Can the hardcore fan ever be pleased?

[Demon Wolf]

I haven't posted in a while, but I have been thinking of this question. Now, we are all very passionate about Guns N' Roses, no one can deny this. But I have realised there is just something about being a hardcore fan that always leaves you expecting more from your favourite artist.

Reason I am bringing this up is because I saw two Bruce Springsteen shows the other week. Best gigs I have ever seen, and he played 52 different songs on those two nights. Personally couldn't have asked for more, they were out of this world. Yet, in my first foray into the hardcore Boss communities, I find many of the very same complaints that are aired here.

If we stick to Springsteen, he has played over 130 (!!!!) different songs this tour, but there is still bitching about the setlists. Dancing In The Dark is played too much, the rarities aren't rare enough or too rare, the lesser played songs are too few in between or too many, too many covers, no Clarence... And it made me realize it is a battle no artist can ever win.

I think it is just in the very nature of a hardcore fan to always want more as a reward for their obsession. And the criticism is always the harshest from the keyboard warriors who aren't even attending the shows. I am not saying we shouldn't voice our dissatisfaction, sometimes it is perfectly valid, but often things are taken out of context.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Tyler Drama]

I was pleased when Chinese Democracy was released. All they have to do is release new music, tour for that music, take a break (no more than 2 years), release new music, tour for that music, etc.

[Apollo]

As a fan of Axl Rose, I would be more than happy if he chose to release music more than once every 15 years.

Axl releasing music every 3-4 years would shut up a huge portion of the negative group.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

sure, some people will always bitch. but by 2012, axl's managed to set the bar pretty low for himself.

[Demon Wolf]

I was pleased when Chinese Democracy was released. All they have to do is release new music, tour for that music, take a break (no more than 2 years), release new music, tour for that music, etc.

In essence, I agree completely... But we'd find other things to complain about! It is in the very nature of being a hardcore fan.

[SoulMonster]

As a fan of Axl Rose, I would be more than happy if he chose to release music more than once every 15 years.

Axl releasing music every 3-4 years would shut up a huge portion of the negative group.

Actually, his average release rate is more like a record every 4-5 years. And if we exclude the years when the band was practically dead, which you insist on counting, then it drops further. We shouldn't expect a new album every 5th year, though, because older bands tend to release less frequently. So lets say every 6-8 years. That would be 2014-2016 for the next one.

[WhazUp]

I was pleased when Chinese Democracy was released. All they have to do is release new music, tour for that music, take a break (no more than 2 years), release new music, tour for that music, etc.

In essence, I agree completely... But we'd find other things to complain about! It is in the very nature of being a hardcore fan.

I agree, no matter what there will be things we (GNR fans) think could be better. But that is just the nature of being invested in a band, to me the issue comes when a band is lacking in so many of those things that fans are becoming very frustrated - such as the case with things here

[Tyler Drama]

As a fan of Axl Rose, I would be more than happy if he chose to release music more than once every 15 years.

Axl releasing music every 3-4 years would shut up a huge portion of the negative group.

Actually, his average release rate is more like a record every 4-5 years.

But at least he would play new songs and talk about how they're recording a new album. And I don't really believe 4-5 years anyway.

1986 - Live Like A Suicide

1987 - Appetite for Destruction

1988 - GNR Lies

1991 - Use Your Illusion I and II

1993 - The Spaghetti Incident? (if this counts)

The longest was three years between Lies and the Illusions, and Civil War was played by 1990.

[Gagarin]

...no, if hardcore fan is a fan who frequents forums and has followed GNR since 1996, then no-

Because GNR has been a blankslate for people to write their hopes and dreams on, something they could write a big wish-list on, something they could pin all their hopes and dreams for finding fulfillment, satisfaction, and belonging as far as music and entertainment is concerned.

With customized expectations like that, no one can be satisfied. Chinese Democracy couldn't be satisfying for the same reasons.

GNR could be anything you imagined, as long as they weren't doing anything.

Chinese could be anything you imagined, as long as you never heard it (or could suspend disbelief if you didn't like the leaks).

People do this with politicians, too.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Gagarin

[IndiannaRose]

No.

I have been a member of numerous bands' fan boards and there is usually one common thread running between most of them:

People love to complain and are usually unhappy with said band.

