Did Guns N' Roses really save us from 'The 80's' - synth music and spandex rock

[Snake-Pit]

did Guns N' Roses do that?

Did Guns N' Roses really help?

or did I just make that up?

iDK, after saying it so much, it's hard to tell what is real and what is not now, with it and this particular fact/'fact'.

[The Real McCoy]

[Rovim]

Nope. Helped us to get away from pop metal until alternative rock came along and baffled Axl and Guns didn't know how to move forward while still being relevant after Illusions.

Lady Gaga and other really mainstream hit makers are using synth pop formulas from the 80's again while adding a few industrial and techno elements it seems to work for the mainstream. At least for now.

With Chinese, Axl kinda gave his artistic answer to where he wanted to take Guns musically 20 years ago. Synth pop.

Kidding. He incorporated many of the sounds of the bands he liked that came with or after Guns in the 90's. He kept some Guns elements and found a way to come up with something new for Guns or really, his solo take on Guns, but it wasn't new to music, or to the world.

What Chinese was aimed at imo wasn't to be relevant, just incorporate Axl's favorite elements from other musical places and to marry it with some of his Guns ballads and a few rockers. The shred thing was kinda similar in that way: he likes that kind of guitar playing and wanted to still keep some of Slash's sound elements to make it soulful, melodic, and bluesy.

In my opinion, Better is the best example of the best of both worlds: the old and the new, and how they fit together. It has many of the old Guns elements, but many new things to Guns as well, and it all works really well.

Guns didn't save anything, but it refined many old ideas into something fresh that had balls and musicality.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Rovim

[bran]

did Guns N' Roses do that?

Did Guns N' Roses really help?

or did I just make that up?

iDK, after saying it so much, it's hard to tell what is real and what is not now, with it and this particular fact/'fact'.

no they did not help, if they did the glam phase would have died right then and there in 1987.

[Strange Broue]

Paradise City contains synth!!!!!1111!one!!!

I don't know what Spandex Rock is

anyway Chinese Democracy contains synths so Axl flushed down the toilet this object as well

[bigcountry]

To me GNR was the perfect band at the perfect time.

Music then was all about trying to putting a pretty face out there to help with the LP sales or the bands tried to pull off the bad boy route with limited success because they where poseurs that people didn't respect. There are exceptions but for the most part that is how I felt about the music scene back

Then there was GNR they broke the mold they where not pretty boy band and neither was there music it was a breathe of fresh air. A band that was dirty, mean, didn't give a fuck what anyone said and they where also a train wreck waiting to happen back then and people want that.

GNR really to me reinvented the hair band ballads and SCOM was born and took the world by storm. Yes it maybe considered a ballad but the guitars added alot of teeth to the song which is way it was different.

I remember seeing the ritz concert about 2-3 times a week on MTV, they where a band that done things how they wanted no matter the consequences or what the managers, record company or anyone else that said they had to do more low key.

I don't think the alternative movement was going to hurt GNR like it did some of the other 80's bands because Axl for one was never doing the status quo and keep pushing the GNR sound beyond what the last album and that was what I think would have keep them one of the biggest rock bands out there, but that also it what broke the band up because I feel Slash wanted to get back to the AFD sound. If they where to release a clone of AFD they would have been setting themselves up for failure because there is only one AFD and they would have ripped to shreds.

A band has to change and evolve to stay in the top 5-10 bands in the world no matter what genre is popular bands like GNR could have had the type of sound like The Rolling Stones you hear the music and you automatically know who it is and give it a good hard listen before you dismiss it.

Bottom line on the alternative movement it didn't kill GNR, GNR killed it's self by braking up. It isn't like they released a NEW studio album of all new material in '95 that didn't sell they just couldn't come together on the direction of the band and with 2 big egos like Slash and Axl it was only a matter of time before they parted ways.

[combos]

did Guns N' Roses do that?

Did Guns N' Roses really help?

or did I just make that up?

iDK, after saying it so much, it's hard to tell what is real and what is not now, with it and this particular fact/'fact'.

Guns N Roses was the bridge but Seattle and Nirvana were the ACTUAL changing of the guard.

