killuridols Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, SoulMonster said: Even more fucked up than calling someone fat, ugly and old? You okay with that? I have no idea... .... Maybe you could ask your idol Axl, he's good at calling people all sorts of discriminatory words. You know the N word, the F word and such... The guy is a jewel Am I okay with it? Man, I am okay with karma 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, killuridols said: I have no idea... .... Maybe you could ask your idol Axl, he's good at calling people all sorts of discriminatory words. You know the N word, the F word and such... The guy is a jewel Am I okay with it? Man, I am okay with karma Why do you think Axl is my idol? Because I find it hypocritical that someone would complain about how women are treated here and in the same breath would call another member out for being fat, ugly and old? This has nothing to do with protecting Axl, but questioning you. Karma you say? So if a female member here at some time in her life said something not nice to someone else, then according to you I would be entirely fine with calling her "fat, ugly, and old" in some form of third-party reprisal? Because, you know, karma? That's an interesting way to live. Personally, I prefer to treat everybody the same and to avoid ageist, fat-shaming and ad hominem personal attacks based on looks. Call me old-fashioned, orr, I suppose, old....fat and ugly. The exception is of course bantering which I am still trying to learn, like when I make fun of Len's speech impediment, McCoy's minuteness, or Luke's baldness. But it is all done with love, you know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Quote Karma you say? So if a female member here at some time in her life said something not nice to someone else, then according to you I would be entirely fine with calling her "fat, ugly, and old" in some form of third-party reprisal? Because, you know, karma? If the not nice thing is almost identical in the two instances that changes the complexion of this hypothesis somewhat. It would be difficult to feel bad for example if some black guy broke Axls teeth around the time One in a Million came out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 34 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: Why do you think Axl is my idol? Because I find it hypocritical that someone would complain about how women are treated here and in the same breath would call another member out for being fat, ugly and old? This has nothing to do with protecting Axl, but questioning you. Because everybody here assume shit about each other for free and it doesn't look like it's a big deal, is it?... I mean, is it so bad that I call him your idol? If you think this is hypocritical then it must be. How to explain to you that...... ? 39 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: Karma you say? So if a female member here at some time in her life said something not nice to someone else, then according to you I would be entirely fine with calling her "fat, ugly, and old" in some form of third-party reprisal? Because, you know, karma? That's an interesting way to live. Well.... Of course, people who do wrong in life, sooner or later will feel the wrath of those who were mistreated by them, or discriminated, or abused. It has nothing to do with gender. You can do whatever you want.... why should I follow your code of conduct? Why should anyone feel and think exactly as you do? It is okay if you don't believe in karma. 47 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: Personally, I prefer to treat everybody the same and to avoid ageist, fat-shaming and ad hominem personal attacks based on looks. Call me old-fashioned, orr, I suppose, old....fat and ugly. Fine... and? How about you lecture this to Rose too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, lukepowell1988 said: I really wish someone did do that. What gave him the right to think he could call people hooray for tolerance!s .. fucking twat I don't mind it personally, I think art should be free and, on some level, I kinda applaud people that are brave enough or nutty enough to do shit like that, its just there are consequences in life and you can't hold it against some black geezer or gay geezer or immigrant to stick one on him after that. What I disliked more was the excuses me made afterwards. If he'd've just gone 'yeah, its about a place and time in my life that I felt that way', thats fair enough, I wouldn't find fault with that...its the silly way he tried to like, justify it like 'the bit about immigrants is cuz some bloke chased me and Slash out of a cornershop with a cleaver' or 'a bender tried to shag me once so thats what the gay bits about' or 'black people call themselves n!ggers, look at NWA'. The original explanation was kinda acceptable to my eyes, and gutsy to put out as a song because, look, we all know there are racists and racist sentiments out there, why should it not be put out there in art? I honestly don't think Axls intention was to promote prejudice, the songs just about a time and a place in his life but as with all big mouthed people they over-cook shit and end up baiting themselves up. I mean who among us can stand up and say they've never said or thought a racist thing? I'm sure some people haven't, I am not one of those and like...how can something ever really be like...dealt with unless we bring it out in the open, especially in the field of art which is supposed to be this free thing. And to a point I do think there's an element of deliberate courting of controversy there, I don't buy that whole caught off guard by the furore act, I mean the album cover itself has almost like an apology for the song on it so there is a degree of the stitch up here too, he knew what he was doing, he can't be that fuckin' dim, living on the streets of L.A. in the 80s, NWAs LA, Watts riots LA (though that was later by a few years, still the same social climate) that he didn't know that shit would