'm not saying Axl writes every note of every song on Chinese Democracy and then hires people to play exactly what he has written. He has creative collaborators. He will bring in musicians not only to realise his vision, but to contribute creatively with their own ideas. And that is what several of the GnR line-up have done, post-1994. But that is no different to most solo artists, whether they be Prince, Michael Jackson, Bruce Springsteen, David Bowie or whoever else you care to mention. They will write their own songs, but also have contributions from other songwriters. They will bring in session players to realise their vision, but to also contribute to the creative evolution of the album they are making. But all of those solo artists will decide exactly what songs make the album, how they are edited, how they are mixed, what contributions from others to include on the album and what to chuck out. Every final decision is made by the solo artist.

You cannot tell me for one minute that Buckethead or Finck or DJ Ashba or Richard Fortus or Dizzy Reed have told W. Axl Rose what songs should make the album, or what should stay off, or how many guitar solos to include etc. They will contribute their ideas, they will play on the album, but if Axl wants to ditch ANY part of their contributions, he will do so without needing to consult any of them. It is his decision. he is the boss. That is not how it worked with the AFD & UYI line-ups of GnR and that is not how most "bands" operate. That is how solo artists operate. Many solo artists have the same touring band for years on end, and those touring band members often play on the albums too. That doesn't make them equal members of a "band", because the solo artist has final say on everything. Just like Axl.

Chinese Democracy is a solo album in all but name, and the new GnR is a solo project in all but name. But I am still interested, because Axl Rose is a creative genius, and I will always be interested in any new music he comes out with.

Bravo sir. Excellent post and points.

[Guest gunns5]

Overall I just can't see how people consider this a real band, in the traditional sense.

So what do you want us to do? Refer to it as the "Axl Rose Band"? Like it or not, Axl owns the name and he's the sole founding member left in the band. He runs the show. He calls the shots. It's like that for a lotta bands.

Also, I think you are heavily discounting Buckethead's impact. I'm not sure how you can call Chinese Democracy an "Axl Rose record" when Buckethead's stamp is all over that album.

Furthermore, you've also created this false notion of a "real band." I'm fairly confident you made a freudian slip there, as I saw in another thread you refered to an old lineup of GnR as the "real Gnr." That right there proves your bias of perception. Because I'm going to tell you right now- I don't think you know what a "real band, in the traditional sense" really is if GnR isn't a "real band, in the traditional sense." But really- what are you actually trying to tell us? Well, you're trying to tell us that Axl has too much control of the band now, and therefore it ceased being Guns n Roses and for all practical purposes became his solo project. Is that about it? Careful, you may not like what you find when you seek out the answer to who willingly ceded the name of the band to Axl way back when.

Oh also, I'd brush up on recent quotes from band members. DJ said he's written 10 or 12 songs specifically for GnR. That certainly doesn't sound like an "Axl Rose solo project" to me. Just a thought.

In the end, this whole discussion is just semantics and frivolous hair splitting. Oh and Axl actually answered a question about Gnr vs solo project in the chats. Just fyi.

You miss the point. I'm not saying Axl writes every note of every song on Chinese Democracy and then hires people to play exactly what he has written. He has creative collaborators. He will bring in musicians not only to realise his vision, but to contribute creatively with their own ideas. And that is what several of the GnR line-up have done, post-1994. But that is no different to most solo artists, whether they be Prince, Michael Jackson, Bruce Springsteen, David Bowie or whoever else you care to mention. They will write their own songs, but also have contributions from other songwriters. They will bring in session players to realise their vision, but to also contribute to the creative evolution of the album they are making. But all of those solo artists will decide exactly what songs make the album, how they are edited, how they are mixed, what contributions from others to include on the album and what to chuck out. Every final decision is made by the solo artist.

