So if Axl is such a musical genius then why...

[Broskirose]

The only ones unable to admit to his genius are the butt hurt slasholes that are still carrying a 20 year old grudge.

Haven't I disproved this theory by stating that CD is my favorite album, and I don't consider him a genius though?

[Rustycage]

First let me say that I am fairly new to this forum with only a few posts under my belt...

If you truly are new to this forum and not just an alt, then let me tell you the basics, according to this forum:

Axl wrote AFD. Slash was drugged out the whole time, and Axl actually wrote Slash's solos. Izzy had some input into AFD, but mostly it was Axl. (There's a well-accepted rumor that DJ ghost-wrote and ghost-performed AFD).

UYI had some dull moments thanks to Slash becoming a dictator. Axl, however, still saved the day with his maestro skillz.

Slash then came to Axl with what would become Slash's first solo album and told Axl to sing it. Slash wrote all the lyrics, because hey, that's what Slash is known for: his lyric writing. Haven't you seen his signature Gibson songwriting pen and paper set? Slash won't let anyone write lyrics, just look at VR, Slash wrote all those lyrics too.

Then Axl wrote ChiDem, which is accepted as the greatest work of anything that any human has done. The ONLY reasons it tanked is that the label was OUT TA GET AXL, Slash interfered, and Irving screwed up the tracklisting order.

And there you go.

You forgot that BBF wrote Estranged.

[dalsh327]

After Foghat did "Slow Ride", it was all downhill from that point on, wasn't it?

[voIcano62]

The only ones unable to admit to his genius are the butt hurt slasholes that are still carrying a 20 year old grudge.

Haven't I disproved this theory by stating that CD is my favorite album, and I don't consider him a genius though?

I'm not saying there can't be an occasional exception. For the most part, the only ones who deny his genius are the bitter ones that still long for the 1990s. Sad that some can't get over it 20 years later.

Edited January 25, 2014 by voIcano62

[Rustycage]

The only ones unable to admit to his genius are the butt hurt slasholes that are still carrying a 20 year old grudge.

I thought Axl said it was 15 years.

Oh wait, I thought you meant simply those holding the grudge cause as far as I know, that's Axl. He can't have a slightly rough shit without blaming it on Slash.

[volcano62]

So when are the mods going to take care of the fake volcano62 account?

It's BBA's old account

[voIcano62]

So when are the mods going to take care of the fake volcano62 account?

It's BBA's old account

Mods - will someone please address this imposter who is pretending to be me. Don't make me go all kung-fu on your asses to make it happen.

[wfuckinga]

So when are the mods going to take care of the fake volcano62 account?

It's BBA's old account

Mods - will someone please address this imposter who is pretending to be me. Don't make me go all kung-fu on your asses to make it happen.

BBA it is quite clear you are the imposter.

[alfierose]

Sorry volcano but this is quite amusing :-D

I'm sure it will be sorted out soon though! How have they managed the same username?

[Rustycage]

It's an I(i) instead of an l(L)

Edited January 25, 2014 by Rustycage

[voIcano62]

I hate bitter $lasholes that prefer junkie musicians over quality ones like Ron, Richard, and Dizwald.

[DieselDaisy]

First let me say that I am fairly new to this forum with only a few posts under my belt...but I've read enough posts to see that questions like the one I'm about to ask have a tendency to quickly deteriorate into heated Axl/newGnR vs. Slash/oldGnR debates. I hope that doesn't happen to this one because that is not my intent and I'm not really in either camp. I do have a clear preference for which style of music I like better (which will become apparent below), but I like both Axl and Slash, respect both of them as musicians, and like all of their work.

And this is somewhat of a follow-up question to my post from yesterday ("The GnR songwriting process").

The evolution of the band seems to be one of Axl gaining more and more influence/control over time until ultimately he had full control (CD). So it would seem that whether or not one percieves Axl to be a musical wiz hinges upon whether or not one thinks the band/music regressed or improved over time. Obviously there were many variables involved (like the band spending less time together, tensions among members, drugs, etc.), but one of the main/constant factors seems to be Axl's influence on the creative process.

For me (and I realize this is subjective/personal taste)...the quality of the music regressed as Axl gradually came to have more influence...the band peaked with AFD/Lies, with the UYI era stuff not being as good as AFD, and then CD (which was essentially an Axl solo record with the band being GnR in name only) being worse than the UYI material. Also, I prefer most of Snakepit, VR and Slash's solo stuff to CD. Don't get me wrong...I do like CD very much...I just don't like it as well as "old" GnR or Slash's side projects/solo work.