Unfortunately, this is the reality of the situation. Also, given the fucked up predicament that GN'R has been in for years, this type of behavior is even more heavily emphasized within these particular boards.

Edited August 16, 2012 by IndiannaRose

[classicrawker]

Hardcore fans will always complain as they want obscure songs played and would be happy with shows where none of the hits are played..but the majority of the fans who attend concerts IMHO are casual fans who want to hear the hits..............It will never change as it is the nature of the beast

[Ali]

No.

I have been a member of numerous bands' fan boards and there is usually one common thread running between most of them:

People love to complain and are usually unhappy with said band.

Unfortunately, this is the reality of the situation. Also, given the fucked up predicament that GN'R has been in for years, this type of behavior is even more heavily emphasized within these particular boards.

This about sums it up.

I used to think that if GN'R released music more frequently,there would be less complaining. I'm not so sure that would change the amount of complaining so much as the nature of the complaints. Instead of complaints about releasing more music, period, there would be complaints that there aren't enough rockers on the album, or that the rockers aren't bluesy enough, or inevitably that song X would sound better if Slash played on it. The list could go on and on.

This actually makes me wonder something else, and not to derail the thread, but if the answer is "no", then what incentive is there or should there be to even to try to please the hardcore fanbase if it's impossible to do so, at least universally? In other words, if it is impossible to please the hardcore fanbase, if it's a losing proposition from the get-go, why even try?

Ali

[Apollo]

No.

I have been a member of numerous bands' fan boards and there is usually one common thread running between most of them:

People love to complain and are usually unhappy with said band.

Unfortunately, this is the reality of the situation. Also, given the fucked up predicament that GN'R has been in for years, this type of behavior is even more heavily emphasized within these particular boards.

This about sums it up.

I used to think that if GN'R released music more frequently,there would be less complaining. I'm not so sure that would change the amount of complaining so much as the nature of the complaints. Instead of complaints about releasing more music, period, there would be complaints that there aren't enough rockers on the album, or that the rockers aren't bluesy enough, or inevitably that song X would sound better if Slash played on it. The list could go on and on.

This actually makes me wonder something else, and not to derail the thread, but if the answer is "no", then what incentive is there or should there be to even to try to please the hardcore fanbase if it's impossible to do so, at least universally? In other words, if it is impossible to please the hardcore fanbase, if it's a losing proposition from the get-go, why even try?

Ali

But that us how everything works.

If you have three millions fans it is impossible to please three million people. So the overall question is silly.

The real question is why do fans care what other fans think?

[TeeJay410]

All things considered, "Axl plays too many different and varied songs" would seem like a refreshing problem.

[Tyler Drama]

All things considered, "Axl plays too many different and varied songs" would seem like a refreshing problem.

Post of the day.

[maynard]

the problem is that gnr does everything wrong, everything. from touring the same setlist to not releasing new music and not promoting it. springsteen fans are spoiled, gnr fans are frustrated, it's different.

[classicrawker]

the problem is that gnr does everything wrong, everything. from touring the same setlist to not releasing new music and not promoting it. springsteen fans are spoiled, gnr fans are frustrated, it's different.

Nah I have heard the same complaints from hardcore Stones and AC/DC fans about setlists wanting more music etc.....nature of the beast IMHO

No.

I have been a member of numerous bands' fan boards and there is usually one common thread running between most of them:

People love to complain and are usually unhappy with said band.

Unfortunately, this is the reality of the situation. Also, given the fucked up predicament that GN'R has been in for years, this type of behavior is even more heavily emphasized within these particular boards.

This about sums it up.

I used to think that if GN'R released music more frequently,there would be less complaining. I'm not so sure that would change the amount of complaining so much as the nature of the complaints. Instead of complaints about releasing more music, period, there would be complaints that there aren't enough rockers on the album, or that the rockers aren't bluesy enough, or inevitably that song X would sound better if Slash played on it. The list could go on and on.

This actually makes me wonder something else, and not to derail the thread, but if the answer is "no", then what incentive is there or should there be to even to try to please the hardcore fanbase if it's impossible to do so, at least universally? In other words, if it is impossible to please the hardcore fanbase, if it's a losing proposition from the get-go, why even try?

