Keep on thinking "Chinese Democracy" was a flop

[Kill Devil Hill]

For clarification, I looked at rock albums from 2008-2012, and those are the only ones that have outsold CD that were released in that time frame. Sadly, only one of those albums came out after 2008 (Green Day's 21st Century Breakdown). No rock album since Green Day's has outsold CD.

It's easy to resume this: Chinese Democracy flopped. End of story.

Maybe you should hop along out of here, you obviously don't know a masterpiece when you here one.

Being a "masterpiece" is irrelevant to "flopping." My favorite album of all-time probably sold 1/100th of what CD sold, being extremely generous.

[Damn_Smooth]

we're saying CD sold 3 mil worldwide?

These are all well established bands and CD competes pretty well.

Kings of Leon and ACDC set a bench mark. Axl may tour til CD hits 8 mil.

But someone was saying that Bieber, Lady Gaga, Adele sell 30 mil.

Not going to waste time with the other 2, but Beiber has 15 million sales worldwide between every album he's released. None of them came close to 30,000,000.

[Kill Devil Hill]

But someone was saying that Bieber, Lady Gaga, Adele sell 30 mil.

Justin Bieber - Believe 1 million US (worldwide figures aren't available)

Lady Gaga - Born This Way 6 million worldwide

Adele - 21 25 million worldwide

Adele is an anomaly. I believe her album is the first to go diamond in the US since Usher's Confessions in 2004.

Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber are also anomalies in the sense that pop isn't much of a seller nowadays. Lady Gaga wouldn't've even debuted with 1 million copies with Born This Way had Amazon not sold 400k copies for $.99.

That's assuming you're talking about most recent albums. If you're talking about overall, GN'R's sold 100 million records worldwide.

[Nosaj Thing]

It's easy to resume this: Chinese Democracy flopped. End of story.

Maybe you should hop along out of here, you obviously don't know a masterpiece when you here one.

Being a "masterpiece" is irrelevant to "flopping." My favorite album of all-time probably sold 1/100th of what CD sold, being extremely generous.

Yes, what she said. Let's remember that opinion =/= fact. Chinese Democracy is a masterpiece to some, not to all.

[Redhead74]

Chinese Democracy WAS a flop considering GNR was the biggest thing in the universe in 1991/1992. Only hardcore fans appreciate it. A portion of those like, or love it. They have only a fraction of the fans they had 20 years ago. Why? Because they have released only one album since 1993, and only one original album since 1991. Everyone's forgotten and moved on. I wished it wasn't the case, but it is and I'm not going to grieve over it. You shouldn't either.

[Redhead74]

It's easy to resume this: Chinese Democracy flopped. End of story.

Maybe you should hop along out of here, you obviously don't know a masterpiece when you here one.

A popular success is completely different from a masterpiece. If you listen to any pop radio station they play music that is mostly crap but is popularly successful. Just because a lot of people buy something doesn't make it great, or heaven help us, a masterpiece.

[Dazey]

It's easy to resume this: Chinese Democracy flopped. End of story.

Maybe you should hop along out of here, you obviously don't know a masterpiece when you here one.

Someone was saying that Bieber, Lady Gaga, Adele sell 30 mil.

Not going to waste time with the other 2, but Beiber has 15 million sales worldwide between every album he's released. None of them came close to 30,000,000.

Adele's latest record has passed the 25 million mark as of last month including 10 million in the US so I wouldn't say that.

http://www.digitalspy.com/music/news/a442041/adeles-21-sells-25-million-copies-worldwide.html

[Nosaj Thing]

Now that you guys are pointing that out I wonder if rock music will be dead in 30 years. The fact that shitty artists sell 30 million albums is just... atrocious to say the least.

Honestly, some of the pop acts are more "rock n' roll" (in terms of attitude) than the rock bands that are played on the radio, so I don't blame people.

In terms of albums, the only genre selling well is country. And the females in that genre are pretty much tanking except Carrie Underwood (Miranda Lambert is second place, I'd say; Taylor Swift's album is pop, so I'll not count it).

This brings up a new question: are mainstream albums getting worse or are audiences simply not supporting their respective formats anymore?

And with "rock n' roll attitude" you mean...? 'Cause I don't see anything remotely close to Rn'R in Bieber, Gaga or Adele. But yeah, I agree with the rest of your post. Really sad.

[Redhead74]

It's easy to resume this: Chinese Democracy flopped. End of story.

Maybe you should hop along out of here, you obviously don't know a masterpiece when you here one.

*hear

[Damn_Smooth]

It's easy to resume this: Chinese Democracy flopped. End of story.

Maybe you should hop along out of here, you obviously don't know a masterpiece when you here one.

Someone was saying that Bieber, Lady Gaga, Adele sell 30 mil.

Not going to waste time with the other 2, but Beiber has 15 million sales worldwide between every album he's released. None of them came close to 30,000,000.

Adele's latest record has passed the 25 million mark as of last month including 10 million in the US so I wouldn't say that.

http://www.digitalspy.com/music/news/a442041/adeles-21-sells-25-million-copies-worldwide.html

I don't even know what an Adele is, but I stand corrected.