So assuming Axl was the "director", the "maestro", with everything flowing from him...and if he was such a musical genius then why did the band regress musically as he gained more control and influence?

(Of course...if you are in the camp that thinks that the band progressed and that CD is a masterpiece...then I can understand why you would percieve Axl as a genius. )

I completely agree - especially your point about AFD: for me, GN'R peaked when you had five equal guys. Axl's decisions have usually been poor such as the decision to film cheesy videos and the decision to swamp Illusion in overdubs.

[voIcano62]

First let me say that I am fairly new to this forum with only a few posts under my belt...but I've read enough posts to see that questions like the one I'm about to ask have a tendency to quickly deteriorate into heated Axl/newGnR vs. Slash/oldGnR debates. I hope that doesn't happen to this one because that is not my intent and I'm not really in either camp. I do have a clear preference for which style of music I like better (which will become apparent below), but I like both Axl and Slash, respect both of them as musicians, and like all of their work.

And this is somewhat of a follow-up question to my post from yesterday ("The GnR songwriting process").

The evolution of the band seems to be one of Axl gaining more and more influence/control over time until ultimately he had full control (CD). So it would seem that whether or not one percieves Axl to be a musical wiz hinges upon whether or not one thinks the band/music regressed or improved over time. Obviously there were many variables involved (like the band spending less time together, tensions among members, drugs, etc.), but one of the main/constant factors seems to be Axl's influence on the creative process.

For me (and I realize this is subjective/personal taste)...the quality of the music regressed as Axl gradually came to have more influence...the band peaked with AFD/Lies, with the UYI era stuff not being as good as AFD, and then CD (which was essentially an Axl solo record with the band being GnR in name only) being worse than the UYI material. Also, I prefer most of Snakepit, VR and Slash's solo stuff to CD. Don't get me wrong...I do like CD very much...I just don't like it as well as "old" GnR or Slash's side projects/solo work.

So assuming Axl was the "director", the "maestro", with everything flowing from him...and if he was such a musical genius then why did the band regress musically as he gained more control and influence?

(Of course...if you are in the camp that thinks that the band progressed and that CD is a masterpiece...then I can understand why you would percieve Axl as a genius. )

I completely agree - especially your point about AFD: for me, GN'R peaked when you had five equal guys. Axl's decisions have usually been poor such as the decision to film cheesy videos and the decision to swamp Illusion in overdubs.

Wrong. GNR peaked when Axl took control from the junkies. Prior to that it was mayhem and I truly sympathized for Axl's situation.

[Patience 4 Axl]

Genius is an over used word around here. Along with epic and legend.

Axl was very talented as a writer and performer, he was unique at a time when most bands weren't. Even his most vocal detractors wouldn't deny his talent. Hell, Slash has praised him numerous times despite all the bitterness between them. But Axl didn't do it alone, and that's why he's not a genius. He was part of a group, that brought out the best in him. And not because they were paid or because he demanded it, but because they all shared a vision and a respect that can't be bought.

With CD and the tours, what he's shown to the world is that he can hire multiple talented musicians, dictate to them how and when he wants things done, be in complete control, yet is incapable of coming close to how special it once was. He wanted to make Guns great again, but on his own terms this time, and he failed. Money can buy talent, and it can give you power, but what it can't buy is chemistry, compatibility, connection.

[GivenToFly]

I doubt many of the rock'n'roll greats were musical geniuses. People like Hendrix, Morrison, Little Richard etc, their strengths were instinctual or intuitive in nature rather than down to a deep understanding of music. Some of rock'n'roll's top guitarists can't even read sheet music.

[Apollo]

Genius is an over used word around here. Along with epic and legend.

Axl was very talented as a writer and performer, he was unique at a time when most bands weren't. Even his most vocal detractors wouldn't deny his talent. Hell, Slash has praised him numerous times despite all the bitterness between them. But Axl didn't do it alone, and that's why he's not a genius. He was part of a group, that brought out the best in him. And not because they were paid or because he demanded it, but because they all shared a vision and a respect that can't be bought.

With CD and the tours, what he's shown to the world is that he can hire multiple talented musicians, dictate to them how and when he wants things done, be in complete control, yet is incapable of coming close to how special it once was. He wanted to make Guns great again, but on his own terms this time, and he failed. Money can buy talent, and it can give you power, but what it can't buy is chemistry, compatibility, connection.

