The General Evader vs The General GnR

[JimiRose]

10 hours ago, DoMw94 said:

It's not a 'version' though. It's not The General, it's nothing like The General. It's not a 'version' of the same song, they're very different things. There is no 'Evader's version'. There's The General, and Evader's thing that shares the same title.

Of the two choices, one is The General, the other is some fan-made nonsense.

Fair play to them for creating it, but why are we comparing a legitimate release to some unreleated thing created out of thin air and hearsay?

Fanmade nonsense is a bit harsh. I think my point is this, when evader did his version it was met with overwhleming positivity and to most, it was considered a great idea of what the song could sound like. The reaction to the general that GnR did is mostly negative and meh. People can say one isn;t real, but evaders probably took more effort and skill and GnRs is probably 90% computer made too. So to call one version and real and one not even existing isn't correct. one isn't made by a band, but musically it's probably better than the one that was. 

[JimiRose]

If ever the massive hypocrisy of the GnR fanbase needs pointing out, it's in this thread. 

'EVADER WE LOVE YOUR VERSION OF THE GENERAL, I'M SO EXCITED, HOW DID YOU DO IT?'

'GnRs General is shit, poor mix, computer made, dreadful song, no hook, fucked up release'

'OH well of course we prefer the GnR version to evaders shitty fanmade, his doesn't even exist, so even though we hate the GnRs general at least its real (LOL)'

maybe its a mix of completely misreading the question, rewriting history, maybe its the cognitive dissonance of the GnR fanbases feelings towards Axl, but it's been an eye opener for sure. 

and yes i am well aware that Generals evader was (partly) based off a phone leak which turned out to be soul monster. However we did not know that until late october. Some people seem to think a song is only real when it's released on spotify or uses actual instruments. As lovely as that is, it isnt the case. But anyway, run back to talking about clipping because you all think you know more than millionaire producers about how to produce music, but can't see how two songs called the general bear any relation at all 

And evaders general is better. Deal with it nuthuggers

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by JimiRose

[jamillos]

Again, I would understand if you made a thread about comparing the actual recent The General leak with the eventually released version (or the leaked song Monsters with the Evader mix) . But the Evader mix is a mix of a song that we now know is Monsters (or Soul Monster or whatever). So you’re comparing apples and oranges here; it doesn’t make any sense. Forget clipping, it’s literally two different songs. How is it still escaping you? 
The problem is what we thought was TG was Monsters all along. Evader's version is not "different", it's a different song. Ergo no logic in any comparison of these two. Or "living up to the hype" etc. It was all based on a completely different tune. As simple as that. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by jamillos

[Eric Cantona]

Brain rot

[JimiRose]

1 hour ago, jamillos said:

Again, I would understand if you made a thread about comparing the actual recent The General leak with the eventually released version (or the leaked song Monsters with the Evader mix) . But the Evader mix is a mix of a song that we now know is Monsters (or Soul Monster or whatever). So you’re comparing apples and oranges here; it doesn’t make any sense. Forget clipping, it’s literally two different songs. How is it still escaping you? 
The problem is what we thought was TG was Monsters all along. Evader's version is not "different", it's a different song. Ergo no logic in any comparison of these two. Or "living up to the hype" etc. It was all based on a completely different tune. As simple as that. 

its two different songs which ever way you look at it. If anything Evaders version is a hybrid of the two. We believed it to be the general from the phone clip. Evaders mix is called the general and the orchestra at least is still from the General. there's no point comparing it to soul monster because we never once thought that the phone leak was soul monster. That wasnt just the consensus here, it was stated as fact. So it's a simple question that has been made incredibly difficult. Evaders 'General' or GnRs 'General' there's no Axl rose loopholes questioning required. which song do people think is better. Not ' BuT iT wAs SoUl MoNsTer AlL AloNG'. No shit, I didnt ask that! 

At face value when you listen to either of those songs which is better. That's all it was. Majority here have slated GnRs General, and eulogised evaders, social media has had people asking for it to be the 'original' demo. Yet the vote here says over 80% of you prefer GnRs. Doesn't really make sense. Especially as you all say evaders is based more on soul monster which again, majority love. So why is everyone voting for GnRs general...? Cognitive dissonance? Objectively the vote should be the other way round right? 

Edited December 11, 2023 by JimiRose

[Cosmo]

Even though I prefer the official version, to this day, I’m still baffled at how much Evader managed to make something good out of that incredibly noisy mess of a cellphone recording. Dudes really talented.

[jamillos]

27 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

its two different songs which ever way you look at it. If anything Evaders version is a hybrid of the two. We believed it to be the general from the phone clip. Evaders mix is called the general and the orchestra at least is still from the General. there's no point comparing it to soul monster because we never once thought that the phone leak was soul monster. That wasnt just the consensus here, it was stated as fact. So it's a simple question that has been made incredibly difficult. Evaders 'General' or GnRs 'General' there's no Axl rose loopholes questioning required. which song do people think is better. Not ' BuT iT wAs SoUl MoNsTer AlL AloNG'. No shit, I didnt ask that! 