[Dazey]

I don't even know what an Adele is, but I stand corrected.

It's a great big shreiking fat thing that warbles on interminably about some drivel or other for old women and housewives to listen to.

[Damn_Smooth]

It's a great big shreiking fat thing that warbles on interminably about some drivel or other for old women and housewives to listen to.

Glad I haven't had the misfortune of hearing it then.

[ratrace]

Axel is more relevant now, than he was before CD. It's better than any other album out there by a landslide or else Axel wouldn't have made it.

When he gets back in the studio his gonna release new songs and show those haters why his the best ever with or without that epic biker moustache!

[Nosaj Thing]

Who are you talkin' to and who is Axel? I don't know him, never been a fan of him.

[Redhead74]

Axel is more relevant now, than he was before CD. It's better than any other album out there by a landslide or else Axel wouldn't have made it.

When he gets back in the studio his gonna release new songs and show those haters why his the best ever with or without that epic biker moustache!

*Axl

[ratrace]

Axel took GNR and made it relevant with CD, now that's a hard fact i bet you couldn't argue with.

[Redhead74]

Axel took GNR and made it relevant with CD, now that's a hard fact i bet you couldn't argue with.

*Axl

[ratrace]

What do you get when a naked blonde stands on her hands?

A Brunette with bad breath

[Nosaj Thing]

Axel took GNR and made it relevant with CD, now that's a hard fact i bet you couldn't argue with.

There's so much stupidity in this sentence I don't even know where to begin. :rofl-lol:

Edited December 10, 2012 by pi2loc

[Gibbo]

If only they released The seeker as a bonus track it would iv put the sales through the roof

Edited December 10, 2012 by Gibbo 27

[Nosaj Thing]

If only they released The seeker as a bonus track it would iv put the sales through the roof

[Gibbo]

lol no

[ratrace]

lol

[wasted]

But someone was saying that Bieber, Lady Gaga, Adele sell 30 mil.

Justin Bieber - Believe 1 million US (worldwide figures aren't available)

Lady Gaga - Born This Way 6 million worldwide

Adele - 21 25 million worldwide

Adele is an anomaly. I believe her album is the first to go diamond in the US since Usher's Confessions in 2004.

Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber are also anomalies in the sense that pop isn't much of a seller nowadays. Lady Gaga wouldn't've even debuted with 1 million copies with Born This Way had Amazon not sold 400k copies for $.99.

That's assuming you're talking about most recent albums. If you're talking about overall, GN'R's sold 100 million records worldwide.

So really its only Adele that isnt a flop.

Kings of Leon outsold Lady Gaga.

It seems like pop is more of an illusion of success. They are celebrities and that pushes them up.

ACDC seem to have a fanbase that still buys cds. The rest seem to be celebrities that tour.

Its ard to gauge popularity by record sales. Even Gaga at 99 cents is just a gimmick to sell the tour.

In this climate its pretty hard to know what the CD sales figures mean. Possibly that GNR lost the more loyal metal army who go out and buy the cds. Who want to see the line up the same.

Or that the system really only supports the middle of the road. You have to play the game. You have to deliver what the audience want. And they just want what it says on the can. Music is more of a lifestyle choice now.

Edited December 10, 2012 by wasted

[SoulMonster]

You seem to argue that selling 3 million records is somehow normal. VERY FEW BANDS sell 3 millions records . But again, and I am repeating myself ad nauseum, whether CD was a flop or not, whether ANYTHING is a flop or not, depends on whether it met expectations. If we are to deem CD a flop we must be able to argue that it was expected to sell more than it did. No one in this thread is able to do that.

If it helps you out, I consider most of the recently released rock albums flops. Rock is a flopping genre. Just like R&B is a flopping genre. So it all comes down to which context you look at it in.

I suppose you could say CD was a flop GN'R album and a flop all-genre album, but it was a successful rock album.

Again, and I am repeating myself a lot now, a flop can only be determined in the context of its expectations, and expectations should be realistic, ideally. We can't determine whether something is a flop by only looking on how it performed, that's only half the picture, we need to know what the expectations were.

And no one expected CD to perform as well as UYI. Not only had the market changed and not in favour of GN'R, GN'R had changed, too! GN'R was FAR LESS popular in 2008 than in the early 90s. If you (and I am not talking about you, KDH) expected CD to sell similarly to UYI, then that is NOT a realistic expectation. I would really like to know what market people expected of a GN'R record in 2008, post-Slash, post-rock, post-everything. I am sure it wasn't to sell 10s of millions. I wouldn't be surprised if the global expectation was far less than 10 millions. I know it didn't perform as well in US at the time of launch, something widely blamed on Best Buy, but I am thinking on the long-term, global success. According to Axl he expects it to sell for a long time and the extensive touring is a way of making sure that the record sells for a long time.

I consider the whole concept of "flopping" to be irrelevant to everyone expect those who have stakes in the revenues. It is a fiscal term. It has nothing to do with quality ut whether it oversold or undersold. It has everything to do with projections, expectations and budgets. For fans all that matters is whether you like the music or not.