MSL discusses Guns n Roses

[Bobbo]

^^

Exactly how I feel, and more or less what I said in the beginning of this thread. Solid post from Bikka as well. I'm not ruling out that Slash and Duff could have been full of shit afterall, but it's all too shaky to really make any solid conclusions.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Bobbo

[GUNNER PT]

Nothing new ... all this GN'R drama started with a lie ...

No wonder why everything happened as it happened. It's always easier to criticize the consequences than finding the causes.

Lost time ...

[Mysteron]

Signatures are signatures. On plain paper, that is enough in the UK

It is great investigative journalism, let's see the story pushed out there to the wider media. Let them have their take, and MSL have another moment in the sun.

[GUNNER PT]

So you are saying that this document isn't legally binding and therefore undermines whatever bullshit argument MSL and others have been trying to put forward? Lol

Well that´s the thing. We don´t know. All we saw was a pharagraph of something. It could be a contract, it could a MOA ot it could be just toilette paper. We need to see the whole document to have a better idea

Contract, memorandum of agreement, letter, toilette paper ... who cares?! Their intentions are in writing and signed ... far a away from a backstage.

[Damn_Smooth]

So either this is the real contract, or this is proof that Slash and Duff were willing to sign the name away on not one, but two seperate occasions. I honestly can't dig up sympathy for them no matter how hard I try, either way.

[magisme]

Axl is an asshole and Slash and Duff are idiots, no matter how you slice it.

[bikka]

Well, they don't have any rights to the name so that one thing is clear: they definitely signed it away! Willing or not willing...

But the fact that this particular document (assuming it's legit) was signed between tour legs has nothing to do with whether the actual contract was signed backstage before some show or not.

[there is no dana only zool]

Signatures are signatures. On plain paper, that is enough in the UK

It is great investigative journalism, let's see the story pushed out there to the wider media. Let them have their take, and MSL have another moment in the sun.

Thanks for the kind words Mysteron. Means a lot coming from you. Appreciate it.

I bet Classic Rock would run a story on their website about it.

[ITG]

Signatures are signatures. On plain paper, that is enough in the UK

It is great investigative journalism, let's see the story pushed out there to the wider media. Let them have their take, and MSL have another moment in the sun.

Great investigative journalism? He posted docs probably publicly available from a courthouse in CA, saturated with an emblem of his persona. Let's not get carried away. MSL is someone ostentatious enough to make you want to forget about him.

[jmapelian]

Gotta laugh at the pissing match going on here and all the fuckers Going AHA!! see there proof that Slash and Duff are lying! No one mentions the tiny little detail about Axls suckerpunching the rest of GNR by quiting and then taking the name with him and then offering the original members their old jobs back as employees of GNR and not members of GNR. Sneaky and well played. No more need to withhold services and participation with your equals..no more having to browbeat them into playing your Stephanie Seymour ballads and no more having to dive in and find the monkey with the rest of the band.

My earlier posts prettymuch state the same thing - it doesntreally matter tome other thanit was a big dickhead move by the red head

[saber_]

Great investigative journalism? He posted docs probably publicly available from a courthouse in CA, saturated with an emblem of his persona. Let's not get carried away. MSL is someone ostentatious enough to make you want to forget about him.

Yes but he was the first fan to do it though. I mean... that's like some serious hardcore fan shit right there. That's not for beginners- understand what I'm sayin. And so if you're a gnr fan, it is great investigative journalism.

[ITG]

Not really. I posted a list of Axl Rose lawsuits and a timeline of the 2005 lawsuit. That was from the California courts. Anyone can do that. MSL in my opinion was just looking for an avenue to publicly post his moniker. It protracts his immortality in his mind or something.

[Ali]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear last time...

A "Memorandum of Agreement" is NOT a contract. I only lurk here normally but it kinda jumped at me when I saw this scan because I have just cancelled a MOA ...by sending a single email. In general, they are not legally binding. Has anyone had any other experience with partnership/consortium agreements and MOAs?

I'm not a lawyer so I can't be 100% sure but from my experience it is just a letter of intent signed by more than 1 party.