You cannot tell me for one minute that Buckethead or Finck or DJ Ashba or Richard Fortus or Dizzy Reed have told W. Axl Rose what songs should make the album, or what should stay off, or how many guitar solos to include etc. They will contribute their ideas, they will play on the album, but if Axl wants to ditch ANY part of their contributions, he will do so without needing to consult any of them. It is his decision. he is the boss. That is not how it worked with the AFD & UYI line-ups of GnR and that is not how most "bands" operate. That is how solo artists operate. Many solo artists have the same touring band for years on end, and those touring band members often play on the albums too. That doesn't make them equal members of a "band", because the solo artist has final say on everything. Just like Axl.

Chinese Democracy is a solo album in all but name, and the new GnR is a solo project in all but name. But I am still interested, because Axl Rose is a creative genius, and I will always be interested in any new music he comes out with.

Didn't Axl say that he didn't want this i love on CD, however the band members pushed for it to be on there cause they liked it/wanted it?

[jmapelian]

I think you are talking of the 1999 to 2004 lineups guys...

The current lineup doesn't write music at all.

This is the real trolling.

Really? How do you figure? Can you name just one song the band has written in the 3 yrs DJs been in the band?

To me it seems to be a fact. You may not like the facts but don't say someone is trolling just because they point out the obviousm

[jmapelian]

Overall I just can't see how people consider this a real band, in the traditional sense.

So what do you want us to do? Refer to it as the "Axl Rose Band"? Like it or not, Axl owns the name and he's the sole founding member left in the band. He runs the show. He calls the shots. It's like that for a lotta bands.

Also, I think you are heavily discounting Buckethead's impact. I'm not sure how you can call Chinese Democracy an "Axl Rose record" when Buckethead's stamp is all over that album.

Furthermore, you've also created this false notion of a "real band." I'm fairly confident you made a freudian slip there, as I saw in another thread you refered to an old lineup of GnR as the "real Gnr." That right there proves your bias of perception. Because I'm going to tell you right now- I don't think you know what a "real band, in the traditional sense" really is if GnR isn't a "real band, in the traditional sense." But really- what are you actually trying to tell us? Well, you're trying to tell us that Axl has too much control of the band now, and therefore it ceased being Guns n Roses and for all practical purposes became his solo project. Is that about it? Careful, you may not like what you find when you seek out the answer to who willingly ceded the name of the band to Axl way back when.

Oh also, I'd brush up on recent quotes from band members. DJ said he's written 10 or 12 songs specifically for GnR. That certainly doesn't sound like an "Axl Rose solo project" to me. Just a thought.

In the end, this whole discussion is just semantics and frivolous hair splitting. Oh and Axl actually answered a question about Gnr vs solo project in the chats. Just fyi.

You miss the point. I'm not saying Axl writes every note of every song on Chinese Democracy and then hires people to play exactly what he has written. He has creative collaborators. He will bring in musicians not only to realise his vision, but to contribute creatively with their own ideas. And that is what several of the GnR line-up have done, post-1994. But that is no different to most solo artists, whether they be Prince, Michael Jackson, Bruce Springsteen, David Bowie or whoever else you care to mention. They will write their own songs, but also have contributions from other songwriters. They will bring in session players to realise their vision, but to also contribute to the creative evolution of the album they are making. But all of those solo artists will decide exactly what songs make the album, how they are edited, how they are mixed, what contributions from others to include on the album and what to chuck out. Every final decision is made by the solo artist.

You cannot tell me for one minute that Buckethead or Finck or DJ Ashba or Richard Fortus or Dizzy Reed have told W. Axl Rose what songs should make the album, or what should stay off, or how many guitar solos to include etc. They will contribute their ideas, they will play on the album, but if Axl wants to ditch ANY part of their contributions, he will do so without needing to consult any of them. It is his decision. he is the boss. That is not how it worked with the AFD & UYI line-ups of GnR and that is not how most "bands" operate. That is how solo artists operate. Many solo artists have the same touring band for years on end, and those touring band members often play on the albums too. That doesn't make them equal members of a "band", because the solo artist has final say on everything. Just like Axl.