Exactly.

The "genius" was the group GnR as a whole.

Axl's presence and song writing ability. Slash's guitar playing. Duff's booming bass. Adler's party drumming ability. Izzy's song writing ability and skill at being a rhythm guitar player. The musical song writing ability of slash/izzy. Mix all those things together and you have "genius."

Those guys created an album that sold 25 million copies and is generally considered one of the 10 best hard rock albums of all time.

While I love CD more than most people..........this is Axl's work without Izzy, Slash, Duff and Adler. One of my personal favorite albums of all time, but an album that failed to resonate with the rock world. If Axl was a true musical genius, CD would have been a much better album.

But that's OK. Axl doesn't have to be a genius. He doesn't have to write albums that sell 25 million copies. He doesn't have to create albums that capture the rock world and will make top 10 best rock album of all time lists. I just with the guy would share his music with his remaining millions of fans. Some of which have supported him and his career for 25 years. Share your music, man. Share your music. Millions of YOUR FANS would love to make you even richer.

[IncitingChaos]

He's just really talented. To me songs like November Rain and Estranged are proof of how excellent he is, and can be. What makes him better than most is his willingness to express his emotions and relationships in songs. I think most people are terrified of this aspect of song writing and performing.

Is he a genius? That's subjective to what you believe genius is. He hasn't created a new genre of music, or done it by himself. I think he is incredible as a rock and roll singer, songwriter, and performer while also showing the versatility to perform outside of Rock and Roll. I'd call him a living legend right now. Not a genius, but he is very smart and bold enough to be great at what he does.

[Mysteron]

First let me say that I am fairly new to this forum with only a few posts under my belt...but I've read enough posts to see that questions like the one I'm about to ask have a tendency to quickly deteriorate into heated Axl/newGnR vs. Slash/oldGnR debates. I hope that doesn't happen to this one because that is not my intent and I'm not really in either camp. I do have a clear preference for which style of music I like better (which will become apparent below), but I like both Axl and Slash, respect both of them as musicians, and like all of their work.

And this is somewhat of a follow-up question to my post from yesterday ("The GnR songwriting process").

The evolution of the band seems to be one of Axl gaining more and more influence/control over time until ultimately he had full control (CD). So it would seem that whether or not one percieves Axl to be a musical wiz hinges upon whether or not one thinks the band/music regressed or improved over time. Obviously there were many variables involved (like the band spending less time together, tensions among members, drugs, etc.), but one of the main/constant factors seems to be Axl's influence on the creative process.

For me (and I realize this is subjective/personal taste)...the quality of the music regressed as Axl gradually came to have more influence...the band peaked with AFD/Lies, with the UYI era stuff not being as good as AFD, and then CD (which was essentially an Axl solo record with the band being GnR in name only) being worse than the UYI material. Also, I prefer most of Snakepit, VR and Slash's solo stuff to CD. Don't get me wrong...I do like CD very much...I just don't like it as well as "old" GnR or Slash's side projects/solo work.

So assuming Axl was the "director", the "maestro", with everything flowing from him...and if he was such a musical genius then why did the band regress musically as he gained more control and influence?

(Of course...if you are in the camp that thinks that the band progressed and that CD is a masterpiece...then I can understand why you would percieve Axl as a genius. )

A canny musician will always try to fit in to an era

In the late 80s, you have all the fancy pants LA hair bands, you have you mother loving Bon Jovi bands, you have your pomp and ceremony British bands, then you get GN'R, the anti band. All these parts fitted together well as part of the scene in the late 80s.There was something for everyone.

This scene dies in 1990s, For me, UYI is a mixture of Axl trying to move on, and the rest of the band stuck in a scene which was finished. It is ultimately a snapshot of where the band was at as of late 1991.

After then, Axl tried to fit in with the music of the day, but music was never released

Edited January 25, 2014 by Mysteron

[GN'R Lies]

For me, he is not a musical genius. He had off the charts charisma, a great look and an amazing voice. The band wrote some incredible songs and it was the sum of all parts that made GN'R what it was. I agree it went downhill after AFD/Lies.

NuGN'R/CD is not a commercial success and he is not regarded as a musical genius in the industry or by his peers. I don't know of any other measures you can use to put a case forward.

Volcano: OP specifically asked not to turn this into an Axl v Slash topic.

