Tobias?

[Nosaj Thing]

If Slash would have brought in his high school buddy and told Axl "Dude, this guy is our new guitar player. Deal with it." You don't think Axl would have thrown a huge fit? You think Axl would have said "Sure, that sounds great. None of the rest of the band deserves a say in the matter. I'll just accept whatever guy you personally pick. This guy is your pal from 10th grade? Sounds perfect."

But, it's kind of what happened when Gilby joined Guns after Matt. I think that Axl was bitter and full of anger (as always) and saw the four of them (Slash, Duff, Matt and Gilby) as his enemies trying to take over Guns. It would explain why Gilby was fired without giving him the chance to write a record or a song with them. I don't think Gilby was the new Izzy Stradlin by any means, but his 1994 album "Pawnshop Guitars" is great. I guess crybaby Axl wanted more of "his" friends, instead of "Slash's friends" around.

[wasted]

I think Axl wanted someone to write with. Slash said he wasn't interested in Axl's songs.

If Slash had got in with Axl and helped him out, then maybe Gilby wouldn't have been released.

Seems like they should have kept Gilby and Tobias. Done the Snakepit material as Slash wanted and Axl/Tobias material.

[Apollo]

I think Axl wanted someone to write with. Slash said he wasn't interested in Axl's songs.

If Slash had got in with Axl and helped him out, then maybe Gilby wouldn't have been released.

Seems like they should have kept Gilby and Tobias. Done the Snakepit material as Slash wanted and Axl/Tobias material.

I also think that some of you guys give way too much credence to the idea that Slash flatly refused to play any of the songs that Axl brought to the table and that he flatly told Axl to shut up and sing and that he couldn't change one note of any of Slash's song ideas. I doubt it was that black and white.

That just doesn't sound remotely reasonable. And wouldn't that also piss off Duff, Matt and Gilby? None of those guys wouldn't have told Slash he was being unreasonable?

The more logical explanation is the band - sans Axl - wrote and practiced together while Axl never showed up to help out. And then the occasional 2 AM appearance or fax dictating the changes he wanted, the band was probably like "f*ck you. Come practice and write with us then you can make changes."

The more logical explanation is the band was tired of Axl's shit. And Axl was mad the band didn't bow down and do whatever he told them.

Like Slash once famously said about 20 years ago - Axl views Guns n Roses as his solo band.

[DR DOOM]

I also think that some of you guys give way too much credence to the idea that Slash flatly refused to play any of the songs that Axl brought to the table and that he flatly told Axl to shut up and sing and that he couldn't change one note of any of Slash's song ideas. I doubt it was that black and white.

That just doesn't sound remotely reasonable. And wouldn't that also piss off Duff, Matt and Gilby? None of those guys wouldn't have told Slash he was being unreasonable?

The more logical explanation is the band - sans Axl - wrote and practiced together while Axl never showed up to help out. And then the occasional 2 AM appearance or fax dictating the changes he wanted, the band was probably like "f*ck you. Come practice and write with us then you can make changes."

The more logical explanation is the band was tired of Axl's shit. And Axl was mad the band didn't bow down and do whatever he told them.

Like Slash once famously said about 20 years ago - Axl views Guns n Roses as his solo band.

EXACTLY.

The idea that Slash didn't want ANY input from Axl is ridiculous, because Slash of all people knows/knew how good it can be...obviously what he didn't want was the lengthy, developmental hell that they'd just endured with creating the UYI albums.

And seeing how it was around 12 years until Axl finally got his album out, I think that concern was wholly legitimate.

[wasted]

I think Axl wanted someone to write with. Slash said he wasn't interested in Axl's songs.

If Slash had got in with Axl and helped him out, then maybe Gilby wouldn't have been released.

Seems like they should have kept Gilby and Tobias. Done the Snakepit material as Slash wanted and Axl/Tobias material.

I also think that some of you guys give way too much credence to the idea that Slash flatly refused to play any of the songs that Axl brought to the table and that he flatly told Axl to shut up and sing and that he couldn't change one note of any of Slash's song ideas. I doubt it was that black and white.

That just doesn't sound remotely reasonable. And wouldn't that also piss off Duff, Matt and Gilby? None of those guys wouldn't have told Slash he was being unreasonable?

