Interesting tidbit on Geffen Records

[iftheworld]

So I just got done watching The HBO documentary on The Eagles and didn't realise Don Henley signed with Geffen in the 90's fort a short period. What I found interesting is what Don Henley described Geffen as. He went on calling Geffen Records "Knickle & Dime Records" stating Geffen was very unfair and constantly disputing finances with not only himself, but other artists aswell. He also went on to state that "Peter would tell you how much he cares for you and wants to help in every way possible, but then never delivers and I just felt like I had no support." (Not exact words but 95% accurate) Henley told Peter Geffen "I quit. I'm not making music for you anymore".

My question is do you think Axl wasn't receiving support after 93 which caused such a delay?

Edited February 18, 2013 by iftheworld

[cheesecake]

Axl's problem is he doesn't talk about anything and lets people speculate. That is his 'sin' I would say. If he could just come out and let everyone know what the heck is going on, we won't keep asking the same sets of questions pertaining to records being delayed.

I see many threads of the same topic sprouting on this forum this year, some are just worded a bit differently but the gist is the same.

Edited February 18, 2013 by cheesecake

[magisme]

Occam's razor

[Roush]

Fuck you.

This band's too cool for simplistic, deductive reasoning.

[saber_]

Guns n Roses is mysterious. Take it or leave it.

[Roush]

Thanks, sabe.

It's nice to know I have back-up.

[dalsh327]

Axl's problems had to do with Geffen Records (David had gone on to run Dreamworks with Katzenberg and Spielberg) being taken over and downsized in 1999-2000 by Interscope and Jimmy Iovine became involved.

He had the support from Iovine - to a point. It wasn't so much Iovine himself (because he has to worry about hundreds of other artists) but the Interscope people that were turning things into a grind.

[ronartest2004]

Axl's problem is he doesn't talk about anything and lets people speculate. That is his 'sin' I would say. If he could just come out and let everyone knows what the heck is going on, we won't keep asking the same sets of questions pertaining to records being delayed.

I see many threads of the same topic sprouting on this forum this year, some are just worded a bit differently but the gist is the same.

You nailed it.

They (meaning axl, the band, the management) allow the speculation to go on by not addressing common issues. Most people aren't asking in depth questions...most of the shit people want to know are things like "any new music?" or "any plans on a us tour?".

But instead like everything else 94 and on we get cryptic responses and once speculation reaches an all time high and someone either in the band or the management comes on here and flips out on people, but then they act like we asked for it.

I have said it before and I will say it again, I have never seen another band act this way towards fans with cryptic things, this band and the people around them say so much to not say anything at all.

[alfierose]

I think the cryptic stuff and not announcing plans very far in advance is probably because Axl appears to only do things he feels like doing and those feelings can probably change at a moments notice. This would make management and band very nervous about announcing stuff that might not happen. I bet tons of stuff have been scheduled and then canned that we don't even know about.

[username]

Guns n Roses is mysterious. Take it or leave it.

You're such a gentle little cupcake...

Ontopic:

I doubt they do. On the other hand, they could still owe Geffen music and thus money. So that would result in some "mandatory support". In the end, I can't blame any company in the world for not wanting to have anything to do with Guns n' Roses. You never know what they'll come up with and when. Or if they'll come up with anything. You can call that mysterious or whatever. I call it a bad investment.

[AndreCC]

The label is dying for another GNR record so they can make another million dollar deal with Best Buy or any other chain store! Let's not be so naive and put the blame on the record company!

This is all to do with the label wanting to do one thing and Axl wanting to do another.

Axl is probably still pushing for a re-issue of Chinese Democracy with the artwork that he wants. You can get the message, even if you go to HTGTH, you'll notice Jarmo is always pushing for it. He's always suggesting that a re-issue would be the way to go, when people speak of a new album.

So i would guess that that's probably what's holding up a new album. Axl's wanting to have Chinese Democracy re-released! They even cleared the cds from the stores in the US i believe...

It would have been a good idea if this was done 2 or 3 years ago...At this point it makes no sense, unless they put in 1 or 2 new songs on a deluxe version of Chinese Democracy, or if they put a second disc either with the Las Vegas show or with a couple of remixes.

To me they should just fucking put all the songs from that era out.... The General, Thyme, Down by the Ocean, Atlas, Silkworms, Oh My God, Seven, Monstrosity, Soul Monster, Jackie Chan, Cuban Skies, Blood in the Water, Zodiac, Quick Song and whatever else and release the alternate versions of Chinese Democracy tracks all in one special package.

Those songs belong to the Chinese Democracy era... just close that era by keeping the fans entertained with all those songs in a Chinese Democracy special boxset and then do a completely fresh new record with the new band...

