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Ace Nova Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) lol Edited August 11, 2020 by Ace Nova 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Gracii Guns Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 The porn industry is exploitative of all people, especially of women. Anyone who claims to value the unique gifts of every person, shouldn't watch porn. Sex work, including stripping, isn't female empowerment. Third wave feminism is excellent at identifying problems women face, then offers the most ridiculous solutions. Offering oneself as an object of lust is cheap power which doesn't last. It doesn't show the dignity nor intellect of women. Equality isn't going to be won by shaking ass. Empowered, privileged women don't do sex work. It may be a choice, but it's not a safe one. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Gracii Guns said: Empowered, privileged women don't do sex work. Some probably do. I believe everyone is allowed to do what they want. There are plenty of people in the porn industry who enjoy what they do and rather do this line of work than some 9 to 5 job. It wouldn't be my choice, but each to their own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Gracii Guns said: Third wave feminism is excellent at identifying problems women face, then offers the most ridiculous solutions. Offering oneself as an object of lust is cheap power which doesn't last. It doesn't show the dignity nor intellect of women. Im not sure if I follow, Gracii? What is the issue third wave feminism identified and suggested sex work as the remedy too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) young people are so damn lazy. they expect everything handed to them without effort. this is going on for some years now. As this segment of the population increases, you see parties that target these people. If you belong to this group, then right parties don't have much to offer to you, so you're going to look to the left. I say, the left has adapted themselves well, responding to the ridiculous aspirations of this generation. but this won't last. everything comes at a price. Who will pay to give these empty heads food? Also, the amount of prisons you need to build to house all these people, who eventually resort to crimes to steal from hard working people. the system will surely implode, at some point. like a star that has spend all it's fuel, and desperately wants to battle the forces of gravity, imploding to a black hole. Edited September 20, 2020 by action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gracii Guns Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 56 minutes ago, EvanG said: Some probably do. I believe everyone is allowed to do what they want. There are plenty of people in the porn industry who enjoy what they do and rather do this line of work than some 9 to 5 job. It wouldn't be my choice, but each to their own. People are allowed to do what they want, but there are better choices out there which women with supportive families and further education are able to make. I don't believe it for a second when any porn actress says she enjoys her job. There's some really nasty, degrading porn which they're expected to do. It's putting themselves at such high risk of so many health issues. The other jobs where there's a serious endangerment of one's health, look after you. Such as the army, the police. Even on buildng sites, they get safety gear to wear. But having a prolapse from frequent anal sex? Oh that's your choice, love. Also the issue of consent; I don't believe a woman can fully and wholeheartedly consent to sex if money is the reward for doing so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Gracii Guns said: The porn industry is exploitative of all people, especially of women. Anyone who claims to value the unique gifts of every person, shouldn't watch porn. Sex work, including stripping, isn't female empowerment. Third wave feminism is excellent at identifying problems women face, then offers the most ridiculous solutions. Offering oneself as an object of lust is cheap power which doesn't last. It doesn't show the dignity nor intellect of women. Equality isn't going to be won by shaking ass. Empowered, privileged women don't do sex work. It may be a choice, but it's not a safe one. isn't every job exploitative of people? a boss that bosses you around all day. you offer the product of your work to your boss, and he gives you a lousy pay in return, and the government takes a part of it too. putting people to work is fundamentally exploitative of people. wether you do it naked or not, isn't really the heart of the problem. being naked while working, is just another moral aspect, which may or may not be a problem to people. historically, it was the church who demonised all sorts of porn and sexual actions, but we must not forget that sexual intercourse is just a natural phenomenon, like eating and taking a dump. People, and the church first of all, have just attached moral dilemmas around it all. I think there is room to re-evaluate the morality of porn. it is only wrong if these women are being forced to do what they do. but if it isn't a problem to them, why should it be a problem to us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 1 minute ago, action said: isn't every job exploitative of people? a boss that bosses you around all day. you offer the product of your work to your boss, and he gives you a lousy pay in return, and the government takes a part of it too. putting people to work is fundamentally exploitative of people. wether you do it naked or not, isn't really the heart of the