GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[killuridols]

Its crazy but it seems like you cant fall sick or have a disgrace during these days because no one will fucking help you with anything..... everything's closed.... everybody's out of office..... fuck the world, man 

[purplestargirl]

48 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Its crazy but it seems like you cant fall sick or have a disgrace during these days because no one will fucking help you with anything..... everything's closed.... everybody's out of office..... fuck the world, man 

I agree with you here. Not much I can do about my own problem until my dentist returns to the office. And apparently dental problems aren't a major issue like other illnesses which force you to either Urgent Care or the hospital.  

The receptionist did say my broken filling was an emergency but because all the dentists are on vacation until Tuesday (when they come back), I should use dental wax until then. Fuck that, I'll just brush my teeth to keep it clean because it's only five days.

[Mararoyce]

9 hours ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

I know I'm an old crone but I think they look so much better when they're wearing normal rock t-shirts and not t-shirts plastered with women's tits and arses and labia.

Agree. The porno shirts look like they're trying too hard to capture or stay in thier  youth.

Yes, I'm lookin' at you, Axl.

[Politania]

2 hours ago, Mararoyce said:

Agree. The porno shirts look like they're trying too hard to capture or stay in thier  youth.

Yes, I'm lookin' at you, Axl.

When I checked the page from where Axl took those porn t-shirts images, I realized that he chose the "politest", the others are real hardcore

[Tori72]

11 hours ago, GuitarFanfromNYC said:

Uh oh ladies, looks like Susan didn't relegate the larger than life Sid portrait to a man cave... appears it is waiting to be hung in the dining room! #Appetizing? 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc_PD6QlUrd/

Sebastian Kruger? He met Izzy once. Why didn't he ever do a portrait of him?

That was in early 2002-2006-ish, wasn't it?

Just to drop some gossip and see if anyone knows anything more. I hate the Sid portrait for a living surroundings though. He looks dead and I wouldn't wanna eat with that...

[annabanana]

1 hour ago, Tori72 said:

Sebastian Kruger? He met Izzy once. Why didn't he ever do a portrait of him?

That was in early 2002-2006-ish, wasn't it?

Just to drop some gossip and see if anyone knows anything more. I hate the Sid portrait for a living surroundings though. He looks dead and I wouldn't wanna eat with that...

I believe this was 2008

[Alja]

13 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

Okay. No hugs.

What about weighted blanket? https://www.healthline.com/health/weighted-blanket-for-anxiety#benefits 

* Why is good to cuddle the shit out of someone from time to time: It`s okay to loose your shit from time to time. Because if you keep your shit, you`ll end up full of shit and then you`ll explode and there`ll be shit everywhere. A shit storm. And nobody wants that. 

7 hours ago, Mararoyce said:

Agree. The porno shirts look like they're trying too hard to capture or stay in thier  youth.

Yes, I'm lookin' at you, Axl.

Still, if I was in late night train and, unexpectedly, and there was Axl Rose in porn-tee and Gene Simons wearing business-casual, I`d rather be by Axl anyway. (I suck in recognizing faces, so most probably I wouldn`t recognize who`s that, just that vibe thing).

12 hours ago, purplestargirl said:

I'm sure it will. I'm either getting a crown on the tooth or it'll get refilled, which is what my dad thinks will happen and he's right on stuff like this. Just gotta be careful about the tooth until then.

I`ve broke part of my tooth when I was 6 and it was perfectly new! And the understanding that I won`t grow a new one anymore... (the filling broke one or two times until now) Anyways, I think things have calendar and know they wait until holidays to break (house stuff, electricity etc. too).

I`ve also seen a video, where they made beautiful white teeth from ugly grey ones. Basically, they cut them as much as they could (like half), but still maintained original shape and then with different material they covered and re-made them back to perfect, still natural shaped, age-appropriate teeth, even with the tip of the tooth slightly translucent, like natural and tooth maintaining living quality. Secret revealed.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Alja

[Lumikki]

23 hours ago, Alja said:

@Oldest Goat I`m not into that fanic stuff, too. It just makes me question... do most people take sex as only form of ultimate intimacy between adult people?

