Why No Release? Simple.

[Millions]

Furthermore, Nixon....

If you look at my original post, my point is that there are just not enough people out there interested in the dregs of the Chinese Democracy sessions, going by the quality of what they've heard already.

I get that you love the album. I really do. I love some if it too - 3 or 4 songs, maybe. But that's irrelevant. It all comes down to money, and if the record company and record-buying public think it's a dud....... then in financial terms, it IS a dud.

Guys like you and me were always going to buy this thing anyway. That was a given. But hardcore fans aren't enough for a successful album. To bring in the mainstream audience, they needed the songs, which sadly just weren't there. And if the first picks weren't up to the required standard, how logical is it to think the leftovers will be? (by 'required standard' I dont mean by your values, but t.hose of the general public).

[Estranged Coma]

There is a poll

[RichardNixon]

Furthermore, Nixon....

If you look at my original post, my point is that there are just not enough people out there interested in the dregs of the Chinese Democracy sessions, going by the quality of what they've heard already.

I get that you love the album. I really do. I love some if it too - 3 or 4 songs, maybe. But that's irrelevant. It all comes down to money, and if the record company and record-buying public think it's a dud....... then in financial terms, it IS a dud.

Guys like you and me were always going to buy this thing anyway. That was a given. But hardcore fans aren't enough for a successful album. To bring in the mainstream audience, they needed the songs, which sadly just weren't there. And if the first picks weren't up to the required standard, how logical is it to think the leftovers will be? (by 'required standard' I dont mean by your values, but t.hose of the general public).

By that logic Warrant, Queensryche, Alanis, Cyndi Lauper and Deep Purple should all stop releasing new music to because their album sales have all declined, yet they continue to release new music. There are plenty of vocal folks on this forum who like the album and plenty who dislike it. It's anecdotal and proves nothing.

Edited January 5, 2014 by RichardNixon

[Mysteron]

I'm so sick of reading all the bullshit, conspiracy theories and weak, ill-founded speculation about why Chinese Democracy 2 hasn't been released in 5 years.

1) Axl has lost his confidence ;

2) The record company is furious at Axl's lack of promotion for Chinese Democracy so is being awkward ;

3) Axl is holding out for more money.

Blah blah blah fucking blah........

Listen. Chinese Democracy was a commercial flop. It was an album full of utterly mediocre songs - like It's The World, Scraped, Rhiad......

So if those songs were the first pick from the archive, what are the left-over dregs going to be like?

Bob Ezrin said it years ago - the quality songs just aren't there. End of story.

That, as they say, is that. Deal with it.

I would have enjoyed RE better if their had been a gospel according to Bob.

[wasted]

From a marketing perspective CD fits the bring in new sales model. Dont hit up the same fans again with, you all ready got them. So go outside the parameters to hook in a new audience. Its not really what rock bands do a lot. The Stones did it by moving their fans. General rock will think CD is interestingvgood record. Where CD will alienate UYI era fans just as UYI moved away from AFD. but each time the GNR net gets wider. CD is closer to Alt 90s with pop rock element.

[hellobeatle]

If Axl won't reunite the real GNR, I am perfectly fine with him retiring at this point. It's only going to get more and more embarrassing.

I agree that a reunion is the only thing that'd get me excited about the band. However the current line up puts on a great show compared to the other incarnations I've seen so I'm happy with just live gigs as opposed to retirement. A new album by the current line up would be interesting to hear but I won't lose sleep if one never comes.

[wasted]

I just dont think Adler or Izzy really have it in them committment wise. Slash is a bit stubborn and doesnt really need Axl to do his thing. Its a big ask to make a relevant reunion, or bring it with enough attitude. Axl as GNR can sing about the past and survival. But to come back swinging to live up to AFD...

[TeeJay410]

Flop is only defined by the context you place it in.

When compared to the bands previous releases, the expectation of perfection, the anticipation, surface level similarities to AC/DC and Metallica who released albums that year, and even Axl's own expectations sure it flopped.

However when you look at the fact it was long delayed, Axl essentially destroyed the GNR brand by forcing/kicking out all classic members and the horrendous vma sideshow performance, over tinkered, had little to no label support, hardly any promotion, and had become a punch line, it actually is somewhat improbable it even sold what it did.

