Building owner installs spikes on floor in doorway .......

[Dazey]

........ to deter homeless people.

Guardian readers go apeshit!

Council chiefs are being urged to launch an investigation after metal spikes were installed outside a luxury block of London flats to deter homeless people from sleeping in the doorway.

The inch-high studs in the main entrance to the deluxe privately owned apartments in Southwark Bridge Road have provoked outrage as homelessness charities slammed the "inhumane" practice.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/08/metal-spikes-london-flats-homeless

Edited June 8, 2014 by Dazey

[TeeJay410]

It's their doorway, they can do what they damn well please with it.

[DieselDaisy]

That is terrible. We love in a cruel and unsympathetic world.

[Dazey]

That is terrible. We love in a cruel and unsympathetic world.

At first it seems a bit mean but really how is it any different from a garden wall or a locked window?

[DieselDaisy]

That is terrible. We love in a cruel and unsympathetic world.

At first it seems a bit mean but really how is it any different from a garden wall or a locked window?

Well your doorway is a sort of public space by default. It is an underused space really, merely being the gateway from the outside and your house. It serves no purpose most of the time. If you work regular hours, I imagine, most of the time, a homeless person sleeping there between 11pm-6am will not effect you one bit. Windows however are gateways to your actual house, containing your family and your privacy and personal possessions. A garden wall, to a lesser degree, also.

Edited June 8, 2014 by DieselDaisy

[sweetness]

........ to deter homeless people.

Guardian readers go apeshit!

Council chiefs are being urged to launch an investigation after metal spikes were installed outside a luxury block of London flats to deter homeless people from sleeping in the doorway.

The inch-high studs in the main entrance to the deluxe privately owned apartments in Southwark Bridge Road have provoked outrage as homelessness charities slammed the "inhumane" practice.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/08/metal-spikes-london-flats-homeless

I'm sorry, what is the problem here?

[highvoltage]

Yes, the building owners were well within their rights to install the spikes. Most people would be uncomfortable with the homeless people sleeping in their doorway.

Is that a sad, or cruel aspect of our society? Sure, but it's not the saddest or the cruelest by any means.

The issue is more what the image represents. You also read that street sleeping has gone up by 75% in the past 3 years in London, and that funding has been cut from existing services for the homeless over the same period. The pressure should be on the government to provide more support and affordable housing for these people so building owners don't resort to these measures.

[pestilence]

i'm not trying to give anyone any ideas but if you happened just to be walking by an trip...

falling onto those spikes equals economic freedom

[Ace Nova]

Installing the spikes is rather extreme but it is private property and they can pretty much do as they please with it.

Now if people or publications (such as the Guardian) could pay as much attention and energy on how to resolve homelessness as they do on stuff like this....then stuff like this probably wouldn't happen.

[Redhead74]

If its private property why would he need to install that? In my understanding private property with an outdoor space is marked by a boundary line such as a fence. Any outdoor space within that boundary is solely for the use of the owner, which in this case it means that the homeless person would have to enter the property via a gate or an opening in the fence, which seems absolutely ridiculous!!! I've never seen or heard of anything like that in my life? Does this really happen? Homeless people just opening the gate, walking in and making themselves comfortable under the eaves of your house? I'd be more likely to just call the police and have them physically removed because its so ridiculous.

If those spikes have been installed in what is a public footpath, then that's not private property. It's public space and he would have no right to install such a thing.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Redhead74

[highvoltage]

If its private property why would he need to install that? In my understanding private property with an outdoor space is marked by a boundary line such as a fence. Any outdoor space within that boundary is solely for the use of the owner, which in this case it means that the homeless person would have to enter the property via a gate or an opening in the fence, which seems absolutely ridiculous!!! I've never seen or heard of anything like that in my life? Does this really happen? Homeless people just opening the gate, walking in and making themselves comfortable under the eaves of your house? I'd be more likely to just call the police and have them physically removed because its so ridiculous.

If those spikes have been installed in what is a public footpath, then that's not private property. It's public space and he would have no right to install such a thing.