Like Bumblefoot said, a new record would sound totally different from Chinese Democracy... if they're gonna change the approach on the songs, they might as well just put an end to the Chinese Democracy era songs once and for all...

Edited February 18, 2013 by AndreCC

[Dazey]

My question is do you think Axl wasn't receiving support after 93 which caused such a delay?

I think GnR were probably receiving more support than any other artist on the label in 93. They were the biggest band in the world and Geffen's biggest earner so obviously they'd be doing whatever they could to keep them happy. Don Henley probably got less assistance because he wasn't considered as valuable an asset. At the end of the day though the record company can only do so much when there's no record or new music to promote. Make no mistake it was the band's failure to move on with new material that caused the delays and not the record company's interference.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Dazey

[AndreCC]

I feel this is what's gonna happen (It's just a guess) :

Axl will be negotiating with the Label on what to release next:

Label:

- Axl we want a new album!

Axl:

- We want to re-release Chinese Democracy in a proper way!

Label:

- We're eager to give it a go if you present a new album to be released some time after.

Axl:

- Axl doesn't like that kind of pressure, but would agree to that.

Label:

- We're releasing the re-issue of Chinese Democracy with 2 extra tracks: Oh My God and Silkworms and we want you to deliver us a new album by the end of the year. Axl delivers the album by Fall 2013. It gets evaluated, Axl does the proper touches on the album, Album is delivered again in March 2014. By March 2014 negotiations start with a big chain store for a multi million dollars deal. In between, Chinese Democracy is released again with the proper artwork and extra tracks in May or June 2013. Also a dvd with the show of Las Vegas is released probably in March 2013.

Then the new album gets a release date some time in November 2014, sold exclusively on the big chain store and somewhere in 2014 they release a new single. "Between July and October 2014"

This is my prediction, so don't take this so seriously. It's just my opinion!

Edited February 18, 2013 by AndreCC

[Dazey]

It doesn't have to do with Support. UMG Is dying for a new record! They can pull up a new deal with Best Buy just like that....and those kind of deals are worth millions of dollars... which as you can imagine they won't refuse any day...

I think the whole issue goes around the Record Company wanting something, and Axl wanting to do something different!

I don't think any record company is dying for a new GnR record right now. Best Buy got their fingers burned badly the last time and nobody's going to take on another exclusive cash up front deal only to be left with thousands of unsold copies in bargain bins across the country.

[dalsh327]

There's no reason to do a Chinese Democracy reissue except giving something to the fan club. More like an "end of tour" Deluxe Edition. It should just be a limited edition box set of the vinyl, CD, and a nice coffeetable book of all the album artwork and tour photos Kat's been taking, and have random copies signed by the band. They can throw in the concert DVDs, make the Live at the O2 an exclusive to the box, and include the 3D video. I'd top it off with a 6 song bonus of a finished "Oh My God", a couple of the remixes, and 3 or 4 live tracks, so there's "new GNR music" in the box.

Throw some tour memorabilia in from the Hard Rock, O2, and some reproduced posters and setlists.

Del and Axl can put together some sort of "making of" essay and have some of the photos from the recording session, and do an interview with the people who worked on the album for the coffeetable book.

That would be good for 25,000 copies at 75 dollars, and bring some of the copies out to sell at the shows, and Axl could do an appearance at Amoeba. They don't have to spend much promoting it. Maybe GNR do a short unannounced unplugged set and can also sell their own stuff that day. Bumble can bring the hot sauces. I think it would come close to selling out, but they'd know for sure by how many pre-orders they got. Axl can do a short book tour with Del & Kat, and make the call on whether or not he wants to answer questions. GNR could also agree to put a vinyl single out for Record Store Day tied into this appearance.

I think there will be another residency, probably Vegas again, but Atlantic "Paradise" City. They should do a Stone Pony show if they do appear, that area got hit pretty hard and the Pony made it through. Probably get Springsteen to show up to do an encore with GNR if they played there and he was off the road.

[Young_Gun]

My question is do you think Axl wasn't receiving support after 93 which caused such a delay?

I think GnR were probably receiving more support than any other artist on the label in 93. They were the biggest band in the world and Geffen's biggest earner so obviously they'd be doing whatever they could to keep them happy. Don Henley probably got less assistance because he wasn't considered as valuable an asset. At the end of the day though the record company can only do so much when there's no record or new music to promote. Make no mistake it was the band's failure to move on with new material that caused the delays and not the record company's interference.

BOOM! This.

You guys think Geffen were responsible for delaying the album 15 years? I think maybe they made certain things difficult but that was only when Axl had basically held the carrot in front of the horse for a good 10 years.

