Axl Apologizes to Cleveland but Stands Firm!

[BlackHoleGravity]

There was more guns n roses at the hall of fame than at a guns n roses^TM show since 1993. That's the way it is, that's the way 99% of fans see it, that's the way 99% of the public sees it. Just because something is called something doesn't make it so.

no one thinks GNR isn't about Axl and Izzy, clearly you think it's not though since you support this new band - sans Izzy. The members inducted to the hall of fame are the only real members of Guns N Roses. Bumblefoot noodling over a 10 year old song of which he has NO IDEA the inspiration and development of the song doesn't mean anymore than Shannon Hoon adding additional vocals to Don't Cry.

Everybody at one time used to think that the sun revolved around the earth, didn't make it true. People can see things whatever way they want, it doesnt give them a patent on truth.

Izzy chose to leave the band - no reason for me to punish the new-er guys for Izzy's choice. You can keep saying that the guys inducted are the only "real" members but its funny that Matt who did not participate in song-writing as the songs were written before him is seen as soooo deserving of the GN'R title but people like Tommy, Chris, Brain who HAVE co-written songs are pooh-poohed because hey, all that matters is the historical factor of who was there first. Human beings should be ashamed of taking over planet earth- it belongs to the dinosaurs and other species who were here first.

Who says Bumblefoot would have no idea about the inspiration behind songs? Through the miracles of modern technology, he might be able to pick up a phone and call the guys who helped write it and have a conversation.

No one thinks GN'R isnt about Axl and Izzy? That's a hoot. Read what LA 0013 said, go check out the signatures some people have put up with pictures of Duff, Matt, Slash and Steven as "Guns N Roses". Like I said, the hypocrisy of the "we are all about the original band" crowd has been exposed.

They inducted the members that played on the albums at the peak of their fame. Whether or not you consider Chinese Democracy a good record or 'GNR record' has no bearing on the decision. It didn't have the impact that the other albums had. The decision to add the members from the 80's and 90's wasn't because they were there first. It was because they played on the records that were recorded when GNR was one of the biggest bands in the world. It doesn't matter how well bumblefoot plays the songs, how many songs the new guys have writing credits on, or if bumblefoot knows the inspiration behind the old songs. They just took the guys that recorded and played with the band when the band was one of the biggest rock acts. By the time Chinese came out, GNRs popularity largely declined from the 80's and 90's. The new band is considered less musically significant than the old band by many, no matter how good of musicians they may be.

And for all this 'axl is GNR', 'slash is GNR', 'izzy is GNR' crap, guns n roses was/is a band, not one guy. One guy doesn't make the band.

Exactly, one guy never makes a classic band, it is always a situation where the sum of the parts is greater than any individual...you can see this time and time again with all the classic bands that broke up...hence the never ending desire for reunions, not just for GNR, but Led Zep, Pink Floyd, you name it. Personally, I don't think Axl's real reason for not attending was given by him...I think there is much more going on with him...he has had vocal problems and I'm sure in some ways lacks confidence, and surely doesn't want to be seen as the weak link in a classic lineup reunion...especially with all of the back and forth drama over the years.

[downzy]

They inducted the members that played on the albums at the peak of their fame. Whether or not you consider Chinese Democracy a good record or 'GNR record' has no bearing on the decision. It didn't have the impact that the other albums had. The decision to add the members from the 80's and 90's wasn't because they were there first. It was because they played on the records that were recorded when GNR was one of the biggest bands in the world. It doesn't matter how well bumblefoot plays the songs, how many songs the new guys have writing credits on, or if bumblefoot knows the inspiration behind the old songs. They just took the guys that recorded and played with the band when the band was one of the biggest rock acts. By the time Chinese came out, GNRs popularity largely declined from the 80's and 90's. The new band is considered less musically significant than the old band by many, no matter how good of musicians they may be.

And for all this 'axl is GNR', 'slash is GNR', 'izzy is GNR' crap, guns n roses was/is a band, not one guy. One guy doesn't make the band.

I think this is the point that is often overlooked. Bands are more often than not inducted because they pushed their respective genre forward in some fashion. It's a valid criticism that a band like Rush is not in the hall as they are a monster in prog-rock (though personally, not my kind of music). Chinese Democracy might have been considered one of these albums had it been released 10 to 15 years ago. As it stood in 2008, it was a good to great album but borrowed heavily on a lot of sounds that came before it. I remember playing Shackler's Revenge to a few friends and the main response I got was, "When did Rob Zombie join Guns N' Roses?"

