5 Years of Chinese Democracy

[Damn_Smooth]

Again with the issues reading, you sure you're doing OK. Yes, I am 100 percent certain that they are selling through their stock. If stores aren't restocking, which they aren't, it means that they are selling out of their stock. You're on you own with making up the numbers for that though, some of us don't pretend to know things that we don't.

[classicrawker]

Again with the issues reading, you sure you're doing OK. Yes, I am 100 percent certain that they are selling through their stock. If stores aren't restocking, which they aren't, it means that they are selling out of their stock. You're on you own with making up the numbers for that though, some of us don't pretend to know things that we don't.

So because the store you talked to are not restocking it means every store is selling through their stock? you still have not answered my question though............. even without knowing how many units they had to start does it seem logical to you that they would be selling 100, 000 of units of a cutout CD that Best Buy could not sell at $1.99? and I am not making claims of having without knowledge I am using simple logic here in the face of lack of facts to state an opinion that it is unlikley that U.S. salvage store sales are going to have much impact on the overall global sales of ChiDem............don't take things so personal mate I am not trying to bust you stones just trying to have some fun debating with you............

Edited December 21, 2013 by classicrawker

[t-p-d-a]

It's the best Album from the NewGN'R!

[Damn_Smooth]

Again with the issues reading, you sure you're doing OK. Yes, I am 100 percent certain that they are selling through their stock. If stores aren't restocking, which they aren't, it means that they are selling out of their stock. You're on you own with making up the numbers for that though, some of us don't pretend to know things that we don't.

So because the store you talked to are not restocking it means every store is selling through their stock? you still have not answered my question though............. even without knowing how many units they had to start does it seem logical to you that they would be selling 100, 000 of units of a cutout CD that Best Buy could not sell at $1.99? and I am not making claims of having without knowledge I am using simple logic here in the face of lack of facts to state an opinion that it is unlikley that U.S. salvage store sales are going to have much impact on the overall global sales of ChiDem............don't take things so personal mate I am not trying to bust you stones just trying to have some fun debating with you............

Yes, it is quite feasible that a store with far more locations and a wider customer base sells more than an electronics retail store.

I don't know if you've ever worked in retail, but if a store sells through its stock and another store has plenty more, they ship some from the store with stock to the store with none. It's a common retail practice that follows the laws of supply and demand.

[Chunder Monkey]

Axl told us in the chats that he was disingenuously encouraged by Slash to include My World on the final cut of UYI2 in order to publicly humiliate him.

That story is one of the more disturbing stories from Axl.

No offence to him but it just sounds so paranoid.

Slash would have to be some kind of evil genius to be clever enough to be the junky he was yet also subtly masterminding an evil scheme to make Axl lose face creatively with the hard rock public.

To me it's a lot more plausible that Axl became interested in electronic music and so produced "My World".

Meanwhile he played it to Slash - who naturally hated it because he wants all his bands to be guitar oriented classic rock - however Slash was diplomatic (i guess a 'lie') and said it was good - not because of some secret agenda - but because UYI was already 2 years late and because he knows Axl is sensitive and may have been offended at Slash shitting on what is clearly a personal project for him.

In short - the band probably didn't like it - but did they not like it enough to fuck up the whole UYI release over it? Or is it easier in an album full of varied pieces anyway to just let Axl put it on the end to keep him happy.

Seems much more plausible to me than some long-term conspiracy from guys with the drug intake of Slash/Duff etc in the 1990s.

5 years later and I still can't find anything to like about CitR. Outside of that one track, it's easily my favorite GN'R album.

Do you feel that way about the demo too?

I'm curious because to me the early version seemed more piano led and really showcased the melody, lyrics and structure of the songwriting more than the final version.

The final version was good in that it's more cohesive with the rest of the album. It sounds like the same "band" in that it's now got as many parts and as much production as the other tracks - while the demo sounded like a much more simple arrangement and line up.

[RussTCB]

Axl told us in the chats that he was disingenuously encouraged by Slash to include My World on the final cut of UYI2 in order to publicly humiliate him.

That story is one of the more disturbing stories from Axl.

No offence to him but it just sounds so paranoid.

Slash would have to be some kind of evil genius to be clever enough to be the junky he was yet also subtly masterminding an evil scheme to make Axl lose face creatively with the hard rock public.

To me it's a lot more plausible that Axl became interested in electronic music and so produced "My World".

Meanwhile he played it to Slash - who naturally hated it because he wants all his bands to be guitar oriented classic rock - however Slash was diplomatic (i guess a 'lie') and said it was good - not because of some secret agenda - but because UYI was already 2 years late and because he knows Axl is sensitive and may have been offended at Slash shitting on what is clearly a personal project for him.

In short - the band probably didn't like it - but did they not like it enough to fuck up the whole UYI release over it? Or is it easier in an album full of varied pieces anyway to just let Axl put it on the end to keep him happy.