[classicrawker]

The two part Eagles documentary was excellent......Irving Azoff was interviewed a number of times and came off as someone who looks out for his clients..even the Eagles complimented him.......Geffen came across as just another label scumbag who takes advantage of the bands he signs.....highly recommend the documentary...

[Dazey]

My question is do you think Axl wasn't receiving support after 93 which caused such a delay?

I think GnR were probably receiving more support than any other artist on the label in 93. They were the biggest band in the world and Geffen's biggest earner so obviously they'd be doing whatever they could to keep them happy. Don Henley probably got less assistance because he wasn't considered as valuable an asset. At the end of the day though the record company can only do so much when there's no record or new music to promote. Make no mistake it was the band's failure to move on with new material that caused the delays and not the record company's interference.

BOOM! This.

You guys think Geffen were responsible for delaying the album 15 years? I think maybe they made certain things difficult but that was only when Axl had basically held the carrot in front of the horse for a good 10 years.

Also how can any label be accused of not being supportive when it allows one of its artists to run up a $14 million tab before cutting off funding? Any other band would have been canned years before and probably sued for the outstanding balance.

[wasted]

They didnt seem to get given 7 mil for a video. A lot of bands seemed to cut down on spending and promo around that gime Radio put albums gor free. CD just had this price tag it must have caused many problems. with this thing it was never one problem. You had lawsuots over the name. Reunion hopes. And almost as soon as it was VMA launch pad it crashed. Bucket quit. Merck got fired. The BB really salvaged this plane but we need the black box recorder to know how itwent down.

I just think if they did a trilogy it would sweep all this stuff aside. Sales, perveptions, success will mean nothing if 3 records came out.

[saber_]

Guns n Roses is mysterious. Take it or leave it.

You're such a gentle little cupcake...

Ontopic:

I doubt they do. On the other hand, they could still owe Geffen music and thus money. So that would result in some "mandatory support". In the end, I can't blame any company in the world for not wanting to have anything to do with Guns n' Roses. You never know what they'll come up with and when. Or if they'll come up with anything. You can call that mysterious or whatever. I call it a bad investment.

It's not trolling, you drama queen... it was a pretty innocuous statement. lol. Here's the deal: Axl is secretive. And even when he does talk, he speaks in riddles sometimes. We don't know shit about what's going on. Thus, GnR is mysterious.

[dalsh327]

The first part of the Eagles was great, the second part kind of sped through things. To fit the first part into a 2 hour movie was probably hard, I'm sure it was 4-5 hours when they did the rough cut. I don't know if I would've liked how it ended if there wasn't a part 2. But maybe GNR will do a documentary like this... part 1 of the AFD and UYI era, part 2 of the Chinese Democracy era to now.

The "History" DVD comes out in a couple of months, and the band said they're including more concert footage. They had legal problems with Felder that tied a lot of things up for years, so that's why there have never been anything from the 70s released. There's also a tour coming.

The David Geffen "American Masters" doc went more into career overview, goes into how GNR was a much needed shot in the arm after a half decade of hit and miss successes.

[Young_Gun]

My question is do you think Axl wasn't receiving support after 93 which caused such a delay?

I think GnR were probably receiving more support than any other artist on the label in 93. They were the biggest band in the world and Geffen's biggest earner so obviously they'd be doing whatever they could to keep them happy. Don Henley probably got less assistance because he wasn't considered as valuable an asset. At the end of the day though the record company can only do so much when there's no record or new music to promote. Make no mistake it was the band's failure to move on with new material that caused the delays and not the record company's interference.

BOOM! This.

You guys think Geffen were responsible for delaying the album 15 years? I think maybe they made certain things difficult but that was only when Axl had basically held the carrot in front of the horse for a good 10 years.

Also how can any label be accused of not being supportive when it allows one of its artists to run up a $14 million tab before cutting off funding? Any other band would have been canned years before and probably sued for the outstanding balance.

Indeed. Most bands only get a small fraction of that figure to record an album!

[wasted]

Guns made the rec comp 100s of millions of dollars though. 14 Mil is Favid Geffens make up expenses.

I dont think support would really help. Axl may have been refering to them rejecting his marketing plan. They had three videos rejected.

In the end they sold CD off to the highest bidder. Could they have sold more than 1. 6 mil in 2002 with 3 videos for Chi dem, Better, SOD?

[volcano62]

Axl's problem is he doesn't talk about anything and lets people speculate.

This is one of the biggest problems on his part.

[trqster]

Instead of wasting time with an hypothetical CD2 record that'll probably never see the day of light, Axl (and the old band members) should focus instead on making a new 'Greatest Hits' album and DVD that would still sell a lot more than any new music album from Axl's current band.