At face value when you listen to either of those songs which is better. That's all it was. Majority here have slated GnRs General, and eulogised evaders, social media has had people asking for it to be the 'original' demo. Yet the vote here says over 80% of you prefer GnRs. Doesn't really make sense. Especially as you all say evaders is based more on soul monster which again, majority love. So why is everyone voting for GnRs general...? Cognitive dissonance? Objectively the vote should be the other way round right? 

I may not be fully understanding here. The bottom line is, the Evader mix is made out of Monsters. I don’t care about the intro too much, the body of the song is clearly what we know as Monsters, even though it may be a fusion of both songs to some extent. Hence the mix is not The General (even though it was named that erroneously), but a different song – and in that case the comparison is pointless. That’s the logic I’m coming from. 
But hey, you do you. 

[DoMw94]

6 hours ago, JimiRose said:

evaders probably took more effort and skill

WHAT?! 😂😂😂

They pieced together sound files from recordings of other peoples' original work. GN'R literally wrote the song and played the instruments!

Any and all credibility your point might have had was lost right there

Edited December 11, 2023 by DoMw94

[JimiRose]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:04 PM, DoMw94 said:

WHAT?! 😂😂😂

They pieced together sound files from recordings of other peoples' original work. GN'R literally wrote the song and played the instruments!

Any and all credibility your point might have had was lost right there

That is much harder and painstaking a process than sitting there and writing a 2 verse 1 bridge 3 chorus song. Any musician here could bang out a song like the general in fucking 60 minutes. Any and all credibility your point might have had was lost right there

[DoMw94]

6 hours ago, JimiRose said:

That is much harder and painstaking a process than sitting there and writing a 2 verse 1 bridge 3 chorus song. Any musician here could bang out a song like the general in fucking 60 minutes. Any and all credibility your point might have had was lost right there

No. Just no.

And you said it yourself, "any musician". So you need to be a musician to write a song. You just need a computer to stitch together other peoples' work. I can't play an instrument, I can't sing, and I sure as hell can't write lyrics. I could patch together other peoples' songs to make something though – I'm not saying it'd be any good, but it's doable.

There is no way piecing together existing audio is harder than writing, playing, and recording an original song. No way whatsoever.

I don't care how good the patchwork sounds, you're still starting with someone else's work. The heavy lifting has been done. If you're writing an original song, you start from zero. You have to come up with everything yourself, not just arrange it

 

[JimiRose]

17 hours ago, DoMw94 said:

No. Just no.

And you said it yourself, "any musician". So you need to be a musician to write a song. You just need a computer to stitch together other peoples' work. I can't play an instrument, I can't sing, and I sure as hell can't write lyrics. I could patch together other peoples' songs to make something though – I'm not saying it'd be any good, but it's doable.

There is no way piecing together existing audio is harder than writing, playing, and recording an original song. No way whatsoever.

I don't care how good the patchwork sounds, you're still starting with someone else's work. The heavy lifting has been done. If you're writing an original song, you start from zero. You have to come up with everything yourself, not just arrange it

 

Don't sell yourself short. Anyone can write lyrics. Axls for the most part aren't complex poetry. I'm pretty sure Evader would know something about music to be able to piece it all together, which key and note etc. 

[Mrbrownskin]

For professional musicians, making a song is like making a ham sandwich. If you're a good singer you just open your mouth and sing. That's not hard. Anyone can write lyrics. It's subjective whether they'd be any good. And if you can play guitar like Slash, you can split out a cool riff in two seconds. What Evader did - and I'm still baffled how - is incredibly difficult and painstakingly detailed. I mean, it sounds better than any of these new songs, imo. Even for a professional editor, doing something like what Evader did is difficult. Again, I find Evader's "The General" more interesting than any of the newly released tracks - and his mix/production is so much better than the mixes of these new tracks.

[bmus1]

Can anyone help me out with a listen?

[Voodoochild]

What evader did is a different kind of work, but it does include artistic sensibility and meticulous observation of song elements. It's a lot of work, but the guy clearly has the chops. It's different from creating a song from the scratch, of course, but it doesn't mean it's easy to make something worth noting. 

Having said that, I encourage anyone here to try to just sing The General in the same tone, octave and timbre and then come back to say if that was easy. Just because the song's structure and chords are relatively simple, it doesn't mean there was some serious effort there. 

 

[Mrbrownskin]

1 hour ago, Voodoochild said:

What evader did is a different kind of work, but it does include artistic sensibility and meticulous observation of song elements. It's a lot of work, but the guy clearly has the chops. It's different from creating a song from the scratch, of course, but it doesn't mean it's easy to make something worth noting. 

Having said that, I encourage anyone here to try to just sing The General in the same tone, octave and timbre and then come back to say if that was easy. Just because the song's structure and chords are relatively simple, it doesn't mean there was some serious effort there. 

 

I'm not debating the effort involved in creating the actual GnR song "The General" vs. Evader's version, I'm merely trying to dispel the notion that what Evader did is, in general, easier than writing a song if you're a professional musician. For me to try and sing in key, etc. is very difficult if not impossible - BUT - for a professional singer with that inherent talent, it's easy. Conversely, even for a professional editor, what Evader did is very difficult to pull off successfully.

Anyway, I think we're saying the same thing. Both teams played hard.