Seems much more plausible to me than some long-term conspiracy from guys with the drug intake of Slash/Duff etc in the 1990s.

5 years later and I still can't find anything to like about CitR. Outside of that one track, it's easily my favorite GN'R album.

Do you feel that way about the demo too?

I'm curious because to me the early version seemed more piano led and really showcased the melody, lyrics and structure of the songwriting more than the final version.

The final version was good in that it's more cohesive with the rest of the album. It sounds like the same "band" in that it's now got as many parts and as much production as the other tracks - while the demo sounded like a much more simple arrangement and line up.

Yeah. It started with the demo. I just never liked the tune. It's the one leak from way back when that I just couldn't listen to a lot because I didn't like it. I was hoping I'd like the album version more but it never caught on with me.

[classicrawker]

Axl told us in the chats that he was disingenuously encouraged by Slash to include My World on the final cut of UYI2 in order to publicly humiliate him.

That story is one of the more disturbing stories from Axl.

No offence to him but it just sounds so paranoid.

Slash would have to be some kind of evil genius to be clever enough to be the junky he was yet also subtly masterminding an evil scheme to make Axl lose face creatively with the hard rock public.

To me it's a lot more plausible that Axl became interested in electronic music and so produced "My World".

Meanwhile he played it to Slash - who naturally hated it because he wants all his bands to be guitar oriented classic rock - however Slash was diplomatic (i guess a 'lie') and said it was good - not because of some secret agenda - but because UYI was already 2 years late and because he knows Axl is sensitive and may have been offended at Slash shitting on what is clearly a personal project for him.

In short - the band probably didn't like it - but did they not like it enough to fuck up the whole UYI release over it? Or is it easier in an album full of varied pieces anyway to just let Axl put it on the end to keep him happy.

Seems much more plausible to me than some long-term conspiracy from guys with the drug intake of Slash/Duff etc in the 1990s.

5 years later and I still can't find anything to like about CitR. Outside of that one track, it's easily my favorite GN'R album.

Do you feel that way about the demo too?

I'm curious because to me the early version seemed more piano led and really showcased the melody, lyrics and structure of the songwriting more than the final version.

The final version was good in that it's more cohesive with the rest of the album. It sounds like the same "band" in that it's now got as many parts and as much production as the other tracks - while the demo sounded like a much more simple arrangement and line up.

It all goes back to the simple fact that many of the former members and those close to the band tell the same stories about what happened and Axl is the only one pushing his version of the story...so logically who do you think is telling the truth about what happened back then? the many telling the same basic stories or the one as in Axl?

I am still waiting for someone close to the band back in the old days to step up and validate that Axl is telling the truth and the others are all lying....all I get is crickets when I ask that question...............

[classicrawker]

Again with the issues reading, you sure you're doing OK. Yes, I am 100 percent certain that they are selling through their stock. If stores aren't restocking, which they aren't, it means that they are selling out of their stock. You're on you own with making up the numbers for that though, some of us don't pretend to know things that we don't.

So because the store you talked to are not restocking it means every store is selling through their stock? you still have not answered my question though............. even without knowing how many units they had to start does it seem logical to you that they would be selling 100, 000 of units of a cutout CD that Best Buy could not sell at $1.99? and I am not making claims of having without knowledge I am using simple logic here in the face of lack of facts to state an opinion that it is unlikley that U.S. salvage store sales are going to have much impact on the overall global sales of ChiDem............don't take things so personal mate I am not trying to bust you stones just trying to have some fun debating with you............

Yes, it is quite feasible that a store with far more locations and a wider customer base sells more than an electronics retail store.

I don't know if you've ever worked in retail, but if a store sells through its stock and another store has plenty more, they ship some from the store with stock to the store with none. It's a common retail practice that follows the laws of supply and demand.

Yes I did work retail for 5-6 years so I know how that works but you do understand what the Dollar stores are right? they sell shit other stores can't get rid of so it is basically just a junk store selling cheap shit. People don't usually go there with a shopping list or any specific agenda on what they are going to buy as the inventory is contantly turning over with new cheap crap shoppers go there to see if there are any real deals to be had ..................IMHO they certainly don't go there to specifically buy music like they do at Best Buy so anyone buying a copy of ChiDem would do so as an after thought figuring it is only 99 cents so they can always use the disc as a coaster if they don't like it...........so logically I will ask you again do you really believe that sales of ChiDem at salvage stores like the Dollar store could even make a dent in overall sales of that album here in the U.S. when Best Buy could only sell 3500 in a week when they put it on sale for $1.99?.........I don't think so..................

Edited December 22, 2013 by classicrawker

[DieselDaisy]

They invested a lot of money in those recordings.

