comparing GNR to a solo project

[DrBrownstone]

I was watching this video, and noticed a part, around the 1 minute mark, where Myles Kennedy says that the band members built the songs for Slash's solo record around Slash's ideas. This made me think of the Chinese Democracy recording process, and the things we've heard from a few of the GNR band members...I think Richard or Tommy said it. They said basically the same thing...we come in and contribute what we think works, but ultimately it's Axl's decision what stays and what doesn't...or something along those lines. So what makes this any different than a solo artist? I'm not trying to start a feud here between Axl/Slash or anything of the sort, I just want peoples opinions...because I like CD a lot, like the current band a lot, seen them twice and loved every second of it. I just don't see it as GNR...I view it as Axl's solo project, with some kick ass musicians who I've come to really like...so I don't want anyone thinking I'm trolling or an Axl hater, because I'm far from it. This is just a subject that has always been interesting to me.

Edited March 4, 2012 by DrBrownstone

[Tyler Drama]

Cool

[DrBrownstone]

^Are you really that bored?

[Tyler Drama]

^Are you really that bored?

You're saying the same thing that's been said a thousand times... that this is a solo project and not the real Guns N' Roses. You're honestly just looking for trouble (or 'trolling') starting this thread. If anything it belongs in Dust N' Bones.

[DrBrownstone]

This is a gnr discussion board. I said in my first post that I'm not trolling, that I love the band. I've seen this band twice, my third being next weekend, can't wait. I think it makes for an interesting discussion. This board is full of people with interesting points of view.

...Why did you even post in the thread? It's pretty obvious youre hoping to get some "lol's" from some people. I don't get it...waste of time IMO. Seems to me that you're the one trolling.

[Tyler Drama]

Ya know, just because you say you're not trolling, doesn't mean you aren't. I'm just saying, instead of discussion, you're going to get chaos. I'd be surprised if you didn't realize that from the start.

[DrBrownstone]

Ya know, just because you say you're not trolling, doesn't mean you aren't. I'm just saying, instead of discussion, you're going to get chaos. I'd be surprised if you didn't realize that from the start.

It turns into "chaos" because people like you come in the thread and steer the discussion that way. I'm surprised you didn't realize that from the start.

Why don't you just stop posting in here man? Seriously what the fuck was the purpose of your 3 posts in here? Do I come in your threads and try to derail them as soon as you post them?

[Tyler Drama]

You're right, I'm sorry.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Where is Flayer and that Obama meme?

[Guns n' Swedes]

I think you make an interesting point there Dr Brownstone. I'm an Axl fan so I don't really care if it's a band or not as long as they show this kind of love for each other on stage, it doesn't really matter to me.

I think it's hard calling it a band in the way you describe it though. More like a solo thing. Since it seems it's always Axl's decision ultimately it's not a genuine band and I don't think it could ever be in any other way.

[Lirosee]

LOL! This is so random but I'll use this thread for this... Can someone remind me who wrote the lyrics for Patience, was it Axl or Izzy? And where can I prove who wrote it? Thanks in advance!

I know, I'm a horrible fan...

[Tyler Drama]

Izzy and Axl both wrote Patience.

Edited March 4, 2012 by GNRSkidRow1

[DrazenX]

dude its chill... bs happens when cupcakes like GNRSkidRow1 think their elitest views are the only things that count on a GNR board cuz their post counts or whatever are high

i for one just think slash and axl are both amazing musicians and would love for them to get back together one day.. b/c i literally listen to almost nothing but GNR and i still never get bored of it. having said that, TWAT is probably

my favorite song of all time and even if its axl solo project (which at this point... lets face it, it is) i dont care because it is just that good

[trqster]

To me GnR is Axl's band the same way that Slash has his own band and in the same way Loaded is Duff's band. They're all their own bosses these days...

The difference is that Axl kept the GnR name for his band and the others didn't and that of course is a big plus for Axl.

That being said I'm a huge old/new GnR fan.

[Guns n' Swedes]

Izzy and Axl both wrote Patience.