The more logical explanation is the band - sans Axl - wrote and practiced together while Axl never showed up to help out. And then the occasional 2 AM appearance or fax dictating the changes he wanted, the band was probably like "f*ck you. Come practice and write with us then you can make changes."

The more logical explanation is the band was tired of Axl's shit. And Axl was mad the band didn't bow down and do whatever he told them.

Like Slash once famously said about 20 years ago - Axl views Guns n Roses as his solo band.

Slash said he didn't want anything to do with Axls ballads.

Duff agreed with Axl that the Snakepit record wasn't ready as a GNR record.

But I don't think they all have this fuck you attitude to everything. It happened over a few years. It's normal to argue about this stuff. Remember Slash saying how it was going to be great record. We only found out about UYI friction years later.

So as much as maybe Slash didn't mean he wouldn't work with Axl on his songs, Axl would really come round in the end. It's just the nightmare you have to go through.

In there is maybe why Slash left. Doesn't want to do Axls songs, wants to do his songs his way, isn't that into Axls industrial talk. Sees there's going to be no end to it. Axl doesn't come to studio but Tobias is here. Fuck this. It makes sense especially as he said he was considering suicide.

[DieselDaisy]

Atlas Shrugged should be on an EP. Also, Prostitute sounds like Britney remixed by Paul McCartney.

[wasted]

I think they stole the drums for Prostitute from Unfinished Sympathy by Massive Attack and the strings from Bittersweet Symphony by Verve.

[Nosaj Thing]

Seems like they should have kept Gilby and Tobias. Done the Snakepit material as Slash wanted and Axl/Tobias material.

After all the nonsensical shit you type in this forum, this actually makes sense. It sounds fair enough to all parties involved.

[DieselDaisy]

I could write wasted posts all day. Just get stoned and post the most unlikeliest analogies concerning Chinese Democracy's songs. ''It is Pearl Jam remixed by Mario Lanza''.

[wasted]

Are you saying it's hard to hate Axl all day?

I'd rather be wasted.

[Padme]

I think Axl wanted someone to write with. Slash said he wasn't interested in Axl's songs.

If Slash had got in with Axl and helped him out, then maybe Gilby wouldn't have been released.

Seems like they should have kept Gilby and Tobias. Done the Snakepit material as Slash wanted and Axl/Tobias material.

No it was the opposite. Axl didn´t want to write with anyone. He wanted people to write on their own. Then he would pick a song here and there to add industrial and electronic fart noise with a producer like Moby.

[wasted]

Axl claimed he didn't want Gilby because he couldn't write with him.

Not saying I know what actually happened. But Axl and Tobias wrote IRS, TWAT, Catcher, Prostitute.

I think they had the money and time to do both.

Axl was probably hoping Slash would bring in another Coma.

[Padme]

Axl claimed he didn't want Gilby because he couldn't write with him.

Not saying I know what actually happened. But Axl and Tobias wrote IRS, TWAT, Catcher, Prostitute.

I think they had the money and time to do both.

Axl was probably hoping Slash would bring in another Coma.

Those songs you mentioned are not exatcly the most memorable songs by GN´R. The general public don´t give a fuck about them, only some die hard fans call them a masterpiece.

If Axl wanted another Coma then he should´ve worked together with Slash to make it

[wasted]

Slash brought Coma and Locomotive in basically done.

It's not for me to say if the songs are good, you were just saying Axl didn't write with anyone.

Maybe can't write with means didn't come up with anything I want to sing on or work up.

Seems like on UYI they Slash, Izzy, Duff wrote a lot of songs that Axl just added lyrics vocals to.

Axl wanted collaboration, I'm not sure if he actually contributed musically. But he seems to like to take parts he likes and fit them together. Maybe that is annoying always getting put in Axls blender?

Edited May 27, 2015 by wasted

[wkuk04]

I hear Axl & Slash are sworn keepers of the Nightwatch.

[Nosaj Thing]

I hear Axl & Slash are sworn keepers of the Nightwatch.

"You know nothing, Axl Rose." Sounds aight to me!

[Padme]

Slash brought Coma and Locomotive in basically done.

It's not for me to say if the songs are good, you were just saying Axl didn't write with anyone.

Maybe can't write with means didn't come up with anything I want to sing on or work up.