I don't think anticipation for CD ever actually existed post 2002. Curiosity sure, but curiosity doesn't sell millions of albums. The only anticipation was among fans and rock critics who wanted to se how the story played out. The casual rock fan didn't really give a shit. Time passed Axl by, and outside of here and South America I doubt very many people cared. With all of that stacked against it, selling what it did is fairly remarkable.

So for a washed up former rock star who hijacked his bands name and released an album of music that sounded nothing like the music they were known for (this is where the AC/DC and Metallica comparison fails, nearly all original members and music true to their classic sound) years after anyone cared, not bad.

[durruti column]

the demand for a new nugnr album is not important enough. moreover, the casual fans who are the majority at nugnr concerts are more interested in listening to afd and uyi songs than new material, which is understandable. the glory days have much more appeal than the current situation.

most of the cd songs aren't played at the shows, so why would axl release a new album that will be ignored by most of gnr fans?

a new album means too much effort and money for little reward.

Edited January 6, 2014 by durruti column

[Bono]

How in the hell could Interscope be furious at AXL'S lack of promotion if they didn't do shit to promote it either?

Except they actually did.

I saw commercials on TV for CD. (20 seconds of cheap forced promo doesn't count)

I saw ads in magazines for CD. (never ever saw anything in a magazine besides reviews...are you just making that up?)

I saw ads in newspapers for CD. (never ever saw anything in a newspaper besides reviews...are you just making that up?)

And let's not forget that they gave Axl 14 million dollars to create the album. (even more reason to promote THEIR investment)

Holy fuck! Groghan gives blatant examples of promotion yet the rules change for Axl and none of it counts. Typical delusional bullshit as always.

The tv add ran for a LONG time and in pretty heavy rotation. The only album I've ever seen promoted more via a tv commercial was AC/DC's Black Ice. So I hate to break it to ya but YES it does count as promotion.

The magazine adds were everywhere. Way to ignore something so obvious to protect your hero.

Again holy fuck? Do you live under a rock? These adds appeared all over the place. I even saw billboards and posters for the damn album on city streets.

The label gave them 14 million dollar and promoted the album more than I've seen an album promoted save for a music video and interviews(Axl's own damn fault)

Not to mention the insane hype it had based on the whole myth and decade long anticipation for Chinese Democracy

I've never seen a group of people try so hard to defend something and change all the rules to protect their hero. Had those tv adds ran for an other band you'd think it was great promotion. It's like you so desperately need to defend Axl to feel validation for your existence or something. Excuse after excuse after excuse. Bad lead single, No music video, no interviews, no live dvd etc etc etc. Holy shit they even had a song play during the credits of a big Leo Dicaprio movie but nope that doesn't count because the album was rejected by the public.

It's amazing how you people will blame absolutely everything under the sun but never for one second acknowledge the obvious point that maybe just maybe the music wasn't something most people liked. Oh god no that couldn't be it at all right? If people would just listen objectively they'd love it right?

Unreal.

[wasted]

Real promo costs money. Videos cost money, GNR videos need about a million bucks. For an album not making profit its a no.

If they gwt Target to give them 10 mil for CD II. Then maybe they could do a few videos. Cos theyd make 30 mil for the 3 mil worldwide sales.

The fact that radio stations just werent interested in playing songs doesnt help.

I just dont think promo helped much. DC and Metallica have solid fanbase and no line up stigma.

Axl just released a record into a shitstorn. Steve Berman couldnt sell this record. Violent Tom told Axl to shove his record up his ass. CD had negative publicity and everyone kind of prefers Axl as the bad guy and CD as the greatest cult disaster album of all time. Its pretty cool really.

[SoulMonster]

Who knows why Axl hasn't prioritized releasing more music over touring? His mind is a black box. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he is actually working according to some weird, alien plan of his. Axl moves in mysterious ways. [unless you attend a GN'R show, then his movements have become rather predictable.]