Mainly Izzy according to Axl

[dalsh327]

I was watching this video, and noticed a part, around the 1 minute mark, where Myles Kennedy says that the band members built the songs for Slash's solo record around Slash's ideas. This made me think of the Chinese Democracy recording process, and the things we've heard from a few of the GNR band members...I think Richard or Tommy said it. They said basically the same thing...we come in and contribute what we think works, but ultimately it's Axl's decision what stays and what doesn't...or something along those lines. So what makes this any different than a solo artist? I'm not trying to start a feud here between Axl/Slash or anything of the sort, I just want peoples opinions...because I like CD a lot, like the current band a lot, seen them twice and loved every second of it. I just don't see it as GNR...I view it as Axl's solo project, with some kick ass musicians who I've come to really like...so I don't want anyone thinking I'm trolling or an Axl hater, because I'm far from it. This is just a subject that has always been interesting to me.

Axl mentioned he felt there would be a difference between a solo project vs a band project.

As far as what fans feel, they're divided on whether it's in name only or a real band project.

I said this a while ago - fans would have been fine with Axl owning the name for legacy purposes, to prevent any Yoko Onos from making decisions over the back catalog, but to put out new music and bill yourself under a band name when you're the one member carrying on, was a huge gamble that was going to create conflicts within the fanbase. But when any band has a loyal fanbase, changes become a huge deal. And when it comes across as being money motivated, using the name is going to be questioned.

[wasted]

I think the difference is that Axl didn't write all the songs himself? It's like Robin brought Better in, it got worked on by everyone until it was GNR, that includes Axl. If Axl wrote Better and said you guys play this. Then it's solo? like Shackler's is Bucket song, then Axl added vocals, they worked on it. Axl didn't write it, then the band played it for him.

[Flayer]

I think Axl has certainly allowed others to contribute to the creative process when writing songs.

To me, what sets this as being Guns N' Roses the band and not an Axl Rose solo project is the choice to keep up with the old band's legacy - to continue playing their songs in concerrt. I think if Axl saw it as his personal solo project he'd stop performing the classics he might be tired of now and focus more on new material.

I think it's also affected how he thinks about the songwriting. Axl has many unconventional ideas that have a hard time fitting in with Guns N' Roses songs, My World being the example we all know best. With all the songs on Chinese Democracy, for example, you have guitar solos, a feature common to just about all GNR songs, but absent on My World, absent on Silkworms, almost absent on Oh My God - the other direction Axl has experimented with. I think in viewing it as Guns N' Roses, he steers his writing more into a certain style.

The difference between Axl's attitude and that of Slash, the other ex-members, and a ton of the fans, is their definition of what the band really means. To most of us it means the people who made up the band; Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven, and then Dizzy and Matt were Guns N' Roses. Then when the lineup shifted and we got new people like Brain and Bucket and Robin and Richard and Tommy, we started calling it 'the new band.' As the lineup shifts again, we view it as yet another band, with Ron and DJ and Frank.

In Axl's point of view; the band is defined by the 'sound' or the concept. Guns N' Roses is a musical ideal that is maintained no matter who's playing it. Thus, I don't Axl is recruiting 'hired guns' or slaves and yes-men, but other people that believe in the same ideal of GNR as he does and want to help him reach it. Axl's vision of the band is something a lot more like how King Crimson, for example, has operated.

[GivenToFly]

It probably is as the OP says. But does it matter? It's not like it's the first band built around its leader. Two of my favorite bands are Dire Straits and CCR. For most of their respective histories these two bands were just Mark Knopfler and John Fogerty respectively, with backing bands. Bu who cares? Really, what difference does it make? What does it change that is actually relevant?

[drtydane]

To me, what sets this as being Guns N' Roses the band and not an Axl Rose solo project is the choice to keep up with the old band's legacy - to continue playing their songs in concerrt. I think if Axl saw it as his personal solo project he'd stop performing the classics he might be tired of now and focus more on new material.

Im sure he is tired of the old songs. But look at the views people had of chinese democracy. As long as tickets are being sold as "guns n roses" tickets, people would b bullshit unless the setlist is at least 80% old material. With so many tours gone by, this is what we've ended up with. How can they do anything different on the next tour without releasing something.

I used to see nugnr as a band, but the primary writers on cd are gone, and its just axl playing wat they wrote every night, just like the afd and uyi line ups, and that's fine. Just don't call it something its not.

[GivenToFly]

They could have changed the setlist for these smaller shows if they'd really wanted, so I'm guessing they're ok with the songs.

[The Glow Inc.]

I think you are talking of the 1999 to 2004 lineups guys...

The current lineup doesn't write music at all.

