One piece of evidence that supports the "label won't cooperate" theory

[tange]

While i think that if Axl wanted to he could push albums out more frequently there is one thing that does support the label theory.

remember that in 2008 several other acts released albums for the first time in a long time.

Both Metallica and ACDC released albums that year. Is it possible the label just thought the thing would sell that year with the other "nostalgia" acts releasing albums?

[magisme]

I think we need to work on our definition of "evidence."

[kanudo19]

my evidence to support it is that i just made a theory that makes sense in my head. Believe! Believe!!! REPENT!!!

[Guest NGOG]

Both Metallica and ACDC released albums that year. Is it possible the label just thought the thing would sell that year with the other "nostalgia" acts releasing albums?

First of all, Metallica and AC/DC have the benefit of having more "traditional" line-ups. They continue to be the image they are most associated with. Secondly, their last records don't really deviate from what are described as "their sounds". Contrast that with GNR. You have a line-up that doesn't match up with most people's perception of the name, and their last record was anything but conventional.

UMG were eager to get Chinese Democracy out whenever they could - not because they had any great ambitions for it, because they wanted rid of the responsibility - but any future GNR record will be much more of a negotiation process. There is no "return" hype anymore, so it's going to be much more about the actual merit of the record. Which Interscope may be difficult about.

Edited May 5, 2014 by NGOG

[Bumble's Bridge Pickup]

A bit far fetched

[gavgnr]

Didn't the label refuse an album handed in during 2010? Allegedly, of course.

[tange]

i didn't say it admissible in court.

just seems like more than a coincidence that all three dropped the same year, after no activity from any of the three for so long.

[downzy]

You're confusing correlation with causation.

The label is/was owed money for Chinese Democracy. Every year the album was delayed meant the label's money was tied up and couldn't be used to finance other acts. This notion that the record labels held off because of other big acts releasing albums is nonsense. Labels make money off of very few acts that they're not in the business of holding off releases when an album is certain to generate good to great numbers. A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.

If UMG was so concerned about putting Chinese Democracy up against other big acts, why did it release the album the same week as Kanye's?

Edited May 5, 2014 by downzy

[Axl_morris]

maybe the whole $13million for CD plays apart in it as well.

[SOLGER]

Chinese Democracy flopped........Axl's ego took a hit , the whole "with time people will realize how great it is " .....Sorry...it ain't gonna happen....

So he feels his "masterpiece" hasn't been appreciated by the world....why should he put anything else out?

We are ungreatful probably...

[Apollo]

Both Metallica and ACDC released albums that year. Is it possible the label just thought the thing would sell that year with the other "nostalgia" acts releasing albums?

UMG were eager to get Chinese Democracy out whenever they could - not because they had any great ambitions for it, because they wanted rid of the responsibility - but any future GNR record will be much more of a negotiation process. There is no "return" hype anymore, so it's going to be much more about the actual merit of the record. Which Interscope may be difficult about.

So UMG had no "great ambitions" for the first Guns n Roses album of original material in 17 years?

And Interscope "may be difficult about" the actual merit of a GnR album. What do you mean by that? Don't all labels want to release albums that are going to sell as many copies as possible? You are implying that Axl could turn in the next Appetite but Interscope would be difficult about accepting and releasing it?

[maynard]

After the way Axl "promoted" CD I'd be hesitant too. They know better than we do that a reunion will never happen so this "they're waiting for a reunion" bullshit is very stupid to say. Axl probably reminds them every meeting that no reunion will happen. All they can do is get money from a new nuGuns album, which Axl is taking years to deliver for whatever reason. But yeah, keep blaming Evilscope.

[Tom2112]

Anyone who thinks GnR are still not a huge band needs there head checked... play huge stadiums even though they have no new album to support the shows, continually get articles written about them without new material... the interest level is there. When there's that much interest labels will jump at the chance to release another record. How many acts do you know of can guarantee 1 to 5 million sales regardless of the quality of music and that take years between records? very few, Metallica, Ac/dc, U2 and Guns... interscope are not holding the "new album" hostage, it either doesn't exist or Axl is holding it hostage for whatever reason he's cooked up.

[Apollo]

Anyone who thinks GnR are still not a huge band needs there head checked... play huge stadiums even though they have no new album to support the shows, continually get articles written about them without new material... the interest level is there. When there's that much interest labels will jump at the chance to release another record. How many acts do you know of can guarantee 1 to 5 million sales regardless of the quality of music and that take years between records? very few, Metallica, Ac/dc, U2 and Guns... interscope are not holding the "new album" hostage, it either doesn't exist or Axl is holding it hostage for whatever reason he's cooked up.

Exactly.

How many albums is Guns n Roses under contract to the label for?

If it is more than one, than the "holding it up for the reunion" thing holds no water at all.

In today's day in terms of album sales, if GnR handed the label an album tomorrow that they thought Axl would promote and it would sell 4 million copies, they would release it ASAP.