As for CD flopping: Compared to most other albums it sold well, but that doesn't necessarily say anything about the quality of the album because it was such an anticipated album. It seems to me most people consider it a "meh" album today. It simply didn't move people the way it perhaps should have. I guess the critics got it right when they rated it favourable, like 4/6. Would people buy a new album from GN'R in the future? I am sure they will. Perhaps not another 3 millions world-wide (or whatever it is), but that isn't necessary either to make a new release both artistically and financially valid. Go GN'R!

Hoping for some new songs this year (although I doubt it) and a statement from Axl about the future. Hope you all have a great year

[TeeJay410]

Real promo costs money. Videos cost money, GNR videos need about a million bucks. For an album not making profit its a no.

If they gwt Target to give them 10 mil for CD II. Then maybe they could do a few videos. Cos theyd make 30 mil for the 3 mil worldwide sales.

The fact that radio stations just werent interested in playing songs doesnt help.

I just dont think promo helped much. DC and Metallica have solid fanbase and no line up stigma.

Axl just released a record into a shitstorn. Steve Berman couldnt sell this record. Violent Tom told Axl to shove his record up his ass. CD had negative publicity and everyone kind of prefers Axl as the bad guy and CD as the greatest cult disaster album of all time. Its pretty cool really.

Pretty much, which makes it a wonder why anyone thought it would go well, or even bothered hoping that it would.

[wasted]

Real promo costs money. Videos cost money, GNR videos need about a million bucks. For an album not making profit its a no.

If they gwt Target to give them 10 mil for CD II. Then maybe they could do a few videos. Cos theyd make 30 mil for the 3 mil worldwide sales.

The fact that radio stations just werent interested in playing songs doesnt help.

I just dont think promo helped much. DC and Metallica have solid fanbase and no line up stigma.

Axl just released a record into a shitstorn. Steve Berman couldnt sell this record. Violent Tom told Axl to shove his record up his ass. CD had negative publicity and everyone kind of prefers Axl as the bad guy and CD as the greatest cult disaster album of all time. Its pretty cool really.

Pretty much, which makes it a wonder why anyone thought it would go well, or even bothered hoping that it would.

those Best Buy type deals are code for the industry is fucked were not going to sell records anymore.

The hope started in the 90s and early 00s it was just delusion. Theres an artist who doesnt care about sales v industry with a 14 mil anchor around its neck and bitterness to grind.

CD is what happens when bad meets evil.

[wasted]

How in the hell could Interscope be furious at AXL'S lack of promotion if they didn't do shit to promote it either?

Except they actually did.

I saw commercials on TV for CD. (20 seconds of cheap forced promo doesn't count)

I saw ads in magazines for CD. (never ever saw anything in a magazine besides reviews...are you just making that up?)

I saw ads in newspapers for CD. (never ever saw anything in a newspaper besides reviews...are you just making that up?)

And let's not forget that they gave Axl 14 million dollars to create the album. (even more reason to promote THEIR investment)

Holy fuck! Groghan gives blatant examples of promotion yet the rules change for Axl and none of it counts. Typical delusional bullshit as always.

The tv add ran for a LONG time and in pretty heavy rotation. The only album I've ever seen promoted more via a tv commercial was AC/DC's Black Ice. So I hate to break it to ya but YES it does count as promotion.

The magazine adds were everywhere. Way to ignore something so obvious to protect your hero.

Again holy fuck? Do you live under a rock? These adds appeared all over the place. I even saw billboards and posters for the damn album on city streets.

The label gave them 14 million dollar and promoted the album more than I've seen an album promoted save for a music video and interviews(Axl's own damn fault)

Not to mention the insane hype it had based on the whole myth and decade long anticipation for Chinese Democracy

I've never seen a group of people try so hard to defend something and change all the rules to protect their hero. Had those tv adds ran for an other band you'd think it was great promotion. It's like you so desperately need to defend Axl to feel validation for your existence or something. Excuse after excuse after excuse. Bad lead single, No music video, no interviews, no live dvd etc etc etc. Holy shit they even had a song play during the credits of a big Leo Dicaprio movie but nope that doesn't count because the album was rejected by the public.

It's amazing how you people will blame absolutely everything under the sun but never for one second acknowledge the obvious point that maybe just maybe the music wasn't something most people liked. Oh god no that couldn't be it at all right? If people would just listen objectively they'd love it right?