[SoulMonster]

I was watching this video, and noticed a part, around the 1 minute mark, where Myles Kennedy says that the band members built the songs for Slash's solo record around Slash's ideas. This made me think of the Chinese Democracy recording process, and the things we've heard from a few of the GNR band members...I think Richard or Tommy said it. They said basically the same thing...we come in and contribute what we think works, but ultimately it's Axl's decision what stays and what doesn't...or something along those lines. So what makes this any different than a solo artist? I'm not trying to start a feud here between Axl/Slash or anything of the sort, I just want peoples opinions...because I like CD a lot, like the current band a lot, seen them twice and loved every second of it. I just don't see it as GNR...I view it as Axl's solo project, with some kick ass musicians who I've come to really like...so I don't want anyone thinking I'm trolling or an Axl hater, because I'm far from it. This is just a subject that has always been interesting to me.

Nah, it's no a solo effort because the songs are not written by one person. Many guys contribute and bring in whole song ideas. Axl being able to veto some ideas doesn't make it a solo project, many bands have one or two members who steer the artistic direction of the music. It is quite common in fact to have leaders in bands who take a larger responsibility for how things are done.

And since you insist on comparing it with Slash. With his band Slash is the one that brings in all the songs, and then the "band members" get to contribute to that song scaffold. With Guns N' Roses, other members could bring in whole songs which the other guys, Axl included, embellished (take Shackler's as an example).

[Young_Gun]

It's a valid discussion. Sure he might be 'trolling' or trying to stir up some members here, but it does not negate the fact that the topic is valid. I do view this band as Axl's solo project, but I don't care that Axl holds the name Guns N' Roses. To me, I don't care. He could call the band "Shit for breakfast", as long as he keeps putting out material as good as what was on Chinese Democracy, I'll be interested. But the dynamics and mechanics do not equate to a 'real' band ala Tool. Those guys have equal share of everything. Hell, I've seen interviews with the bandmembers where the drummer elaborates on the songwriter process and how it's a melting pot of the 4 members collaborating. But to those thinking this is a real close knit band... Come on. Do the bandmembers even see Axl when they are not touring? Do they have equal 1/8th share of the band in terms of splitting revenue and business and music direction? Are they on a salary or do they get proceeds from touring and album sales? Do they get paid to perform in the studio? I love this band and Chinese Democracy is my favorite Guns N' Roses album, but a traditional band this is not.

[DrBrownstone]

I was watching this video, and noticed a part, around the 1 minute mark, where Myles Kennedy says that the band members built the songs for Slash's solo record around Slash's ideas. This made me think of the Chinese Democracy recording process, and the things we've heard from a few of the GNR band members...I think Richard or Tommy said it. They said basically the same thing...we come in and contribute what we think works, but ultimately it's Axl's decision what stays and what doesn't...or something along those lines. So what makes this any different than a solo artist? I'm not trying to start a feud here between Axl/Slash or anything of the sort, I just want peoples opinions...because I like CD a lot, like the current band a lot, seen them twice and loved every second of it. I just don't see it as GNR...I view it as Axl's solo project, with some kick ass musicians who I've come to really like...so I don't want anyone thinking I'm trolling or an Axl hater, because I'm far from it. This is just a subject that has always been interesting to me.

Nah, it's no a solo effort because the songs are not written by one person. Many guys contribute and bring in whole song ideas. Axl being able to veto some ideas doesn't make it a solo project, many bands have one or two members who steer the artistic direction of the music. It is quite common in fact to have leaders in bands who take a larger responsibility for how things are done.

And since you insist on comparing it with Slash. With his band Slash is the one that brings in all the songs, and then the "band members" get to contribute to that song scaffold. With Guns N' Roses, other members could bring in whole songs which the other guys, Axl included, embellished (take Shackler's as an example).

I insisted on using Slash as the example because I didn't think about it until after watching the videos of him and his band recording apocalyptic love. When I caught that part, it made me think of Axl/GNR. How many songs on CD were brought in by other members? I know bucket had shacklers, or was at least the inspiration for it. What others? Would you say it's about 85% Axl's input and the rest of the band has 15? Or closer to 50/50? It just seems to me, and I'm sure many others, that ever since the break up (after 94) that Axl has brought in people to contribute, but in a very limited way...like how he had brain copy josh freese's drumming note for note.