Ali

Because they help pay the bills and help promote the band............

[maynard]

well, it's the internet age, there's not turning back...

you can either tell your fans to fuck off or learn how to deal with it.

Edited August 17, 2012 by maynard

[downzy]

Yeah, I think it's a matter of picking your poison. I would imagine that many Springsteen fans might take issue with what songs are played, who's playing them and so on, but not to the extent that they're ready give up on the band. I'm not sure that's the same with GNR. There were a ton of people who use to follow this band religiously but have pretty much written the band off due to the lack of production and stale setlists.

You're always going to have someone complaining. The real issue concerns the energy of the fanbase. If Axl started releasing more music, varying up the setlists different tours, bridged the gap between him and former bandmates (to the point where even Slash joined GNR on stage from time to time) - basically, did everything we wanted him to - there would still be someone complaining. But the enthusiasm and general attitude towards the band would be completely different. Look how excited everyone got around here when they played Estranged last year. Fuck, they include one song and this place went ballistic. It's too bad Axl had such vocal problems that somewhat overshadowed the inclusion of a highly coveted song, but it didn't take much for hardcore fans to get excited about the band again. Like someone earlier in this thread mentioned, it's not exactly like the band has set a high bar for support.

Speaking from my own experience, I use to get extremely excited whenever GNR went on tour. I would try to visit as many shows as possible (6 in 2002, 5 in 2006, 3 in 2010, 1 in 2011 - notice a trend?) There's less of a reason for me to go anymore considering the basic structure of the show has been the same for 10 years. In fact, the only reason I went in 2011 was to hear Estranged, my favourite GNR song, to be played live. Had it been the same setlist we saw in 2010 I would have stayed home. My enthusiasm isn't what it once was because Axl hasn't done much to re-energize it.

To use the analogy of a sports team, people are always going to bitch, even when a team is on its way to winning a championship. But the fan base is still excited about the team and about being a fan, criticisms notwithstanding.

It just feels as though being a fan of GNR is akin to being a Cubs fan these past ten years instead. I'm sure Yankees fans complain constantly, but at least they're cheering for a winner.

Edited August 17, 2012 by downzy

[Apollo]

As a fan of Axl Rose, I would be more than happy if he chose to release music more than once every 15 years.

Axl releasing music every 3-4 years would shut up a huge portion of the negative group.

Actually, his average release rate is more like a record every 4-5 years. And if we exclude the years when the band was practically dead, which you insist on counting, then it drops further. We shouldn't expect a new album every 5th year, though, because older bands tend to release less frequently. So lets say every 6-8 years. That would be 2014-2016 for the next one.

How do you figure every 4-5 years?

He started the ball rolling in 1999 or 2000. There was public talk of an album in 2001.....all the way through 2006......before finally in 2008. It is now 2012 with no news of an album in the future. That is 12-13 years that Axl has been touring (not every year, obviously) and he has released one album. I'm not being sarcastic or trying to fight here, but how in the world do you whittle that down to an album ever 4-5 years?

I respectfully dissagree with your main point as well.

I did a little research, took about 5 minutes. Just thought of a few bands that were popular in the 80s that are still putting out music today, and that are in the same success ball field as GnR.

Four came to mind. Here is what I discovered just by checking their wiki page. Since 2000. When I say “DVD” that encompasses live albums, documentaries or music video collections. I could be an album or dvd off as I wasn't preparing evidence for a trial. I just jotted some notes down on paper. Again - this is just since 2000.

Metallica

3 albums

1 live album

5 EPS

2 box sets

3 DVDs

13 singles

6 music videos

Bon Jovi

5 albums

1 live album

1 acoustic album

1 greatest hits

1 box set

4 EPs

4 DVDs

21 music videos

25 singles

Def Leppard

3 albums (one in 1999)

2 greatest hits albums

1 live album

1 cover album

4 DVDs

10 singles

5 music videos

AC/DC

2 albums

1 box set

5 DVDs

8 singles

6 music videos

The lowest one is AC/DC and they still overwhelm GnR's output.

1 album

1 greatest hits album

0 dvd

0 box set

3 singles

0 music videos

I will admit that I probably like Axl's music a little too much. I guess you could even say that I like him more than you do, or the normal Nutters do.