Unreal.

i would say that only sum GNR fans liked 90s alternative. Some might but not comfortable with GNR doing it. The reality is the reaction to CD wasnt bad enough to say people didnt like it. You cant really judge a cd by sales these days. Critics gave it a resounding 7/10, fans who waited 20 years for it maybe just wanted UYI 3. CD does not have the orginal balls out GNR attitude. Butvit has other qualities. Its just a cd I guess.

[D-GenerationX]

Furthermore, Nixon....

If you look at my original post, my point is that there are just not enough people out there interested in the dregs of the Chinese Democracy sessions, going by the quality of what they've heard already.

I get that you love the album. I really do. I love some if it too - 3 or 4 songs, maybe. But that's irrelevant. It all comes down to money, and if the record company and record-buying public think it's a dud....... then in financial terms, it IS a dud.

Guys like you and me were always going to buy this thing anyway. That was a given. But hardcore fans aren't enough for a successful album. To bring in the mainstream audience, they needed the songs, which sadly just weren't there. And if the first picks weren't up to the required standard, how logical is it to think the leftovers will be? (by 'required standard' I dont mean by your values, but t.hose of the general public).

Very well said.

Sometimes I want to take these "a box set of the leftover Bucket/Finck/Brain tracks would be killer" people and just shake them until they wise up.

No one cares. There is zero market for such a thing.

[wasted]

I would day a deluxe edition of CD with a few extra tracks and new booklet is a option.

[Apollo]

I would day a deluxe edition of CD with a few extra tracks and new booklet is a option.

But why wish so low?

15-minutes after looking at a new booklet......what joy does it give you?

This band has released one album since Axl took over, and that was over five years ago.

An EP with eight new songs.

A full length studio album.

A double album - one album of remaining CD songs, one album written by the new band.

A box set.

At this stage of the game, Axl re-releasing CD with a couple new tracks would be the worst thing he could do. Well, releasing a hip-hop remix of the album would be the worst thing he could release, but you get my point.

He has a ton of leftover music from the CD sessions.

He has band members who write all the time and who are eager to write/record with him.

He has millions of fans out there desperately wishing for new music.

So why not release music?

[shannen]

what will solve all problems and undoubtedly will usher in world peace is unsolicited advice from inexperienced and long winded fans.

[chokes]

Chokes, numbers can be made to look interesting depending on what context they are used.

AC/DC's album was released in October and it sold almost three times as many world wide copies as CD did.

CD was the 14th highest selling album of 2008? Guess what the 15th one did, and just use that as a comparison to CD.

15th place sold 5 million copies, almost 50% more than CD.

15th place debuted at number one and produced three top 20 singles, including a number one song and a song that reached number 3.

So yes. The album that was the most anticipated album of all time, that was also the most expensive rock album ever made (14 million dollars)....had a pretty strong opening month. Didn't debut at number one, but had a strong opening month - no doubt. But what happened after that? It sank and fell off the charts, while albums like ACDC and most of the other guys in the top 20 saw their albums continue to sell well. Beoynce's album was considered a bit of a flop for her and it ended up selling 8 million (12th on 2008 list). 13th place Pink sold five million copies. 15th place Britney sold 5 million copies.

Just the fact that the 13th and 15th place artist's albums both sold almost 50% more than CD did over the next couple of years.......And AC/DC tripled CDs numbers.

You have to use all the facts when deciding if an album was successful or not.

14 million dollars for a GnR album that people had been talking about for over a decade - 3.5 million albums sold does not equal a "Massive Commercial Success".....no matter how many times you want to lie about it.

The album did OK. Not as well as anybody involved with it hoped - clearly Axl and the Label assumed it would do way better.

Groghan unless you can provide any source you are refuting my substantiated with your opinion

Chokes, numbers can be made to look interesting depending on what context they are used.

AC/DC's album was released in October and it sold almost three times as many world wide copies as CD did.

CD was the 14th highest selling album of 2008? Guess what the 15th one did, and just use that as a comparison to CD.

15th place sold 5 million copies, almost 50% more than CD.

15th place debuted at number one and produced three top 20 singles, including a number one song and a song that reached number 3.