Seems like on UYI they Slash, Izzy, Duff wrote a lot of songs that Axl just added lyrics vocals to.

Axl wanted collaboration, I'm not sure if he actually contributed musically. But he seems to like to take parts he likes and fit them together. Maybe that is annoying always getting put in Axls blender?

The experiment in Chicago back in 1990 didn´t go very well. And Slash says in his book that some of the songs from the UYI were done by all of them together at his house.

Yes Slash could come up with a few songs on his own. But Axl can´t go around like "Hey dude bring me songs" and expect Slash and others to answer "Sir, yes sir" all the time.

[wasted]

Well, that's kind of their job. Axl supposedly didn't do much music on AFD if any. They did it on UYI but Axl also had his material.

I think on UYI you can see its basically Izzy songs with Slash playing it or adding something. Without that there's not many cool songs. It's like heavy stuff from Slash and Axl songs. The engine is gone without Izzy, not as much as a band.

Slash songs were Garden of Eden, Dont Damn Me, locomotive, Coma. He didn't write the hits on UYI.

Obviously Axl wrote a few. Wes and Del contributed. Duff has two songs.

Axl got a lot of help from Slash on his songs which just didn't happen later. He didn't want to.

Considering they didn't have Izzy songs, to reject each others material is suicide.

I think what you're saying is the balance of power had changed. Axl had more songs and Slash didn't really want to do them. He wanted to do Snakepit and get back to rocking. But Axl had this grand vision just go bigger than UYI, take on new influences.

So I don't get the Axl doesn't go to the studio much. They never needed him before. Axl could have sung on Snakepit material and some of it could of worked. Maybe Slash could have helped with TIL or the Seymour ballads. That would be a record.

They talk about Tobias but if Axl had accepted Slashs material and Slash helped Axl there was a record.

Maybe Axl was trying to compensate for no Izzy by working with Tobias. Slash probably saw that as just enabling Axl to work without him, so he was losing his grip on the record. He wanted what he wanted and in the end didn't want to work with Axl anymore.

That's just how I see it from what I've read. Just impressions, it's probably nothing like that. Maybe Axl was just power crazy. Like Niven said he talks to people in a certain way. I can see Axl making a huge entrance to the studio and just taking over. Nah, were doing this or that. Axl talking a lot and Slash just being like this is bullshit. I can imagine that. So what is easy to say like just help him is actually not that attractive. Be Axls bitch for the record. It just seems though when Axl was happy the stuff they did was pretty good. It's like do you want to be in GNR or go solo? They went solo.

Edited May 27, 2015 by wasted

[Bards]

I think Axl wanted someone to write with. Slash said he wasn't interested in Axl's songs.

If Slash had got in with Axl and helped him out, then maybe Gilby wouldn't have been released.

Seems like they should have kept Gilby and Tobias. Done the Snakepit material as Slash wanted and Axl/Tobias material.

I also think that some of you guys give way too much credence to the idea that Slash flatly refused to play any of the songs that Axl brought to the table and that he flatly told Axl to shut up and sing and that he couldn't change one note of any of Slash's song ideas. I doubt it was that black and white.

Slash wouldn't let Axl suggest lyrics and melodies, but he would let Eric Dover. Sure, that passes the smell test.

[tinyrobot]

but Bumblefoot said in 2007 when he used to come into gnrevolution chats that he's never met Tobias.

Because he doesn't exist. It's an alter ego of one redhead we know.

He does exist and the majority of people on this forum know exactly where he is kept...

The vault is another non-existant entity. Therefore, Tobias doesn't exist.

[Rovim]

Scroll down a little for some quotes about Tobias.

http://www.a-4-d.com/t140-paul-tobias

[GUNNER PT]

Imagine your wife telling you that from now on you're all going to share the bed with her personal trainer...are you childish and immature if you object to this smug cock fucking your wife?

Axl wasn't Slash's wife ... and Tobias wasn't Axl's personal trainer ... so, it's a quite absurd analogy.

I think you missed the "overreaction" part ...

Gunner doesn't really believe in what he posts. Stiring shit, absolutely.

You made a question. I replied to your question ... I gave you the answer you wanted, you clearly wanted me to reply something like that ... so, what are you complaining about?

Clearly, you were only stirring (not stiring) shit when you made that question ...

Unbelievable as it might seem, I really do think that GPT and WK believe what they post.