seriously ruffle some feathers. Its probably my favourite GnR song actually cuz it makes me think the most, I just wish he hadn't've been so mealey mouthed and pussy-ish in his later explanations of it. Edited March 25, 2019 by Len Cnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 34 minutes ago, killuridols said: Because everybody here assume shit about each other for free and it doesn't look like it's a big deal, is it?... I mean, is it so bad that I call him your idol? If you think this is hypocritical then it must be. How to explain to you that...... ? Well.... Of course, people who do wrong in life, sooner or later will feel the wrath of those who were mistreated by them, or discriminated, or abused. It has nothing to do with gender. You can do whatever you want.... why should I follow your code of conduct? Why should anyone feel and think exactly as you do? It is okay if you don't believe in karma. Fine... and? How about you lecture this to Rose too? You seriously ask me why you shouldn't call someone old, fat and ugly after yourself complaining about how women have been treated here? You don't at all see the hypocrisy here and how it is hard to take you seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Len Cnut said: If the not nice thing is almost identical in the two instances that changes the complexion of this hypothesis somewhat. It would be difficult to feel bad for example if some black guy broke Axls teeth around the time One in a Million came out. Sure, but that's not what we talking about here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: Sure, but that's not what we talking about here. It sort of is, you're having a go at her for calling Axl fat and ugly, which is a justifiable consequence for having done the same to other people, in the same way getting smacked in the mouth is a justifiable consequence of written One in a Million. What goes around comes around, if I go around today acting the fuckin' hardman looking down on people for being weak and there comes a day in my life where life has weakened me and people are as unforgiving of me in their assessments as I had previously been to other people well thats what they call poetic justice, or karma, just desserts, take your pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, SoulMonster said: Call me old-fashioned, orr, I suppose, old....fat and ugly. Oh, did she accidentally strike a nerve? Good thing she didn't list ginger, too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, soon said: Oh, did she accidentally strike a nerve? Good thing she didn't list ginger, too Yeah, and if she had added sweaty too it would have been full bingo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: It sort of is, you're having a go at her for calling Axl fat and ugly, which is a justifiable consequence for having done the same to other people, in the same way getting smacked in the mouth is a justifiable consequence of written One in a Million. What goes around comes around, if I go around today acting the fuckin' hardman looking down on people for being weak and there comes a day in my life where life has weakened me and people are as unforgiving of me in their assessments as I had previously been to other people well thats what they call poetic justice, or karma, just desserts, take your pick. It sort of is not. Because when someone insults you then within reason it is acceptable to retort at the moment. I mean, that is understandable. It is more pushing it to say that if someone has at one time been a jerk to someone else then everyone else is eligible to insult that person infinitely, even if it is 20 years later or whatever. Because we are all assholes at times - I certainly am and I think you will agree that you can be, too, not that I have ever seen it but you keep saying you are a cunt so I guess I have to believe you - but that doesn't mean we should all go round and insult each other and say it is karma. But don't get me wrong, I don't mind people calling each other stuff. If people want to display weakness then let then. In this case it was the fact that it was immediately preceded by a post where she moaned over people here being jerks to her or other. I find that hilariously hypocritical. Edited March 25, 2019 by SoulMonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: It sort of is not. Because when someone insults you then within reason it is acceptable to retort at the moment. I mean, that is understandable. It is more pushing it to say that if someone has at one time been a jerk to someone else then everyone else is eligible to insult that person infinitely, even if it is 20 years later or whatever. Because we are all assholes at times - I certainly am and I think you will agree that you can be, too, not that I have ever seen it but you keep saying you are a cunt so I guess I have to believe you - but that doesn't mean we should all go round and insult each other and say it is karma. But don't get me wrong, I don't mind people calling each other stuff. If people want to display weakness then let then. In this case it was the fact that it was immediately preceded by a post where she moaned over people here being jerks to her or other. I find that hilariously hypocritical. So who gets to decide the statute of limitations on poetic justice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: You seriously ask me why you shouldn't call someone old, fat and ugly after yourself complaining about how women have been treated here? You don't at all see the hypocrisy here and how it is hard to take you seriously? I said that if you think it is hypocrite then IT MUST BE. What part am I not seeing? The problem with your reasoning is that you brought something from another thread, took it completely out of context, and now you're trying to "catch me in foul" by overlapping two different situations that do not suit each other. First of all, I did not complain about anything. I only responded to a guy who talked about how some comments here on the forum can make women uncomfortable. He mainly talked about objetifying women and I said that I've seen something else. Never did I say that something else was related to fat-shaming, ageism or calling women ugly. So when you bring up my funny comment from the "Unpopular opinions" thread, you're making no sense at all. You ask me if it's okay to call names to someone? I said ask to Axl (since you decided to bring him up), because he's the king of calling names to other people and I gave you examples of it. I said it is okay in the context of Karma, because I truly believe that in the case of Axl, everything he said about those people came back at him bitting his own ass. So, no, PERSONALLY, I don't give a fuck if saying that to Axl is wrong to you. Why not? Because he deserves it. Because he hurt people in the past with the things he said, so this is basically social justice. 