The thing is, if you want to get a deal from a publishing company / record company / funding agency for something that you're doing in collaboration (record/book/project, etc.) with other partners then when you apply for the deal (often even before the negotiations) you have to show that you're serious about collaborating with those people and that the whole thing has chances of fruition... Then again you don't want to sign an actual contract because what would be its status if you don't get the deal...? That's where various MOAs, letters of intent, Memorandums of Understanding come in. You sign this to show that you know precisely how you would collaborate if you get the deal. And these things vary from being really general ("yeah, we will work together...") to really specific, basically like a real contract - they specify how the money will be split, who will be distributing it, can new partners enter, what happens when somebody leaves the partnership, etc. But they are NOT (in majority of cases) legally binding. That is, a partner can leave even before the actual deal is decided or after it is decided or a partner can change their mind and say that this kind of partnership is not ok and unless it is renegotiated they quit. Etc, etc... Only after the deal is ready for which the partnership is actully intended, you sign the real contract (partnership / consortium agreement) - very often in the presence of the 3rd party (publishing company, funding agency, etc.).

The bottom point of this all is that the dates on this document are totally irrelevant. The real contract was signed either before (if this is a MOA for some kind of amendment to a deal, which by what I've read here seems most plausible) or later (if this is the first MOA for the new partnership, which is rather improbable). I guess it was for amendments in which case they probably just copied whatever clauses were in the previous/ongoing partnership agreement into a MOA - this way it is something everybody has already agreed on... Theoretically they could have tried to renegotiate the partnership at this point but if there was already a valid contract in effect and at least 1 party did not agree to the changes, they would be left where they were, with no chances for amendments to the other deal.

Of course, it would be easier to judge what it really is if the whole thing was posted...

I'm not a lawyer, but I know that, yes, MOAs are not necessarily legally enforceable. I understand what you're saying, but I think you're making a distinction without a difference. Even if there was a formal contract signed later, this document still shows agreement to the ownership of the band name issue on a date when the band wasn't on tour. So, even if there was a formal contract signed later, while on tour, the agreement on this issue was signed by both Slash and Duff while there was no tour going on. So, the way it has been portrayed, intentionally or not, that this was some type of blindsiding right before a show with this request, seems inaccurate.

Ali

[saber_]

Not really. I posted a list of Axl Rose lawsuits and a timeline of the 2005 lawsuit. That was from the California courts. Anyone can do that. MSL in my opinion was just looking for an avenue to publicly post his moniker. It protracts his immortality in his mind or something.

You posted a... "list"? Did you actually go to the court house? Or did you just compile various documents you found on the internet? Hitman actually went through the process and physically retrieved the documents from their source. Since the issue at hand is something that is often debated by hardcore fans, having actual documents pertaining to the issue does constitute great investigative journalism.

[dalsh327]

You can find the files online but you have to know what the file #'s are.

[ITG]

 

Not really. I posted a list of Axl Rose lawsuits and a timeline of the 2005 lawsuit. That was from the California courts. Anyone can do that. MSL in my opinion was just looking for an avenue to publicly post his moniker. It protracts his immortality in his mind or something.

You posted a... "list"? Did you actually go to the court house? Or did you just compile various documents you found on the internet? Hitman actually went through the process and physically retrieved the documents from their source. Since the issue at hand is something that is often debated by hardcore fans, having actual documents pertaining to the issue does constitute great investigative journalism.

Got a credit card and some free time? Knock yourself out:

https://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/OnlineServices/CivilImages/

There's probably a cheaper and easier way to do it now. I got the list a few years ago.

[snooze72]

It is great investigative journalism, let's see the story pushed out there to the wider media. Let them have their take, and MSL have another moment in the sun.

Thanks for the kind words Mysteron. Means a lot coming from you. Appreciate it.

It's great that MSL had the initiative to actually get the document (even if his interpretation of it is off), but the major media have had it for years and reported on it before. Pretty sure the Rolling Stone story quoted from it waay back, even before it was filed for the public in '04, maybe the NYT too. Going by faulty memory, I thought they also pointed out the discrepancies but didn't make a big deal out of it because the details didn't matter, the point was Axl was CONSTANTLY threatening to not preform, not tour, not record or whatever unless he got his way. He was the singer and co-writer in the band, he was virtually unmanageable and there wasn't a damn thing anybody could do about it. Other than negotiate compensation, anyway. I'd hazard a guess that GNR is at a stand still because he's been doing this with the label, and they just don't care any more, they'd rather kill the project.

[HubbaBubba]

It is great investigative journalism, let's see the story pushed out there to the wider media. Let them have their take, and MSL have another moment in the sun.