Guns N' Roses is in the hall of fame because of the contributions made to those involved in the writing AND recording of Appetite for Destruction, Lies, and the Use Your Illusion albums. You may disagree with those points, but your counter-arguments lack broad base support by the public and the experts who decipher these kinds of things. There's always an element of subjectivity when it comes to art, but it's not hard to comprehend why the lineup that was included did not include current members. Had the band started putting out albums in 1998 and they received recognition and success beyond what Chinese Democracy received, then I would have no problem with guys like Tommy, Robin and maybe Buckethead (assuming he stuck around) being included in that list. But that's not what happened, so the Hall chose to respect the band that matter and who truly pushed their genre forward.

Cheers,

Andrew

[rabia]

There was more guns n roses at the hall of fame than at a guns n roses^TM show since 1993. That's the way it is, that's the way 99% of fans see it, that's the way 99% of the public sees it. Just because something is called something doesn't make it so.

no one thinks GNR isn't about Axl and Izzy, clearly you think it's not though since you support this new band - sans Izzy. The members inducted to the hall of fame are the only real members of Guns N Roses. Bumblefoot noodling over a 10 year old song of which he has NO IDEA the inspiration and development of the song doesn't mean anymore than Shannon Hoon adding additional vocals to Don't Cry.

Everybody at one time used to think that the sun revolved around the earth, didn't make it true. People can see things whatever way they want, it doesnt give them a patent on truth.

Izzy chose to leave the band - no reason for me to punish the new-er guys for Izzy's choice. You can keep saying that the guys inducted are the only "real" members but its funny that Matt who did not participate in song-writing as the songs were written before him is seen as soooo deserving of the GN'R title but people like Tommy, Chris, Brain who HAVE co-written songs are pooh-poohed because hey, all that matters is the historical factor of who was there first. Human beings should be ashamed of taking over planet earth- it belongs to the dinosaurs and other species who were here first.

Who says Bumblefoot would have no idea about the inspiration behind songs? Through the miracles of modern technology, he might be able to pick up a phone and call the guys who helped write it and have a conversation.

No one thinks GN'R isnt about Axl and Izzy? That's a hoot. Read what LA 0013 said, go check out the signatures some people have put up with pictures of Duff, Matt, Slash and Steven as "Guns N Roses". Like I said, the hypocrisy of the "we are all about the original band" crowd has been exposed.

They inducted the members that played on the albums at the peak of their fame. Whether or not you consider Chinese Democracy a good record or 'GNR record' has no bearing on the decision. It didn't have the impact that the other albums had. The decision to add the members from the 80's and 90's wasn't because they were there first. It was because they played on the records that were recorded when GNR was one of the biggest bands in the world. It doesn't matter how well bumblefoot plays the songs, how many songs the new guys have writing credits on, or if bumblefoot knows the inspiration behind the old songs. They just took the guys that recorded and played with the band when the band was one of the biggest rock acts. By the time Chinese came out, GNRs popularity largely declined from the 80's and 90's. The new band is considered less musically significant than the old band by many, no matter how good of musicians they may be.

And for all this 'axl is GNR', 'slash is GNR', 'izzy is GNR' crap, guns n roses was/is a band, not one guy. One guy doesn't make the band.

Exactly, one guy never makes a classic band, it is always a situation where the sum of the parts is greater than any individual...you can see this time and time again with all the classic bands that broke up...hence the never ending desire for reunions, not just for GNR, but Led Zep, Pink Floyd, you name it. Personally, I don't think Axl's real reason for not attending was given by him...I think there is much more going on with him...he has had vocal problems and I'm sure in some ways lacks confidence, and surely doesn't want to be seen as the weak link in a classic lineup reunion...especially with all of the back and forth drama over the years.

That's hilarious. Axl's got problems with the level at which he can perform while people like Matt Sorum or Steven Adler are being overwhelmed by the universal applause for their technical brilliance, right? Is Myles in the list of greatest singers of all time like Axl?

If Axl is such a horrible singer, why do people keep wishing for a reunion? I mean, why climb down from the splendor that is Myles Kennedy to the supposed mediocrity that is Axl Rose? Why is a reunion the greatest dream for so many then?