[wasted]

From a mainstream chronology using myself as an example. I had Hysteria, then AFD kind of added danger and excitement to rock again. Then Nirvana was like the next step. The natural progression towards rawer and louder rock and then having some more political angle. GNR was the grenade that went off in room. Alt rock was the sas team that kicked the door in and secured the area. I'm not sure how much the media kind of guided or let this happen. They seemed to use alt rock to discount GNR.

[combos]

From a mainstream chronology using myself as an example. I had Hysteria, then AFD kind of added danger and excitement to rock again. Then Nirvana was like the next step. The natural progression towards rawer and louder rock and then having some more political angle. GNR was the grenade that went off in room. Alt rock was the sas team that kicked the door in and secured the area. I'm not sure how much the media kind of guided or let this happen. They seemed to use alt rock to discount GNR.

Well, GNR had a modern classic rock feel and it's look was old too. I don't think the media played them that way it just sort of happened naturally. I mean, think about it. Listen to Pearl Jam's Jeremy and then listen to November Rain. It's so night and day.

Edited December 14, 2014 by combos

[EvH]

No.

[nico_france]

in a way, yes Gnr give back to the world the essence of rock... sure you had good bands like whitesnake or def leppard and while they have good music, it felt pale in comparaison to GNR... Gnr maybe changed something because it gived us a taste of real rock... it was like grunge before time in terms of attitude... the music was agressive but grooving, the guitars were screaming loud but it was different from all these thrash bands like metallica, anthrax... Gnr was like a comet, in few years they become the biggest rock band of their time. After, yes, it is a story of self destruction...

[dalsh327]

The thing is, Bon Jovi and Motley Crue had their biggest hits after Appetite was out there.

GNR wasn't a "power ballad" band the way Journey was, but they were doing "Don't Cry" pretty far back, so it wasn't unexpected. To me a "glam metal band" is Dokken. When I listened to Tesla recently, they get lumped in as a glam band but I didn't hear it. Faster Pussycat and Slaughter I guess would be in the glam genre.

Black Crowes had the Stones (and Faces) throwback sound way more than GNR. I guess Georgia Satellites was another band but they sounded more like George Thorogood.

[J Dog]

Nevermind saved us from it. AFD just kicked it's ass.

[acor]

Nevermind saved us from it. AFD just kicked it's ass.

Nevermind sucks. I'd take EVERY hair metal band over Gayvana.

[Rovim]

From a mainstream chronology using myself as an example. I had Hysteria, then AFD kind of added danger and excitement to rock again. Then Nirvana was like the next step. The natural progression towards rawer and louder rock and then having some more political angle. GNR was the grenade that went off in room. Alt rock was the sas team that kicked the door in and secured the area. I'm not sure how much the media kind of guided or let this happen. They seemed to use alt rock to discount GNR.

As a guitar player, I think of it like what a Les Paul represents vs. a Strat: the LP is quite traditional compared to the more modern Strat, but they're serving different purposes that can co exist and do.

Guns took a more traditional approach. The roots of the sound here takes cues also from classic rock elements and the Guns twist was always fresh enough to make it relevant.

Nirvana was the new shit. You knew it was real, basic, and primal without always going for what also sounds perfect and/or pretty like Guns always went for, yet AFD stands together with Nevermind as 2 different yet equally important interpretations of reflecting exactly who you are through guitar driven rock n' roll.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Rovim

[J Dog]

Nevermind saved us from it. AFD just kicked it's ass.

Nevermind sucks. I'd take EVERY hair metal band over Gayvana.

Whether me or you like them or not doesn't really matter. Saved is an opinionated word, but the fact is Nevermind came, all that stuff went.

Edited December 14, 2014 by J Dog

[nico_france]

Guns took a more traditional approach. The roots of the sound here takes cues also from classic rock elements and the Guns twist was always fresh enough to make it relevant.

Nirvana was the new shit. You knew it was real, basic, and primal without always going for what also sounds perfect and/or pretty like Guns always went for, yet AFD stands together with Nevermind as 2 different yet equally important interpretations of reflecting exactly who you are through guitar driven rock n' roll.

