Do you believe Jesus existed?

[Dazey]

Is it ok to believe in God? Or is that politically incorrect at this point too?

Nah, just silly.

[DieselDaisy]

Yes, fact.

And the bible claims all sorts of unbelievable things attributed to Jesus from parting of Red Sea to the plagues of locust, the river turning to blood, etc.

It is a book of folklore with some historical facts woven in so unless you were there it is not a fact and there is no way to prove it was true or false.

But there is a way. By comparing the New Testament with other, none Christian, sources, Jesus Christ emerges as a real historic figure. Tacitus, Suetonius and Josephus all cite Jesus/Christ. We also have archaeological evidence of Pilate's prefecture of Judaea.

Anecdotal writings as all the individuals you mentioned were supposedly born after Jesus's death.

Also lets be honest the writings of the ancients are not original as their stories were written and rewritten by others throughout history. Who knows what changes and distortions were introduced as they were handed down over 2000 years of history. Do you really believe the Catholic church has not changed or modified the scriptures over the millennia to fit their own agenda?

I am not saying that the historical Jesus never existed I just dispute the notion that it is a proven fact.

Those three individuals were all writing long before Christianity became an accepted state religion. Also, how else can we explain the Pilate stone?

They still were not alive during Jesus's supposed lifetime so anything they wrote would be anecdotal based on what others told them and we have no way to verify the information they were given.

The Pilate stone does not mention Jesus only Pilate's name and again it is anecdotal as you are trying to prove Jesus existed based on the proof that Pilate likely existed which by the way there is no way to prove the exact date of the Pilate stone or if it is even authentic. it is believed authentic based on where it was found nothing more.

Again I am not saying historical Jesus did not exist. That is not my argument. I am arguing that it is not a "fact" as you and others are claiming but rather a supposition based on available historical evidence. We do not have conclusive proof that he existed so it cannot be considered a "fact".

Well if you a second guessing every individual, extent in every secondary bit of text, you can doubt anyone who has ever existed, did in actual fact exist, from most of recorded history! Outside of certain elite Romans, we have more evidence of Jesus's existence than we do for the mass majority of humans who existed from that era.

You are not an Anti-Stratfordians, are you? If there is one segment of humanity I despise more than atheists, it is Anti-Stratfordians.

The Pilate stone proves the prefecture of Pilate existed. If the New Testament writers did invent Jesus, they certainly did their homework, in getting their correct Roman governor. Why not just except the fact that Jesus of Nazareth did in fact exist.The dots all join if you do that.

''Richard III was in actual fact a ''good guy who was not hump backed - that is all Tudor propaganda''. Lo and behold, they dig up his skeleton a few years ago and what do they find? Curvature of the spine!!

[Bumblefeet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPoxpPkgUws

[Estranged Reality]

There's absolutely no evidence Jesus of the bible existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#Events_generally_accepted_as_historical

Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed, and most biblical scholars and classical historians see the theories of his non-existence as effectively refuted.

Go home TeeJay, you're drunk.

I was speaking of the character of Jesus from the bible, the water walking leper curing Jesus,

There's absolutely no evidence Jesus of the bible existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#Events_generally_accepted_as_historical

Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed, and most biblical scholars and classical historians see the theories of his non-existence as effectively refuted.

Go home TeeJay, you're drunk.

I was speaking of the character of Jesus from the bible, the water walking leper curing Jesus,

But the OP specifically stated he wasn't talking about the Jesus of the Bible -- just whether Jesus, as a person, existed. So...

[classicrawker]

Yes, fact.

And the bible claims all sorts of unbelievable things attributed to Jesus from parting of Red Sea to the plagues of locust, the river turning to blood, etc.

It is a book of folklore with some historical facts woven in so unless you were there it is not a fact and there is no way to prove it was true or false.

But there is a way. By comparing the New Testament with other, none Christian, sources, Jesus Christ emerges as a real historic figure. Tacitus, Suetonius and Josephus all cite Jesus/Christ. We also have archaeological evidence of Pilate's prefecture of Judaea.

Anecdotal writings as all the individuals you mentioned were supposedly born after Jesus's death.

Also lets be honest the writings of the ancients are not original as their stories were written and rewritten by others throughout history. Who knows what changes and distortions were introduced as they were handed down over 2000 years of history. Do you really believe the Catholic church has not changed or modified the scriptures over the millennia to fit their own agenda?

I am not saying that the historical Jesus never existed I just dispute the notion that it is a proven fact.

Those three individuals were all writing long before Christianity became an accepted state religion. Also, how else can we explain the Pilate stone?