So yes. The album that was the most anticipated album of all time, that was also the most expensive rock album ever made (14 million dollars)....had a pretty strong opening month. Didn't debut at number one, but had a strong opening month - no doubt. But what happened after that? It sank and fell off the charts, while albums like ACDC and most of the other guys in the top 20 saw their albums continue to sell well. Beoynce's album was considered a bit of a flop for her and it ended up selling 8 million (12th on 2008 list). 13th place Pink sold five million copies. 15th place Britney sold 5 million copies.

Just the fact that the 13th and 15th place artist's albums both sold almost 50% more than CD did over the next couple of years.......And AC/DC tripled CDs numbers.

You have to use all the facts when deciding if an album was successful or not.

14 million dollars for a GnR album that people had been talking about for over a decade - 3.5 million albums sold does not equal a "Massive Commercial Success".....no matter how many times you want to lie about it.

The album did OK. Not as well as anybody involved with it hoped - clearly Axl and the Label assumed it would do way better.

Groghan you are refuting the facts I provided with your opinions and assumptions, unless you can provide me with any proof to back up any of your claims I have to call them bullshit.

Show me evidence to back up your claim that the albums in 13th or 15th place moved double as many albums as CD. I myself have not made any claims as to album sales for CD as there is no data available and I don't want to make any assumptions or leaps of faith in the same way I think you have, that's what leads to the persistent misinformation in posts like yours.

If you aren't going to provide any evidence and just write another long post full of assumptions and strawman arguments just don't bother.

[Apollo]

Chokes, numbers can be made to look interesting depending on what context they are used.

AC/DC's album was released in October and it sold almost three times as many world wide copies as CD did.

CD was the 14th highest selling album of 2008? Guess what the 15th one did, and just use that as a comparison to CD.

15th place sold 5 million copies, almost 50% more than CD.

15th place debuted at number one and produced three top 20 singles, including a number one song and a song that reached number 3.

So yes. The album that was the most anticipated album of all time, that was also the most expensive rock album ever made (14 million dollars)....had a pretty strong opening month. Didn't debut at number one, but had a strong opening month - no doubt. But what happened after that? It sank and fell off the charts, while albums like ACDC and most of the other guys in the top 20 saw their albums continue to sell well. Beoynce's album was considered a bit of a flop for her and it ended up selling 8 million (12th on 2008 list). 13th place Pink sold five million copies. 15th place Britney sold 5 million copies.

Just the fact that the 13th and 15th place artist's albums both sold almost 50% more than CD did over the next couple of years.......And AC/DC tripled CDs numbers.

You have to use all the facts when deciding if an album was successful or not.

14 million dollars for a GnR album that people had been talking about for over a decade - 3.5 million albums sold does not equal a "Massive Commercial Success".....no matter how many times you want to lie about it.

The album did OK. Not as well as anybody involved with it hoped - clearly Axl and the Label assumed it would do way better.

Groghan unless you can provide any source you are refuting my substantiated with your opinion

Chokes, numbers can be made to look interesting depending on what context they are used.

AC/DC's album was released in October and it sold almost three times as many world wide copies as CD did.

CD was the 14th highest selling album of 2008? Guess what the 15th one did, and just use that as a comparison to CD.

15th place sold 5 million copies, almost 50% more than CD.

15th place debuted at number one and produced three top 20 singles, including a number one song and a song that reached number 3.

So yes. The album that was the most anticipated album of all time, that was also the most expensive rock album ever made (14 million dollars)....had a pretty strong opening month. Didn't debut at number one, but had a strong opening month - no doubt. But what happened after that? It sank and fell off the charts, while albums like ACDC and most of the other guys in the top 20 saw their albums continue to sell well. Beoynce's album was considered a bit of a flop for her and it ended up selling 8 million (12th on 2008 list). 13th place Pink sold five million copies. 15th place Britney sold 5 million copies.

Just the fact that the 13th and 15th place artist's albums both sold almost 50% more than CD did over the next couple of years.......And AC/DC tripled CDs numbers.

You have to use all the facts when deciding if an album was successful or not.

14 million dollars for a GnR album that people had been talking about for over a decade - 3.5 million albums sold does not equal a "Massive Commercial Success".....no matter how many times you want to lie about it.