Personnaly I see Gnr both traditional and modern because there is the 'classic rock' vibe in Gnr music but also a punk vibe (AFD or many hard rock songs in UYI) and the modern touch is also very present in UYI... and as a guitar player myself too I would say the guitar parts in Gnr are far more interesting than in Nirvana (that I like too)

Edited December 14, 2014 by nico_france

[Rovim]

Guns took a more traditional approach. The roots of the sound here takes cues also from classic rock elements and the Guns twist was always fresh enough to make it relevant.

Nirvana was the new shit. You knew it was real, basic, and primal without always going for what also sounds perfect and/or pretty like Guns always went for, yet AFD stands together with Nevermind as 2 different yet equally important interpretations of reflecting exactly who you are through guitar driven rock n' roll.

Personnaly I see Gnr both traditional and modern because there is the 'classic rock' vibe in Gnr music but also a punk vibe (AFD or many hard rock songs in UYI) and the modern touch is also very present in UYI... and as a guitar player myself too I would say the guitar parts in Gnr are far more interesting than in Nirvana (that I like too)

Far more interesting, detailed, and Slash's guitar sound is perfect (Izzy's too) on Appetite. Classic Slash tone on Illusion cuts like November Rain, Estranged, and Civil War. "The art of guitar" Axl calls it.

[nico_france]

Far more interesting, detailed, and Slash's guitar sound is perfect (Izzy's too) on Appetite. Classic Slash tone on Illusion cuts like November Rain, Estranged, and Civil War. "The art of guitar" Axl calls it.

I couldn't more agree on the guitar sound (and parts) of Slash and Izzy on AFD ... just perfect

[Val22]

Yes. Before GNR there were so many "hair metal" bands, which was okay, but GNR brought the dirty back in rock and roll. They were the "rolling stones" of the late 80's.

I think Motley Crue was one of the bands to take people away from the early 80's bands and brought the rock back and away from keyboards.

But GNR was the rock band who brought back, sex, drugs and rock and roll to the fullest. They wrote the music and lived the lifestyle back then.

[DieselDaisy]

I see them as a sort of aesthetic bridge between the outright hair bands and what happened in the early '90s, with on the one hand The Black Crowes, and on the other hand, (coincidentally, perhaps), grunge. Guns were sort of, partially 'hair' themselves (e.g. Back off Bitch), but partially had their toes in punk and Stonesy rock. They had a raw bluesy 1970s sound and a back-to-basics production. They also had more attitude. So the period following Appetite does show a new incentive to strip down the sound - even with some of the bonafide hair bands like Kiss on Hot in the Shade who began wearing leather jackets again and putting away the spandex. You can certainly see a slight difference between, 1986, and 1988 - and Appetite was the main instigator of that. You also had old rockers like Neil Young (e.g. Freedom and Ragged Glory) getting their mojo back; even the Stones on Steel Wheels. So Guns are part of a small, late 1980s rock revival, circa 1987-1990, which sees a new incentive to strip down things and get rid of 1980s gloss and sheen and lipstick.

But then when grunge arrived it seemed so much more revolutionary and dramatic. People have a tendency to not see these little pre-grunge aesthetic changes, and merely placing everything Kurt's door. And grunge was revolutionary and deserves that reputation as a, 'year 0', of music but that does not mean we should ignore the changes underway by Appetite. There is a reason Appetite still holds up, whereas Look What the Cat Drowned in sounds dated.

The sad thing is, Guns become this really bloated operation and their singer was acting like a dick so they in turn, looked dated themselves when 1991 hit. It did not inherently have to be that way: If the cheesy 10 minute videos, overdubs and Axl's rather odd stage outfits had never surfaced - if they managed to retain Izzy's and Izzy's spirit and Izzy's integrity and not arsed around with inflatables, Guns might have weathered the storms of grunge better than they actually did.

Edited December 14, 2014 by DieselDaisy

[wasted]

From a mainstream chronology using myself as an example. I had Hysteria, then AFD kind of added danger and excitement to rock again. Then Nirvana was like the next step. The natural progression towards rawer and louder rock and then having some more political angle. GNR was the grenade that went off in room. Alt rock was the sas team that kicked the door in and secured the area. I'm not sure how much the media kind of guided or let this happen. They seemed to use alt rock to discount GNR.

