Some CD love emerging...!?

[RussTCB]

Could really give a shit what other people think. I like it and thats all that matters to me. If people wanna come to a message board, and bash it everyday thats their perogative.

No one comes here just to bash CD every day. Some people don't like it and they voice that opinion which is totally fine.

I didnt say they did. I said "if people want to..," hypothetically.

Fair point.

[dalsh327]

CD reviews were mostly favorable and a couple of 'hipster' websites trashed it. It did sell well but it was 5 years too late as far as people running out to the store to buy it. MySpace streaming it affected sales more than file sharing did, which was a sign of things to come with Pandora and Spotify at how people like getting their music.

I didn't think the album was uneven, it's pretty cohesive and it's not for everyone. It wasn't the "industrial" album people thought it was going to be. There are moments it does sound like a GNR album at times, but without some of that Stones-like style on past albums, it's hard to call it a GNR album. To me that sound defined GNR and you're always going to have people wanting to keep that intact. But if he went in that direction on a few songs, fans would have been bashing him on trying to sound like old GNR. It's a no-win situation when it comes to opinions.

UYI was way more uneven but it had so many great songs on it to compensate for the weak songs. But then you get into what made Exile on Main St, or the White Album great..

[RussTCB]

CD reviews were mostly favorable and a couple of 'hipster' websites trashed it. It did sell well but it was 5 years too late as far as people running out to the store to buy it. MySpace streaming it affected sales more than file sharing did, which was a sign of things to come with Pandora and Spotify at how people like getting their music.

I didn't think the album was uneven, it's pretty cohesive and it's not for everyone. It wasn't the "industrial" album people thought it was going to be. There are moments it does sound like a GNR album at times, but without some of that Stones-like style on past albums, it's hard to call it a GNR album. To me that sound defined GNR and you're always going to have people wanting to keep that intact. But if he went in that direction on a few songs, fans would have been bashing him on trying to sound like old GNR. It's a no-win situation when it comes to opinions.

UYI was way more uneven but it had so many great songs on it to compensate for the weak songs. But then you get into what made Exile on Main St, or the White Album great..

I'll probably get my head caved in for saying this, but I have to agree about the myspace streaming probably affecting sales the most. Obviously a TON of the mystery was taken out of the whole thing, but on top of that it seems many people just didn't like what they heard.

[wkuk04]

People complain saying it doesn't sound like Guns N' Roses. But to me it sounds like an evolution of the GnR sound instead of dinosaur rock.

[Apollo]

People complain saying it doesn't sound like Guns N' Roses. But to me it sounds like an evolution of the GnR sound instead of dinosaur rock.

What is dinasour rock and what does it have to do with this topic?

Which group of musicians do you think represented the "GnR" sound the best? Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff and Adler.....or.....Axl, Frank, Tommy, DJ, Richard, Dizzy and Pitman?

And you think having three guitar players and two keyboard players is an evolution of the GnR sound?

[wkuk04]

People complain saying it doesn't sound like Guns N' Roses. But to me it sounds like an evolution of the GnR sound instead of dinosaur rock.

What is dinasour rock and what does it have to do with this topic?

Which group of musicians do you think represented the "GnR" sound the best? Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff and Adler.....or.....Axl, Frank, Tommy, DJ, Richard, Dizzy and Pitman?

And you think having three guitar players and two keyboard players is an evolution of the GnR sound?

Well this topic is about the love emerging for Chinese Democracy so I'm referring to the record. The classic Illusion era was best but I also have love for the Axl, Brain, Buckethead, Tommy, Richard, Robin era. I mean dinosaur rock as in if the classic line-up struck together back in the mid 90's and released an album sounding like Appetite except they all live in Mansions at this point so they can't play/ sing about living under the street. I just love CD, I have it both digitally & on Cd and it sounds sweet.

[username]

So... I'm assuming Fernandouche got a job at Ultimate Classic Rock?

[Kahz]

NHL player Jay Harrison on Chinese Democracy:

Harrison’s all-time favorite is Guns N’ Roses, saying it was the iconic rock group that inspired him to begin playing guitar. He loves all the band’s work, even Chinese Democracy, an album that might have had the longest gestation of any in history and failed to live up to the hype. The critics were lukewarm about it, many calling it a multi-million dollar dud.

“The hype was that it was going to be the best record of all-time,” Harrison says. “Imagine facing that down and (front man Axl Rose) still put it out and I give him a lot of credit for that. He said, ‘This is what I’ve done and I’m proud of it. This is my record.’ That was ballsy.”

Living up to the hype is something Jay Harrison has a certain familiarity with. Like Axl Rose, he faced it down and here he is. And he’s all right with that.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/meet-jay-harrison-the-nhls-brainiest-blueliner/

Edited November 30, 2014 by Kahz

[hausofaxl]

I.R.S. !