[LA_0013]

Matt who did not participate in song-writing as the songs were written before him

Incorrect

LA

[BlackHoleGravity]

There was more guns n roses at the hall of fame than at a guns n roses^TM show since 1993. That's the way it is, that's the way 99% of fans see it, that's the way 99% of the public sees it. Just because something is called something doesn't make it so.

no one thinks GNR isn't about Axl and Izzy, clearly you think it's not though since you support this new band - sans Izzy. The members inducted to the hall of fame are the only real members of Guns N Roses. Bumblefoot noodling over a 10 year old song of which he has NO IDEA the inspiration and development of the song doesn't mean anymore than Shannon Hoon adding additional vocals to Don't Cry.

Everybody at one time used to think that the sun revolved around the earth, didn't make it true. People can see things whatever way they want, it doesnt give them a patent on truth.

Izzy chose to leave the band - no reason for me to punish the new-er guys for Izzy's choice. You can keep saying that the guys inducted are the only "real" members but its funny that Matt who did not participate in song-writing as the songs were written before him is seen as soooo deserving of the GN'R title but people like Tommy, Chris, Brain who HAVE co-written songs are pooh-poohed because hey, all that matters is the historical factor of who was there first. Human beings should be ashamed of taking over planet earth- it belongs to the dinosaurs and other species who were here first.

Who says Bumblefoot would have no idea about the inspiration behind songs? Through the miracles of modern technology, he might be able to pick up a phone and call the guys who helped write it and have a conversation.

No one thinks GN'R isnt about Axl and Izzy? That's a hoot. Read what LA 0013 said, go check out the signatures some people have put up with pictures of Duff, Matt, Slash and Steven as "Guns N Roses". Like I said, the hypocrisy of the "we are all about the original band" crowd has been exposed.

They inducted the members that played on the albums at the peak of their fame. Whether or not you consider Chinese Democracy a good record or 'GNR record' has no bearing on the decision. It didn't have the impact that the other albums had. The decision to add the members from the 80's and 90's wasn't because they were there first. It was because they played on the records that were recorded when GNR was one of the biggest bands in the world. It doesn't matter how well bumblefoot plays the songs, how many songs the new guys have writing credits on, or if bumblefoot knows the inspiration behind the old songs. They just took the guys that recorded and played with the band when the band was one of the biggest rock acts. By the time Chinese came out, GNRs popularity largely declined from the 80's and 90's. The new band is considered less musically significant than the old band by many, no matter how good of musicians they may be.

And for all this 'axl is GNR', 'slash is GNR', 'izzy is GNR' crap, guns n roses was/is a band, not one guy. One guy doesn't make the band.

Exactly, one guy never makes a classic band, it is always a situation where the sum of the parts is greater than any individual...you can see this time and time again with all the classic bands that broke up...hence the never ending desire for reunions, not just for GNR, but Led Zep, Pink Floyd, you name it. Personally, I don't think Axl's real reason for not attending was given by him...I think there is much more going on with him...he has had vocal problems and I'm sure in some ways lacks confidence, and surely doesn't want to be seen as the weak link in a classic lineup reunion...especially with all of the back and forth drama over the years.

That's hilarious. Axl's got problems with the level at which he can perform while people like Matt Sorum or Steven Adler are being overwhelmed by the universal applause for their technical brilliance, right? Is Myles in the list of greatest singers of all time like Axl?

If Axl is such a horrible singer, why do people keep wishing for a reunion? I mean, why climb down from the splendor that is Myles Kennedy to the supposed mediocrity that is Axl Rose? Why is a reunion the greatest dream for so many then?

The unfortunate reality is that most singers lose much of their range as they age, and the fact that Axl ravaged his voice at a young age through both his singing style and lifestyle doesn't help...nothing against him, it is just the reality of being a rock singer and aging. And yes, in my opinion, the pressure on him to deliver would be greater in a reunion situation than with his current lineup...he has less to prove to them, since he is obviously the boss, and less people are watching.

Edited April 18, 2012 by BlackHoleGravity

[downzy]

Secondly, why should "peak of their fame" be any criteria for judging? So relatively less commercially successful artists cant get into the RRHOF? That seems like a warped criteria. The simple fact is that there is an utter lack of consistency in the way they operate. The baseline criteria is that it has to be 25 years from the release of the first album for somebody to be eligible- that would eliminate those who joined during the UYI era from the running.