Like... they never used touch as a way of communication? Or cuddle the shit out of someone to comfort him(her)?

20 hours ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

I'm not into fanfic, mostly because I've never bothered to check it out properly, but I would guess it's just a harmless creative outlet for people to let their imaginations run wild.  I don't think writing or reading fanfic suggests anything about how a person values/doesn't value intimacy or sex.

I can also imagine, and correct me if I'm wrong, that there's more to the fanfics then just the sex scenes.  If most fanfics are written by women, then probably there's a whole context around the sex, exploration of relationship and events leading up to it.  I'm sure they do lots of 'touching' and 'cuddling' as well. 

You're exactly right, @MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle, most fanfiction is the exact opposite of what @Alja described. Full of the emotional and relationship and ~feelings~ side of things. Of course there is some that's just straight up porn as well, but for the most part the focus tends to be heavily on other issues and sex may or may not be a part of that. Which is what differentiates it from common (straight) pornography produced by men, which doesn't appeal to most women in my experience.

(Also, for the record, not all fanfiction is about sex and romantic relationships, there's plenty of other stuff out there as well, everything from historical drama to zombie apocalypse to parenting and babies, anything really. At least that's what it used to be like. I haven't really read fanfiction in ages (with a few exceptions), but I'm willing to bet this hasn't changed from when I was a kid.)

18 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Tbh I didn't know a thing like fanfic even existed before I joined the WT.

I've read some excerpts of GnR erotic fanfic out of curiosity. I'm not appalled or anything by it and I think it's harmless, but I just can't get into it, although I enjoy the Slaxl discussion and fun speculation.

The only one I read in full, prompted by a discussion here, was a non erotic piece titled "Dear Izzy". I read the whole thing although I'd almost figured out what was going on from the first chapter and I found it really disturbing. I think it's a bit too much to make up stories like that about real life people.

That must have been quite a shock then Tbh,  it's probably a generational thing. Me and my friends at school were writing shitty Harry Potter and sports fanfiction when we were like 12 or 13 years old. Harry Potter was huge back then, everyone was into it and sooner or later you were bound to stumble across the massive amounts of Harry Potter fanfic out there on the interwebs. And I also vaguely remember Lord of the Rings fanfiction being huge back then.

About "Dear Izzy"... I read that one too since it came so highly recommeneded as very well written etc. (and it is well-written, at least by GNR fandom standards- GNR is a small fandom so the quality of the writing is pretty low on average) and I found it really disturbing as well. But you're smarter than me, I had also sort of figured out what was going on, but was still shocked by the ending. I'm too attached to the idea of happy endings, I guess...

1 hour ago, Tori72 said:

Sebastian Kruger? He met Izzy once. Why didn't he ever do a portrait of him?

That was in early 2002-2006-ish, wasn't it?

Just to drop some gossip and see if anyone knows anything more. I hate the Sid portrait for a living surroundings though. He looks dead and I wouldn't wanna eat with that...

I remember reading gossip or speculation about the women next to Izzy being his girlfriend/wife at the time?

But I don't know if there was ever any truth or confirmation to any of that.

 

 

 

[Tori72]

1 hour ago, Lumikki said:

I remember reading gossip or speculation about the women next to Izzy being his girlfriend/wife at the time?

But I don't know if there was ever any truth or confirmation to any of that.

 

 

 

Yeah, you remember the discussion on the Whacky thread, right? There's this other foto of her at the 25th anniversary thing. She's standing in the background looking cool and beautiful and not giving to fucks about the GnR hype altogether. I am very sure she's his girlfriend.

[Alja]

38 minutes ago, Lumikki said:

You're exactly right, @MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle, most fanfiction is the exact opposite of what @Alja described. Full of the emotional and relationship and ~feelings~ side of things. Of course there is some that's just straight up porn as well, but for the most part the focus tends to be heavily on other issues and sex may or may not be a part of that. Which is what differentiates it from common (straight) pornography produced by men, which doesn't appeal to most women in my experience.