Chinese Democracy is a solo album in all but name, and the new GnR is a solo project in all but name. But I am still interested, because Axl Rose is a creative genius, and I will always be interested in any new music he comes out with.

Bravo sir. Excellent post and points.

Actually I'm prtty sure its the record label that determines what songs go on an album and what gets released as singles; unless you are your own record label ak slash

[saber_]

I don't care what people do...lol. I still say I'm going to see "Guns N' Roses" ..I don't call it Axls solo band...because it is still called GNR..but in my mind, that's what it is. I do consider the original line up the real band...but you can consider what ever you want. I'm not trying to tell people what to think.

Well apparently you care enough to create a thread trying to establish the your belief that Guns n Roses is now a solo project. I mean, what's the point of this thread? Don't take this the wrong way, but like I said in my original post, it's common knowledge that Axl runs the show. Why that concept deserves increased attention and dissection is beyond me, but hey, like you said, you can consider whatever you want. Unlike you, I don't go around saying "the real gnr" like some sort of purist fanboy. For me, it's sufficient to just say original lineup or original gnr. And that was real slick how you totally dodged the context in which you used the phrase "real gnr" in that other thread.

I hope those songs DJ wrote will have an impact on a future gnr record. I can't say that I think that will happen, but if it does, it will definitely make it seem a lot less like a solo project. Many people have made good points on the subject of why it's hard for me (and them) to perceive it as a band. The main reason being Axl's ultimate say in everything.

Well gee whillakers I wish you'd make up your mind. How is DJ writing 10 songs any different than Bucket or Robin coming up with songs? See, there's a gap in your logic. Actually several. This whole idea of it not being a "real band" is just ridiculous. That's a mildly clever way to show your disapproval. Now I do acknowledge that Axl's control of the band means that there is indeed some validity to the notion it is now his vehicle. But guess what? That tends to happen when you're the sole remaining original (i'm sorry "real") member left. So you're telling us Axl is the boss. Well nooooooo shit sherlock. The bottom line is: the name of the band is Guns n Roses. Take it or leave it. But all you're doing here is stealth trolling.

I know who "willingly ceded the name way back when". I know my GNR history. I don' happent see it like that...but that's another discussion for another board.

You don't see it like what? Slash is on the fucking record saying he willingly signed the name over, because he thought it was the right thing to do. Ohhh, but i'm sure somewhere you detected in his voice the deep regret. And that right there is what's eating at all Slash's devotees. Yes indeed, it was your boy Slash who GAVE AWAY the band to Axl. So, you can blame Axl for having a singular grip on the band, but you can also blame Slash for enabling him to do so. Whoops.

Buckethead did a great job on CD, no denying that but it was all under Axl's direction, and aimed under Axl's vision. It was up to Axl which parts got used, edited, replaced, thrown out, rearranged, etc. LOTS of solo artists use outside musicians to accomplish these feats. Axl's vision was the whole point of Chinese. The nu guys openly admit this.

I cannot believe how you people are going to twist this shit. Unbelievable. Yes I acknowledge that CD was Axl's vision. But there's a difference between being an orchestrator and being a solo project boss. I'll be damned if I sit here and let you say that everything Buckethead did on CD was meticulously guided by Axl. That's complete horseshit. Bucket worked with Axl on creating those songs, and it's quite frankly laughable that you attribute every guitar note Buckethead created to Axl. There was creative freedom there, you're just in denial about it for some reason.

As to the "real GNR" comment, that's cool if this is what you consider "real GNR". No problem there. Each to their own. [blah blah blaaaahh obvious statements blah blah blah]

I didn't say I consider this iteration of Guns anything, other than, well y'know- their legal name. Only children and bitter cupcakes are going to use the phrase "real" GnR. I love how you people are going to use this "real GnR" bullshit so hypocritically. Because to some of you, the UYI is just as "real" as the AFD lineup. Whoops! You can't have it both ways. Either "real" GnR died the second Adler walked off the stage at farm aid in '90, OR you consider "real" GnR to be anything pre-94. Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Of course you strike me as the type who worships Gilby.