People like to act like the label has some grudge against Axl (is out to get him) and is going to shelve anything he does in hopes there is a reunion. Labels are in business to make money. If Axl can produce 4-million album sellings records, any label in the world is going to take that all day, every day.

And let's be honest. The longer it takes for a reunion to happen, the less of a huge event it will be. Some people would say the opposite, the longer it takes the bigger it will be. But not with the way all these guys are staying in the public eye. With Slash putting out new albums every other year, with Duff/Matt/Adler all releasing music and/or playing in super groups, with GnR touring every year - it's not like all these guys disappeared for a decade and then reunite for an album. Look at the Van Halen 'reunion' album with David Lee Roth. It didn't exactly blow up the rock world. Members of GnR are all over out there in the music world. A reunion album featuring 60 year old GnR members isn't going to bring the label billions of dollars.

Bottom line. If GnR hands in quality albums, labels will release it. Labels are all about making money.

[ronartest2004]

Muddy is 100% correct, everyone involved with gnr since 1993 and on have said numerous times that they had heard 80+ songs, very few had lyrics and the ones that did weren't complete. But of course people take that and say "gnr has 80 songs that (insert name or record company here) won't release"

And if you read further into it those that have pressed axl about finishing lyrics to songs were quickly removed from working with gnr.

Even axl himself has said when speaking on baz talking about unreleased songs "I don't think he heard everything he thought he heard" I do think axl has had a big writers block for many years now, didn't zack even say something about talking with axl back in the mid to late 90s that axl said he couldn't think of anything to write and if he did it would be about lawyers and lawsuits..

Edited May 5, 2014 by ronartest2004

[Guest NGOG]

So UMG had no "great ambitions" for the first Guns n Roses album of original material in 17 years?

And Interscope "may be difficult about" the actual merit of a GnR album. What do you mean by that? Don't all labels want to release albums that are going to sell as many copies as possible? You are implying that Axl could turn in the next Appetite but Interscope would be difficult about accepting and releasing it?

Not when they heard the material, no. I honestly feel, and this isn't necessarily speculation if you consider the different statements we've gotten, that they didn't believe in the material. They threw milions of dollars at Axl to get the record sounding a certain way, but it never really changed to the point where they could say 'OK, this is why we consider GNR an A-client'. They were after a typically GNR record, and they didn't get it. Sure they gave it promotion, but they definitely didn't make it a marketing priority. At a time, UMG planned to make Chinese Democracy a landmark event. But as time went on, and Axl continued to pursue the record he wanted, they grew disinterested. It was just a matter of getting it out.

My point is that GNR no longer have a 14-year hype factor to release a record on. We're post-Chinese Democracy. Lots and lots of people believed that Axl could continue the glory of UYI, but their mentality changed conpletely when Chinese Democracy dropped. GNR now have a much more specific following.

[Apollo]

So UMG had no "great ambitions" for the first Guns n Roses album of original material in 17 years?

And Interscope "may be difficult about" the actual merit of a GnR album. What do you mean by that? Don't all labels want to release albums that are going to sell as many copies as possible? You are implying that Axl could turn in the next Appetite but Interscope would be difficult about accepting and releasing it?

Not when they heard the material, no. I honestly feel, and this isn't necessarily speculation if you consider the different statements we've gotten, that they didn't believe in the material. They threw milions of dollars at Axl to get the record sounding a certain way, but it never really changed to the point where they could say 'OK, this is why we consider GNR an A-client'. They were after a typically GNR record, and they didn't get it. Sure they gave it promotion, but they definitely didn't make it a marketing priority. At a time, UMG planned to make Chinese Democracy a landmark event. But as time went on, and Axl continued to pursue the record he wanted, they grew disinterested. It was just a matter of getting it out.

My point is that GNR no longer have a 14-year hype factor to release a record on. We're post-Chinese Democracy. Lots and lots of people believed that Axl could continue the glory of UYI, but their mentality changed conpletely when Chinese Democracy dropped. GNR now have a much more specific following.

Great post. Agree 100%.

And I can't really blame them from a business standpoint. While I might think that CD was the best rock album of the past decade, if the label didn't agree, then you can understand why they were hesitant about it. And if Axl turns in an obvious masterpiece tomorrow, the label isn't going to shelve it in hopes the old band will reunite 5 years from now.

Seems like the best route is for the label to work out a deal with Axl to release GnR from their contract. Which, I suppose, would only matter to us as fans is if Axl was interested in releasing new music on a regular basis. None of us know if that is something Axl would be interested in doing.

[D-GenerationX]

Seems like the best route is for the label to work out a deal with Axl to release GnR from their contract. Which, I suppose, would only matter to us as fans is if Axl was interested in releasing new music on a regular basis. None of us know if that is something Axl would be interested in doing.

They would never drop them for the .0000001% chance he reunites the band.

Now, I suggested this over at HTGTH, and it got me nothing but grief. But if that is truly where the label's main interest lies, why not tell them they can have the rights to a GNR reunion? If Axl knows he's never going to do it anyway, where is the harm? You sign that with one hand as you make the jerking off motion with the other.