The album did OK. Not as well as anybody involved with it hoped - clearly Axl and the Label assumed it would do way better.

Groghan you are refuting the facts I provided with your opinions and assumptions, unless you can provide me with any proof to back up any of your claims I have to call them bullshit.

Show me evidence to back up your claim that the albums in 13th or 15th place moved double as many albums as CD. I myself have not made any claims as to album sales for CD as there is no data available and I don't want to make any assumptions or leaps of faith in the same way I think you have, that's what leads to the persistent misinformation in posts like yours.

If you aren't going to provide any evidence and just write another long post full of assumptions and strawman arguments just don't bother.

Sigh.

What are you talking about? Strawman arguments?

Maybe you are correct. I just looked at the Billboard numbers.

You provided numbers from an organization, I provided numbers from an organization.

But yours are fact and mine are assumptions and strawman arguments? Ok fella.

I'm not here to argue and fight with you. If you want to have a discussion about the band or the numbers or anything else, I'll gladly participate. But if you are just here to fight, insult, etc - choose somebody else.

Good luck to you. Keep fighting hard enough, keep insulting enough people, and eventually I'm sure you'll convince everybody that in terms of chart rankings, CD was a smashing success.

You think a label spending 14 million dollars on an album that sold around 3 million copies is a huge success.

99.99% of the rest of the world disagrees with you.

But hey.....we're talking about Axl, right? So it must be a success.

[shannen]

Chokes, numbers can be made to look interesting depending on what context they are used.

AC/DC's album was released in October and it sold almost three times as many world wide copies as CD did.

CD was the 14th highest selling album of 2008? Guess what the 15th one did, and just use that as a comparison to CD.

15th place sold 5 million copies, almost 50% more than CD.

15th place debuted at number one and produced three top 20 singles, including a number one song and a song that reached number 3.

So yes. The album that was the most anticipated album of all time, that was also the most expensive rock album ever made (14 million dollars)....had a pretty strong opening month. Didn't debut at number one, but had a strong opening month - no doubt. But what happened after that? It sank and fell off the charts, while albums like ACDC and most of the other guys in the top 20 saw their albums continue to sell well. Beoynce's album was considered a bit of a flop for her and it ended up selling 8 million (12th on 2008 list). 13th place Pink sold five million copies. 15th place Britney sold 5 million copies.

Just the fact that the 13th and 15th place artist's albums both sold almost 50% more than CD did over the next couple of years.......And AC/DC tripled CDs numbers.

You have to use all the facts when deciding if an album was successful or not.

14 million dollars for a GnR album that people had been talking about for over a decade - 3.5 million albums sold does not equal a "Massive Commercial Success".....no matter how many times you want to lie about it.

The album did OK. Not as well as anybody involved with it hoped - clearly Axl and the Label assumed it would do way better.

Groghan unless you can provide any source you are refuting my substantiated with your opinion

Chokes, numbers can be made to look interesting depending on what context they are used.

AC/DC's album was released in October and it sold almost three times as many world wide copies as CD did.

CD was the 14th highest selling album of 2008? Guess what the 15th one did, and just use that as a comparison to CD.

15th place sold 5 million copies, almost 50% more than CD.

15th place debuted at number one and produced three top 20 singles, including a number one song and a song that reached number 3.

So yes. The album that was the most anticipated album of all time, that was also the most expensive rock album ever made (14 million dollars)....had a pretty strong opening month. Didn't debut at number one, but had a strong opening month - no doubt. But what happened after that? It sank and fell off the charts, while albums like ACDC and most of the other guys in the top 20 saw their albums continue to sell well. Beoynce's album was considered a bit of a flop for her and it ended up selling 8 million (12th on 2008 list). 13th place Pink sold five million copies. 15th place Britney sold 5 million copies.

Just the fact that the 13th and 15th place artist's albums both sold almost 50% more than CD did over the next couple of years.......And AC/DC tripled CDs numbers.

You have to use all the facts when deciding if an album was successful or not.

14 million dollars for a GnR album that people had been talking about for over a decade - 3.5 million albums sold does not equal a "Massive Commercial Success".....no matter how many times you want to lie about it.