(Also, for the record, not all fanfiction is about sex and romantic relationships, there's plenty of other stuff out there as well, everything from historical drama to zombie apocalypse to parenting and babies, anything really. At least that's what it used to be like. I haven't really read fanfiction in ages (with a few exceptions), but I'm willing to bet this hasn't changed from when I was a kid.)

That must have been quite a shock then Tbh,  it's probably a generational thing. Me and my friends at school were writing shitty Harry Potter and sports fanfiction when we were like 12 or 13 years old. Harry Potter was huge back then, everyone was into it and sooner or later you were bound to stumble across the massive amounts of Harry Potter fanfic out there on the interwebs. And I also vaguely remember Lord of the Rings fanfiction being huge back then.

Maybe I let myself go on GNR fanfic drawings  Also remember LOTR fanfic, few gems in waste rock. Fantasy fanfic is usually not much romantic relationship thingy, I tried to write something then, huge superfan arguments about accuracy followed. If you want to maintain quality, you must go through tons of resources even for short story... I rather stick on writing original stories...  

[Tori72]

Sorry to derrail. This is not really GnR related but I'd like to give some examples of my research on fan fiction in general for those who might find it interesting. 

To understand the cultural tool of fanfiction, its meaning and the empowerment it CAN have to writers and readers, I recommend Laurie Pennie. She's worth a read anyway.

Fan fiction is about participation, of making something your own when you feel it is not represented in the culture you live in. FF  is not only about the sex or porn itself, it's the female gaze, the female view and the female sense of empowerement and desire that fan fiction is about. It is a whole new cultural code, especially regarding that most gay ff is written by young women. There's a lot more to it than meets the eye....

 

5 Things You Should Know About Slash Fiction in Bustle

"It Might Allow Young Women To Explore Their Sexuality Without Sexualizing Themselves

Some scholars believe that the idea of slash fiction, yaoi, danmei and other purely male-homosexual genres are actually a way for female viewers to escape society's sexual demands and roles for girls — by entering a space where what is expected of women no longer matters. Japanese novelist Kaoru Kurimoto has written that girls "are constantly classified based on how they look, how they fulfill female-gendered functions, how they perform as home maintenance machines," and that yaoi (and, by extension, all kinds of media based around around this particular vision of male sexuality) presents "a place where the gaze of men and society doesn't exist, and where they themselves — always the objects of that gaze — don't exist either"."

Fanfiction and Feminism

"There’s been a little scholarship done around fanfiction and gender relations, including Angela Thomas’ research, which found that writing fanfiction allowed young women to create empowering narratives that let them feel more powerful in their everyday lives. She also found the sense of community writers got from fanfic was important, especially for teenagers who might otherwise feel excluded in their peer group.

Canadian Paulette Rothbauer’s research found that some lesbian and queer girls find role models in slash fanfiction, which some found particularly important at a time when they felt alone and unsupported."

Fan Fiction and Utopic Sexuality

"The slash fiction genre embraces the possibilities of ‘a fluidity of erotic identification’[5]: a notion at the heart of the theoretical discipline of queer theory. The community of writers of straight, lesbian and bisexual women actively and self-reflectively discuss queerness, the social constructions of gender and the politics surrounding sexuality. Noy Thrupkaew notions in Media Reception Studies that ‘Slash enables its writers to subvert TV’s tired male/female relationships while interacting with and showing mastery over the original raw material of the show.’ Thrupkaew claims that such fiction produces a ‘richer sense of possibility than duplicating the well-worn boy/girl romances coughed up by most TV shows.’[6]"

[Gabrielaerojas]

7 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Sorry to derrail. This is not really GnR related but I'd like to give some examples of my research on fan fiction in general for those who might find it interesting. 

To understand the cultural tool of fanfiction, its meaning and the empowerment it CAN have to writers and readers, I recommend Laurie Pennie. She's worth a read anyway.

Fan fiction is about participation, of making something your own when you feel it is not represented in the culture you live in. FF  is not only about the sex or porn itself, it's the female gaze, the female view and the female sense of empowerement and desire that fan fiction is about. It is a whole new cultural code, especially regarding that most gay ff is written by young women. There's a lot more to it than meets the eye....

