Does the label "own" CD II?

[Chris 55]

Good question. I don't know anything about the music biz, but pure logic, my logic at least, tells me that GnR can't release anything without the label's permission, since the band is under a contract.

Right...under contract until when? Another album? Certain amount of years?

yes, the label owns all the material since they paid for it to be recorded.

If the label is done with the band, can they just release another GH or a Live album and get this over and done with and let the band loose?

Remember back when Axl did the Classic Metal show (or whatever the hell it was called) for VH1 and he said they were "trying to figure things out with the label"? My GUESS is that all this touring is to see if there's still a market for the record companies investment to see if they'll be releasing more GNR music. I think it's why the label and others tried to get a reunion going. So they could not only recoup the time spent on the cd but also make some $ in the process. It IS called the "music business" for a reason.

[sailaway]

OFF TOPIC: I do. Me too. I try to read as much as I can. I love reading in the languages I've learned. In fact, I can't remember the last time I read a book in Spanish, my native language I've read most Stephen Kings books twice, even three times, in different languages EDIT: Dave Ellefson talks about the royalties and the music biz

Talking my language there tomb raider, Stephen King writes some wonderfully twisted and sick stories that embed themselves deep into the grey matter, like Clive Barker,Dean Koontz and a few others for the same reasons..some biographies are quite chilling as well, just read one about an everest mountain climber that was frozen alive, fun topic! Imo, anything that opens your mind is a great thing and useful to boot! I don't speak/read anything other than engrish (save for a handful of assorted and asundry profane words) so props to you!

On topic...

Helpful and absolutely essential to have a full and complete understanding/knowledge of precisely what is included in every single peice of paper that a mega label has you sign, sort of a Murphy's law adage ie: whatever can go wrong will, and at the worst possible moment. There are some real horror stories involving artists vs. Labels, and you don't have to look far to find a happy dozen incidents.

Every successful person mentions good timing as an important element of success, easy to look at some label horror stories and think " there but for the grace of god go I" :0

Joining one of the big 3 performing rights organizations is essential in collecting royalties. A songwriting contract is a complex matter,a long term contract is a uber complex matter,and an efficient music biz lawyer isn't a waste of money. But times they are a changing and cyber worldism has cracked open a number of brand new cans of worms,for better or worse.

The fact that the labels are plunging faster than drano serves to make them more bloodthirsty than previously,and the trend of "artist de jour" works in the favor of the labels, expendable and ultimately disposable artists are an added ingredient in the recipe of Label stew in recent years, at the expense of artists, and ultimately the listening public, very precarious situation.

Is it feasable/believable that UMG has a big hefty paw and a monkey wrench jamming the works? Absotively posolutely not hard to concieve nor believe. And ultimately, "you can't please everyone so you got to please yourself"

[Nosaj Thing]

That happened to Duff didn't it? I don't think he got his album back.

Good call. He wanted to buy it back and they wouldn't let him.

[amacfantasy]

Does anyone actually know about this record label stuff as it pertains to GNR though? As in concrete facts or at least rumors as to what exactly is really going on? Because that's all that matters. I still am very interested in hearing some inside details.

[GivenToFly]

None of us knows at this point.

What I think the likely explanation is: the songs are either fully recorded with the previous line-up and Axl wants to add extra input from the current band/make some changes or the songs are not fully recorded yet; either way more work needs to be done by the band in the studio; besides that mixing, mastering etc need to be done, followed by marketing, promotion etc; all this costs money and we all know that Chinese Democracy went over budget and Axl had to pay some money from his own pocket; I believe the label refuses to pay what is necessary to complete and release the new album so Axl is touring to raise the funds for it. Or for his retirement, who knows...

[DieselDaisy]

They were renegotiating the release of CD, right up until the last minute. Nobody knows if there was anything negotiated with concerning a follow-up album. We just, do not know. Axl is seemingly still signed with Interscope-Geffen as the DVD proves although he isn't on the record company website - at least I could not find him.

Edited June 22, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[TombRaider]

OFF TOPIC: I do. Me too. I try to read as much as I can. I love reading in the languages I've learned. In fact, I can't remember the last time I read a book in Spanish, my native language I've read most Stephen Kings books twice, even three times, in different languages EDIT: Dave Ellefson talks about the royalties and the music biz

Talking my language there tomb raider, Stephen King writes some wonderfully twisted and sick stories that embed themselves deep into the grey matter, like Clive Barker,Dean Koontz and a few others for the same reasons..some biographies are quite chilling as well, just read one about an everest mountain climber that was frozen alive, fun topic! Imo, anything that opens your mind is a great thing and useful to boot! I don't speak/read anything other than engrish (save for a handful of assorted and asundry profane words) so props to you!