And last but not least, DJ wrote 10 or 12 songs specifically for GNR. Uhh...so? No telling if they'll be rearranged hardcore by Axl...or even used at all. From what we know and were told, they haven't been in the studio since they wrapped up recording Chinese Democracy, well before DJ joined the band, so it's much, much too early to speculate on the future and how it's to be handled.

I love how people like you pretend to know everything that goes on in the studio. As if you're some clairvoyant know-it-all. But when you say something as ignorant as "no telling if they'll be rearranged hardcore by Axl," it pretty much shows that you're just bitter. There were plenty of cooks in the kitchen with Chinese Democracy, and to say it was all Axl is a fallacy.

[BS11290]

I don't care what people do...lol. I still say I'm going to see "Guns N' Roses" ..I don't call it Axls solo band...because it is still called GNR..but in my mind, that's what it is. I do consider the original line up the real band...but you can consider what ever you want. I'm not trying to tell people what to think.

Well apparently you care enough to create a thread trying to establish the your belief that Guns n Roses is now a solo project. I mean, what's the point of this thread? Don't take this the wrong way, but like I said in my original post, it's common knowledge that Axl runs the show. Why that concept deserves increased attention and dissection is beyond me, but hey, like you said, you can consider whatever you want. Unlike you, I don't go around saying "the real gnr" like some sort of purist fanboy. For me, it's sufficient to just say original lineup or original gnr. And that was real slick how you totally dodged the context in which you used the phrase "real gnr" in that other thread.

I hope those songs DJ wrote will have an impact on a future gnr record. I can't say that I think that will happen, but if it does, it will definitely make it seem a lot less like a solo project. Many people have made good points on the subject of why it's hard for me (and them) to perceive it as a band. The main reason being Axl's ultimate say in everything.

Well gee whillakers I wish you'd make up your mind. How is DJ writing 10 songs any different than Bucket or Robin coming up with songs? See, there's a gap in your logic. Actually several. This whole idea of it not being a "real band" is just ridiculous. That's a mildly clever way to show your disapproval. Now I do acknowledge that Axl's control of the band means that there is indeed some validity to the notion it is now his vehicle. But guess what? That tends to happen when you're the sole remaining original (i'm sorry "real") member left. So you're telling us Axl is the boss. Well nooooooo shit sherlock. The bottom line is: the name of the band is Guns n Roses. Take it or leave it. But all you're doing here is stealth trolling.

I know who "willingly ceded the name way back when". I know my GNR history. I don' happent see it like that...but that's another discussion for another board.

You don't see it like what? Slash is on the fucking record saying he willingly signed the name over, because he thought it was the right thing to do. Ohhh, but i'm sure somewhere you detected in his voice the deep regret. And that right there is what's eating at all Slash's devotees. Yes indeed, it was your boy Slash who GAVE AWAY the band to Axl. So, you can blame Axl for having a singular grip on the band, but you can also blame Slash for enabling him to do so. Whoops.

Buckethead did a great job on CD, no denying that but it was all under Axl's direction, and aimed under Axl's vision. It was up to Axl which parts got used, edited, replaced, thrown out, rearranged, etc. LOTS of solo artists use outside musicians to accomplish these feats. Axl's vision was the whole point of Chinese. The nu guys openly admit this.

I cannot believe how you people are going to twist this shit. Unbelievable. Yes I acknowledge that CD was Axl's vision. But there's a difference between being an orchestrator and being a solo project boss. I'll be damned if I sit here and let you say that everything Buckethead did on CD was meticulously guided by Axl. That's complete horseshit. Bucket worked with Axl on creating those songs, and it's quite frankly laughable that you attribute every guitar note Buckethead created to Axl. There was creative freedom there, you're just in denial about it for some reason.

