Axl on Cobain's Death

[Eu4ic]

Kurt, as brilliant as he was, was incredibly narrow-minded. I consider him a dogmatic conservative in how blindly and rigidly he adhered to the pseudo-laws of liberalism (See the insert of Incesticide: (paraphrasing) "If you are in any way against homosexuality, dont buy our records, dont come to our shows."). MTV began pushing this ideology in the early 90s for social, business, and political reasons which Kurt Cobain himself bought into. It was as if Kurt Cobain himself grew up on MTV and bought into their lies of "we are just about music and the youth and we are not a corporation caring only about your dollar." Sadly, you can draw a straight line from Nirvana to..Lady Gaga and Lil Wayne, Jersey Shore and Teen Mom; from wimpy outcasts with no muscles, to big popular jocks wearing Buddy Holly glasses, to computer nerds at the gym on steroids. It's comical, really. It's coming full circle, and that bubble it has created is about to burst imo.

I dont think Axl was jealous either. People say Axl hogs the spotlight but I've never seen someone who simply loves music more indiscriminately, someone who is more deferential in giving the spotlight and praise to others, even others like Kurt who blindly judged him. He found a kindred spirit in Kurt and was rebuffed - and this hurt his feelings understandably.

[Eu4ic]

I like a lot of their music but really dislike his attitude about the whole thing. It's not just his either, Dave Grohl is the same way. They do "Headbangers Ball" and they show up disinterested and giving one word answers , just being pricks in general. Because they were punk rockers and resented being on a metal show. Well it's not punk rock to take the free press and act like assholes, it would of been punk rock to just not of done the show. The whole being a rock star while saying "I don't wanna be a rock star" is the thing that makes it hard for me to connect deeper with their music. As for Grohl, he's quick to say all the time about how Guns became bloated and a joke during the UYI tours with the back up singers and orchestra. Then I watch this documentary on the Foo Fighters last year, and at the end of it it's got Dave and the boys playing with both back up singers along with a bunch of other extra instrumentation. Playing stadiums and releasing hard rock songs with pop sensibilities. Maybe he's realized as an artist you grow to want more from your craft and you evolve to something more then you were before. But don't trash someone for coming to that realization before you did. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a rock star, it's just so lame when you act like someone is forcing you to play a certain type of music or play a certain type of venue.

Not to mention that Grohl looks like James Hetfield, everything from the facial hair, the pose, the guitar, the necklace, the wrist bands! Geez! Flea also has come out of his 'alternative' shell and is up Metallica's ass all the time. Funny none of those guys would be caught dead with GNR or Metallica then

[Cosmo]

Kurt Cobain started the hipster trend.

+1. I hate how Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden and other grunge bands acted. It was like they had a mask on the whole time. They were normal people, for Christ's sake. Act like one. They just tried too hard to be 'different', 'cult', etc... Just like hipsters today.

[GnR Chris]

Whether or not Cobain got to know Axl on a personal level, Axl's primadonna antics were/are indisputable. That's not rock and roll. It's bullshit.

[WhazUp]

Kurt Cobain started the hipster trend.

+1. I hate how Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden and other grunge bands acted. It was like they had a mask on the whole time. They were normal people, for Christ's sake. Act like one. They just tried too hard to be 'different', 'cult', etc... Just like hipsters today.

I can see Cobain being like that definately. But as an avid Pearl Jam fan (and I admit I am probably a bit biased because of that lol) I don't see what they were doing as trying too hard to be cool or even somthing that they weren't. In fact whenever I think of Pearl Jam I think of a genuine group of guys who made honest music and acted in a way that really empowered their fans to connect with them

[mr. address]

Kurt Cobain started the hipster trend.

+1. I hate how Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden and other grunge bands acted. It was like they had a mask on the whole time. They were normal people, for Christ's sake. Act like one. They just tried too hard to be 'different', 'cult', etc... Just like hipsters today.

I can see Cobain being like that definately. But as an avid Pearl Jam fan (and I admit I am probably a bit biased because of that lol) I don't see what they were doing as trying too hard to be cool or even somthing that they weren't. In fact whenever I think of Pearl Jam I think of a genuine group of guys who made honest music and acted in a way that really empowered their fans to connect with them

he didn't start the hipster trend, but he mainstreamed it.

kurt made the comment about how there has "always been an axl rose." well, there had always been a kurt cobain! it's just that axl's archetype had been played out in the mainstream since mick jagger, and kurt was first of his kind to hit it really big. you can trace kurt's role back through jeffrey lee pierce, greg sage, alex chilton, lou reed, roky erickson, dylan, etc etc etc etc. there's always been an outsider...kurt was the first one to go platinum (save for dylan.)

people talk about how axl n kurt had a lot in common, but perhaps only the things that each hated most about themselves. when you compare their upbringings, kurt seems like the lucky one IMO. axl didn't have the luxury of a thriving music scene in his own backyard. he didn't have the luxury of exploring his feelings about women, homosexuality, racism et cetera in the comfort of a small, liberal college town like olympia. axl had to cross the country to escape to LA, to live n die by his own wits. kurt just moved a few towns over.