The album did OK. Not as well as anybody involved with it hoped - clearly Axl and the Label assumed it would do way better.

Groghan you are refuting the facts I provided with your opinions and assumptions, unless you can provide me with any proof to back up any of your claims I have to call them bullshit.

Show me evidence to back up your claim that the albums in 13th or 15th place moved double as many albums as CD. I myself have not made any claims as to album sales for CD as there is no data available and I don't want to make any assumptions or leaps of faith in the same way I think you have, that's what leads to the persistent misinformation in posts like yours.

If you aren't going to provide any evidence and just write another long post full of assumptions and strawman arguments just don't bother.

Agree.

[estrangedtwat]

From Skwerl's article:

As of February 6, 2009, the total US Sales of the album had only reached 537,000.

That kids, is a fucking FLOP.

[Apollo]

Chokes.......I decided to play your little game. Hopefully you can respond to just the facts and without the smartass comments.

http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums-2008.htm

http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums-2009.htm

http://gagadaily.com/index.php?showtopic=37295

This took about three minutes to look up.

The first chart lists - with album sales - the top 40 for 2008. You'll find that Pink sold 2.5 million, Britney sold 2.1 million and GnR sold 1.6 million.

Then look at the end of the year list for 2009. You'll see that Pink sold 2.6, Britney sold 1.3 and GnR didn't make the top 40 - meaning CD sold under 1 million.

For the sake of the argument, let's say GnR sold 500,000 in 2009.

That would make the two year total:

Pink 5 million

Britney 3.4 million

GnR 2.1 million

Unless you or I can look at the label's actual accounting numbers, all we can base sales numbers on is what we find on the internet. A couple years back somebody actually took the time to add up the number of albums CD sold in all the various countries and came up with a total that had to be pretty accurate. The general consensus is that CD sold between 3 and 3.5 million copies.

Any rock band selling 3.5 million copies of an album release in the past five years should be pretty happy with those totals.

But an album that cost 14 million dollars to make, I guarantee you that the label and Axl BOTH thought it would sell at least double that amount. And that nobody within Axl's camp or at the record label is looking at CD like it was a smashing success. Why you are arguing this point is baffling.

CD is my favorite album of the last ten years. I think it's the best rock album of the last decade. But in terms of sales figures and commercial success - it clearly wasn't a smashing success. No matter how badly you want it to be. And that shouldn't effect how much you enjoy listening to the album.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Groghan

[classicrawker]

I thought this old article from 2008 summed things up pretty well

8 reasons why Chinese Democracy stiffed And Axl Rose himself is part of the problem

Joe Bosso and Michael Leonard

December 04, 2008, 16:25 UTC

It was perhaps no surprise that The Killers' album Day & Age beat Guns N' Roses' Chinese Democracy to Number 1 in the UK.

But the failure of Guns N' Roses to hit top spot in the US, where the band's first album is a staple of classic rock stations from coast to coast, is more of a surprise.

And what's going to hurt more is that Chinese Democracy didn't even come close to the Number 1 spot. Figures from the US reveal that the Top 3 sales for the current chart were:

1. Kanye West: 808s And Heartbreak – 450,000
2. Taylor Swift: Fearless - 267,000
3. Guns N' Roses: Chinese Democracy - 261,000

That's still a decent sale in tough times, but AC/DC's Black Ice, the first album from the band in seven years, shifted 784,000 copies in its opening week. As with Chinese Democracy's exclusive distribution via Best Buy, Black Ice went out only through Wal-Mart.

Geffen is "frustrated"

There are already reports of grumblings around the GN'R camp about the Best Buy deal and its (lack of) promotion, though it's also been noted how Axl Rose has done no promotion whatsoever himself on his record.

True, Axl Rose is threatening to sue Dr Pepper for 'misusing' the band name in their recent giveaway promotion, but that's hardly the same as making the late-night talk show rounds and giving interviews to the music press.

"You would have thought after spending 15 years on an album you might do a few weeks promotion"

Geffen insider

"The label is really glad to have him back," says an insider at Geffen Records. "But it is frustrating because the album would have had a much better chance of going to Number 1 if he had only been prepared to show his face. You would have thought after spending 15 years on an album you might do a few weeks promotion."