As to the "real GNR" comment, that's cool if this is what you consider "real GNR". No problem there. Each to their own. [blah blah blaaaahh obvious statements blah blah blah]

I didn't say I consider this iteration of Guns anything, other than, well y'know- their legal name. Only children and bitter cupcakes are going to use the phrase "real" GnR. I love how you people are going to use this "real GnR" bullshit so hypocritically. Because to some of you, the UYI is just as "real" as the AFD lineup. Whoops! You can't have it both ways. Either "real" GnR died the second Adler walked off the stage at farm aid in '90, OR you consider "real" GnR to be anything pre-94. Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Of course you strike me as the type who worships Gilby.

And last but not least, DJ wrote 10 or 12 songs specifically for GNR. Uhh...so? No telling if they'll be rearranged hardcore by Axl...or even used at all. From what we know and were told, they haven't been in the studio since they wrapped up recording Chinese Democracy, well before DJ joined the band, so it's much, much too early to speculate on the future and how it's to be handled.

I love how people like you pretend to know everything that goes on in the studio. As if you're some clairvoyant know-it-all. But when you say something as ignorant as "no telling if they'll be rearranged hardcore by Axl," it pretty much shows that you're just bitter. There were plenty of cooks in the kitchen with Chinese Democracy, and to say it was all Axl is a fallacy.

Well your long rant...is just that...a long rant. Not trying to downplay roles, just saying solo artists such as Michael Jackson, Lenny Kravitz, etc., have outsiders come in, throw their spin on things, and see how well it compliments their directions, and have full and total control as to what to do with it. Same thing Axl currently does with nu guns. And you didn't do much to dispute that point. "Whoops".

Second point: lineup changes are different than completely rearranging a band in every way under the sun. The players, how it's run, the drastic difference in sound, all what Axl did with the process of getting CD out the door, and then trying to sell this as the musical outfit. Changing one or two players and having the majority of the guys who were there with Axl when the band was signed is a completely different story.

And third point: I'm not trying to pretend to know "inside information", just saying that things probably aren't going to change internally now just because DJ's on board. You honestly think Axl's just gonna take these songs as is and not arrange them in anyway? You think that there's not a possibility that these songs may not even see the light of day? We just don't know, but I gave my opinion on the probabilty of the situation. We'll just have to wait and see, but to say the future is set in stone with this act is pretty far fetched given the history.

Quit getting so bent out of shape with this internet soap opera crap. Just trying to have a civil discussion about the topic at hand. Cool your jets.

[saber_]

Well your long rant...is just that...a long rant. Not trying to downplay roles, just saying solo artists such as Michael Jackson, Lenny Kravitz, etc., have outsiders come in, throw their spin on things, and see how well it compliments their directions, and have full and total control as to what to do with it. Same thing Axl currently does with nu guns. And you didn't do much to dispute that point. "Whoops".

Not really a rant, but I guess that's in line with the rest of your skewed perceptions. Essentially, I'm just calling a spade a spade, and quite frankly this perpetual stealth trolling annoyance crusade is getting old. Axl's had control of the band for... how many years now? I mean get over it or... y'know... go away. Just a thought.

Ohh but I see how it is, now you're assigning the role of "outsider" to band members. Jesus Christ what the fuck, it's like you've deluded yourself into thinking Axl is Chuck Berry or something. In any event, once again you've used the phrase "full and total control as to what to do with it." As someone else in the thread pointed out, the record label had a say in it. And if you read a couple of interviews, there were others who directly influenced the overdubbing and other things. Tommy explicitly stated in a recent interview that there some of the overdubbing was directly attributable to record-company types and other people.

