any word on Steven

[Asia]

It's true that not only composers and writers are important to the band. There are many other things in which a musician can be important. They can have great ideas regarding the image, the promotion, the direction in which the band should go... Steven did neither of this. They can be very hard working, do the promotion, hang the posters, sell the tickets, look for promoters, whatever - Steven did neither of this. They can have great orchestrating skills, be good negotiators that keep the band on schedule and together - Steven wasn't that person. Finally they can be the ones who developed the great and unique sound on their instrument - it isn't entirely true about Steven either (the others had to change his drum kit while he was away and hide one of the drums so that he would sound like he eventually sounded), so even the sound of his drums is not entirely his achievement.

Steven liked partying and having many chicks, that was his major contribution and that is according to his own words. I agree he looked great behind the drumkit, his enthusiasm and joy fit the band image perfectly and the sound of his drums on Appetite was unique. But let's not forget it wasn't even entirely his to begin with. And it mostly fits one record. Not sure how it would sound on the others, we'll never know cause he was too fucked up to even try and come up with something.  And other than the drums on one album he had no contribution of any kind to the band. So let's just not exaggerate and overestimate his role.

 

[timkerr37]

I dont understand why people are continuously saying Adler only played on Appetite/can only play the Appetite parts and not the Illusion parts.  What about Lies and Live like a Suicide.  Also, everyone mentions Civil war.  BUT (although he didnt record the songs on Illusions) he did play on many of the songs (eg Back off Bitch, Live and Let die etc) as they were playing them in their live shows even before Appetite was recorded!  I wonder how many of the songs on The illusion albums  Adler did play on just didnt record!

 

Also is it just me or does anyone think Adlers Back from the Dead would be a great GNR song with Axl signing it?

Edited February 12, 2016 by timkerr37
Text edit

[stella]

54 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Nah. Steven is just a footnote in the history of GN'R. He is only featured on one of their records and then only as the drummer. He admittedly laid down some cool beats but as far as we know didn't take any other part in the creative process (except probably hollering some suggestions for that early version of the PC chorus). If we are to bring back an old drummer I'd much rather it was Josh or Brain, who would be much better for newer material. I'd like to see Steven play maybe one song on one show, purely for his own sake and maybe to finally bring him som closure, but beyond that he is just a liability.

Ditto. It's pretty weak to say "anyone who doesn't like Steven/doesn't think he should be there obviously wasn't around." I WAS around. I remember watching how the band became big with AfD, and getting flak for wearing the cross shirt to school when nobody knew who the hell they were. I attended the UYI tour. I've even been to one of Steven's band's shows. It doesn't mean I'm tied to some rigid idea of what the band's lineup should be.

The band had a life both before and after Steven. Steven's burned his own bridges in the years since he was fired. If GnR doesn't want to take a risk with him, that's their prerogative.

Edited February 12, 2016 by stella

[DieselDaisy]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Nah. Steven is just a footnote in the history of GN'R. He is only featured on one of their records and then only as the drummer. He admittedly laid down some cool beats but as far as we know didn't take any other part in the creative process (except probably hollering some suggestions for that early version of the PC chorus). If we are to bring back an old drummer I'd much rather it was Josh or Brain, who would be much better for newer material. I'd like to see Steven play maybe one song on one show, purely for his own sake and maybe to finally bring him som closure, but beyond that he is just a liability.

 

Totally disagree.

It is with Izzy Stradlin of course where the real summary of Adler's contribution resides,

Quote

''Adler's drumming made the band, he made a big musical difference.  His sense of swing was the push and pull that gave the songs their feel.  Afterwards, nothing worked ''

Izzy Stradlin, Guitar World, November 1992

 

Edited February 12, 2016 by DieselDaisy

[DieselDaisy]

PS

Discography with Adler,

Appetite for Destruction (1987)

Live ?!*@ Like a Suicide (1986) / G N' R Lies (1988)

Live from the Jungle (Japan; 1988)

Use Your Illusion II (1991; "Civil War" only)

Live Era: '87-'93 (1999)

Further, from my estimates Adler played approximately 240 gigs for Guns N' Roses - Matt played 194. Let us not ignore the more emotive factor that Adler was the drummer during the period when Guns rose in prominence, nurturing a live following, signing with a record company, gaining a number one hit, playing the Ritz for MTV, etc. Appetite is by far GN'R's greatest, most iconic album. Even speaking objectively, Illusion failed to similarly resonate with the masses and is now seen as a flawed production. Fundamentally, Adler was the drummer during their formative period and rise to stardom - you are never going to remove that fact.