Yes, you would think that. But when it comes to Axl Rose, little makes much sense. So without further ado, here are...

MusicRadar's 8 reasons why Chinese Democracy has stiffed

1. You took too long, Axl

As noted, 15 years is an awful long time to make an audience wait for a new album. "People forgot about him" says Gary Cee, program director for the classic rock station WPDH in Poughkeepsie, New York.

"Axl Rose doesn't seem to exist anymore"

Gary Cee of classic rock station WPDH

"He doesn't seem to exist anymore. AC/DC, Metallica - the audience has a sense that they're doing things, there's a connection there. With Guns N' Roses, there's no connection anymore."

2. Chinese Democracy isn't a masterpiece

Cluttered, unfocused and bloated, Chinese Democracy makes The Spaghetti Incident sound like a classic. Trad Guns N' Roses fans don't want dated (as in, recorded in 1998) attempts at industrial nu-metal. They want Guns N' Roses, as in killer guitar riffs, slam-o hooks and unadulterated, hair-raising vocals. Axl, you forgot that bit over the years.

3. 'Guns N' Roses' isn't Guns N' Roses

The fans who adore Appetite For Destruction revel in the sound of a real live band, in Slash's gnarly riffs and solos, in the sweaty and sometimes sloppy band interplay that felt magical.

Buckethead: scary?

More than that, they want to visualize the band making that beautiful racket - that is to say, Slash, Duff and Izzy (the drummer, we're not so sure which one music fans care about). Buckethead and Bumblefoot are fine players, but audiences haven't embraced what little they've seen of them. In fact, Buckethead seems to scare them.

Tellingly, a straw poll in the MusicRadar office reveals that no-one can successfully name all nine musicians who are allegedly current GN'R members.

4. Too much ill will over the years

Back in the day, Axl was notorious for making it on stage two, three hours late for concerts. People who've paid hard cash for a show don't like stunts like that, and they remember. The best bands know the deal: get on stage on time, play your hits, tell the audience you're happy they came. It works. Acting as though you're doing the crowd a favor by showing up...uh-uh.

5. Madagascar

Guns N' Roses play Madagascar at the MTV awards 2002. It begins at 2:54.

To much fanfare, Axl and his new GN'R lineup (since changed again) played this song at the MTV Awards back in 2002. The response was overwhelmingly negative, yet of the 50 or so songs Axl had floating around, he still deemed it necessary to include this epic clunker on Chinese Democracy. Unfortunately for Axl, it has the kind of title one remembers.

6. The tunes don't work for radio

On mainstream and classic rock stations where older Guns N' Roses songs receive regular rotation, Chinese Democracy's title track has flatlined. "I'm not talking about a bad reaction," says Gary Cee. "I'm talking no reaction! I only give it a few spins a week now. Meanwhile, people call and ask for November Rain, Civil War, Paradise City - the old stuff. This new record? Not one phone call." The Chinese Democracy single peaked at only #34 on Billboard's Hot 100 chart.

7. The cornrows and shaving of the eyebrows

Axl, you never had a truly great hairstyle, but c'mon, don't go out of your way to look weird. Age gracefully. Hire a stylist.

8. Best Buy

Best Buy staff stock the album displays. No rush yet...

Not the best idea. When MusicRadar dropped in during the first on-sale date, there seemed to be little to no interest in the album. And aside from one poster and a small display, there was no sense that an 'event' was taking place. The wrong retail outlet? Perhaps. The Eagles and AC/DC apparently did their research, which showed that their fans shopped at Wal-Mart stores. Where did it come up in market analysis that Best Buy shoppers were Guns N' Roses fans?

Bottom line: after 15 years, Chinese Democracy shouldn't be an album music fans should have to go out of their way to find. It should be everywhere. It should be available at Dunkin' Donuts. It should be on sale at the local hardware store. Not every town has a Best Buy, but every town has a McDonalds. A copy of Chinese Democracy with a Happy Meal? Hey, it couldn't hurt.

What all these factors have hurt is the sales of the decade's most anticipated album. Only time will tell if Chinese Democracy recovers...

http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/8-reasons-why-chinese-democracy-stiffed-185604

Edited January 6, 2014 by classicrawker