Second point: lineup changes are different than completely rearranging a band in every way under the sun. The players, how it's run, the drastic difference in sound, all what Axl did with the process of getting CD out the door, and then trying to sell this as the musical outfit. Changing one or two players and having the majority of the guys who were there with Axl when the band was signed is a completely different story.

What a steaming pile of bullshit!! Are you kidding me? THEY QUIT! Do you even know that? Axl didn't "completely rearrange" the band. THEY ALL QUIT!!!(except Steve) Why you're trying to lie and spin your way out of this is beyond me. Axl didn't "change one or two players." He REPLACED one or two players after they left. The bottom line is if you're going to use the term "real GnR," then you had better include Tracy, Roberta, and Gilby. I won't be including them, though. You see, I already went through what you're going through... 20 years ago. And then I got over it.. when I was 13. I didn't like Matt's sound and style in the band, I didn't like Gilby, and I don't like Tracy and Roberta's backing vocals. But hey, if that's "real GnR" to you, more power to you and your ilk. I'm not sure why it's okay to replace Izzy with Gilby, but not okay to replace any other members who QUIT. It appears as if you and your kind will never get over Slash signing the name over. But of course you'll never acknowledge that the root cause of your unhappiness is him signing it over- he was just smacked out on heroin and drunk, so he gets a free pass for not fighting for GnR. Personally, I hold that against him- not for the same reasons you do- but because he has tried ever so hard to associate himself with the band after he signed it away. He blew it. Just admit it already.

And third point: I'm not trying to pretend to know "inside information", just saying that things probably aren't going to change internally now just because DJ's on board. You honestly think Axl's just gonna take these songs as is and not arrange them in anyway? You think that there's not a possibility that these songs may not even see the light of day? We just don't know, but I gave my opinion on the probabilty of the situation. We'll just have to wait and see, but to say the future is set in stone with this act is pretty far fetched given the history.

Quit getting so bent out of shape with this internet soap opera crap. Just trying to have a civil discussion about the topic at hand. Cool your jets.

First of all, i'm not bent out of shape. So please spare me the holier than thou message board posturing. Considering you're just a new alt of some poster who's been coming here for years, that's rich. Second of all, arranging songs doesn't equate to a solo project. So quit using that as some sort of end-all be-all definition of what a solo project is. Here's the deal: Axl is the president, not the dictator, of GnR. Axl's no David Lee Roth, that's all I'm sayin. Eat 'em and Smile. ; )

[wasted]

I thought I solved this mystery already. Axl didn't write all the songs himself. Hence not a solo record.

[SoulMonster]

You cannot tell me for one minute that Buckethead or Finck or DJ Ashba or Richard Fortus or Dizzy Reed have told W. Axl Rose what songs should make the album, or what should stay off, or how many guitar solos to include etc.

This I Love?

I think it is much more a collaborative effort than what you sketch out in your post. I think other band members bring in song ideas. Hence it is not a solo project, even if the frontman of the band, the bandleader, the only surviving member from the start and the visionary, has a vote of veto. It is a band with a strong leader.

[Tyler Drama]

Yes, I also would like to confirm that Axl did not want to do This I Love.

[DrBrownstone]

popcorn, i know you wanna make this a debate (you already have) and thats unfortunate, because I didn't make this thread to argue. I wanted to hear peoples opinions on both sides. It was going pretty well til you got involved.

Also, you seem very intent on calling me out, for all sorts of shit. Like making this thread. You seem to think that the only reason I did it was to "stealth cupcake" and establish my beliefs. This is absurd man... you're like a private detective at an elementary school investigating a stolen soda. Chill the fuck out.

I like this part too. but hey, like you said, you can consider whatever you want. Unlike you, I don't That's where I stopped caring about that paragraph. You resorted to that, and I just don't care enough to fight with you. And what am I dodging? I do consider the original line up the real band. I've said this a few times. I still like the new band. I just don't consider it real GNR. What's your point? Are you having a bad day?