The main criteria for inclusion is that the artist pushes their genre forward. Often times this happens during their peak, but can happen later on as well (take a look at Radiohead, they'll be going in based on OK Computer, Kid A and In Rainbows, though The Bends doesn't hurt). GNR pushed their respective genre with Appetite, less so with Lies, and then again with the Use Your Illusion albums. Those involved in the writing and recording process of those albums have been chosen to be inducted. It also happened to be their peak of popularity as well.

I'm not going to argue that the Hall doesn't make mistakes. They definitely erred when they omitted Bob Welch when Fleetwood Mac was inducted. But Fleetwood Mac is a good example of inducting a band who started with one lineup and ended with another yet members who were included were ones who were deemed vital to the band pushing the musical envelope. Like I said, i think Welch should have been included, but if you go by your logic, Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckinghman would have been omitted because they weren't in the band when it started.

I think if you focus on the aspect of who was around for the critical artistic years it's bit easier to comprehend why the Hall chose the lineup they did for Guns N' Roses.

[LA_0013]

if you go by your logic, Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckinghman would have been omitted because they weren't in the band when it started.

I think if you focus on the aspect of who was around for the critical artistic years it's bit easier to comprehend why the Hall chose the lineup they did for Guns N' Roses.

Take a bow son. Spot on

LA

[BlackHoleGravity]

if you go by your logic, Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckinghman would have been omitted because they weren't in the band when it started.

I think if you focus on the aspect of who was around for the critical artistic years it's bit easier to comprehend why the Hall chose the lineup they did for Guns N' Roses.

Take a bow son. Spot on

LA

It's not about when a band starts, but rather when it peaks in terms of influence, mass appeal, etc...in GNR's case, it was right out of the gates with their debut album...different bands

are other circumstances...Fleetwood Mac is best known for their work once Stevie and Lindsey joined...sort of like Journey after Perry, Maiden after Dickinson...and on and on....

Edited April 18, 2012 by BlackHoleGravity

[twenty-nine]

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/h15648

Gunsguy edit to post full thing in first post:

To: Cleveland, Ohio, Guns N' Roses Fans and everyone who's shown support for my decision regarding the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame.

I seriously didn't plan on or expect the overwhelmingly positive response and public support for my decision regarding the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame. With such a generous outpouring of solidarity from fans, media outlets, writers and other artists, I'm truly humbled, blown away and unbelievably relieved! To be honest, I thought it would go the other way and was just hoping to weather the storm. As I said, I sincerely didn't want to disappoint anyone. It gets old being the outlaw even if "it's only rock and roll".

It took a lot of focus and soul searching to be sincere and informative while making a genuine effort to be somewhat diplomatic. We made, what I feel, are real efforts to learn about the Hall and the Board, spoke as I said with the president and various members, and though I inducted Elton John and Bernie Taupin in '94 saying something to the effect of "I'm learning what the Hall's about..."

I still don't exactly know or understand what the Hall is or how or why it makes money, where the money goes, who chooses the voters and why anyone or this board decides who, out of all the artists in the world that have contributed to this genre, officially "rock" enough to be in the Hall?

This isn't an attack. These are genuine issues I don't have enough verified information on to have more than rough ideas. Certainly not enough information to make any judgments about.

I would like to apologize to Cleveland, Ohio for not apologizing to them beforehand for not attending [the ceremony] in their city. I think they know how much I genuinely love performing there. Cleveland does in fact Rock!!

Now that the smoke's cleared a little, any desperate, misguided attacks have been just that, a pathetic stab at gossip, some lame vindictiveness, the usual entitlement crap, he's obsessed, crazy, volatile, a hater. I once bought a homeless woman a slice of pizza who yelled at me she wanted soup. We got her the soup. You can get your own.

Again: HUGE thanks to the fans and to everyone for the incredible public support. My congratulations to the other artists inducted. And my apologies to the city and people of Cleveland, Ohio. I hope you'll forgive me and we hope to see you again soon!

Keep Rockin',

Axl

Unlike my open letter to the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame, Guns N' Roses Fans and Whom It May Concern this was written for GNR's official website, Facebook account and my personal twitter account and not intended as a press release. If anyone does choose to pick this up as has been done previously I'd appreciate if you'd run in full including this paragraph so as not to give a partial picture, have things taken out of context or to imply or inadvertently give the impression this was intended for other outlets.

