Keep on thinking "Chinese Democracy" was a flop

[HisRoyalSweetness]

best buy was the best thing that could have happened to axl. they bought way more copies of that turd album than anyone in the general public would have. azoff deserves axl's unending gratitude for mitigating an even greater disaster.

Disaster? Tell us more.

14 years

14 million dollars

0 hits

1 great big pop culture punchline that will endure for generations

[Russel Nash]

best buy was the best thing that could have happened to axl. they bought way more copies of that turd album than anyone in the general public would have. azoff deserves axl's unending gratitude for mitigating an even greater disaster.

Disaster? Tell us more.

14 years

14 million dollars

0 hits

1 great big pop culture punchline that will endure for generations

14 years of waiting. Art is not measurable.

14 million dollars. In the industry and in the capitalist world we living is nothing, it don't change the economy of anything. An surely not my economy, since i didn't put a cent on the production of CD, i assume you either.

0 hits. you mean radio hits? So, you need some organism like MTV to tell you what a hit is? If a song don't win a Grammy is not worth listening?

1 record, you either enjoy it or not. I really enjoy Queen II and never was on the radio.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Russel Nash

[HisRoyalSweetness]

on one hand, you argue that commercial popularity means nothing. then you go out of your way to try and convince yourself cd was commercially popular. who cares? like what you like, and have fun with it. but stop trying to convince everyone else that the sky is green and the grass is blue. ultimately, it doesn't matter.

[dalsh327]

Also, pro tip: "Sorry" isn't about Slash. it's about the industry.

It's about a lot of people, Slash included.

Singing that song night after night prob. reinforces how he feels about Slash.

[Russel Nash]

on one hand, you argue that commercial popularity means nothing. then you go out of your way to try and convince yourself cd was commercially popular. who cares? like what you like, and have fun with it. but stop trying to convince everyone else that the sky is green and the grass is blue. ultimately, it doesn't matter.

Exactly, i was talking about water and oil.

[volcano62]

CD is one of the greatest albums ever made.

[maynard]

cd is an album filled with simple songs, chords progressions and weak lyrics (TIL). axl tried to disguise it with electronic effects and guitar shredding but failed. hopefully the next album (lol) will be really experimental so we can see gnr's "evolution".

[HisRoyalSweetness]

i'll pass on experimental. i never saw axl as a great, visionary artist. just a cool, kinda redneck dude with an amazing voice and a great stage presence. i want visionary, experimental art from axl about as much as i want experimental cooking at a bbq restaurant. just never was a part of axl's appeal to me. if anything, it was the opposite. the more lofty his artistic ambitions became, the sillier it all looked to me. in all his years, i've never heard anything from axl that i found intellectually stimulating. and i'm fine with that. ingmar bergman, conversely, never makes me want to pound cheap beer and yell at the top of my lungs like axl does. but that's just my taste. i like visionary, experimental art, but i just wouldn't go to axl rose for it.

Edited December 7, 2012 by HisRoyalSweetness

[maynard]

yeah, i said hopefully for his asskissers so they can praise his "vision" for the right reason. CD is pop/rock album with effects.

[Ragnar]

i'll pass on experimental. i never saw axl as a great, visionary artist. just a cool, kinda redneck dude with an amazing voice and a great stage presence. i want visionary, experimental art from axl about as much as i want experimental cooking at a bbq restaurant. just never was a part of axl's appeal to me. if anything, it was the opposite. the more lofty his artistic ambitions became, the sillier it all looked to me. but that's just my taste. if i want visionary, experimental art, i'd look outside of the narrow confines of rock n' roll.

Thank god it`s only your taste

[Dan H.]

CD is one of the greatest albums ever made.

No dude.

Yeah. Chinese Democracy was a commercial flop. It sold a decent amount of copies, but considering the time, money, and hype, it should have sold twice what it did.

That being said, I don't think the music itself was a factor in why it sold poorly. GNR is irrelevant, and there was almost no promotion of the album. Which is fine, it's an average album, and it had average sales.

Some people here act like its the worst thing ever created or the best thing ever created. It has some decent moments, and some awful moments. It's just a pretty average release.

[Nick83]

best buy was the best thing that could have happened to axl. they bought way more copies of that turd album than anyone in the general public would have. azoff deserves axl's unending gratitude for mitigating an even greater disaster.

streaming on myspace would have been a brilliant idea if the music had been good. there were a record number of listens. but that sure as hell didn't translate into buys. or even pr. it just served to convince everyone what they'd probably assumed anyways... it sucked.

What the fuck are you talking about? First off, the masses are told what to do by the media. if the media doesn't tell them what to do, or at least inform them about what is available, people won't know, and therefore won't take action. This is the case for 90% of people out there.