[Braxon Raine]

Probably nothing, but... Adler has apparently scheduled a show at (of all places) the Whiskey on Sunset Strip about a week before the Vegas shows.  Wouldn't it be awesome if the rest of the gang showed up with him for a "warm up" gig back where it all began?

Edited February 12, 2016 by Braxon Raine

[Tom-Ass]

 

28 minutes ago, Braxon Raine said:

Probably nothing, but... Adler has apparently scheduled a show at (of all places) the Whiskey on Sunset Strip about a week before the Vegas shows.  Wouldn't it be awesome if the rest of the gang showed up with him for a "warm up" gig back where it all began?

I doubt it but you never know.  I bet there will be a little more eyes watching his show though than usually with all that is going on.. Maybe a little more media coverage than there normally would be..  Questions will be asked for sure.

[SoulMonster]

4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Totally disagree.

It is with Izzy Stradlin of course where the real summary of Adler's contribution resides,

Izzy Stradlin, Guitar World, November 1992

 

Izzy is free to have his own opinions on Steven's importance, just like everyone else is. I happen to think GN'R worked well even after Steven was fired, and disagree completely with Izzy's claim that "nothing worked". I enjoyed GN'R with Matt and I have enjoyed GN'R with other drummers. I might agree that Steven brought something special, a uniqie swing, but I don't agree at all with Izzy's overly dramatic description that Steven leaving was more or less the end of GN'R. I, like most others, feel that Steven's contributions were insignificant to Axl's and Slash's and that AFD would have been a great record without Steven, too. But nothing wrong in having a greater love for his drumming contribution than what most people have. We all like what we like. But arguing that just because you happen to have an exaggerated (compared to most people) love for Steven's drumming on AFD then he should be entitled to play in the new lineup of GN'R, is a bit too much for me.

[SoulMonster]

4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Further, from my estimates Adler played approximately 240 gigs for Guns N' Roses - Matt played 194. Let us not ignore the more emotive factor that Adler was the drummer during the period when Guns rose in prominence, nurturing a live following, signing with a record company, gaining a number one hit, playing the Ritz for MTV, etc. Appetite is by far GN'R's greatest, most iconic album. Even speaking objectively, Illusion failed to similarly resonate with the masses and is now seen as a flawed production. Fundamentally, Adler was the drummer during their formative period and rise to stardom - you are never going to remove that fact.

You are moving the goalposts. No one is saying that he wasn't part of the important period and featured on their greatest record. I am arguing against the claim that he was very important for that lineup's success, that without him they wouldn't suceed, somehow, and as such he should be part of the new lineup. I disagree strongly with that.

But please go on praising his stunning ability to through nothing but pure luck getting to be part of a very iconic rock and roll band inwhich he had very little creative input and ended up being fired due to wasting it all away on drugs.

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Izzy is free to have his own opinions on Steven's importance, just like everyone else is. I happen to think GN'R worked well even after Steven was fired, and disagree completely with Izzy's claim that "nothing worked". I enjoyed GN'R with Matt and I have enjoyed GN'R with other drummers. I might agree that Steven brought something special, a uniqie swing, but I don't agree at all with Izzy's overly dramatic description that Steven leaving was more or less the end of GN'R. I, like most others, feel that Steven's contributions were insignificant to Axl's and Slash's and that AFD would have been a great record without Steven, too. But nothing wrong in having a greater love for his drumming contribution than what most people have. We all like what we like. But arguing that just because you happen to have an exaggerated (compared to most people) love for Steven's drumming on AFD then he should be entitled to play in the new lineup of GN'R, is a bit too much for me.

No offense but I think Izzy Stradlin is more privy to the inner workings of Guns N' Roses. His opinion is reinforced by comments by Slash and Duff,

Quote

[Guns N Roses] already went wrong when original drummer Steven Adler was kicked out of the band.  Because Steven was gone, Izzy also [eventually] left. But we had a whole tour planned so we kept the whole thing going.  When it was time to record a new album, though, we missed those guys a lot. Look, nothing was right about our little band, but we were very successful.  Without Steven and Izzy, though, it really turned into Axl's trip.