Thanks in advance. Peace-

I wonder if before Axl goes to a restaurant if he reads all the reviews he can find for it, if he learns who the owners are and where they get their food, how they came to own the restaurant, who came up with their recipes, who the head chef is and where were they trained, who those suppliers are and how they intend to spend the money he plans to give them for the meal, the names of the bar tenders and where they went to bar tending school, how do they plan to spend their tip, Does he ask if they plan to invest it back into the restaurant or blow it on a Saturday night out? What kind of work experience does the server have? Why are they working there and not at a different restaurant?

Give me a break. You had plenty of time to know what you needed to know. You and your team can find the source of leaked songs on the internet but can't figure out the RRHOF?

[downzy]

if you go by your logic, Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckinghman would have been omitted because they weren't in the band when it started.

I think if you focus on the aspect of who was around for the critical artistic years it's bit easier to comprehend why the Hall chose the lineup they did for Guns N' Roses.

Take a bow son. Spot on

LA

Wow it seems some of the grown ups have finally woke up. Great point! The reason NuGuns aren't accepted as Guns n' Roses isn't so much to do with the lineup changes it's that the current lineup simply hasn't established their own identity by releasing music of their own that stands up to the output of the classic lineup. I'm more than happy to call both Fleetwood Mac incarnations by the name for one reason and that's classic albums produced by all! Axl's band still hasn't released its "Rumours" yet and until it does the perception among the vast majority of fans isn't gonna change.

To many people on these boards, "Chinese Democracy" is GNR's equivalent to Fleetwood Mac's "Rumors." And it's great that they love the album, but to most people, Chinese Democracy resides outside of the GNR "canon." Rumors succeeded in changing people's minds about who Fleetwood Mac was at the time. People no longer questioned band membership since the Nicks/Buckingham lineup provided an album that was equal to if not better than some of the band's earlier attempts.

If you see Chinese Democracy as GNR's best album, or deserving equal consideration to AFD or UYI, then it's easier to swallow the current (or 2000s lineup) as Guns N' Roses. But that's such a small minority of GNR fans from past and present.

Edited April 18, 2012 by downzy

[LA_0013]

I wonder if before Axl goes to a restaurant if he reads all the reviews he can find for it, if he learns who the owners are and where they get their food, how they came to own the restaurant, who came up with their recipes, who the head chef is and where were they trained, who those suppliers are and how they intend to spend the money he plans to give them for the meal, the names of the bar tenders and where they went to bar tending school, how do they plan to spend their tip, Does he ask if they plan to invest it back into the restaurant or blow it on a Saturday night out? What kind of work experience does the server have? Why are they working there and not at a different restaurant?

Maybe he does?.... lol

[Ali]

if you go by your logic, Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckinghman would have been omitted because they weren't in the band when it started.

I think if you focus on the aspect of who was around for the critical artistic years it's bit easier to comprehend why the Hall chose the lineup they did for Guns N' Roses.

Take a bow son. Spot on

LA

It isn't really "spot on", though. It's easy to make a theory or explanation work when you cherry-pick examples that reinforce your theory or explanation while ignoring others. Was Josh Klinghoffer around for RHCP's "critical artistic years"? Was Robert Trujillo around for Metallica's "critical artistic years"?

The fact of the matter is that for every example I've seen of someone trying to rationalize the HOF's induction of the AFD/UYI lineups alone, there are examples that show that whatever rationale some poster here tries to come up with, that rationale, if it is in fact used by the HOF, is not consistently applied at all.

Ali

[LA_0013]

It isn't really "spot on", though. It's easy to make a theory or explanation work when you cherry-pick examples that reinforce your theory or explanation while ignoring others. Was Josh Klinghoffer around for RHCP's "critical artistic years"? Was Robert Trujillo around for Metallica's "critical artistic years"?

The fact of the matter is that for every example I've seen of someone trying to rationalize the HOF's induction of the AFD/UYI lineups alone, there are examples that show that whatever rationale some poster here tries to come up with, that rationale, if it is in fact used by the HOF, is not consistently applied at all.

Ali

Well, Im afraid that's just something the minority of 'Guns N Roses' fans will just have to deal with

LA

[realpoti]

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/h15648

Gunsguy edit to post full thing in first post:

To: Cleveland, Ohio, Guns N' Roses Fans and everyone who's shown support for my decision regarding the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame.