The Best Buy deal was flat out terrible because most people do not shop at Best Buy regularly. They go there to buy a washing machine or a computer. And most people are not within comfortable regular shopping distance to a Best Buy. Most of those on the fence potential buyers who might have picked up a copy of CD never had a chance. I know in my experience, I have had many albums which I had a casual interest in, that I sought out to buy, and then couldn't find at stores, and I just forgot about it and moved on to the next thing. This happens to most people. They aren't going to go on a Holy Grail search for an album unless they are super interested.

And as far as the myspace stream goes, stop bullshitting yourself. No one buys music anymore. Previewing an album for the modern ADHD public won't do shit to help sales. People need more than a few listens to enjoy an album that isn't complete easily listening pop. Most people who previewed the album either compared it to old Guns and the difference was too much, or didn't have the attention span to listen to the whole thing etc. I know with me, I listen to album samples etc, and if it doesn't catch me, I move on to the next thing. Even though, I know better, because most albums require a few listens in order to let you know that it's going to be something that you like.

[Facekicker]

The lack of promotion thing is also another fanboy concocted myth designed to excuse the albums failings.

CD was the most talked about and anticipated album in decades, possibly ever.

If you didn't know it had finally been released then you were either off-planet or in a coma.

[Nick83]

The lack of promotion thing is also another fanboy concocted myth designed to excuse the albums failings.

CD was the most talked about and anticipated album in decades, possibly ever.

If you didn't know it had finally been released then you were either off-planet or in a coma.

Maybe in your closed in world it was the most anticipated album ever, but for the public, it wasn't. Most of the public had no idea it was coming out, and only the super interested people knew and actually went out to buy it.

Most people I knew, who were even rock and GNR fans, still had no idea the album was coming out. Most of them didn't even know that there was a new album being worked on.

Unless you are a person who reads rock or music magazines, or reads certain niche music sites, you wouldn't know an album was being worked on or coming out. Give me a break

[Dan H.]

The lack of promotion thing is also another fanboy concocted myth designed to excuse the albums failings.

CD was the most talked about and anticipated album in decades, possibly ever.

If you didn't know it had finally been released then you were either off-planet or in a coma.

In reality, what you're saying really isn't true.

After it failed to be released in 2000, most people stopped thinking about or anticipating it.

Sure, if you asked five people what they thought of when they heard the words Chinese Democracy, three or four out of five would say Guns N' Roses, simply because people were 'aware' of the album, not neccisarily anticipating it or closely following its release.

In fact, most people I know did not know that the album was released until a month or so later when rock radio slowly began picking up 'Better'. And even then, it was localized awareness to those who listened to rock radio, which is significantly less of a population than those who listen to mainstream radio.

I definitely think lack of promotion contributed to weak sales. There was less anticipation and hype than you seem to think there was.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

great songwriting trumps shitty promotion.

[Chinaski]

i like visionary, experimental art, but i just wouldn't go to axl rose for it.

I think this is a bit of the problem Axl has had since the old band disintegrated. Axl kind of outgrew what he was maybe best at and what the public would go to him for.

Axl can front a rock n roll band like nobody else I've ever seen. Harry Partch he isn't.

I met a hardcore GNR fan the other day who can play all the old songs on guitar and knows loads of stuff about them. Was chatting to him about the Rose and Cobain feud etc and nonsense like that. He had no idea Chinese Democracy existed. It occupies this very weird space in society. People know it as a reference point but not as an actual album.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Chinaski

[HisRoyalSweetness]

i don't think axl's intellectual abilities can keep pace with his artistic ambitions.

if bon jovi decided he wanted to become an opera star, i'd think he was overreaching in the same way.

[BBA]

I think good songs would have helped the album more than good promotion.

[Facekicker]

http://theworstalbum...ocracy-released

This review pretty much sums up the view of the album outside of Fanforum nerdland.

"Chinese Democracy is an ambitious, widescreen album, but that fact only gives it an even higher perch to fall from. It’s big, bloated and absurd, and it truly, embarrassingly feels like an album that took over ten years and thirteen million dollars to create.

Rose retains many of his signature vocal tics and tries to sound like his familiar self, but the years have clearly not been kind and his voice is haggard, hoarse and grating. He barks and squeals in a generally cringe-inducing manner on “Better”, occasionally unleashing a scratchy, tinny screech. He croons gruffly on “Sorry”, and briefly, inexplicably tries on a phoney accent. Even putting aside the unpleasant ways in which Rose’s voice has changed over the years, it’s amazing that an album that took so much time and effort could produce such lackluster vocal performances. In truth, it’s only when Axl is trying feebly to impersonate himself that his voice is even remotely bearable.

A lot of Chinese Democracy is devoted to recapturing past glory. Though Slash and his original bandmates were sloughed off during the recording process, Rose fills the album with pale imitations of the squiggling guitar riffs, soaring solos and melodramatic strings that once defined the band. It’s a tired, entirely irrelevant style and it simply draws even more attention to how far removed the band is from it’s heyday.