They still were not alive during Jesus's supposed lifetime so anything they wrote would be anecdotal based on what others told them and we have no way to verify the information they were given.

The Pilate stone does not mention Jesus only Pilate's name and again it is anecdotal as you are trying to prove Jesus existed based on the proof that Pilate likely existed which by the way there is no way to prove the exact date of the Pilate stone or if it is even authentic. it is believed authentic based on where it was found nothing more.

Again I am not saying historical Jesus did not exist. That is not my argument. I am arguing that it is not a "fact" as you and others are claiming but rather a supposition based on available historical evidence. We do not have conclusive proof that he existed so it cannot be considered a "fact".

Well if you a second guessing every individual, extent in every secondary bit of text, you can doubt anyone who has ever existed, did in actual fact exist, from most of recorded history! Outside of certain elite Romans, we have more evidence of Jesus's existence than we do for the mass majority of humans who existed from that era.

You are not an Anti-Stratfordians, are you? If there is one segment of humanity I despise more than atheists, it is Anti-Stratfordians.

The Pilate stone proves the prefecture of Pilate existed. If the New Testament writers did invent Jesus, they certainly did their homework, in getting their correct Roman governor. Why not just except the fact that Jesus of Nazareth did in fact exist.The dots all join if you do that.

''Richard III was in actual fact a ''good guy who was not hump backed - that is all Tudor propaganda''. Lo and behold, they dig up his skeleton a few years ago and what do they find? Curvature of the spine!!

You are still not getting my point Diesel. I never said Jesus did not exist only that it is not a fact as the evidence is anecdotal. All evidence points to his existence but it is not conclusive to be able to claim fact.

And you despise atheists? really? not very tolerant or christian of you............

Edited March 3, 2015 by classicrawker

[Val22]

I believe that a man named Jesus existed and was considered a good and kind man. Not really sure if I believe he was God sent to earth in human form? I was raised Catholic, but had many questions about the bible which none of the nuns nor the priests would answer for me. They said I just had to believe. I guess I'm a person who has to see something to believe it.

either way, Jesus died thinking he was dying for man's sins, but considering the way the world is now, I think it was a lost cause.

Today so many people are killed for believing in different religions and faiths, so it seems Jesus dying was just the beginning.

[Snake-Pit]

I believe that a man named Jesus existed and was considered a good and kind man. Not really sure if I believe he was God sent to earth in human form? I was raised Catholic, but had many questions about the bible which none of the nuns nor the priests would answer for me. They said I just had to believe. I guess I'm a person who has to see something to believe it.

either way, Jesus died thinking he was dying for man's sins, but considering the way the world is now, I think it was a lost cause.

Today so many people are killed for believing in different religions and faiths, so it seems Jesus dying was just the beginning.

Fry: So what's the deal? You guys don't believe in Robot Jesus?

Rab-Bot: We believe he was built and that he was a very well programmed Robot. But he wasn't our Messiah.

[Gackt]

I believe in Yeezus

I just talked to Jesus

He said, "What up, Yeezus?"
I said, "Shit I'm chillin'
Tryna stack these millions"

[tomfriend]

Jesus never existed. Oh sure, there may have been a man alive in the era named Jesus Christ but the fact that the deeds ascribed to him are selectively cribbed from older religious prophets, besides being blatantly false to anyone with a 9th grade education (walking on water, water into wine, healing the sick through touch...seriously, grow the fuck up). Isn't it interesting how healers, prophets and shamen are routinely exposed as frauds, crooks, rapists and molesters these days...but I'm sure the one from a couple of thousand years back with no verifiable proof of any of his deeds was on the up and up. Oh yeah.

[Dr. Who]

If you're not an Atheist, does that make you uncool in 2015? If you believe there is some objective purpose to life should you be shunned? Should perhaps religious belief of any kind be outlawed down the line?

[Dazey]

Jesus never existed. Oh sure, there may have been a man alive in the era named Jesus Christ but the fact that the deeds ascribed to him are selectively cribbed from older religious prophets, besides being blatantly false to anyone with a 9th grade education (walking on water, water into wine, healing the sick through touch...seriously, grow the fuck up). Isn't it interesting how healers, prophets and shamen are routinely exposed as frauds, crooks, rapists and molesters these days...but I'm sure the one from a couple of thousand years back with no verifiable proof of any of his deeds was on the up and up. Oh yeah.

If he'd been around today he would've either been locked up or doing a 5 year residency at Caeser's Palace.