Slash, Aloha magazine, June 8, 2004

Quote

What made Steven hard to replace was his sense of groove.

-- Duff, It's so Easy

[DieselDaisy]

7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

You are moving the goalposts. No one is saying that he wasn't part of the important period and featured on their greatest record. I am arguing against the claim that he was very important for that lineup's success, that without him they wouldn't suceed, somehow, and as such he should be part of the new lineup. I disagree strongly with that.

But please go on praising his stunning ability to through nothing but pure luck getting to be part of a very iconic rock and roll band inwhich he had very little creative input and ended up being fired due to wasting it all away on drugs.

I disagree with that statement. You only need to look at Adler's contemporaries: Tommy Lee, Eric Carr, Rikki Rocket, the Bay Area drummers, e.g, Ulrich, Lombardo. Every other drummer was a big basher. There was no other drummer who employed a rhythmic approach, as, Steven did on that album. If Adler did not arrive, GN'R would have had a big basher like every other band. This would have completely changed the style of Appetite. Would it have been still successful? Possibly, but it would be a very different album, a lot more 'metal'.

Edited February 12, 2016 by DieselDaisy

[emybdc]

9 hours ago, vloors said:

Also remember this Adler interview from a few months back when he discusses why slash and duff now dislike him. Btw he sounds again fd up in it 

 

He sounds like that cause he's had a stroke, not because he's on anything. It's been widely reported he's been sober for a while now. In that interview Trunk says he was at a concert Steve played a few days prior and said he kicked ass.

[maxpax]

4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

PS

Discography with Adler,

Appetite for Destruction (1987)

Live ?!*@ Like a Suicide (1986) / G N' R Lies (1988)

Live from the Jungle (Japan; 1988)

Use Your Illusion II (1991; "Civil War" only)

Live Era: '87-'93 (1999)

Further, from my estimates Adler played approximately 240 gigs for Guns N' Roses - Matt played 194. Let us not ignore the more emotive factor that Adler was the drummer during the period when Guns rose in prominence, nurturing a live following, signing with a record company, gaining a number one hit, playing the Ritz for MTV, etc. Appetite is by far GN'R's greatest, most iconic album. Even speaking objectively, Illusion failed to similarly resonate with the masses and is now seen as a flawed production. Fundamentally, Adler was the drummer during their formative period and rise to stardom - you are never going to remove that fact.

Lets make it even easier. Steven and matt have more uniqueness in their playing than Frank Ferrer. So there is actually no reason to keep Frank.

[Modano09]

 

9 minutes ago, emybdc said:

He sounds like that cause he's had a stroke, not because he's on anything. It's been widely reported he's been sober for a while now. In that interview Trunk says he was at a concert Steve played a few days prior and said he kicked ass.

Widely reported by who? He always says he's a couple of months sober. 

And even if he's sober now I wouldn't bet on him getting through a tour sober. He seems like someone who will think it's re-living the old days because it's really all he's ever had and he's been waiting 25 years for it to happen.

[cooker]

14 minutes ago, emybdc said:

He sounds like that cause he's had a stroke, not because he's on anything. It's been widely reported he's been sober for a while now. In that interview Trunk says he was at a concert Steve played a few days prior and said he kicked ass.

I don't think the drug thing is an issue at a moment. However, he did not seem to be in a good place at the time of this interview. I think his relative silence is a good thing though. 

[stella]

12 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

 

Widely reported by who? He always says he's a couple of months sober. 

And even if he's sober now I wouldn't bet on him getting through a tour sober. He seems like someone who will think it's re-living the old days because it's really all he's ever had and he's been waiting 25 years for it to happen.

 

As someone else here said on another post, he's been "six months sober" for 20 years now. And that's not a criticism, it's just reality. He's been unable to sustain sobriety for any significant length of time, even after his stroke, which is probably one reason why bands have declined to hire him. His sobriety is probably far more fragile than that of the others, and the pressures of a major tour, with access to anything he would want, probably wouldn't help that.

Edited February 12, 2016 by stella

[emybdc]

5 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

Widely reported by who? He always says he's a couple of months sober. 