But if that got you out of the contract (and I have no clue if it would) isn't that the smart business play? If you are truly interested in getting new stuff out, I'm saying.

[Apollo]

Seems like the best route is for the label to work out a deal with Axl to release GnR from their contract. Which, I suppose, would only matter to us as fans is if Axl was interested in releasing new music on a regular basis. None of us know if that is something Axl would be interested in doing.

They would never drop them for the .0000001% chance he reunites the band.

Now, I suggested this over at HTGTH, and it got me nothing but grief. But if that is truly where the label's main interest lies, why not tell them they can have the rights to a GNR reunion? If Axl knows he's never going to do it anyway, where is the harm? You sign that with one hand as you make the jerking off motion with the other.

But if that got you out of the contract (and I have no clue if it would) isn't that the smart business play? If you are truly interested in getting new stuff out, I'm saying.

That would be brilliant, and would satisfy all parties.

[SlashisGOD]

I just don't think Axl is interested in releasing the CD leftovers or new music. He won't be like Mick Jagger, up there on stage at 70 years old. Perhaps in his mind there's no point.

I saw a post on here some time back saying Prostitute was the perfect end to GN'R. After having listened to it again recently, I can agree with that sentiment based on the lyrics. Always did things his way, never gave in.

[Tom2112]

Anyone who thinks GnR are still not a huge band needs there head checked... play huge stadiums even though they have no new album to support the shows, continually get articles written about them without new material... the interest level is there. When there's that much interest labels will jump at the chance to release another record. How many acts do you know of can guarantee 1 to 5 million sales regardless of the quality of music and that take years between records? very few, Metallica, Ac/dc, U2 and Guns... interscope are not holding the "new album" hostage, it either doesn't exist or Axl is holding it hostage for whatever reason he's cooked up.

Exactly.

How many albums is Guns n Roses under contract to the label for?

If it is more than one, than the "holding it up for the reunion" thing holds no water at all.

In today's day in terms of album sales, if GnR handed the label an album tomorrow that they thought Axl would promote and it would sell 4 million copies, they would release it ASAP.

People like to act like the label has some grudge against Axl (is out to get him) and is going to shelve anything he does in hopes there is a reunion. Labels are in business to make money. If Axl can produce 4-million album sellings records, any label in the world is going to take that all day, every day.

And let's be honest. The longer it takes for a reunion to happen, the less of a huge event it will be. Some people would say the opposite, the longer it takes the bigger it will be. But not with the way all these guys are staying in the public eye. With Slash putting out new albums every other year, with Duff/Matt/Adler all releasing music and/or playing in super groups, with GnR touring every year - it's not like all these guys disappeared for a decade and then reunite for an album. Look at the Van Halen 'reunion' album with David Lee Roth. It didn't exactly blow up the rock world. Members of GnR are all over out there in the music world. A reunion album featuring 60 year old GnR members isn't going to bring the label billions of dollars.

Bottom line. If GnR hands in quality albums, labels will release it. Labels are all about making money.

The VH reunion didn't blow up the rock world because they had teased reunions after Cherone, and it was far more amicable... at least in the media. GnR is a different beast altogether. Similar record sales but VH were absolutely huge in the US but they never really worked europe so the aren't as big a deal over here.... Guns were a global band, the split was far from amicable... it's closer to Led Zeppelin committing to tour if Guns got back together... it could be even bigger than that. I don't foresee it happening though but it is a nice conversation topic.

[Apollo]

Tom - what do you think it would do in terms of album sales.

[Val22]

Well, some bands have contracts that say they must release so many albums in so many years.

I guess GNR doesn't have a contract that says anything like that. I mean look how long it took to release CD.

I would think Axl is still writing songs since he's a great writer, but maybe he just doesn't feel like actually singing songs and releasing any new music. I doubt he needs the money and maybe he just doesn't want to deal with all that business anymore.

GNR still tour and still must make good money or Axl wouldn't bother with touring either. Fans still come out to see them and GNR is now doing another Vegas residency. Some of the members of the band are in other bands, so maybe Axl doesn't feel like it would be a "real" GNR project. Maybe Axl should just release music as a solo artists, just to see if the cd would sell more.

[Apollo]

Maybe Axl should just release music as a solo artists, just to see if the cd would sell more.

Do you think it would?

[wasted]

It's really about promo budgets. Seems like inter scope/UMG have huge roster of acts but can only focus on a few. The bigger the band, the more is expected from both sides.

With so much sunk into CD and projected sales of 500k it made sense why the label weren't up for sink more in. The Best Buy deal is really why we got it. Otherwise the label would have held off forever and tried to work a reunion to make the money back. Wal Mart would be all over a reunion record.

New Guns could have made the greatest album ever and nobody would care in the industry. It's like trying to sell a whopper to people who want a Big Mac. You can tell its as good but they rather go to Burger King to get a Whopper.

Edited May 6, 2014 by wasted