Well, GNR had a modern classic rock feel and it's look was old too. I don't think the media played them that way it just sort of happened naturally. I mean, think about it. Listen to Pearl Jam's Jeremy and then listen to November Rain. It's so night and day.

I think GNR kind of showed to the labels that a rawer sound could be more successful. And the media were ready to sell the debauchery stories. Guns became a bit ugly but it's really just like another spin on the 70s. Pearl jam, Soundgarden, Chains any of those bands had their base in the 70s. But it's more Sabbath or Zepp. But there were all those bands bred on 70s rock

Pearl jam are like Neil Young - the rock band.

Guns blasted a hole but could have run concurrently with the grunge bands. But kind of as the villains. The media found bands with conscience more palatable.

[wasted]

From a mainstream chronology using myself as an example. I had Hysteria, then AFD kind of added danger and excitement to rock again. Then Nirvana was like the next step. The natural progression towards rawer and louder rock and then having some more political angle. GNR was the grenade that went off in room. Alt rock was the sas team that kicked the door in and secured the area. I'm not sure how much the media kind of guided or let this happen. They seemed to use alt rock to discount GNR.

Well, GNR had a modern classic rock feel and it's look was old too. I don't think the media played them that way it just sort of happened naturally. I mean, think about it. Listen to Pearl Jam's Jeremy and then listen to November Rain. It's so night and day.

I think GNR kind of showed to the labels that a rawer sound could be more successful. And the media were ready to sell the debauchery stories. Guns became a bit ugly but it's really just like another spin on the 70s. Pearl jam, Soundgarden, Chains any of those bands had their base in the 70s. But it's more Sabbath or Zepp. But there were all those bands bred on 70s rock

Pearl jam are like Neil Young - the rock band.

Guns blasted a hole but could have run concurrently with the grunge bands. But kind of as the villains. The media found bands with conscience more palatable.

[wasted]

From a mainstream chronology using myself as an example. I had Hysteria, then AFD kind of added danger and excitement to rock again. Then Nirvana was like the next step. The natural progression towards rawer and louder rock and then having some more political angle. GNR was the grenade that went off in room. Alt rock was the sas team that kicked the door in and secured the area. I'm not sure how much the media kind of guided or let this happen. They seemed to use alt rock to discount GNR.

As a guitar player, I think of it like what a Les Paul represents vs. a Strat: the LP is quite traditional compared to the more modern Strat, but they're serving different purposes that can co exist and do.

Guns took a more traditional approach. The roots of the sound here takes cues also from classic rock elements and the Guns twist was always fresh enough to make it relevant.

Nirvana was the new shit. You knew it was real, basic, and primal without always going for what also sounds perfect and/or pretty like Guns always went for, yet AFD stands together with Nevermind as 2 different yet equally important interpretations of reflecting exactly who you are through guitar driven rock n' roll.

To me Guns were classic hard rock meets punk rock with the kind of approach of a thrash band. But they definitely evolved and expanded on that.

Nirvana is like Sabbath meets The Beatles but still a very punk rock ethos.

But all those bands were mixing hard rock and punk.

To me ACDC is a bit more commercial than Sabbath and mix that with Axls Elton Mercury songs it's just a much more commercial deal.

It's hard to say whether GNR was the end of the 80s or the start of the 90s.

Geffen did start signing a lot more alt bands though after AFD. Sonic Youth and Nirvana got deals. Ever band got a deal basically because GNR showed you could sell outlaw again.

I think I would side with the genius of AFD to make pretty tried and tested music seem seductively exciting again. You could sell bundles of records with bondage, heroin and violence. So you could give some stoners from Seattle a record deal. I think that's as callous as the rock industry was.

[wasted]

My guess is that what we are talking about is the slow process of punk being accepted liked by the mainstream. Hair bands had that element in their attitude sometimes but it was hidden behind glam image. Guns smuggled it in behind MTV ballads. Nirvana really put it out there even more. Maybe Green Day made it commercial.