Axl’s attempts at updating the band’s sound only worsen things. There are constant remnants of experiments that must have felt relevant at some point during the decade long recording process, touches of trip-hop, 90s electronica, eastern music and other hilariously dated signifiers. Tracks like “Madagascar” sound like someone grafted a piss poor GnR cover band over the kind of generically hip “world music” you hear in hotel lobbies.

The album is littered with half-assed political sentiments which feel as out of touch as the music. The title track is–as Rose has almost admitted himself–an ultimately shallow and confused expression of the well observed and earth shaking idea that the Chinese government isn’t particularly nice. Most ofChinese Democracy’s songs concern Axl Rose’s own bitter feelings and loneliness. He seems very much aware of the mess he’s made of his life and career, but more concerned with his own hurt feelings than those of all the people he’d left behind since his misguided oddyssey began.

It’s gotta be tough to be a Guns N’ Roses fan. I can sympathize somewhat as a fan of The Avalanches, but Chinese Democracy’s torturously protracted gestation and disappointing release feel uniquely insulting, as if Axl Rose decided in 1993 that he hated his fans and would spend the next decade-and-a-half making them miserable. Of course, I imagine that in reality the only person who could be more miserable over the whole thing than the fans is Axl himself. He probably isn’t though, as he seems like a remarkably self-absorbed person.

However Axl feels, it’s clear that the band he founded will never be on top of the world again, and the story of Chinese Democracy has already become one of rock’s most infamous, absurd and embarrassing. Frankly, I’m shocked he hasn’t been sued by his record label, considering the album’s pointlessly exorbitant budget and underwhelming sales. Guns N’ Roses has continued to tour and continued to stir controversy, and Axl has supposedly been working on new songs. Who knows, maybe we’ll get to hear them before the end of the decade."

Edited December 7, 2012 by TheDiceMan

[Ragnar]

This "review" is such a load of horseshit this moron talks about everything except music who gives a shit how many years it took to make Chinese even third grader would write much better review then this delusional, bitter and patheitc gibberish bitter ex fans stop projecting your idiotic opinions as umniversally accepted truth

[Apollo]

The lack of promotion thing is also another fanboy concocted myth designed to excuse the albums failings.

CD was the most talked about and anticipated album in decades, possibly ever.

If you didn't know it had finally been released then you were either off-planet or in a coma.

This.

There were tv commercials.

There were magazine ads.

One song released in a Leo Decaprio movie.

One song released on a popular video game.

Album was previewed on MySpace.

Three singles were released.

Along with being the most anticipated release of all time.

To say this album had no publicity is ludicrous. What more do people want? Record execs to go door to door? This album got more promotion than 99% of albums do.

Commercially the album was a flop. The most expensive album ever made produced no real hits and sold maybe 3.5 million copies. A 14 million dollar album selling less than 4 million copies is not a success. Saying it was a hit does not make you a bigger or true GnR fan.

The quality of the music, however, has a subjective addition to it. For me personally, CD is the best rock album of the 00s. I still listen almost every day.

Personally for me, I love the album and couldn't be happier about it.

But commercially the album tanked.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Groghan

[Facekicker]

Groghan has the honesty to admit the truth as a fan of the album. Fair play.

[Nosaj Thing]

Ok I will. Thanks.

[Ragnar]

The lack of promotion thing is also another fanboy concocted myth designed to excuse the albums failings.

CD was the most talked about and anticipated album in decades, possibly ever.

If you didn't know it had finally been released then you were either off-planet or in a coma.

This.

There were tv commercials.

There were magazine ads.

One song released in a Leo Decaprio movie.

One song released on a popular video game.

Album was previewed on MySpace.

Three singles were released.

Along with being the most anticipated release of all time.

To say this album had no publicity is ludicrous. What more do people want? Record execs to go door to door? This album got more promotion than 99% of albums do.

Commercially the album was a flop. The most expensive album ever made produced no real hits and sold maybe 3.5 million copies. A 14 million dollar album selling less than 4 million copies is not a success. Saying it was a hit does not make you a bigger or true GnR fan.

The quality of the music, however, has a subjective addition to it. For me personally, CD is the best rock album of the 00s. I still listen almost every day.

Personally for me, I love the album and couldn't be happier about it.

But commercially the album tanked.

All of this of course compared to AFD or UYIs CD was a flop it undersold expectation and frankly hype was set ridiculously high no album would ever lve up to it but considering this time and age of illegal piracy, download and all these kind of crap it`s still a moderate success neither Death Magnetic nor Black Ice sold 10 20 or 30 million units hopefully if this lineup ever manages to release new album it`ll have more radio friendly and commercial rockers

Edited December 7, 2012 by Son of a Guns