[dalsh327]

CD suffered from the monumental hype and expectations attached to it. It could never live up to it

This is the biggest misperception repeated often on the forum. There was increasing chatter about the album over the years, not sure I'd call it hype as it was based mostly around the intrigue of the album taking so long and some crazy related rumors why(most reinforcing negative old impressions of Axl). It became a running joke and expectations amongst industry types and I'd say most fans was actually very low without the old band. A very large % of people expected him to either never release the album or, if he did, odds favored a pile of dung. People were holding his reported "I want to deliver the greatest album ever" over his head to make the awaited fall that much bigger. IMO, the generally low expectations is why the album was reviewed OK.

In the end he delivered exactly the album a realistic fan could expect--a wildly uneven record that did show occasional bits of Axl brilliance, but weighed down heavily by a collection of half baked ideas and over indulgence that went unchecked within the band(Ezrin was right, sorry Tommy). But if you're that into Axl, I can see why you'd dig it as the output screams Axl. It represents him perfectly.

Without getting too much into the live shows, I look at Oh My God, Madagascar at the VMAs and Silkworms as really being part of what deflated the ChiDem hype.

There's also the "15 million dollars" and not hearing an album that sounds like 15 million dollars, especially if the way you first heard those songs first were the leaks. When Axl's saying the leaks were "devastating", you have to feel somewhat bad because it makes people prematurely judge the songs or like the leaks more - but if he's already doing those songs live, I don't see why studio leaks of rough mixes would matter.

The band collaborated on the songs but it was assembled on a computer. I'm sure anyone who didn't know how to use Pro Tools before, could probably teach classes on it after making the album.

[Rovim]

I think Chinese Democracy is kinda overrated outside this forum. For an inconsistent album from an old LA rocker trying to mix Linkin Park guitars and beats with Elton John piano it gets way too much praise IMO.

I don't know. If you're into Axl's influences and some of the Guns elements and you can get over the fact Slash is not there anymore, which is a huge blow for the sound imo, there is some really good stuff there.

Half of the album at least is really easy to get into: Better, There Was A Time, Catcher, Street Of Dreams, I.R.S, Prostitute, and Madagascar.

Then you have the problematic stuff it seems: Chinese, Shackler's, Scraped, Sorry, This I Love, Riad, If The World.

I think it's a melting pot of what Axl liked and it's not a melting pot of what old Guns liked as a band, and Slash's unique guitar playing is not there to make it sound quite as "right" for many old Guns fans.

[magisme]

Surely music historians will look back at this article as the turning point for CD's resurrections and subsequent universal acclaim.

[Rovim]

Surely music historians will look back at this article as the turning point for CD's resurrections and subsequent universal acclaim.

Probably not, and not universal acclaim, but I think it will be more accepted in the future. In 15 to 20 years or so.

[RussTCB]

Surely music historians will look back at this article as the turning point for CD's resurrections and subsequent universal acclaim.

Probably not, and not universal acclaim, but I think it will be more accepted in the future. In 15 to 20 years or so.

mags loses his mind in 5...4...3....2...

[Turn_It_Up]

Surely music historians will look back at this article as the turning point for CD's resurrections and subsequent universal acclaim.

Probably not, and not universal acclaim, but I think it will be more accepted in the future. In 15 to 20 years or so.

More accepted by who? In 15-20 yrs, who do you really think is going to be giving more thought to CD?

It is what it is and will always be. A scattershot album with Axl's vocals clearly recorded over a very lengthy period of time and showing. When Axl said it's got a little something for everyone, I think he was right. Literally. The record mostly got fair and decent reviews--there is no big slight or travesty that will be made good in the future by music historians.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Turn_It_Up

[Turn_It_Up]

I think Chinese Democracy is kinda overrated outside this forum. For an inconsistent album from an old LA rocker trying to mix Linkin Park guitars and beats with Elton John piano it gets way too much praise IMO.

I think it's a melting pot of what Axl liked and it's not a melting pot of what old Guns liked as a band, and Slash's unique guitar playing is not there to make it sound quite as "right" for many old Guns fans.

I would agree with the latter part of your above sentence, but I'd also say the guitar playing was the strength of the album while Axl's lyrics and voice were the overall weakpoint with some exceptions.

It's hard to know whether Axl WANTED to make a melting pot album with "a little something for everyone" or whether than was the ultimate outcome of his not really ever deciding on a strong direction and throwing a mishmash of material together at the end. At least early on it seemed like Robin was his guy and musical muse for CD and I woulda preferred he stuck with a lead guitarist whether it be Robin or Bucket and had a strong collaboration throughout. As he added more and more guitarists, just seems like things started going in different directions with no real direction if you know what I mean. The result was some cool material or bits of material even within a song, but not at all cohesive and far more hit and miss than this record shoulda been.