2 hours ago, SoulMonster said: So if a female member here at some time in her life said something not nice to someone else, then according to you I would be entirely fine with calling her "fat, ugly, and old" in some form of third-party reprisal? First you should make sure that she's fat, old and ugly! Second, if she said to someone else "dude, you are moron", why would you call her "fat, old and ugly"? Third, if she's said those things to someone she deserves to be called the same, which would be like the smallest consequence of it all. Because, if like Rose, she's told some guy to get the fuck out of her sight because he's ugly/old/fat, then that's another story, another level of malice and discrimination. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, Len Cnut said: So who gets to decide the statute of limitations on poetic justice? Society develop social norms. You and me. Or preferably others ;). So when someone decided to moan about how women are being mistreated, then proceed by calling a guy "fat, ugly and old" and excuses that by the guy allegedly having done some shit before so it is karma, then you and I and others comment on that and voila! social norms are developed. 1 minute ago, killuridols said: I said that if you think it is hypocrite then IT MUST BE. What part am I not seeing? Oh, I though you were being ironic. I guess we agree then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: Society develop social norms. You and me. Or preferably others ;). So when someone decided to moan about how women are being mistreated, then proceed by calling a guy "fat, ugly and old" and excuses that by the guy allegedly having done some shit before so it is karma, then you and I and others comment on that and voila! social norms are developed. Its worth noting also that there's not exactly on instance of this in Axl, like when he had a pop at an ex mod around here at great length once. We are all responsible for the shit that comes out of our mouths and if you make a habit of doing that kind of thing then people tend to be less than forgiving. Anyway, I'm sure Axl gives less of a shit than we do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Isn't this the "No Holds Barred Thread"? If this is the thread where people post the non-PC stuff that it is in your mind, then why all of a sudden, the PC police shows up to defend Axl Rose? I mean............ isn't it fucken ridiculous? 9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: So when someone decided to moan about how women are being mistreated, then proceed by calling a guy "fat, ugly and old" and excuses that by the guy allegedly having done some shit before so it is karma, then you and I and others comment on that and voila! social norms are developed. I did not proceed to do that, because that happened in a DIFFERENT CONTEXT of a DIFFERENT THREAD, whats wrong with you? Also, the thread I'm talking about is for posting your UNPOPULAR OPINION, so how is it hypocritical when all of us are sort of making a confession and expressing that we are completely AWARE that our opinions are not popular, or politically correct, or that they may cause a negative effect on people?? Seriously, you've lost it at trying to defend your idol. Sorry, mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 A lot depends on the person. If someone has a record for being the wanker that makes them fair game. Rose has been thus since his heyday on account of his diva-isms, lateness, tantrums, lassy-bashing and yes ''One In A Million''. A more extreme example would be somebody utterly repellent like Gary Glitter; would anyone leap to Glitter's defence if somebody called him a ''fat old ugly fucker''? Nope, because he is fairgame due to his noncing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 54 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Its worth noting also that there's not exactly on instance of this in Axl, like when he had a pop at an ex mod around here at great length once. We are all responsible for the shit that comes out of our mouths and if you make a habit of doing that kind of thing then people tend to be less than forgiving. Anyway, I'm sure Axl gives less of a shit than we do. No one is arguing whether Axl has done bad things. It is more about whether that means everybody else is free to fat-shame him, call him ugly, and call him old, especially after complaining about others being assholes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, SoulMonster said: No one is arguing whether Axl has done bad things. It is more about whether that means everybody else is free to fat-shame him, call him ugly, and call him old, especially after complaining about others being assholes. Everyones free to say whatever they want last time I checked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 48 minutes ago, killuridols said: Isn't this the "No Holds Barred Thread"? If this is the thread where people post the non-PC stuff that it is in your mind, then why all of a sudden, the PC police shows up to defend Axl Rose? What? It wasn't in this thread you called him "fat, ugly and old" was it? That was in the