That's a genial conclusion... And you? Don't you believe in what you post?

I'm just posting ... that's it. If you want to discuss my posts, that's fine. Complaining about me, as a poster, won't make your posts look more valid than mine.

If Slash would have brought in his high school buddy and told Axl "Dude, this guy is our new guitar player. Deal with it." You don't think Axl would have thrown a huge fit? You think Axl would have said "Sure, that sounds great. None of the rest of the band deserves a say in the matter. I'll just accept whatever guy you personally pick. This guy is your pal from 10th grade? Sounds perfect."

Did Axl ever said "Dude, this guy is our new guitar player. Deal with it."?

Like Slash once famously said about 20 years ago - Axl views Guns n Roses as his solo band.

It can't be true ... Slash never talked shit about Axl.

I sincerely think that he just don't know English well enough to share his thoughts correctly.

^^^ Actually, this is not that far from the truth.

---

On topic ...

Tobias wasn't only Axl's friend ... Tobias was a long time contributor for GN'R songs (like it or not). If I'm not wrong he was there way before Slash ... didn't he co-wrote Shadow of Your Love?

The truth is, Tobias was around since the begining ... I never heard anyone, before Slash, complaining about him or about playing "his" songs. Slash was the first (and only?) one who came to the press saying "I hate that guy" ... "hate" ... "HATE". He used the power of his public image to attack a "nobody", who had no chance to defend himself in the press (let's be reasonable, no one nor the press gives a fck about what Tobias has to say), and didn't even explained why he hated that guy so much, letting the public think that guy is the devil.

Guys, would you play a song composed by someone you HATE? Why did Slash play Tobias's songs for years? That's weird ...

Tobias is a quite misterious character ... the truth is, we don't know much about him. So, let me speculate a bit: From what I saw in RIR3, considering the way he left the band and from what Axl said about his departure ... looks like the guy it's quite reserved. Looks like he never wanted to be in a big band, doing world tours and stuff like that ... somehow, like Izzy. Axl was his friend and he surely knew that. So, it is hard to believe that Axl could had brought Tobias into the band to be a full time member.

I see the SFTD case, as a chance Axl found to let Tobias (someone who already contributed before, but never had a chance to show himself) be in GN'R record as a guest.They had other guests before (like Alice; Mike and Shanoon), singing with Axl and he never had a problem with that ... a real prima dona would like to shine alone. Slash showed who was a real diva ... he had a tantrum because he didn't want anyone near him who could put him in the shadow ... he didn't want to work with Zakk, because there was no room for 2 guitar heros ... he didn't want to play with Tobias because he was Axl's friend ... he can only stand the idea of having near him people with low profile, like Gilby or Myles, so he can shine alone ...

How many times Axl let the others shine on stage? How many times Slash does the same? ... it's quite obvious what's going on ...

Probably I will be misunderstood again, but, whatever ... can't wait to see people telling I'm defending Axl or (lol) Tobias ... I couldn't care less about Tobias and Axl doesn't need me to be his lawyer. In a matter of fact, I think Axl should never had brought Tobias into the band without the agreement of the others, even if it was only something temporary. BUT ... the truth is, this isn't a reasonable motive for Slash leaving the band ... leaving the band was the easy, coward and childish way to deal with the situation ... truth is the truth hurts ...

[Rovim]

"Paul helps out all the time and IS ON A LOT MORE MATERIAL. Paul helped get a lot of the base credits etc together which were extensive. He's always had a good memory on that stuff and it's generally important to him to be as ethical as he's capable which is invaluable" - Axl [chinesedemocracy.com, December 13, 2008]

Seems like CD ll, if released, will probably or possibly contain at least a few more songs that Paul was responsible for writing.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Rovim

[maynard]

Tobias is a mediocre musician. He was brought in for the sole reason of being Axl's friend. That's ridiculous. You can read on that page Rovim posted that Duff was annoyed by him as well. Slash was very polite dealing with such a shitty move from Adolf Axl.

[BreakDown2014]

Tobias is a mediocre musician. He was brought in for the sole reason of being Axl's friend. That's ridiculous. You can read on that page Rovim posted that Duff was annoyed by him as well. Slash was very polite dealing with such a shitty move from Adolf Axl.

He's a very good songwriter it seems