But that all goes back to Axl as the conductor...

Edited November 30, 2014 by Turn_It_Up

[dalsh327]

Surely music historians will look back at this article as the turning point for CD's resurrections and subsequent universal acclaim.

Probably not, and not universal acclaim, but I think it will be more accepted in the future. In 15 to 20 years or so.

More accepted by who? In 15-20 yrs, who do you really think is going to be giving more thought to CD?

It is what it is and will always be. A scattershot album with Axl's vocals clearly recorded over a very lengthy period of time and showing. When Axl said it's got a little something for everyone, I think he was right. Literally. The record mostly got fair and decent reviews--there is no big slight or travesty that will be made good in the future by music historians.

We're talking about a band that still generates interest and controversy 25 years later, ChiDem's always going to shoehorn its way into the discussions about what happened after Slash left in years to come. The name has come to symbolize to future bands what not to do.

.

Does anyone care who the current lineup of the Moody Blues is? Was the world shocked when their flute player left a decade ago?

[Rovim]

Surely music historians will look back at this article as the turning point for CD's resurrections and subsequent universal acclaim.

Probably not, and not universal acclaim, but I think it will be more accepted in the future. In 15 to 20 years or so.

More accepted by who? In 15-20 yrs, who do you really think is going to be giving more thought to CD?

It is what it is and will always be. A scattershot album with Axl's vocals clearly recorded over a very lengthy period of time and showing. When Axl said it's got a little something for everyone, I think he was right. Literally. The record mostly got fair and decent reviews--there is no big slight or travesty that will be made good in the future by music historians.

Time changes the way we look at certain albums, and art in general. You can never really know when it's still fresh, what people will think about it in the future.

Chinese was an album that wasn't given a real chance by a large portion of it's target audience imo. That means a lot of old Guns fans did not give it an unbiased listen. Even a lot of critics didn't even talk about the music that much when it came out, but it got decent reviews anyway cause it's not a bad album. It's actually very good.

My point is there's a lot of baggage that came with this album, and the media loves to shit on Axl sometimes. All of that becomes less of a factor when 20 years passes by and people come back to it with a more objective ear.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Rovim

[Rovim]

I think Chinese Democracy is kinda overrated outside this forum. For an inconsistent album from an old LA rocker trying to mix Linkin Park guitars and beats with Elton John piano it gets way too much praise IMO.

I think it's a melting pot of what Axl liked and it's not a melting pot of what old Guns liked as a band, and Slash's unique guitar playing is not there to make it sound quite as "right" for many old Guns fans.

I would agree with the latter part of your above sentence, but I'd also say the guitar playing was the strength of the album while Axl's lyrics and voice were the overall weakpoint with some exceptions.

It's hard to know whether Axl WANTED to make a melting pot album with "a little something for everyone" or whether than was the ultimate outcome of his not really ever deciding on a strong direction and throwing a mishmash of material together at the end. At least early on it seemed like Robin was his guy and musical muse for CD and I woulda preferred he stuck with a lead guitarist whether it be Robin or Bucket and had a strong collaboration throughout. As he added more and more guitarists, just seems like things started going in different directions with no real direction if you know what I mean. The result was some cool material or bits of material even within a song, but not at all cohesive and far more hit and miss than this record shoulda been.

But that all goes back to Axl as the conductor...

I respectfully disagree. There was a clear guitar style that really worked with how Bucket's and Robin's guitars complemented each other. Axl said his intention was to create a melting pot, much like Appetite, and the 3 guitar players thing he stumbled upon gave him the chance to make something more interesting in his view, cause now you have 3 different guitar players with 3 different styles that can make it sound more varied. It also takes away from the experience in some aspects, but again, I think it worked well for what he was trying to do.

I think Axl's vocals are one of the best things about the album. He proved he could still do the vintage Axl vocals thing on Angel Down, but maybe he was trying to come up with a different style of singing for every song on Chinese.

Can you really say his There Was A Time vocals are weak? Riad? (technically speaking) Better?

The result, as I see it, was 14 songs where every song dictates different rules and stylistically, every song is very different at least in some ways from what came before or after it. So you can have This I Love with Better on the same album.

It's not an easy album to get into, and it's not really a commercial album like one of Slash's projects. With every listen you discover something new, and those types of albums have a good chance of at least being looked at again by listeners in the future like I've stated earlier.

Surely music historians will look back at this article as the turning point for CD's resurrections and subsequent universal acclaim.

Probably not, and not universal acclaim, but I think it will be more accepted in the future. In 15 to 20 years or so.

More accepted by who? In 15-20 yrs, who do you really think is going to be giving more thought to CD?