[stella]

Axl is a very talented, very charismatic, very unique frontman and singer. There's no question there, as far as I'm concerned. As to being a genius? It's an overused word, and I don't think it applies to Axl. It doesn't have to. I'm trying to think of those who I would consider musical geniuses, and there aren't that many that come to mind. In the current era, maybe Paul McCartney and John Lennon. Jimi Hendrix. Les Paul, since he revolutionized guitars.

Having said that, being a genius doesn't guarantee financial or popular success by any means. There's that old story about Van Gogh only selling a painting or two during his lifetime, because people didn't get his work very much. Or Mozart dying young, in grave financial straits.

Edited January 25, 2014 by stella

[Val22]

I think Axl is one of a kind. There's no other person like him at all.

He's written some awesome songs with an amazing rock band that will live on forever in music history.

Calling anyone a genius is stretching it. You'd have to have a very high IQ and not many people do.

I don't think labeling anyone matters. I still enjoy GNR songs and probably always will. I think I'll have "Knockin on heaven's door" played at my funeral. I will probably have to knock since I'm not all that sure I will actually get in. lol

[bigcountry]

I do believe Axl could regain what he lost after AFD, Lies and UYI. Back then Axl was very determined, confident and more focused.

AFD was written more in a band setting but IMHO Axl and Izzy where the main song writers as far as the inital structor of the songs with everyone else exspanding on that. I maybe wrong.

Lies was a throw together thing do 2 thing give the fans something to tide them over and make it to where people that where lucky enough to have the orginal Live like a suicide ep couldn't sell them for the big sums they where selling the for prior to Lies.

UYI Is basicaly a band on the verge if braking up in the studio, UYI albums where fragmented in sound because of the contrasting styles each member wanted to use. I think with UYI if Axl wanted song X to be on the album Izzy said you can if I can put my song B on it and so on with the same music by with the other members and songs they put on the album that really where not GNR songs they where started and mostly written by a single member then they said what they wanted it to sound like to fit what music they wanted to make.

I will say out of the UYI album we still have serveral master peices on it and mostly they where songs that where left overs from AFD.

I think back then Axl was a "Icon" back then.

CD I like alot of it but some of it I just don't get and it is just super fragmented.

We need Axl to rise to that "Icon" status that he had back in the late 80's early 90's.

By this I me he needs to get focused, gritty,more in your face songs and most of all his confidence, I think that is really what is is sorely missing.

But he is what 50 does he have the will to rise to it again, slam out a record promote it and say here it is fuck off if you don't like. I think the chances of this happening are slim but I really whish we would leave the CD session stuff behind for now and just get in the studio and slam out a record that is in your face like he was going back to his song writting roots and get it out there. It will still need the softer side of Axl to with 2 power ballads.

All I can is I can only hope!!!

[Chewbacca]

What do you mean? Regress musically?

You surely aren't talking music complexity cuz CD is so complex and full of shit going on at the same time that it has displeased many fans that deemed it "overproduced".

If you're talking about musical quality, I would say that this is a personal opinion matter, Some fans consider it a regres, some don't.

[foghat43]

What do you mean? Regress musically?

You surely aren't talking music complexity cuz CD is so complex and full of shit going on at the same time that it has displeased many fans that deemed it "overproduced".

If you're talking about musical quality, I would say that this is a personal opinion matter, Some fans consider it a regres, some don't.

I wasn't talking about complexity...complexity has nothing to do with it. Just because something is more complex doesn't necessarily make it better or worse. What I meant was that over time the quality of the music got worse (IMO)...with AFD/Lies being better than UYI and UYI being better than CD....there was a downward trend in quality rather than an upward trend. I also noted that this was a matter of subjective/personal taste. I realize that there are folks who think the later stuff was better than the earlier stuff. My point was simply that there seems to be a direct correlation between Axl's control/influence and the quality/direction of the music. So if you think the band progressed then Axl's influence had a positive effect on the band...but if you think that the band regressed then Axl's influence had a negative impact on the band. Personally I think that his control/influence did much more harm than good, which begs the question...if the music/band regressed under his control/influence then why is he considered a "genius" (for lack of a better word) by so many fans...

[Smoking Baby]

CD is not complex. The songs all follow basic pop music structures. It does have a lot of layers, but they're usually the same melody, same tempo, same instrument. It's not a "rock" album with so many ballads but it sure is Axl using all his influences and pop flavors of the 2000s condensed in 14 songs.