news section. It was in this thread you complained about people being mean. And no, it isn't just "political correctness" to react to people fat-shaming and dissing people for how they look. Even when the victim is an asshole celebrity. I think that is just decency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Everyones free to say whatever they want last time I checked. Of course that isn't true But just as obvious, it is entirely legal to call someone fat, ugly and old. Sure. But we aren't talking about legal stuff now, are we, we are talking about social norms, right? We are talking about what we react to and we let pass. And when someone does fat-shame and diss people due to their looks, especially after moaning about how they have been treated themselves, then I am equally free to call that out as hypocritical and point out how it erodes their point and makes it hard to take them seriously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: What? It wasn't in this thread you called him "fat, ugly and old" was it? That was in the news section. It was in this thread you complained about people being mean. It was in the What's your unpopular GN'R opinion? thread that I listed my GN'R opinions I consider are unpopular among fans (<-- here people can read for themselves what was said and what not) Merely responding to the call of the thread I did not complain about anything in this thread. Never said anything about anyone being mean. I only added a comment in response to the post of some other person (<-- here people can read for themselves what was said and what not). 10 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: And no, it isn't just "political correctness" to react to people fat-shaming and dissing people for how they look. Even when the victim is an asshole celebrity. I think that is just decency. Why didn't you react at the thread where I posted the so-called offense then? Why didn't you report it? (if you consider it so bad) You know why? Because I was totally on topic in that thread and I am totally on topic in this thread and that bothers you. So now you have to mount this circus, crossing threads and topics, just to say something that you don't even believe yourself. Because you are defending Rose but you don't care about the girl he fat-shamed in the 80's. And you don't care about what I said here, about female members of the forum being drove away because of certain comments made by certain males. 100% Hypocrisy 22 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: especially after moaning about how they have been treated themselves, then I am equally free to call that out as hypocritical and point out how it erodes their point and makes it hard to take them seriously. I NEVER talked about myself when I responded to @OmarBradley. It looks like you're channeling some other stuff that it is not really present in this thread, arent you? Unfortunately, it is more than one female forum member who have gone through that and even if I was the one and only hypocrite in this whole forum (which is pretty LOL to say), how does that invalidate what I said? You know, that's like almost like saying that if a Prostitute claims she's been raped, it is hard to take her claim seriously because, you know, she's a hooker and she's somehow prone to be raped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, killuridols said: Why didn't you react at the thread where I posted the so-called offense then? Why didn't you report it? (if you consider it so bad) Because it was the blatant hypocrisy of complaining about others being mean followed by an unprovoked ageist, fat-shaming ad hominem attack on someone else, I found worth pointing out, but not to the point of wanting to derail a thread in the news section. In general I don't really mind people being abrasive and uncouth, not to the extent that I speak out (if people haven't learnt manners when they were young there isn't much I can do about it), but here I found the hypocrisy so amusing I chose to point it out. I guess I get triggered more by cognitive stuff than manners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 30 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: Because it was the blatant hypocrisy of complaining about others being mean followed by an unprovoked ageist, fat-shaming ad hominem attack on someone else, I found worth pointing out, but not to the point of wanting to derail a thread in the news section. Bollocks and you know it. What I said was not random. It was my response to the thread What's your unpopular GN'R opinion? Why are you trying to make it look like something different? 36 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: I guess I get triggered more by cognitive stuff than manners. There is no cognitive flaws in what I said. You know the context of both posts very well. They are two different threads. Two different topics. I do not disparage random bollocks just because. Many times I joke around with certain things and maybe at times, people do not fully understand me because I do have flaws in my English, but I'm pretty far from being the huge hypocrite you are trying to paint here. I find your obsession a bit overboard. Give it a rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, killuridols said: Bollocks and you know it. What I said was not random. It was my response to the thread What's your unpopular GN'R opinion? That's your excuse now? There was a thread about unpopular opinions on Guns N' Roses so you had no choice but to fat-shame and diss the looks and age of Axl Rose? It wasn't your fault, the thread was there? Your autonomous will and manners were stripped from you when you were presented with a discussion thread on an Internet forum? And again, it isn't that you dissed Axl that is the issue, it is the blatant hypocrisy and how it contrasted with your complaints about men saying mean things about women here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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