[Dr. Who]

Jesus never existed. Oh sure, there may have been a man alive in the era named Jesus Christ but the fact that the deeds ascribed to him are selectively cribbed from older religious prophets, besides being blatantly false to anyone with a 9th grade education (walking on water, water into wine, healing the sick through touch...seriously, grow the fuck up). Isn't it interesting how healers, prophets and shamen are routinely exposed as frauds, crooks, rapists and molesters these days...but I'm sure the one from a couple of thousand years back with no verifiable proof of any of his deeds was on the up and up. Oh yeah.

If he'd been around today he would've either been locked up or doing a 5 year residency at Caeser's Palace.

Why are Atheists so seemingly obsessed with Jesus and with religion in general?

Atheists claim to be more logical than theists, yet, a good chunk of an Atheist's mindset is to not "live and let live", but tear down religion (especially Christianity) or mock those who believe. For people who claim to be so comfortable in themselves because they lack religion, they certainly are bothered by the fact that people disagree with them.

[Lithium]

Because it is astonishing to us that there are actually people who believe in things like the talking snake and Noah's ark in 2015. Religion is detrimental to humanity.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Lithium

[Len Cnut]

If you're not an Atheist, does that make you uncool in 2015? If you believe there is some objective purpose to life should you be shunned? Should perhaps religious belief of any kind be outlawed down the line?

Why is it that you can't see beyond contemporary social climate? 'Is it cool, is it politically correct, is it in?'

[SoulMonster]

Sure I believe the most undeservingly hyped person ever existed

[Len Cnut]

Sure I believe the most undeservingly hyped person ever existed

Audley Harrison?

[tomfriend]

Jesus never existed. Oh sure, there may have been a man alive in the era named Jesus Christ but the fact that the deeds ascribed to him are selectively cribbed from older religious prophets, besides being blatantly false to anyone with a 9th grade education (walking on water, water into wine, healing the sick through touch...seriously, grow the fuck up). Isn't it interesting how healers, prophets and shamen are routinely exposed as frauds, crooks, rapists and molesters these days...but I'm sure the one from a couple of thousand years back with no verifiable proof of any of his deeds was on the up and up. Oh yeah.

If he'd been around today he would've either been locked up or doing a 5 year residency at Caeser's Palace.

Why are Atheists so seemingly obsessed with Jesus and with religion in general?

The same reason as you'd be obsessed with someone who shoved their dick down your throat when you were a kid and then spent the rest of your life trying to take half of your human rights away from you.

[Len Cnut]

Jesus never existed. Oh sure, there may have been a man alive in the era named Jesus Christ but the fact that the deeds ascribed to him are selectively cribbed from older religious prophets, besides being blatantly false to anyone with a 9th grade education (walking on water, water into wine, healing the sick through touch...seriously, grow the fuck up). Isn't it interesting how healers, prophets and shamen are routinely exposed as frauds, crooks, rapists and molesters these days...but I'm sure the one from a couple of thousand years back with no verifiable proof of any of his deeds was on the up and up. Oh yeah.

If he'd been around today he would've either been locked up or doing a 5 year residency at Caeser's Palace.

Why are Atheists so seemingly obsessed with Jesus and with religion in general?

Atheists claim to be more logical than theists, yet, a good chunk of an Atheist's mindset is to not "live and let live", but tear down religion (especially Christianity) or mock those who believe. For people who claim to be so comfortable in themselves because they lack religion, they certainly are bothered by the fact that people disagree with them.

Because religion is about the interesting human phenomena in the world. It's about the most discussed and debated thing out there and has been for century upon century, it ain't like atheist suddenly woke up and started some kind of trend.

[Len Cnut]

And here, hang on, why are they so fuckin' obssessed with atheists? I mean you can't get through a page of the Qu'ran or the Bible where they telling you whats gonna happen to you if you don't get salvation through God. A more aggressive man than myself might find that deeply offensive, the notion that if me and mine don't believe in your God then we're all going to hell. Think about that for a second, so my little 9 yr old niece who i love more than life itself, according to that belief, if she don't find Salvation through Christ, is gonna burn. It becomes complicated at that point to address the shit with respect.

[netcat]

Why are Atheists so seemingly obsessed with Jesus and with religion in general?

same reason why Christians were so obsessed with atheists\heretics\infidels that they felt the need to burn them at the stake. they're on the path of jihad

[Len Cnut]

Jesus never existed. Oh sure, there may have been a man alive in the era named Jesus Christ but the fact that the deeds ascribed to him are selectively cribbed from older religious prophets, besides being blatantly false to anyone with a 9th grade education (walking on water, water into wine, healing the sick through touch...seriously, grow the fuck up). Isn't it interesting how healers, prophets and shamen are routinely exposed as frauds, crooks, rapists and molesters these days...but I'm sure the one from a couple of thousand years back with no verifiable proof of any of his deeds was on the up and up. Oh yeah.