 

5 Things You Should Know About Slash Fiction in Bustle

"It Might Allow Young Women To Explore Their Sexuality Without Sexualizing Themselves

Some scholars believe that the idea of slash fiction, yaoi, danmei and other purely male-homosexual genres are actually a way for female viewers to escape society's sexual demands and roles for girls — by entering a space where what is expected of women no longer matters. Japanese novelist Kaoru Kurimoto has written that girls "are constantly classified based on how they look, how they fulfill female-gendered functions, how they perform as home maintenance machines," and that yaoi (and, by extension, all kinds of media based around around this particular vision of male sexuality) presents "a place where the gaze of men and society doesn't exist, and where they themselves — always the objects of that gaze — don't exist either"."

Fanfiction and Feminism

"There’s been a little scholarship done around fanfiction and gender relations, including Angela Thomas’ research, which found that writing fanfiction allowed young women to create empowering narratives that let them feel more powerful in their everyday lives. She also found the sense of community writers got from fanfic was important, especially for teenagers who might otherwise feel excluded in their peer group.

Canadian Paulette Rothbauer’s research found that some lesbian and queer girls find role models in slash fanfiction, which some found particularly important at a time when they felt alone and unsupported."

Fan Fiction and Utopic Sexuality

"The slash fiction genre embraces the possibilities of ‘a fluidity of erotic identification’[5]: a notion at the heart of the theoretical discipline of queer theory. The community of writers of straight, lesbian and bisexual women actively and self-reflectively discuss queerness, the social constructions of gender and the politics surrounding sexuality. Noy Thrupkaew notions in Media Reception Studies that ‘Slash enables its writers to subvert TV’s tired male/female relationships while interacting with and showing mastery over the original raw material of the show.’ Thrupkaew claims that such fiction produces a ‘richer sense of possibility than duplicating the well-worn boy/girl romances coughed up by most TV shows.’[6]"

Very interesting. My guilty pleasure is fan fiction. I’m not ashamed of admitting it. 

[Tori72]

2 minutes ago, Gabrielaerojas said:

Very interesting. My guilty pleasure is fan fiction. I’m not ashamed of admitting it. 

There are no guilty pleasures. It's just pleasure. Don't downgrade what you like. 

[killuridols]

My question is... do all GN'R fan fictions are about making them be homosexual?

Yeah, I think like @Lumikki said, this fan fiction stuff must be something generational.... I don't remember any of this happening when GN'R was at the top of their game.

I never knew of Slaxl until I saw it online and discovered the amount of drawings made about them being gay.

Not in a millions years it ever occurred to me that they could be gay at all. Not even Axl.

This is something that started recently, I mean, like with the Internet era.

So I'm not into that... I've read it once I think but I never got hooked up....

Men homosexuality doesn't arise me in general, as much as for me wanting to read/watch gay porn...

The only one movie about the subject that I loved was "Velvet Golmine", don't know why

 

Edited December 29, 2017 by killuridols

[Tori72]

5 minutes ago, killuridols said:

My question is... do all GN'R fan fictions are about making them be homosexual?

No. There's heterosexual ff, too. Same goes for other ff topics.

I think it's an internet cultural thing. Because distribution and reach. There always was fiction exchanged among girls and young women about cultural phenomena like tv shows, movies, bands, etc. They just never got distributed like this.

Gay ff doesn't mean necessarily that writers and/or readers are into gay porn or gay sex in general. It is a literary and cultural and self-identificatory tool.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Tori72

[killuridols]

5 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

There always was fiction exchanged among girls and young women about cultural phenomena like tv shows, movies, bands, etc. They just never got distributed like this.

I used to exchange letters with other fans of GN'R back in the day but they never mentioned fan fic to me... or writings about Slaxl.....
Maybe I was too young and they didn't want to show me?

7 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Gay ff doesn't mean necessarily that writers and/or readers are into gay porn or gay sex in general. It is a literary and cultural and self-identificatory tool.