And made that money back with the Best Buy deal and then some...........they already paid for the recordings so I am sure they could make some $$$, even if it sold half of what ChiDem did, but in today's music industry I think NuGnR is considered a classic legacy rock band so not so sure there is a huge market for new music by them which is why I doubt UMG is losing any sleep over not releasing the ChiDem leftovers...........IMHO of course

But you are missing the point. Interscope-Geffen are a record company and therefore, their whole purpose for being is, to release records. (And before you mention nostalgia compilations such as Greatest Hits, these could be released sporadically without Axl signed as Geffen are always going to own the masters of Appetite for Destruction etc.) No matter how poor the industry, how poor Chinese Democracy's performance, how much a desire for 'reunion', the record company's base instinct so long as they have not severed their relationship with Axl will always fall back upon, releasing stuff. And considering they have already invested millions in 'Chinese Leftovers' merely reinforces the point.

They have Axl signed meaning there must be some sort of stipulation on 'Chinese Democracy 2' as that is how record contracts generally work, you sign up for 'x amount of albums'. Besides, it is such a cop out. Chinese Democracy failed but what happened to (and this applies to both the artist and the record company), ‘if at first you do not succeed‘, try again. Neil Young, Motorhead, Slash, Springsteen all release albums regularly enough to speculate that they make enough of a financial return to justify more of the same.

Axl told us in the chats that he was disingenuously encouraged by Slash to include My World on the final cut of UYI2 in order to publicly humiliate him.

That story is one of the more disturbing stories from Axl.

No offence to him but it just sounds so paranoid.

Slash would have to be some kind of evil genius to be clever enough to be the junky he was yet also subtly masterminding an evil scheme to make Axl lose face creatively with the hard rock public.

To me it's a lot more plausible that Axl became interested in electronic music and so produced "My World".

Meanwhile he played it to Slash - who naturally hated it because he wants all his bands to be guitar oriented classic rock - however Slash was diplomatic (i guess a 'lie') and said it was good - not because of some secret agenda - but because UYI was already 2 years late and because he knows Axl is sensitive and may have been offended at Slash shitting on what is clearly a personal project for him.

In short - the band probably didn't like it - but did they not like it enough to fuck up the whole UYI release over it? Or is it easier in an album full of varied pieces anyway to just let Axl put it on the end to keep him happy.

Seems much more plausible to me than some long-term conspiracy from guys with the drug intake of Slash/Duff etc in the 1990s.

It is certainly in the top three 'Slash-related paranoia' things from Axl, alongside, ''Slash forced me to do the 1991 tour when I was emotionally crippled to destroy me'', and, '' I read his autobiography just to see what I am up against''. To say he has an 'unhealthy obsession' with the top-hatted one is an understatement.

Edited December 22, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[Damn_Smooth]

Again with the issues reading, you sure you're doing OK. Yes, I am 100 percent certain that they are selling through their stock. If stores aren't restocking, which they aren't, it means that they are selling out of their stock. You're on you own with making up the numbers for that though, some of us don't pretend to know things that we don't.

So because the store you talked to are not restocking it means every store is selling through their stock? you still have not answered my question though............. even without knowing how many units they had to start does it seem logical to you that they would be selling 100, 000 of units of a cutout CD that Best Buy could not sell at $1.99? and I am not making claims of having without knowledge I am using simple logic here in the face of lack of facts to state an opinion that it is unlikley that U.S. salvage store sales are going to have much impact on the overall global sales of ChiDem............don't take things so personal mate I am not trying to bust you stones just trying to have some fun debating with you............

Yes, it is quite feasible that a store with far more locations and a wider customer base sells more than an electronics retail store.

I don't know if you've ever worked in retail, but if a store sells through its stock and another store has plenty more, they ship some from the store with stock to the store with none. It's a common retail practice that follows the laws of supply and demand.

Yes I did work retail for 5-6 years so I know how that works but you do understand what the Dollar stores are right? they sell shit other stores can't get rid of so it is basically just a junk store selling cheap shit. People don't usually go there with a shopping list or any specific agenda on what they are going to buy as the inventory is contantly turning over with new cheap crap shoppers go there to see if there are any real deals to be had ..................IMHO they certainly don't go there to specifically buy music like they do at Best Buy so anyone buying a copy of ChiDem would do so as an after thought figuring it is only 99 cents so they can always use the disc as a coaster if they don't like it...........so logically I will ask you again do you really believe that sales of ChiDem at salvage stores like the Dollar store could even make a dent in overall sales of that album here in the U.S. when Best Buy could only sell 3500 in a week when they put it on sale for $1.99?.........I don't think so..................

And I will answer that yes again, I think that CD could sell more at Dollar Tree at half the price than it could at a smaller chain at $1.99. Not so sure why you find that difficult to believe when Slash can sell 100,000 copies at full price, but I'm going to leave that to you to figure out. If you wish to start an alt account to argue this further, I'll be glad to point out how ignorant that I think you're acting; but I respect you too much to be insulting on your real account.