[ChineseDemocracy2004]

http://www.avclub.com/articles/part-2-1991-whats-so-civil-about-war-anyway,46507/

amazing article on the two of them

I enjoyed reading that.

[wkuk04]

You can't say Cobain had a harder upbringing than Axl. I believe Axl treated himself when he got money because of the hardship he went through when he left indiana and the circumstances around it. I always thought kurt was riding gnr and trying to climb onto them to leapfrog the band to become number 1 in the u.s but at the time gnr was worldwide famous act.

[Locke]

Kurt Cobain struck me as a self-important, yet somehow self-loathing pussy who couldn't handle fame, let alone his moronic whore of a wife. And that's coming from someone who enjoyed his music and consider myself lucky enough to have been front row for a Nirvana show. I understand fame can be a difficult thing to grasp, but the man took his life and left a young daughter behind. Man up, bitch. If there was a mental health issue at play then I take it all back and apologize, but I can only have so much sympathy for a junky millionaire who took the easy way out of a charmed life and left his daughter behind.

Meanwhile, I agree with the person who mentioned Soundgarden as a metal band that posed as grunge once grunge took over. It's possible they were alternative guys who posed as metal guys before grunge hit, but that doesn't make it any better. I'll never forget how much I enjoyed Soundgarden when they opened for GNR. Then I saw them headlining a few years later and the live presentation was completely different. Cornell had his mic changed after most songs and did the whole "too good to look at the fans or act like I'm enjoying myself" routine. I was turned off completely and lost a lot of respect for the band that night. It's probably my least favorite concert experience.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Locke

[Black Horse]

From what I remember from back in the day, Axl liked Kurt/Nirvana and it was said that he was very much into all the grunge stuff. He could even be seen wearing a Nirvana cap in one of "The makin´ off" videos. On the other side, it was said that Kurt didn´t like Axl because he represented what he despised ( Axl was a big rock star, with all the big lifestyle, the big corporate contracts...etc) which is, imo, pretty ironic since Nirvana made it big and became the head of the grunge movement and they also ended up living the rock star lifestyle, they were played on MTV all the time...etc.

I grew up listening to GNR and Nirvana, I loved Nirvana but I think that band was over rated, today, I don´t consider their songs to be as good as I used to. Actually, I don´t listen to them anymore. And, if we talk of lyrics and all, to me Axl is way better and more talented than Kurt was. And, I definitely admire Axl over Kurt because even though he lived in hell, he had the balls to stay and live.

[sailaway]

Whether or not Cobain got to know Axl on a personal level, Axl's primadonna antics were/are indisputable. That's not rock and roll. It's bullshit.

Yeah,shooting yourself in the head leaving behind a child that you were instrumental in bringing into this world is the epitome of "cool". So is doing heroin and enabling the mother of said child to use heroin while child was in utero.

Also,I seem to remember a bit of a backhanded bitchslap uttered by Tommy "the nightmare",Disc Jockey for KDST and former member of "Crystal Ship" went something like "Take off that Flannel,we are Rockers here,not Lumberjacks".

More subtle than the Molotov Cocktail treatment of the Nurr-vaah-nah hat onstage.

I never got the fascination or the following for the Foo Fighters,from what I've heard it sounds like they listen to what is popular,or take a classic riff and transpose to compose their music.Imo,what Grohl did best was providing Nirvana with some memorable percussion formulas.

Also in regards to Nirvana's over the top "we are so liberal and anti corporation that we remind everyone of it all the time" makes for a nice facade.

[Val22]

I don’t think Kurt gave Axl a chance on a personal level. He saw the sell-out, pretentious, self-absorbed, ruthless caricature and drew his own assumptions.

I think Axl and Kurt would have hit it off. & a collaboration between the 2 would perhaps have been the greatest happening for music.

I think Kurt's crazy wife had alot to do with Axl and Kurt not liking each other. It was because of her that Axl had that verbal fight with Kurt. She's nothing but a drug addict and has no talent whatsoever. Kurt should have shot her first and then he might have decided not to shoot himself. It's funny how her singing and acting career took off after his death. She had to have known how much pain he was in and suicidal, but since she was a drugged up bitch, she probably didn't care.

I hope her daughter stays far away from her, then she might have a chance at a better life.

In the end, Axl is still here, Kurt is gone and hopefully Courtney's 15 minutes of fame is up.

[Cosmo]

Kurt Cobain started the hipster trend.

+1. I hate how Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden and other grunge bands acted. It was like they had a mask on the whole time. They were normal people, for Christ's sake. Act like one. They just tried too hard to be 'different', 'cult', etc... Just like hipsters today.

I can see Cobain being like that definately. But as an avid Pearl Jam fan (and I admit I am probably a bit biased because of that lol) I don't see what they were doing as trying too hard to be cool or even somthing that they weren't. In fact whenever I think of Pearl Jam I think of a genuine group of guys who made honest music and acted in a way that really empowered their fans to connect with them

You're right. Pearl Jam not so much. Kurt was a real hipster tho.