I seriously didn't plan on or expect the overwhelmingly positive response and public support for my decision regarding the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame. With such a generous outpouring of solidarity from fans, media outlets, writers and other artists, I'm truly humbled, blown away and unbelievably relieved! To be honest, I thought it would go the other way and was just hoping to weather the storm. As I said, I sincerely didn't want to disappoint anyone. It gets old being the outlaw even if "it's only rock and roll".

It took a lot of focus and soul searching to be sincere and informative while making a genuine effort to be somewhat diplomatic. We made, what I feel, are real efforts to learn about the Hall and the Board, spoke as I said with the president and various members, and though I inducted Elton John and Bernie Taupin in '94 saying something to the effect of "I'm learning what the Hall's about..."

I still don't exactly know or understand what the Hall is or how or why it makes money, where the money goes, who chooses the voters and why anyone or this board decides who, out of all the artists in the world that have contributed to this genre, officially "rock" enough to be in the Hall?

This isn't an attack. These are genuine issues I don't have enough verified information on to have more than rough ideas. Certainly not enough information to make any judgments about.

I would like to apologize to Cleveland, Ohio for not apologizing to them beforehand for not attending [the ceremony] in their city. I think they know how much I genuinely love performing there. Cleveland does in fact Rock!!

Now that the smoke's cleared a little, any desperate, misguided attacks have been just that, a pathetic stab at gossip, some lame vindictiveness, the usual entitlement crap, he's obsessed, crazy, volatile, a hater. I once bought a homeless woman a slice of pizza who yelled at me she wanted soup. We got her the soup. You can get your own.

Again: HUGE thanks to the fans and to everyone for the incredible public support. My congratulations to the other artists inducted. And my apologies to the city and people of Cleveland, Ohio. I hope you'll forgive me and we hope to see you again soon!

Keep Rockin',

Axl

Unlike my open letter to the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame, Guns N' Roses Fans and Whom It May Concern this was written for GNR's official website, Facebook account and my personal twitter account and not intended as a press release. If anyone does choose to pick this up as has been done previously I'd appreciate if you'd run in full including this paragraph so as not to give a partial picture, have things taken out of context or to imply or inadvertently give the impression this was intended for other outlets.

Thanks in advance. Peace-

I wonder if before Axl goes to a restaurant if he reads all the reviews he can find for it, if he learns who the owners are and where they get their food, how they came to own the restaurant, who came up with their recipes, who the head chef is and where were they trained, who those suppliers are and how they intend to spend the money he plans to give them for the meal, the names of the bar tenders and where they went to bar tending school, how do they plan to spend their tip, Does he ask if they plan to invest it back into the restaurant or blow it on a Saturday night out? What kind of work experience does the server have? Why are they working there and not at a different restaurant?

Give me a break. You had plenty of time to know what you needed to know. You and your team can find the source of leaked songs on the internet but can't figure out the RRHOF?

[vaida]

What's Cleveland got to do with it ?

More importantly - did Cleveland care much ?

[Damn_Smooth]

It's funny that the Slashites are bragging that they have a sheep mentality and follow the herd.

Good on ya. Enjoy your majority.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Damn_Smooth

[Ali]

It isn't really "spot on", though. It's easy to make a theory or explanation work when you cherry-pick examples that reinforce your theory or explanation while ignoring others. Was Josh Klinghoffer around for RHCP's "critical artistic years"? Was Robert Trujillo around for Metallica's "critical artistic years"?

Well that's actually more of an argument for their exclusion rather than one for the induction of any member of NuGnR. Personally I would have applied the same criteria used for GnR to both Metallica and RHCP cos it was the correct call to exclude anybody that didn't make a contribution during the important years.

It isn't really "spot on", though. It's easy to make a theory or explanation work when you cherry-pick examples that reinforce your theory or explanation while ignoring others. Was Josh Klinghoffer around for RHCP's "critical artistic years"? Was Robert Trujillo around for Metallica's "critical artistic years"?

The fact of the matter is that for every example I've seen of someone trying to rationalize the HOF's induction of the AFD/UYI lineups alone, there are examples that show that whatever rationale some poster here tries to come up with, that rationale, if it is in fact used by the HOF, is not consistently applied at all.

Ali

Well, Im afraid that's just something the minority of 'Guns N Roses' fans will just have to deal with

LA

I think you missed out the word "tiny" before minority in your post there buddy!

No, it's an argument for their inclusion, at least Tommy Stinson. One could very easily point out the legitimacy of including Tommy Stinson when saying, "Hey, if you're including Josh Klinghoffer, why not include Tommy Stinson?"