It is what it is and will always be. A scattershot album with Axl's vocals clearly recorded over a very lengthy period of time and showing. When Axl said it's got a little something for everyone, I think he was right. Literally. The record mostly got fair and decent reviews--there is no big slight or travesty that will be made good in the future by music historians.

We're talking about a band that still generates interest and controversy 25 years later, ChiDem's always going to shoehorn its way into the discussions about what happened after Slash left in years to come. The name has come to symbolize to future bands what not to do.

.

Does anyone care who the current lineup of the Moody Blues is? Was the world shocked when their flute player left a decade ago?

I was mad as hell. Banning flute playing on my street for years.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Rovim

[wasted]

I don't see why blanket production for an album is such a great thing. On UYI you can see it suits one song and not another. That is the norm, but is it the optimum? CD indulging every track and getting a diamond encrusted emotional massage really is cool. Long term it works better. But first listen its like wtf.

I like Nirvana/Faithno more/ Rage production. I mean why would you produce Korn meets Zombie like ACDC?

CD definitely brings up some interesting things about people's expectations for stadium rock bands. Methods of Mayhem were underrated.

[Rovim]

I don't see why blanket production for an album is such a great thing. On UYI you can see it suits one song and not another. That is the norm, but is it the optimum? CD indulging every track and getting a diamond encrusted emotional massage really is cool. Long term it works better. But first listen its like wtf.

I like Nirvana/Faithno more/ Rage production. I mean why would you produce Korn meets Zombie like ACDC?

CD definitely brings up some interesting things about people's expectations for stadium rock bands. Methods of Mayhem were underrated.

Because it hinders the consistent easy to get into vibe or mood people expect from such a primal style and approach old Guns provided.

The immediate payoff is not there, and in the specific case of Gn'R, people got used to getting it with Appetite especially. Many had problems with even UYI, but there was still enough meat and potatoes there to anchor the shit cause much of it was still traditional and the influences remained the same for that project.

Chinese was more ambitious. The ingredients were different. It's like you go to your favorite restaurant and they've replaced some of the cooks there, the food is still good, but it also contains new stuff which you hate, or never tried before, or it's just not what you were suppose to get in your head when you walked inside that day.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Rovim

[magisme]

Surely music historians will look back at this article as the turning point for CD's resurrections and subsequent universal acclaim.

Probably not, and not universal acclaim, but I think it will be more accepted in the future. In 15 to 20 years or so.

mags loses his mind in 5...4...3....2...

I'll hold back. It's not even worth debating. Absolutely laughable.

[wasted]

I don't think CD is much more ambitious it's just has some nu metal guitarists on the G side.

But yeah it's not hard rock. That Alt rock vibe doesn't make feel good. Like to Nevermind, Downward Spiral, Follow the Leader, Angel Dust, Holywood, Batle of Los Angeles then you might be up to go UFC over a King Cone but feeling like a badass, not really.

The best you can hope for from CD is to feel angsty and grand luxuriant in a hot tub of suicide girls.

At the end of the day Axl is not selling a product. I respect that but I still want to snort a huge off a strippers back. So I'm conflicted. I guess Body Talk is line friendly. Scraped is for the Ferrari to the airport afterwards. Why worry.

Edited December 1, 2014 by wasted

[Rovim]

I don't think CD is much more ambitious it's just has some nu metal guitarists on the G side.

But yeah it's not hard rock. That Alt rock vibe doesn't make feel good. Like to Nevermind, Downward Spiral, Follow the Leader, Angel Dust, Holywood, Batle of Los Angeles then you might be up to go UFC over a King Cone but feeling like a badass, not really.

The best you can hope for from CD is to feel angsty and grand luxuriant in a hot tub of suicide girls.

Axl is the center of Chinese Democracy. The music revolve around his melodies and lyrics. Even when somebody else came up with the initial song idea.

I think it's more ambitious compared to old Guns albums cause Axl had to incorporate new elements and try new things (for him) and get along musically with a lot more to write and produce such a detailed album.

It's more ambitious in the sense that it works on more then just one layer musically.

A good example is the attention to detail in This I Love: you can just listen to the orchestra track and it's like a song cause it's so rich musically. It's funny...many people really dislike that approach, but I feel like this was Axl's way of making it timeless without Slash: write a strong song, try everything you can possibly try musically, and then work on every note and every aspect of every note to create a Guns song that sounds really fresh, and yet retains some of the magic the old stuff had. That's very ambitious imo.

With the old shit, Axl was in his comfort zone kinda. Chinese, as an album, contains songs like Better and Catcher which were never done before in Guns land, and it combines many different styles. Like every song lives in it's own world and it was a bitch tying it all together.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Rovim

[magisme]

Should only be a spampost or two until they claim that every song on CD is an album unto itself. 14 NuGNR albums!!!