[jellyzero]

dude its chill... bs happens when cupcakes like GNRSkidRow1 think their elitest views are the only things that count on a GNR board cuz their post counts or whatever are high

i for one just think slash and axl are both amazing musicians and would love for them to get back together one day.. b/c i literally listen to almost nothing but GNR and i still never get bored of it. having said that, TWAT is probably

my favorite song of all time and even if its axl solo project (which at this point... lets face it, it is) i dont care because it is just that good

You are right. It's not hard to get a high post count when "cool" and "huh" count towards your total. Some of us only post when we have something to add to the discussion.

[saber_]

It was going pretty well til you got involved.

Oh whatever. Don't be so hypocritical. I can't wait til the search feature is fixed. Of course let's not forget there's been several times in other threads you've outright insulted me unprovoked, ahh but here... you get to portray me as the bad guy, derailing your precious little thread... just like you portray Axl as the bad guy. It's touching really. The bottom line is this: by using the word "real" and creating a thread about it, you ARE trolling, despite all your noble posturing and posing as innocent.

I do consider the original line up the real band. I've said this a few times. I still like the new band. I just don't consider it real GNR. What's your point?

Is thaaaat so?

So what do you consider the Use Your Illusions lineup(s)? Is that real GnR? Think carefully now. Because if not, I just want you to know that when I was a lad, I moved on from the fact that Steven and his drum kit had been removed from the band. And let me tell you, it bothered me a lot as a 13 year old. I missed Steve's sound. A lot. But guess what? I got over it, and when Gilby the Izzy lookalike was allowed into the band, I shrugged and still called it Guns n Roses. Shit happens in rock n roll.

The bottom line is this: you seem blind to the fact that several posters have already pointed out several key ways in which Guns n Roses operates different from a true solo act. So what's your point?

Edited March 5, 2012 by Popcorn's Timbre

[DrBrownstone]

Holy shit man.You're really bent out of shape over this aren't you?

When did I portray Axl as the bad guy? I love Axl, as an entertainer/artist. I just happen to think that his way of handling the name of the band was wrong. I still love his music.

"derailing your precious little thread." I love your condescending angle of attack. It's really humorous.

I said I respect all opinions, when I made this thread, for discussion on what made people think of this as a band rather than a solo act. I just see things the way I do, and that's that. You seem to have a problem with my opinion. That's been your whole central thesis for all of your posts. I think you're picking through a straw, talking about bucket's work on CD, etc. but like I said, I can respect the way you see things. Not much else I can say. You really need to not get so worked up over this kind of stuff. I made a thread to hear what people think. You're a lot more focussed on arguing.

[Nosaj Thing]

Holy shit man.You're really bent out of shape over this aren't you?

When did I portray Axl as the bad guy? I love Axl, as an entertainer/artist. I just happen to think that his way of handling the name of the band was wrong. I still love his music.

"derailing your precious little thread." I love your condescending angle of attack. It's really humorous.

I said I respect all opinions, when I made this thread, for discussion on what made people think of this as a band rather than a solo act. I just see things the way I do, and that's that. You seem to have a problem with my opinion. That's been your whole central thesis for all of your posts. I think you're picking through a straw, talking about bucket's work on CD, etc. but like I said, I can respect the way you see things. Not much else I can say. You really need to not get so worked up over this kind of stuff. I made a thread to hear what people think. You're a lot more focussed on arguing.

Why do you bother and reply to that idiot bro? Use the ignore button

[saber_]

Oh look it's pi2loc, contributing to the intellectual discussion level. Somehow I knew he would show up. He's one of the biggest Axl-hater Slash fanboys on the forum, and so it ruins his little world when people tell the truth about Slash. In his world, you're only allowed to blame Axl, or you're an enemy.

But hey, you guys carry on with your deep philosophically intellectual and meaningful discussion about whether or not Guns n Roses is a solo act. I'll step aside now and stop bumping your thread.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Popcorn's Timbre