And even if he's sober now I wouldn't bet on him getting through a tour sober. He seems like someone who will think it's re-living the old days because it's really all he's ever had and he's been waiting 25 years for it to happen.

Of course, who else would know he was sober if not himself? I mean, he is a flight risk, but excluding him from the reunion because might do drugs again doesn't make much sense because well, he might not. And I agree with everybody who already highlighted his contribution to the band here (slash, duff and izzy included).

 

2 minutes ago, cooker said:

I don't think the drug thing is an issue at a moment. However, he did not seem to be in a good place at the time of this interview. I think his relative silence is a good thing though. 

He's very sentimental, he's always talked like that about GnR in interviews. I've read one where he said he still loved Axl and hoped he could get a hug from him someday. He knows he screwed up big when they were at the top.

[cooker]

11 minutes ago, emybdc said:

Of course, who else would know he was sober if not himself? I mean, he is a flight risk, but excluding him from the reunion because might do drugs again doesn't make much sense because well, he might not. And I agree with everybody who already highlighted his contribution to the band here (slash, duff and izzy included).

 

He's very sentimental, he's always talked like that about GnR in interviews. I've read one where he said he still loved Axl and hoped he could get a hug from him someday. He knows he screwed up big when they were at the top.

It's true. I just think during this interview he was hearing the rumours and not hearing anything from he others and he was flipping out. 

[Estranged1]

I said it before and I'm still sticking to it, Steven and Matt must both in (in some capacity).  Otherwise they have zero reason to stay quiet.  Steven would be piping off left and right and Matt would be talking.

[Rovim]

8 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

8 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Surely it is nothing more than a metronome?

 

Surely it is nothing more than a metronome?

 

It's not your fault. Many people are drum deaf. The tunes would have sounded completely different with any other drummer. Even with the same exact parts played. This is why Axl used Brain. He appreciated his feel, but he wanted to use the drum parts Josh came up with cause they were already what he wanted. But these are 2 different things.

Steven had everything a Gn'R drummer must have. In every song he played, it sounds great. His feel and the drum parts that are lyrical. Sorum proved how important Steven was.

[Tom-Ass]

1 hour ago, stella said:

 

As someone else here said on another post, he's been "six months sober" for 20 years now. And that's not a criticism, it's just reality. He's been unable to sustain sobriety for any significant length of time, even after his stroke, which is probably one reason why bands have declined to hire him. His sobriety is probably far more fragile than that of the others, and the pressures of a major tour, with access to anything he would want, probably wouldn't help that.

Slash was still pretty fucked up not too long ago.. It took shim decades to truly get off the shit. He was still shooting up in VR..

[trqster]

Adler (or any other Gn'R drummer) is a non-issue for 99% of the fans out there and an issue for the vast majority of the hard-core fans over here. That's just the way it is. 

[bigpoop]

10 hours ago, timkerr37 said:

I dont understand why people are continuously saying Adler only played on Appetite/can only play the Appetite parts and not the Illusion parts.  What about Lies and Live like a Suicide.  Also, everyone mentions Civil war.  BUT (although he didnt record the songs on Illusions) he did play on many of the songs (eg Back off Bitch, Live and Let die etc) as they were playing them in their live shows even before Appetite was recorded!  I wonder how many of the songs on Appetite Adler did play on just didnt record!

 

Also is it just me or does anyone think Adlers Back from the Dead would be a great GNR song with Axl signing it?

No only that but to say only  Appetite as if that album doesn't tower over everything that came after...

 

If there was ever a band that's defined by one record, it has got to be Guns N' Roses. Those that disagree can look at the setlists.

[Modano09]

5 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

Slash was still pretty fucked up not too long ago.. It took shim decades to truly get off the shit. He was still shooting up in VR..

 

All the more reason to not have Adler around. The guy's been waiting for GNR to take him back for 25 years, he won't stay sober on a tour, which could be a problem for Duff and Slash, and who knows what he could say or do to piss Axl off.  

[stella]

6 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

Slash was still pretty fucked up not too long ago.. It took shim decades to truly get off the shit. He was still shooting up in VR..

He's now been sober for 11 years. And he was able to continue working steadily regardless of it. Slash gets hired and invited to work with others quite often; Adler doesn't. There are reasons for that.