[sailaway]

The only way I see Courtney Love as being remotely relevant is if they named a STD after her,or if she made the news by pulling a Lorena Bobbit on Lady Gaga's alledged appendage

I do think Kurt's premature demise jettisoned Nirvana's status.Granted the music was innovative,and lyrically brilliant in places I think the zenith had been reached,I can't really envision them reinventing themselves or evolving into anything that would have taken the music world by storm as they admittedly did with "Nevermind".

[Chewbacca]

The hipster trend is way older than Kurt and Nevermind. I think that he did help to give the hipster trend a boom. As for PJ, Sg and AiC: I don't think so, they weren't trying to look diferent or something. In fact, PJ was even criticized by Kurt, who judged them "too mainstream" to be part of the alternative scene.

[Verruckt]

Why all the hate for Courtney Love? Hole is/was a pretty good band. All the anti-drug posturing seems out of place on a GNR forum. And Frances Bean seems to have grown up to be a relatively well-adjusted young woman, and oh did I mention she is smokin' hot? Not that it's relevant, but still...

True the "intervention" she pulled on Kurt Cobain was hypocritical bullshit and may have contributed to his death, but she saw the error of it later and apologized. I dunno, I never got why people hate her so much. This is not directed at anyone in particular, just a general observation. Flame away.

[Chewbacca]

Why all the hate for Courtney Love? Hole is/was a pretty good band. All the anti-drug posturing seems out of place on a GNR forum. And Frances Bean seems to have grown up to be a relatively well-adjusted young woman, and oh did I mention she is smokin' hot? Not that it's relevant, but still...

True the "intervention" she pulled on Kurt Cobain was hypocritical bullshit and may have contributed to his death, but she saw the error of it later and apologized. I dunno, I never got why people hate her so much. This is not directed at anyone in particular, just a general observation. Flame away.

That doesn't look like an well adjusted person and it sure doesn't look good or "hot". Ugly just like her mom.

[Verruckt]

That doesn't look like an well adjusted person and it sure doesn't look good or "hot". Ugly just like her mom.

Hmm, I thought I was in the GNR forum, but I seem to have taken a wrong turn and stumbled into the Our Lady of Eternal Chastity and Sobriety forum.

Sorry but goth chicks are hot.

[ITW 2012]

It's fun to talk about the mythology, but what's most important was how good all of the music was. I love GNR, and I love the grunge bands. The 90's ruled while the 2000's have sucked ass.

[Chewbacca]

That doesn't look like an well adjusted person and it sure doesn't look good or "hot". Ugly just like her mom.

Hmm, I thought I was in the GNR forum, but I seem to have taken a wrong turn and stumbled into the Our Lady of Eternal Chastity and Sobriety forum.

Sorry but goth chicks are hot.

Facepalm on your post, dude. I'm not sayin she's ugly cuz she's a goth (she doesn't look like one, BTW) and I'm not sayin that she's not an adjusted person because she looks like a junkie. It has more to do with the fact that she looks like Amy Winehouse: that sick, way too skinny bitch who is going to die really soon appearance, which is not really attractive at all, no mater how drunk you are.

[Verruckt]

It's fun to talk about the mythology, but what's most important was how good all of the music was. I love GNR, and I love the grunge bands. The 90's ruled while the 2000's have sucked ass.

Word. The White Stripes were awesome though.

Facepalm on your post, dude. I'm not sayin she's ugly cuz she's a goth (she doesn't look like one, BTW) and I'm not sayin that she's not an adjusted person because she looks like a junkie. It has more to do with the fact that she looks like Amy Winehouse: that sick, way too skinny bitch who is going to die really soon appearance, which is not really attractive at all, no mater how drunk you are.

Amy Winehouse was hot too when she was younger. True she looked like hell towards the end, but Frances Bean looks nothing like that. Matter of opinion I guess. Princess Leia is probably more your type.

[ITW 2012]

It's fun to talk about the mythology, but what's most important was how good all of the music was. I love GNR, and I love the grunge bands. The 90's ruled while the 2000's have sucked ass.

Word. The White Stripes were awesome though.

I hate Jack White. That retro shit has been the death of new music.

[Verruckt]

I hate Jack White. That retro shit has been the death of new music.

I don't even know how to respond to that.

[axlsalinger]

The White Stripes are also my favourite band of the last 10 years, along with everything Butch Walker has been doing.

[drtydane]

The hipster trend is way older than Kurt and Nevermind. I think that he did help to give the hipster trend a boom. As for PJ, Sg and AiC: I don't think so, they weren't trying to look diferent or something. In fact, PJ was even criticized by Kurt, who judged them "too mainstream" to be part of the alternative scene.

Nobody ever mentioned the alice. I think they were the realest band of the genre. Regular guys who only wrote about things they dealt with. Alot of nice lyrics, although often simple. But it was all delivery. Cantrells riffs, along with the harmony of his and laynes voices has yet to be reproduced since. Nirvana we're big because of image mostly. I don't think their music sticks in mind as much as alice in chains, and its a shame nirvana is considered the big band of grunge music. Every ten year old in america will claim to love nirvana but probably never even heard of aic.

Edited January 2, 2012 by drtydane