It was a doorway:

[rock4eva]

If its private property why would he need to install that? In my understanding private property with an outdoor space is marked by a boundary line such as a fence. Any outdoor space within that boundary is solely for the use of the owner, which in this case it means that the homeless person would have to enter the property via a gate or an opening in the fence, which seems absolutely ridiculous!!! I've never seen or heard of anything like that in my life? Does this really happen? Homeless people just opening the gate, walking in and making themselves comfortable under the eaves of your house? I'd be more likely to just call the police and have them physically removed because its so ridiculous.

If those spikes have been installed in what is a public footpath, then that's not private property. It's public space and he would have no right to install such a thing.

It was a doorway:

I wonder if it would work a bit better if you allowed the homeless to sleep there & pay them to keep intruders away. That way the owners might not have to worry about a break-in, thehouse is guarded & the homeless person has some cash to spend on food or clothes.

Not everyone's cup of tea but maybe a kinder option, of course you'd have to check the homeless person is genuine & has no background of violence or robbery themselves. Not sure how you would do that though.

[highvoltage]

I wonder if it would work a bit better if you allowed the homeless to sleep there & pay them to keep intruders away. That way the owners might not have to worry about a break-in, thehouse is guarded & the homeless person has some cash to spend on food or clothes.

Not everyone's cup of tea but maybe a kinder option, of course you'd have to check the homeless person is genuine & has no background of violence or robbery themselves. Not sure how you would do that though.

It's a nice thought, but it's in front of a block of apartments. It's a lot of effort for building management to try and canvas resident support for something like that, and it's likely that more than one resident would complain about it.

There's just too many roadblocks and spikes are, unfortunately, a much easier option.

As I said before, it's the government's responsibility to put funding forward and provide proper shelter for the homeless. They shouldn't have to rely on the decency of others to find somewhere to sleep. These people shouldn't have to sleep on the street in doorways at all. We waste so much tax money on completely worthless shit in the western world, and there are people starving and homeless on our own streets. Taking care of them should be a higher priority.

You'd see an instant drop in crime rates, and they might actually have the time to find a job when they're not having to worry about whether they can find a meal or somewhere to sleep for the evening without spikes in the doorway.

[Dazey]

That is terrible. We love in a cruel and unsympathetic world.

At first it seems a bit mean but really how is it any different from a garden wall or a locked window?

Well your doorway is a sort of public space by default. It is an underused space really, merely being the gateway from the outside and your house. It serves no purpose most of the time. If you work regular hours, I imagine, most of the time, a homeless person sleeping there between 11pm-6am will not effect you one bit. Windows however are gateways to your actual house, containing your family and your privacy and personal possessions. A garden wall, to a lesser degree, also.

I'm sorry but that's actually a load of rubbish. You're really saying that because the government is failing the homeless it makes everybody's front porch effectively fair game? My doorstep and the front of my building is as much private property as the inside of my apartment.

[Lio]

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't want any homeless people sleeping or drinking in my doorway either. Don't know if spikes are a good idea though. Someone, be it a child or an older person, is bound to trip and fall onto the spikes and hurt themselves.

[Dazey]

Don't know if spikes are a good idea though. Someone, be it a child or an older person, is bound to trip and fall onto the spikes and hurt themselves.

I don't know if that's really likely to be a problem if you look at the placement of them.

[Lio]

Don't know if spikes are a good idea though. Someone, be it a child or an older person, is bound to trip and fall onto the spikes and hurt themselves.

I don't know if that's really likely to be a problem if you look at the placement of them.

I'm sure my kid could fall onto those, but maybe that's just her

[netcat]

Don't know if spikes are a good idea though. Someone, be it a child or an older person, is bound to trip and fall onto the spikes and hurt themselves.

I don't know if that's really likely to be a problem if you look at the placement of them.

I'm sure my kid could fall onto those, but maybe that's just her

on a good night i could easily fall in there as well

[Redhead74]

I wonder if it would work a bit better if you allowed the homeless to sleep there & pay them to keep intruders away. That way the owners might not have to worry about a break-in, thehouse is guarded & the homeless person has some cash to spend on food or clothes.Not everyone's cup of tea but maybe a kinder option, of course you'd have to check the homeless person is genuine & has no background of violence or robbery themselves. Not sure how you would do that though.