[luciusfunk]

I'm disappointed I haven't seen Chinese Democracy at Dollar Tree. I did get a nice unauthorized Simpsons book though. I haven't touched it since I bought it.

[bran]

I'm disappointed I haven't seen Chinese Democracy at Dollar Tree. I did get a nice unauthorized Simpsons book though. I haven't touched it since I bought it.

i have been looking as well never found one

[Chuloputas]

great review, he's fair :

awesome review!!

there's no life in those songs, they're boring.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Chuloputas

[Chris 55]

Axl told us in the chats that he was disingenuously encouraged by Slash to include My World on the final cut of UYI2 in order to publicly humiliate him.

That story is one of the more disturbing stories from Axl.

No offence to him but it just sounds so paranoid.

Slash would have to be some kind of evil genius to be clever enough to be the junky he was yet also subtly masterminding an evil scheme to make Axl lose face creatively with the hard rock public.

To me it's a lot more plausible that Axl became interested in electronic music and so produced "My World".

Meanwhile he played it to Slash - who naturally hated it because he wants all his bands to be guitar oriented classic rock - however Slash was diplomatic (i guess a 'lie') and said it was good - not because of some secret agenda - but because UYI was already 2 years late and because he knows Axl is sensitive and may have been offended at Slash shitting on what is clearly a personal project for him.

In short - the band probably didn't like it - but did they not like it enough to fuck up the whole UYI release over it? Or is it easier in an album full of varied pieces anyway to just let Axl put it on the end to keep him happy.

Seems much more plausible to me than some long-term conspiracy from guys with the drug intake of Slash/Duff etc in the 1990s.

5 years later and I still can't find anything to like about CitR. Outside of that one track, it's easily my favorite GN'R album.

Do you feel that way about the demo too?

I'm curious because to me the early version seemed more piano led and really showcased the melody, lyrics and structure of the songwriting more than the final version.

The final version was good in that it's more cohesive with the rest of the album. It sounds like the same "band" in that it's now got as many parts and as much production as the other tracks - while the demo sounded like a much more simple arrangement and line up.

Yeah. It started with the demo. I just never liked the tune. It's the one leak from way back when that I just couldn't listen to a lot because I didn't like it. I was hoping I'd like the album version more but it never caught on with me.

I'm STILL baffled that the leak source was from a CASSETTE. Who the fuck records to a CASSETTE!?

[trqster]

Here's to CD the album that time will not remember.

[Fin]

Madagascar should've been the opening track as well as the first single, and we would have had the "seventeen year masterpiece" imo.

Maddie, Twat, Riad kicks a lot here. Actually the whole playlist works perfectly for me, great flow. No impression of too many balads or filler songs for example.

1. Madagascar

2. There Was a Time

3. Riad N' The Bedouins

4. If The World

5. IRS

6. Catcher In The Rye

7. Prostitute

8. Scraped

9. Shackler's Revenge

10. Sorry

11. Better

12. CD

13. Street Of Dreams

14. This I Love

[magisme]

Not again with this shit.

[sweetness]

Generally it's not a good idea to start a rock album with one of the weakest songs.

[Sixes]

seeing all 14 songs listed, the only conclusion I have is : what a fucking shit collection of songs that is

[Caught in a Coma]

Changing the track order would not make the record better! It's the same damn songs.

[DR DOOM]

At least CD (the song) is a bit upbeat, I'd bet that people would just eject the disc if they put in the long awaited, mythical Chinese Democracy album and the first song is a woe is me butthurt anthem.

[Fin]

At least CD (the song) is a bit upbeat, I'd bet that people would just eject the disc if they put in the long awaited, mythical Chinese Democracy album and the first song is a woe is me butthurt anthem.

Remember the one minute intro followed by a riff-rock cliche was a bit of laughing stock back then.

So many people wanted CD to fail. CD-Shackler's-Better-SOD was a completely disastrous way of opening the self-proclaimed best album ever, so they got what they wanted.

People were not ejecting UYI II when hearing Civil War back in 91.

[RichardNixon]

I wouldn't say that "it's the best album ever," but I like it a lot.

[Apollo]

I still think the album is amazing and I wish Axl would share more of his music with his millions of fans.

Axl and Team Brazil need to ignore their critics and concentrate on the fans!!!

[Rovim]

After listening to it for 5 years, I love it even more. Great album.

But Axl could have released 5 albums in the time it took him to release just one, and that's a damn shame. It meant no touring as well at a time when Axl was still in his prime, so it made the most damage to what Axl was trying to do all around.

Not doing anything for too long was his biggest mistake as the self proclaimed leader of the band.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Rovim