Thanks for the kind words Mysteron. Means a lot coming from you. Appreciate it.

It's great that MSL had the initiative to actually get the document (even if his interpretation of it is off), but the major media have had it for years and reported on it before. Pretty sure the Rolling Stone story quoted from it waay back, even before it was filed for the public in '04, maybe the NYT too. Going by faulty memory, I thought they also pointed out the discrepancies but didn't make a big deal out of it because the details didn't matter, the point was Axl was CONSTANTLY threatening to not preform, not tour, not record or whatever unless he got his way. He was the singer and co-writer in the band, he was virtually unmanageable and there wasn't a damn thing anybody could do about it. Other than negotiate compensation, anyway. I'd hazard a guess that GNR is at a stand still because he's been doing this with the label, and they just don't care any more, they'd rather kill the project.

Great post. I take absolutely no satisfaction in saying this rings true.

[Howard2k]

A memorandum of understanding (MoU) is describing a bilateral or multilateral agreement between two or more parties. It expresses a convergence of will between the parties, indicating an intended common line of action. It is often used in cases where parties either do not imply a legal commitment or in situations where the parties cannot create a legally enforceable agreement. It is a more formal alternative to a gentlemen's agreement.

Whether or not a document constitutes a binding contract depends only on the presence or absence of well-defined legal elements in the text proper of the document (the so-called "four corners"). The required elements are: offer, consideration, intention (consensus ad idem), and acceptance. The specifics can differ slightly depending on whether the contract is for goods (falls under the Uniform Commercial Code [uCC]) or services (falls under the common law of the state).

[wasted]

Axl generally gives answers. Like the USA Today interview probably still stands.

[HubbaBubba]

Axl generally gives answers. Like the USA Today interview probably still stands.

Was that the del one?

[ManetsBR]

That memorandum talk makes no sense. So the memorandum was signed after the actual contract? Ok...

[wasted]

No around the Vegas Residency he did one where he was saying slash, duff, seymour called him a loser. But he also said thwy all recorded and theyll see. He was happy with his bands creativity etc. So i think that was what he said. But we tend to forget and focus on other things.

[HubbaBubba]

Answers they were, but bits of that interview were ill-advised.

To anyone outside Axl's group, doing an interview in 2011 blaming writers block on what steph said in 1992 looked crazy. You'd struggle to find readers outside the hardcore who even remember her.

The slash and duff blaming was more legit I guess, but it looked all the more bitter because they've both clearly moved on.

[Apollo]

Without reading this entire mess, I'm going to go out on a limb and make a couple guesses at what has been said.

MSL is trying to drum up publicity for his website, and continues to be a spokesperson for Team Brazil. If anybody has questioned him or his motives, he has twisted around their posts to imply they are haters and they are unhappy in their real lives off of the forum.

Coma, Andre and one other guy, I can't remember his name off the top of my head, are really going overboard praising and defending MSL.

On the MSL board, many posters are talking about how bad mygnrforum is and are keeping track of everything that is being posted and then insulting this forum's posters.

Brainsaber is letting us know he takes a lot of delight and joy that Slash fans are irate, butt-hurt and angry about this topic. Slash fans will be discussing the matter civilly, the only people showing great emotion will be guys like Brainsaber. Who will be taking all this information very, very srsly. And saying things about people spending time on a forum of a band they don't like, ooops. Followed by saying how he laughs out loud at how angry Slash fans are.

Volcano and Wf*ckina (who both are actually pretty nice guys) will have several posts calling Slash and Duff junkies and loser drug addicts. Brainsaber will join those two in saying how stupid and dumb Slash and Duff are.

Ali will be defending Axl's every move.

Rita, dangerous curves and a couple others will be bashing any user who says anything negative about Axl or what he did. All in the hopes that Axl will send them a PM.

I bet I'm pretty close with my predictions.

As for the actual issue here?

I really don't care. And am confused as to why so many people on this forum are more worked up about it than the actual members of the band. Weird.

Axl is a prick, is hard to work for, and pulled a prick move with the contract.

Slash and Duff were stupid to give up the name so easily. Was it because they were strung out? Or because they were tired of dealing with Axl's bullsh*t, so they said "f*ck it"? Probably a combination of both.

It was how many years ago? Why are "fans" now arguing and fighting about it?

Who cares. None of us were there, none of us know the real story.

Everybody actually involved has moved on. Shouldn't the fans as well?