[dalsh327]

All music artists should follow the lead of Steve Perry. He knows the deal with contracts!

Steve got out of music (the same way Bill Withers did) and the band went on without him, but I also look at how many years they'd been doing music as a band, how many years he'd been making a living as a singer, so when he moved on from Journey and got out of it, it seemed premature for his age and unfair to the fans, but he had his reasons not to do it. There's always more to the story than Behind the Music brings up.

I'm sure when Journey's inducted into the Rock Hall, the same reunion rumors are going to start up. I think we'll see Journey's name popping up in the next 5 years.

[mina1788]

Does anyone see the situation from this point of view;

What if the reason a new album hasn't been released has nothing to do with the record company? What if Axl doesn't want to release it with this current band? I find it hard to believe that an artist like Axl (from what I've read) can take them seriously. I mean, aren't most CD songs done by former members? The current lineup doesn't seem to be recording anything which has been confirmed in various interviews, and from what I know the other songs recorded during that period were also done by a variety of musicians not in the current band.

What if Axl doesn't want to record with these guys, doesn't want to release music with the current band, and is just sitting on it for some other reason?

Regardless of the interviews where BBF says how they hang out in bathrooms for 30 hours or chat for two days straight, I don't see or feel any connection between Axl and the rest of the band. Not on stage, not in pictures, no interviews together or videos, etc. I'd love to believe that the record label has nothing to do with it, and that he is simply hoarding them for worthier musicians in the future (Slash + company *cough *cough).

Just a thought.

Edited June 22, 2013 by mina1788

[Crash Diet]

A$hba$wag owns the past, the present and the future of Guns N' Roses.

Thanks for your very mature and informative input.

We need more members like you around here.

yes, i seriously think that we need more posters who aren't worship a clown, despite that the comment is really unnecesary in this thread

http://business.songstuff.com/article/recording_contract_basics/

A least give the guy credit for his article.

wow, nice find, buuuurn sailaway

Edited June 22, 2013 by Crash Diet

[Coma16]

Does anyone see the situation from this point of view;

What if the reason a new album hasn't been released has nothing to do with the record company? What if Axl doesn't want to release it with this current band? I find it hard to believe that an artist like Axl (from what I've read) can take them seriously. I mean, aren't most CD songs done by former members? The current lineup doesn't seem to be recording anything which has been confirmed in various interviews, and from what I know the other songs recorded during that period were also done by a variety of musicians not in the current band.

What if Axl doesn't want to record with these guys, doesn't want to release music with the current band, and is just sitting on it for some other reason?

Regardless of the interviews where BBF says how they hang out in bathrooms for 30 hours or chat for two days straight, I don't see or feel any connection between Axl and the rest of the band. Not on stage, not in pictures, no interviews together or videos, etc. I'd love to believe that the record label has nothing to do with it, and that he is simply hoarding them for worthier musicians in the future (Slash + company *cough *cough).

Just a thought.

7 of the current 8 members of Guns N Roses were on CD. DJ is the only member that wasn't on it. Edited June 22, 2013 by Coma16

[Dariablue]

This is actually a really interesting topic. Too bad we probably won't get any information to confirm one way or another.

After No Doubt's debut album did poorly the record company wasn't exactly clamoring for a new album, so they put out their second album on their own under their own label (produced themselves, recorded in a home studio, etc). So if Interscope doesn't care enough about another GNR album, I would think that Axl at least would have the option to go about it on his own. I could be totally off base though.

[GivenToFly]

I know of at least two cases where the label owned the rights to the songs and the artists themselves couldn't perform their own songs for years after leaving the label until a deal was made. I am talking about The Black Crowes and John Fogerty.

[EvH]

A$hba$wag owns the past, the present and the future of Guns N' Roses.

Thanks for your very mature and informative input.

We need more members like you around here.

yes, i seriously think that we need more posters who aren't worship a clown, despite that the comment is really unnecesary in this thread

http://business.songstuff.com/article/recording_contract_basics/

A least give the guy credit for his article.

wow, nice find, buuuurn sailaway

If you guys took my comment seriously, wow. I mean take a step back.