Ali

[maynard]

i guess it's easier to induct one new member than seven. the stage would be crowded.

Edited April 18, 2012 by maynard

[Ali]

No, it's an argument for their inclusion, at least Tommy Stinson. One could very easily point out the legitimacy of including Tommy Stinson when saying, "Hey, if you're including Josh Klinghoffer, why not include Tommy Stinson?"

Ali

No it's much more logical to say that Tommy Stinson has contributed nothing to the major success of Guns n' Roses and he was rightly not inducted as a result therefore Josh Klinghoffer shouldn't be inducted either.

But, Josh Klinghoffer WAS inducted. So, if you're in the GN'R camp and you see that information as it's made public, you have every right to ask the question, "Why not include Tommy then"?

Ali

[sailaway]

It isn't really "spot on", though. It's easy to make a theory or explanation work when you cherry-pick examples that reinforce your theory or explanation while ignoring others. Was Josh Klinghoffer around for RHCP's "critical artistic years"? Was Robert Trujillo around for Metallica's "critical artistic years"?

Well that's actually more of an argument for their exclusion rather than one for the induction of any member of NuGnR. Personally I would have applied the same criteria used for GnR to both Metallica and RHCP cos it was the correct call to exclude anybody that didn't make a contribution during the important years.

It isn't really "spot on", though. It's easy to make a theory or explanation work when you cherry-pick examples that reinforce your theory or explanation while ignoring others. Was Josh Klinghoffer around for RHCP's "critical artistic years"? Was Robert Trujillo around for Metallica's "critical artistic years"?

The fact of the matter is that for every example I've seen of someone trying to rationalize the HOF's induction of the AFD/UYI lineups alone, there are examples that show that whatever rationale some poster here tries to come up with, that rationale, if it is in fact used by the HOF, is not consistently applied at all.

Ali

Well, Im afraid that's just something the minority of 'Guns N Roses' fans will just have to deal with

LA

I think you missed out the word "tiny" before minority in your post there buddy!

No, it's an argument for their inclusion, at least Tommy Stinson. One could very easily point out the legitimacy of including Tommy Stinson when saying, "Hey, if you're including Josh Klinghoffer, why not include Tommy Stinson?"

Ali

I thought so as well Ali,there are numerous cases of noninclusion I take issue with as well

[ARX77]

No, it's an argument for their inclusion, at least Tommy Stinson. One could very easily point out the legitimacy of including Tommy Stinson when saying, "Hey, if you're including Josh Klinghoffer, why not include Tommy Stinson?"

Ali

No it's much more logical to say that Tommy Stinson has contributed nothing to the major success of Guns n' Roses and he was rightly not inducted as a result therefore Josh Klinghoffer shouldn't be inducted either.

But, Josh Klinghoffer WAS inducted. So, if you're in the GN'R camp and you see that information as it's made public, you have every right to ask the question, "Why not include Tommy then"?

Ali

The reason Tommy wasnt inducted was/ is because GnR hasnt released anything besides Chin Dem since the Spag Incident. IF we were now on GnR's 3rd album and they were constantly touring the world like say Metallica it would be different. Tommy shouldnt get in just because GnR has been is most steady paying gig. I could see an argument for the replacements though

[downzy]

No, it's an argument for their inclusion, at least Tommy Stinson. One could very easily point out the legitimacy of including Tommy Stinson when saying, "Hey, if you're including Josh Klinghoffer, why not include Tommy Stinson?"

Ali

No it's much more logical to say that Tommy Stinson has contributed nothing to the major success of Guns n' Roses and he was rightly not inducted as a result therefore Josh Klinghoffer shouldn't be inducted either.

But, Josh Klinghoffer WAS inducted. So, if you're in the GN'R camp and you see that information as it's made public, you have every right to ask the question, "Why not include Tommy then"?

Ali

Several reasons: 1) No one else being inducted under the RHCP banner objected to Klinghoffer being included; 2) the HOF considered I'm With You, the Chilies latest album, as part of their canon; 3) the HOF screwed up (Klinghoffer is now the youngest person to be included in the HOF, surpassing Stevie Wonder). The HOF has made other mistakes. But as Degenerate has noted, accidents should not make precedents. The HOF does not operate on hard and fast rules. There's lots to disparage the selection process and the HOF in general, but that doesn't necessitate calling into question the HOF's entire existence.