But to write about gay relationships... somehow you must like it or be attracted to it in some way... even if you identify heterosexual.... although Im not sure someone's 100% heterosexual, lol.

-----

Btw, this got nothing to do with FANFIC but I recently watched 'Blue Is The Warmest Color' (or La vie d'Adele)

I didn't like the over explicit sex scenes but I loved the story

 

[Rocketqueen76]

1 hour ago, Tori72 said:

Sorry to derrail. This is not really GnR related but I'd like to give some examples of my research on fan fiction in general for those who might find it interesting. 

To understand the cultural tool of fanfiction, its meaning and the empowerment it CAN have to writers and readers, I recommend Laurie Pennie. She's worth a read anyway.

Fan fiction is about participation, of making something your own when you feel it is not represented in the culture you live in. FF  is not only about the sex or porn itself, it's the female gaze, the female view and the female sense of empowerement and desire that fan fiction is about. It is a whole new cultural code, especially regarding that most gay ff is written by young women. There's a lot more to it than meets the eye....

 

5 Things You Should Know About Slash Fiction in Bustle

"It Might Allow Young Women To Explore Their Sexuality Without Sexualizing Themselves

Some scholars believe that the idea of slash fiction, yaoi, danmei and other purely male-homosexual genres are actually a way for female viewers to escape society's sexual demands and roles for girls — by entering a space where what is expected of women no longer matters. Japanese novelist Kaoru Kurimoto has written that girls "are constantly classified based on how they look, how they fulfill female-gendered functions, how they perform as home maintenance machines," and that yaoi (and, by extension, all kinds of media based around around this particular vision of male sexuality) presents "a place where the gaze of men and society doesn't exist, and where they themselves — always the objects of that gaze — don't exist either"."

Fanfiction and Feminism

"There’s been a little scholarship done around fanfiction and gender relations, including Angela Thomas’ research, which found that writing fanfiction allowed young women to create empowering narratives that let them feel more powerful in their everyday lives. She also found the sense of community writers got from fanfic was important, especially for teenagers who might otherwise feel excluded in their peer group.

Canadian Paulette Rothbauer’s research found that some lesbian and queer girls find role models in slash fanfiction, which some found particularly important at a time when they felt alone and unsupported."

Fan Fiction and Utopic Sexuality

"The slash fiction genre embraces the possibilities of ‘a fluidity of erotic identification’[5]: a notion at the heart of the theoretical discipline of queer theory. The community of writers of straight, lesbian and bisexual women actively and self-reflectively discuss queerness, the social constructions of gender and the politics surrounding sexuality. Noy Thrupkaew notions in Media Reception Studies that ‘Slash enables its writers to subvert TV’s tired male/female relationships while interacting with and showing mastery over the original raw material of the show.’ Thrupkaew claims that such fiction produces a ‘richer sense of possibility than duplicating the well-worn boy/girl romances coughed up by most TV shows.’[6]"

I so ♥️ you right now! Thank you for this.

[Alja]

In high school I used to participate in writing competitions. What I did: I imagined a story and tried to capture it in words. What happened: when I read the review of my work, they could find lots of stuff I was never thinking about, I never left any hidden message, just a story to enjoy. Art is that you capture particular feeling, it`s not a manifest. It can end up as a manifest, as something, which moves people to do stuff or what not, but it always begins with artist captured and objectified something and others related to it. 

Men are classified by society by like doing rational decisions, not getting emotional or how they are able to get propriety and influence (equivalent of women being beautiful and kind) and how they perform as ATM machines. In this... name it male relationship FF, as far as I know, nothing like that is present. So maybe for girls who write that society standards on manliness (Prince Charming, Mr.Right...) don`t matter...

[GNRfanJen]

This talk about fanfiction is fascinating to me, and I'm glad is being discussed in the WT at length like this (woo, three cheers to the WT for original content!). And thank you @Tori72 for that video, I'll be checking it out.  