problem. being naked while working, is just another moral aspect, which may or may not be a problem to people. historically, it was the church who demonised all sorts of porn and sexual actions, but we must not forget that sexual intercourse is just a natural phenomenon, like eating and taking a dump. People, and the church first of all, have just attached moral dilemmas around it all. I think there is room to re-evaluate the morality of porn. it is only wrong if these women are being forced to do what they do. but if it isn't a problem to them, why should it be a problem to us? Theres a great documentary, produced by Rashida Jones, called Girls Wanted. Its no Netflix. It exposes some of the ways that teenaged girls and young women are manipulated into the industry. And how little control and autonomy they have once they enter the industry. Its very eye opening. You should check it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, soon said: Theres a great documentary, produced by Rashida Jones, called Girls Wanted. Its no Netflix. It exposes some of the ways that teenaged girls and young women are manipulated into the industry. And how little control and autonomy they have once they enter the industry. Its very eye opening. You should check it out. they should make a documentary about how companies exploit people in the private sector, how they fire you for stupid reasons and how people get home from work, all stressed out and having no energy to live anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gracii Guns Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 50 minutes ago, soon said: Im not sure if I follow, Gracii? What is the issue third wave feminism identified and suggested sex work as the remedy too? That's it, sex work isn't a remedy for any aspect of inequality. It's women who are getting their butts out for mens' pleasure. I find the idea that this is now a legitimate "feminist choice" cringe-inducing. A couple of years ago in Sheffield, there were two groups of feminists, each protesting a different side of whether a Spearmint Rhino should open. The group wanting it closed were all retirement age (second wavers) , while the group wanting it open were young (post third wavers, really). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gracii Guns Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 17 minutes ago, action said: isn't every job exploitative of people? a boss that bosses you around all day. you offer the product of your work to your boss, and he gives you a lousy pay in return, and the government takes a part of it too. putting people to work is fundamentally exploitative of people. wether you do it naked or not, isn't really the heart of the problem. being naked while working, is just another moral aspect, which may or may not be a problem to people. historically, it was the church who demonised all sorts of porn and sexual actions, but we must not forget that sexual intercourse is just a natural phenomenon, like eating and taking a dump. People, and the church first of all, have just attached moral dilemmas around it all. I think there is room to re-evaluate the morality of porn. it is only wrong if these women are being forced to do what they do. but if it isn't a problem to them, why should it be a problem to us? There's a dignity in work. It's human nature to need a purpose and to solve problems. Capitalism is exploitative, but no, most work isn't exploitation. Yes, intercourse is natural. But porn isn't the same as normal sex is it? Rape isn't sex. Both are about power and are pale imitations of sex. And when someone isn't granted equal dignity, that's when it becomes a moral dilemma. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Gracii Guns said: The porn industry is exploitative of all people, especially of women. Anyone who claims to value the unique gifts of every person, shouldn't watch porn. Sex work, including stripping, isn't female empowerment. Third wave feminism is excellent at identifying problems women face, then offers the most ridiculous solutions. Offering oneself as an object of lust is cheap power which doesn't last. It doesn't show the dignity nor intellect of women. Equality isn't going to be won by shaking ass. Empowered, privileged women don't do sex work. It may be a choice, but it's not a safe one. I agree. which is why I only watch tranny porn these days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 21 minutes ago, Gracii Guns said: There's a dignity in work. It's human nature to need a purpose and to solve problems. Capitalism is exploitative, but no, most work isn't exploitation. Yes, intercourse is natural. But porn isn't the same as normal sex is it? Rape isn't sex. Both are about power and are pale imitations of sex. And when someone isn't granted equal dignity, that's when it becomes a moral dilemma. yes, but for argument's sake, there are many different kinds of porn. such as where women are dominant and where the man is humiliated and such. But yes, I think we could agree on which kinds are humilating to women, and which not. we can all agree that rape is bad, but I don't think rape would be allowed on most porn sites. they'd have the FBI on their doorstep in no time. but if your definition of rape also involves sex with two consenting people, then we just have to agree to disagree. personally I don't really like porn where people have sex. it doesn't excite me more than a strip show. I much prefer the latter, if I need to chose. As with everything in life, there is good stuff and bad stuff. there are even accepted "drugs", like alcohol. everything is relative. 