[rockerman]

As we all know the label didn't spend 14M on just the 14 tracks that were released on Chinese Democracy.

What about all the other tracks that were recorded? Does the label own them? Can they release them whenever they want? Do they have to? Can GNR release something independently if the label doesn't want to release them?

There is certainly a hold up somewhere.....is there anyone that knows the biz that can enlighten us?

Most contracts consider the music by the band as their intellectual property and some even hold that ANY music by any memeber is also their intllectual property as well. The shakedown is in ppromotion and distribution as well as concert rights...depends on what percentage is negotiated. Often a new band will sign a deal just to get going giving exclusive rights to the lable. if the lable gets behind the band they sign for two or three guaranteed records...if debut and sophmore albums flop..the band gets canned...The lable doesnt think in terms of artistic integrety they think in dollars and cents figures. Like any other investment, they figure in a return on investment.

in speculation: old GNR had a contract for another album but the company effectively disolved and a new corportation was formed by Axl...so who has the rights to the old catalogue..the album work last done by legacy GNR? depends on if the band paid to produce with an agreement from the lable to promote and distribute or if it was "they pay you play working for MCA" in essence working for the lable

CD as it is now feels like a contractual negotiation fulfillment.

Im thinking that the advances and the massive cost overruns forced the lable to take a stand...deliver it or face the consequences... then the lable picked and chose what they felt CD should be thus pissing Axl off royal and forcing him to NOT promote or get behind his own effort. Most of CD had been leaked in one form or another and i believe the stragagy was to recoup a loss on those songs by forcing this CD onto the market. IF the 30 or so songs that were recorded were "in the can" and the lable has them..im thinking there is a lawsuit behind the scene that prevents bot parties from revealing any new material until the projected entire revenue of CD...not just its cost but its anticipated income is achieved. Take into ACCOUNT..the percentages that each contracts takes away...the managers of each players, concert promotion(crew trravel food hotel entourage etc) Managment gets a huge take away number.. record production and artistic liscense etc. It could be that Axl has the masters and given the mediocre performance of the lable ,,he has chosen to lock up the big guns to give him more exclusive rights to them , how many hands can fit into a cookie jar line of thinking. However CD was financed ..jointly by Axl and lable.. all the lable...all Axl? who the songs are promoted and presented probably belongs to the lable and that means less take home pay for team GNR in the long run. It could be quality vs quantity issue. Could be the label doesnt want to back Axl any more CD may have gone trple platinum but that alone barely could cost contain JUST THE RECORDING COSTS..there were other costs associated with it as well.

[TheDemocracyRose]

GN'R should release their next record online. Make a video or two and some singles. That could make some profits...

[Nosaj Thing]

You're asking and/or expecting too much.

[dalsh327]

GN'R should release their next record online. Make a video or two and some singles. That could make some profits...

I think we'll get new music via a movie soundtrack, or a digital EP. GNR's never released new music as digital downloads, which means they have no idea how many people want to hear new music from them.

Maybe if/when the DVD comes out, they'll start bringing up new music, but they also have to be cautious.

I think Axl's not going to announce any release dates until the artwork's done, videos are made, and the album's been mastered, and just do it as one big announcement. I'm sure he's watching how other artists are announcing new albums, and what kind of promoting they're doing for it.

My feeling - 2-3 years. In about 2 years it's going to be 30 years since GNR were formed. I also think he's going to start being involved in the archives over the next decade, even though it's pretty limited, but a lot of bands are putting back catalog stuff out now, because in a few years, I doubt you'll see any music on shelves and would have to order them direct from Amazon.com or the band's site. Geffen/Interscope probably has more interest in the old stuff, but I'm sure there's different people working at Interscope since Axl had dealings with them. People come and go at record companies.

[volcano62]

If Universal doesn't want to release it Axl may have to buy his way out which could explain the touring.

You may be right

That happened to Duff didn't it? I don't think he got his album back.

Beautiful Disease has a few amazing tracks. It should have been released.

A$hba$wag owns the past, the present and the future of Guns N' Roses.

Thanks for your very mature and informative input.

We need more members like you around here.

Volcano it is posts like that that make want to have your babies

[The_Universal_Sigh]

Why does anyone think axl has been in the studio since 2008? There won't be a cd2 axl said that period was the worst in his life. Given how much money he has why would he do that?

[EvH]

I'm actually pretty sad that we probably won't hear the CD leftovers before Axl's death.