Life isn't fair, deal with it.

[Ali]

No, it's an argument for their inclusion, at least Tommy Stinson. One could very easily point out the legitimacy of including Tommy Stinson when saying, "Hey, if you're including Josh Klinghoffer, why not include Tommy Stinson?"

Ali

No it's much more logical to say that Tommy Stinson has contributed nothing to the major success of Guns n' Roses and he was rightly not inducted as a result therefore Josh Klinghoffer shouldn't be inducted either.

But, Josh Klinghoffer WAS inducted. So, if you're in the GN'R camp and you see that information as it's made public, you have every right to ask the question, "Why not include Tommy then"?

Ali

The reason Tommy wasnt inducted was/ is because GnR hasnt released anything besides Chin Dem since the Spag Incident. IF we were now on GnR's 3rd album and they were constantly touring the world like say Metallica it would be different. Tommy shouldnt get in just because GnR has been is most steady paying gig. I could see an argument for the replacements though

That's a complete arbitrary reason, though. You're coming up with a reason/theory/explanation to just reinforce the justification of excluding anyone from the new band. The "constant activity" argument isn't the one the HOF has observed consistently either.

Ali

[ARX77]

No, it's an argument for their inclusion, at least Tommy Stinson. One could very easily point out the legitimacy of including Tommy Stinson when saying, "Hey, if you're including Josh Klinghoffer, why not include Tommy Stinson?"

Ali

No it's much more logical to say that Tommy Stinson has contributed nothing to the major success of Guns n' Roses and he was rightly not inducted as a result therefore Josh Klinghoffer shouldn't be inducted either.

But, Josh Klinghoffer WAS inducted. So, if you're in the GN'R camp and you see that information as it's made public, you have every right to ask the question, "Why not include Tommy then"?

Ali

Cos the honour was nothing to do with Chinese Democracy or anything after the mid 90's at the peak of Guns success. Like it or not but the Chili Peppers are still at that level of success whereas Guns haven't been in years. Check out their most recent tour figures and there's a big difference. Personally I think the Chilis are shit but that doesn't change the fact that they're still incredibly successful. It would be a kick in the teeth to the people who were nominated here to have Tommy or any of the new band included cos they did nothing to earn it.

I think your point is what is missed by a lot of "new" fans. the Chili-peppers are still releasing new music where as GnR isnt and doesnt look like they will in the foreseeable future. Tommy doesnt deserve and induction simply for staying in GnR all these years (maybe for being in the replacements). I would also say its probably not Tommy's fault GnR hasnt cont to release music, Im sure if it were up to him they would be on their 4th album by now. That hasnt happened though. So the induction was based on old guns music catalog. I honestly do not understand what is hard to get about that?

[Ali]

No, it's an argument for their inclusion, at least Tommy Stinson. One could very easily point out the legitimacy of including Tommy Stinson when saying, "Hey, if you're including Josh Klinghoffer, why not include Tommy Stinson?"

Ali

No it's much more logical to say that Tommy Stinson has contributed nothing to the major success of Guns n' Roses and he was rightly not inducted as a result therefore Josh Klinghoffer shouldn't be inducted either.

But, Josh Klinghoffer WAS inducted. So, if you're in the GN'R camp and you see that information as it's made public, you have every right to ask the question, "Why not include Tommy then"?

Ali

Several reasons: 1) No one else being inducted under the RHCP banner objected to Klinghoffer being included; 2) the HOF considered I'm With You, the Chilies latest album, as part of their canon; 3) the HOF screwed up (Klinghoffer is now the youngest person to be included in the HOF, surpassing Stevie Wonder). The HOF has made other mistakes. But as Degenerate has noted, accidents should not make precedents. The HOF does not operate on hard and fast rules. There's lots to disparage the selection process and the HOF in general, but that doesn't necessitate calling into question the HOF's entire existence.

Life isn't fair, deal with it.

I'm sorry, I can't help but notice the irony in the same poster who has criticized Axl's decision to not attend the induction ceremony because it did not allow the fans to celebrate the legacy of GN'R, saying "life isn't fair, deal with it" . No offense, but if you're going to dole out advice, you should be able to take your own.

This wasn't an "accident". This was a deliberate decision and subsequent action by the HOF. Accidents shouldn't make precedent, but deliberate actions do. And, precedents form the basis for legitimate arguments for a decision to be made.

Ali