I personally really enjoy fanfiction. I got introduced years and years ago when I saw a Harry Potter fanfic on the internet (used to be totally obsessed with HP and honestly I still am, ha). I enjoyed it. 'Shipping' is the term for it, a la putting two people in a relationship. As others have said, there is of course much more to it than just smut. Sure those are enjoyable to read, but as cheesy as it sounds, I really enjoy the fluff type fanfics where the main idea is affection between partners, NOT in a sexual way. The stories and plot events are implemented that are genuinely fun to read. I think for me, I don't have the best luck with members of the opposite sex, so when I read the fluff fanfics, it's like I live vicariously through these characters and the writing, as if I get to experience it myself. Then of course you have the whole thought of love and sex taken away, and it's just the story and plot lines itself. I'm a big reader with an open mind so I even enjoy those. It's a whole universe created solely by fans and I think it's beautiful that people can share that with others and it be an open medium for both writers and readers to create and express.

As far as Slaxl goes, well, I think that one speaks for itself 

Also - I feel like I haven't been in here in forever! Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas! And if you don't celebrate, that you had a wonderful day! 

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

4 hours ago, Tori72 said:

No. There's heterosexual ff, too. Same goes for other ff topics.

I think it's an internet cultural thing. Because distribution and reach. There always was fiction exchanged among girls and young women about cultural phenomena like tv shows, movies, bands, etc. They just never got distributed like this.

Gay ff doesn't mean necessarily that writers and/or readers are into gay porn or gay sex in general. It is a literary and cultural and self-identificatory tool.

All I know is that I like the idea of Slaxl * for the same reason many men like the idea of hot woman-on-woman action.  Two hot men getting it on - what's not to like?   I should say, I've got a very liberal attitude towards sex and sexuality.  With me, anything goes so long as it's consensual and of-age and protection is used.  

 Thanks for the info you posted - going to read up on it as it's got my interest now.

* I also like the idea of Duff with Axl or Slash but can't make my imagination stretch to include Izzy.  It just never seems realistic?  He really does seem 100% straight.

 

[Gabrielaerojas]

5 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

and think deserves some criticism is you're writing stories about real people. Making them do things they wouldn't do.

Actually I was reading that there have been some lawsuits from other writers, even actors, etcs, ordering a cease and desist and such. Warner Bros apparently sued, so did JK Rowling... 

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

1 minute ago, Gabrielaerojas said:

Actually I was reading that there have been some lawsuits from other writers, even actors, etcs, ordering a cease and desist and such. Warner Bros apparently sued, so did JK Rowling... 

I wonder why Stefenie Myer never sued the 50 Shades of Gray author.   That was the most well known case of fanfic becoming a phenomenon.  

[Gabrielaerojas]

9 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

I wonder why Stefenie Myer never sued the 50 Shades of Gray author.   That was the most well known case of fanfic becoming a phenomenon.  

True

[Rocketqueen76]

38 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

All I know is that I like the idea of Slaxl * for the same reason many men like the idea of hot woman-on-woman action.  Two hot men getting it on - what's not to like?   I should say, I've got a very liberal attitude towards sex and sexuality.  With me, anything goes so long as it's consensual and of-age and protection is used.  

 Thanks for the info you posted - going to read up on it as it's got my interest now.

* I also like the idea of Duff with Axl or Slash but can't make my imagination stretch to include Izzy.  It just never seems realistic?  He really does seem 100% straight.

 

I share your attitude in this. I have always found it such a fucked up double standard that it’s okay to watch or think about two women together but two men sharing a similar experience.

[GNRfanJen]

Of course the case can be made that writing fanfic about real people can be viewed as...strange, but really these people who write it, they don't ACTUALLY know the person, they know how they are perceived, and that is what they go off of when creating their own universe. Granted the person they are writing about is still a real person, and depending on what the content of the story is about could be weird, but that's just kinda how it works, there's no real harm behind the intentions though for the most part.

For example, I'm a huge wrestling fan. Have been for about half my life. These wrestlers play different characters on television. They are not that character in real life. But we as fans don't know how they are in day-to-day life, so wrestling fanfic writers write about what they see on the television screen. So yes these wrestlers are real people, but the writers write about what they see on the screen, and create their own stories based off of that. Similar to actors/actresses I suppose.