If he'd been around today he would've either been locked up or doing a 5 year residency at Caeser's Palace.

Those nails through my palms, cat o' nine tails up the arse, it's witchcraaaaft

[DieselDaisy]

Yes, fact.

And the bible claims all sorts of unbelievable things attributed to Jesus from parting of Red Sea to the plagues of locust, the river turning to blood, etc.

It is a book of folklore with some historical facts woven in so unless you were there it is not a fact and there is no way to prove it was true or false.

But there is a way. By comparing the New Testament with other, none Christian, sources, Jesus Christ emerges as a real historic figure. Tacitus, Suetonius and Josephus all cite Jesus/Christ. We also have archaeological evidence of Pilate's prefecture of Judaea.

Anecdotal writings as all the individuals you mentioned were supposedly born after Jesus's death.

Also lets be honest the writings of the ancients are not original as their stories were written and rewritten by others throughout history. Who knows what changes and distortions were introduced as they were handed down over 2000 years of history. Do you really believe the Catholic church has not changed or modified the scriptures over the millennia to fit their own agenda?

I am not saying that the historical Jesus never existed I just dispute the notion that it is a proven fact.

Those three individuals were all writing long before Christianity became an accepted state religion. Also, how else can we explain the Pilate stone?

They still were not alive during Jesus's supposed lifetime so anything they wrote would be anecdotal based on what others told them and we have no way to verify the information they were given.

The Pilate stone does not mention Jesus only Pilate's name and again it is anecdotal as you are trying to prove Jesus existed based on the proof that Pilate likely existed which by the way there is no way to prove the exact date of the Pilate stone or if it is even authentic. it is believed authentic based on where it was found nothing more.

Again I am not saying historical Jesus did not exist. That is not my argument. I am arguing that it is not a "fact" as you and others are claiming but rather a supposition based on available historical evidence. We do not have conclusive proof that he existed so it cannot be considered a "fact".

Well if you a second guessing every individual, extent in every secondary bit of text, you can doubt anyone who has ever existed, did in actual fact exist, from most of recorded history! Outside of certain elite Romans, we have more evidence of Jesus's existence than we do for the mass majority of humans who existed from that era.

You are not an Anti-Stratfordians, are you? If there is one segment of humanity I despise more than atheists, it is Anti-Stratfordians.

The Pilate stone proves the prefecture of Pilate existed. If the New Testament writers did invent Jesus, they certainly did their homework, in getting their correct Roman governor. Why not just except the fact that Jesus of Nazareth did in fact exist.The dots all join if you do that.

''Richard III was in actual fact a ''good guy who was not hump backed - that is all Tudor propaganda''. Lo and behold, they dig up his skeleton a few years ago and what do they find? Curvature of the spine!!

You are still not getting my point Diesel. I never said Jesus did not exist only that it is not a fact as the evidence is anecdotal. All evidence points to his existence but it is not conclusive to be able to claim fact.

And you despise atheists? really? not very tolerant or christian of you............

But what more would one need, to prove the existence of somebody who has lived? Photographic evidence, DNA sample? Using your theory, you would doubt everybody who has lived in human history.

There is something about atheism which seems to produce heightened levels of smugness and a sense of inflated intellectual superiority.

[Dazey]

But what more would one need, to prove the existence of somebody who has lived? Photographic evidence, DNA sample? Using your theory, you would doubt everybody who has lived in human history.

Suppose it depends on the supposed importance of the person and what you're using them as an excuse for in the modern day.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Dazey

[DieselDaisy]

You also have the New Testament, the gospels, epistles, etc. Now I know everyone is going to mention the 'inconsistencies' and Christian 'biases', but they cannot be completely dismissed. They are broadly historical, of a koine Graeco-Hebrew literary culture. The New Testament is precise and correct on certain geographical and socio-political particulars such as Roman taxation the the prefecture of Pilate (confirmed by the Pilate stone). Classicists, without any particular interest in Christianity, actually use The Bible as a historical source on cosmopolitan 'frontier culture', during the Roman empire. There is a wealth of important historical material there.

[Facekicker]

I'm an atheist. I believe there was a bloke named Jesus Christ crucified by the Romans. I don't believe any of his jiggery pokery magic malarky.

If someone wants to believe fine, makes as much sense to me as believing in a talking walnut but if it makes you happy off you go.

Just don't try and use your religious beliefs to shape the laws of the country I live in. Ah but that's exactly what is going on, despite the seperation of Church and State.

So don't act so surprised when people push back against your fairytales.