It's a nice thought, but it's in front of a block of apartments. It's a lot of effort for building management to try and canvas resident support for something like that, and it's likely that more than one resident would complain about it. There's just too many roadblocks and spikes are, unfortunately, a much easier option. As I said before, it's the government's responsibility to put funding forward and provide proper shelter for the homeless. They shouldn't have to rely on the decency of others to find somewhere to sleep. These people shouldn't have to sleep on the street in doorways at all. We waste so much tax money on completely worthless shit in the western world, and there are people starving and homeless on our own streets. Taking care of them should be a higher priority.You'd see an instant drop in crime rates, and they might actually have the time to find a job when they're not having to worry about whether they can find a meal or somewhere to sleep for the evening without spikes in the doorway.

I agree wholeheartedly, but I also believe that a lot of people live on the streets for exactly the opposite reason, in that they find conforming to societies 'rules' of working a 9 to 5 job, paying bills and mortgages just impossible for whatever reason. Its not always that they were driven from a safe environment due to abuse and had nowhere else to go. They're misfits in that they can't live by the majorities way of doing things. Addiction may have been a factor before, it may become a factor after, every case is different, but for many (not all) just providing them with a roof over their head doesn't make them able to work full time or be what we define as a functioning member of society. It's a very hard problem to tackle.

In regards to the spikes obviously it was the developer of the apartment building that installed them. Clearly he's not going to sell the apartments or rent them out when residents come home at the end of the day to find someone sleeping right next to the front door. That's not only uncomfortable but possibly also a safety issue. And if he does something to help that homeless 'person' it will probably be immediately replaced by the next one and the next one and how many can he reasonable be expected to personally help?

It's definitely a government issue, and more needs to be done to alleviate the problem. I have no idea what kind of area this is in but the developer could employ a guard who is positioned at a desk inside the front door to move anyone on who decides to settle there for the evening instead of making the whole building appear to be inhabited by heartless cunts who use spikes to deter a destitute person. It was common in Singapore to have a security desk at apartment buildings who were actually there to direct people like postal workers, maintenance workers, taxis, etc. Singapore doesn't have a homeless problem because their government is wealthy enough to provide heavily subsidised housing to everyone, appropriate mental health care and drugs are hard to come by because of the harsh penalties. Not impossible, but hard. They also have the luxury of being a very small country geographically with little necessary infrastructure and as a result they can direct their revenue to protecting its citizens. It works. It's unfortunate this can't be the case in so many other cities.

Don't know if spikes are a good idea though. Someone, be it a child or an older person, is bound to trip and fall onto the spikes and hurt themselves.

I don't know if that's really likely to be a problem if you look at the placement of them.

There's actually no reason for that alcove to be there at all. If homeless people settling in that area is an issue why wasn't the building designed without it in the first place?

[DR DOOM]

"I'll lay you down and when all else fails, I'll drive you like a hobo on a Bed of Nails"

[DieselDaisy]

I am laughing at everybody pointing out, 'private' property. Total straw man argument. Nobody is denying that the owner has a legal right to build the spikes: what - at least I am saying - concerns, morality.

There is a sort of extremity and mean-spiritness about it.

[Dazey]

I am laughing at everybody pointing out, 'private' property. Total straw man argument. Nobody is denying that the owner has a legal right to build the spikes: what - at least I am saying - concerns, morality.

There is a sort of extremity and mean-spiritness about it.

That's purely an aesthetic thing as I see it. If they'd installed a couple of concrete plant pots instead nobody would be saying a word.

[DieselDaisy]

But plant pots are not designed to hurt people.

[DR DOOM]

When they start installing spikes under bridges, the bums will know they are well and truly fucked

[Dazey]

But plant pots are not designed to hurt people.

Nor these unless somebody purposefully decides to lay down on them. From the way some people are going on you'd think they were actually going looking for people and sticking them with spikes.

Also the whole private property thing is in no way a straw man argument. It's a simple case of not wanting to walk out of your front door into piles of shit, piss and broken bottles.

I would just like to know how many of the people outraged about this would be saying the same thing if it were their doorstep.