14 minutes ago, Dazey said: I agree. which is why I only watch tranny porn these days. they showed me a clip where a woman kicked a man in the balls the other day. genuinly made me feel stressed out. I didn't watch porn for, at least, two days after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 48 minutes ago, Gracii Guns said: People are allowed to do what they want, but there are better choices out there which women with supportive families and further education are able to make. I don't believe it for a second when any porn actress says she enjoys her job. There's some really nasty, degrading porn which they're expected to do. It's putting themselves at such high risk of so many health issues. The other jobs where there's a serious endangerment of one's health, look after you. Such as the army, the police. Even on buildng sites, they get safety gear to wear. But having a prolapse from frequent anal sex? Oh that's your choice, love. Also the issue of consent; I don't believe a woman can fully and wholeheartedly consent to sex if money is the reward for doing so. I think you're right about some of it and of course there are women who do this because they have no other choice or are pressured into it or whatever the reason may be, but I truly believe that there are also women who do this out of free will and because they want to and maybe even enjoy it. Or enjoy this more than working some crappy job 50 hours a week and not getting paid nearly as much as working in the sex industry. It's hard to imagine if you're not like that yourself, but everyone is different. I wouldn't be comfortable or enjoy it either, but that doesn't mean someone else couldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gracii Guns said: That's it, sex work isn't a remedy for any aspect of inequality. It's women who are getting their butts out for mens' pleasure. I find the idea that this is now a legitimate "feminist choice" cringe-inducing. A couple of years ago in Sheffield, there were two groups of feminists, each protesting a different side of whether a Spearmint Rhino should open. The group wanting it closed were all retirement age (second wavers) , while the group wanting it open were young (post third wavers, really). Had to google "Spearmint Rhino" what a bizarre name. Anyways, I think I should mention that Ive crossed paths with some gals who once firebombed a place that made and distributed porn that depicted assaults. They are some cool ladies! And also, a really good friend of mine is a sex worker. Shes poor. She 'couldnt' hold down a 9-5 and works, alone, from anywhere her phone works. Shes happy. Its putting her through school... and she even works from the classroom. It a good gig. If Im understanding correctly, the post-third wavers you are speaking about are people with economic advantages and other opportunities. And if so, Id agree that ideology has gotten away from them. I think that sometimes they try to project their text books onto poor women, from the safety of the classroom. I think that their ideology started out as things I can get behind, but then it got away from them. I support things like respecting sex work the way we respect other work. I support better on the job protections, health and safety, etc. If more of it were legal it could be better regulated on the vulnerable peoples behalf. Like, if sex work is happening anyways, I mean. I would say that supporting other women who operate within constrained choices is definitely a feminist option. Feminist necessity really. But, and this is a big but.... Cardi B sized.... but normalizing exploitation while fetishizing poor womens poverty is obviously not the way to offer any sort of solidarity. As far as women of means choosing to sell sex, Id be tempted to say that it never lasts long. Then again, Im aware of a woman whose been selling ass on FB since the platform launched. Shes a real misandrist and is partnered with a nonbinary person. I cant make heads nor tails of any of her deal tbh, lol But anyways, yeah, post third wave, in its white and/or privileged variant, is marked by neoliberalism and in that way pretty much removes itself from any sensible conversations about class and exploitation. EDIT: I mean, there are many feminisms represented under the banner of waves. Radical and anticapitalist feminists might have analysis' that are more similar to your own. But I know the milleu you are talking about. Edited September 20, 2020 by soon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Speaking of porn, Haha 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 15 hours ago, DieselDaisy said: Speaking of porn, Haha In short, the way we stand for black rights by posting videos of some black bird we bunged 50 quid and a the price of a McDonalds meal to get spit-roasted and spunked on by 5 geezers, how empowering 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gracii Guns Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 On 8/6/2020 at 1:15 PM, Len Cnut said: My cousin was a cop for a while, I ripped the fuckin' shit out of her about it She's fuckin' tiny too, I was like how the fuck are you gonna stop anyone committing a crime, I would brush you off like dried up dogshit. Tried to get her to show me those neck nerve points they show em but no joy. My baby sister has just joined the police. 90% of her job is stopping arguments. She did show me the nerve points thing. Can't say that I'd feel confident using them when facing up to a 6'12" chap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 16 minutes ago, Gracii Guns said: 6'12" chap. Is that how they say 7' in Yorkshire? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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