He has been my favorite singer since 1988 and I still listen to GnR at least every other day now.

You've said numerous times on here that you would love new music, but you don't dwell on the fact that Axl rarely releases music anymore. Live your life, check out new bands, and all that. I do! But no other band has touched me the way GnR has.

I get your point. I've got a wife, kids, lots of hobbies. Heck, probably will take the boat to the cabin this weekend and hopefully catch a bunch of halibut and shrimp. BUT in terms of my musical entertainment- Axl occupies the top 10 spots, then other bands come to play.

It makes me sad as a fan that Axl has released 15 songs in the past 15 years, while I see other well known bands releasing 100-125 songs in that same time period. Imagining having an extra 100 GnR songs on my IPOD is like imagining winning a hundred grand in the lotto.

So call me a Nutter or a bitter ex-fan or whatever you want.

Axl is my favorite singer, I love GnR music more than any other band's music, and I wish that he had put out more music over the last 15 years. If that makes me a bad fan in your boook, then so be it.

[Gagarin]

^nice post. kind of a valentine, ya know?

[Ali]

the problem is that gnr does everything wrong, everything. from touring the same setlist to not releasing new music and not promoting it. springsteen fans are spoiled, gnr fans are frustrated, it's different.

Nah I have heard the same complaints from hardcore Stones and AC/DC fans about setlists wanting more music etc.....nature of the beast IMHO

No.

I have been a member of numerous bands' fan boards and there is usually one common thread running between most of them:

People love to complain and are usually unhappy with said band.

Unfortunately, this is the reality of the situation. Also, given the fucked up predicament that GN'R has been in for years, this type of behavior is even more heavily emphasized within these particular boards.

This about sums it up.

I used to think that if GN'R released music more frequently,there would be less complaining. I'm not so sure that would change the amount of complaining so much as the nature of the complaints. Instead of complaints about releasing more music, period, there would be complaints that there aren't enough rockers on the album, or that the rockers aren't bluesy enough, or inevitably that song X would sound better if Slash played on it. The list could go on and on.

This actually makes me wonder something else, and not to derail the thread, but if the answer is "no", then what incentive is there or should there be to even to try to please the hardcore fanbase if it's impossible to do so, at least universally? In other words, if it is impossible to please the hardcore fanbase, if it's a losing proposition from the get-go, why even try?

Ali

Because they help pay the bills and help promote the band............

I'm not saying don't do anything. I'm just saying don't do anything with the intention of trying to appease the fan base when that is an impossible task. Do what you want to do creatively, with your career because you as the artist want to do it.

Ali

[SoulMonster]

As a fan of Axl Rose, I would be more than happy if he chose to release music more than once every 15 years.

Axl releasing music every 3-4 years would shut up a huge portion of the negative group.

Actually, his average release rate is more like a record every 4-5 years. And if we exclude the years when the band was practically dead, which you insist on counting, then it drops further. We shouldn't expect a new album every 5th year, though, because older bands tend to release less frequently. So lets say every 6-8 years. That would be 2014-2016 for the next one.

How do you figure every 4-5 years?

He started the ball rolling in 1999 or 2000.

Why are you limiting his production in GN'R to only those year. Surely he started Guns N' Roses in 1985. I didn't read rest of your post.

[rudolf1978]

I was happy in 2010, not as 1991-92 BUT at least happy.Now when i see Axl Rose singing in 2011-2012 no.

[The_Universal_Sigh]

As a fan of Axl Rose, I would be more than happy if he chose to release music more than once every 15 years.

Axl releasing music every 3-4 years would shut up a huge portion of the negative group.

Actually, his average release rate is more like a record every 4-5 years. And if we exclude the years when the band was practically dead, which you insist on counting, then it drops further. We shouldn't expect a new album every 5th year, though, because older bands tend to release less frequently. So lets say every 6-8 years. That would be 2014-2016 for the next one.

How do you figure every 4-5 years?

He started the ball rolling in 1999 or 2000.

Why are you limiting his production in GN'R to only those year. Surely he started Guns N' Roses in 1985. I didn't read rest of your post.

This post, and you're "GNR releases an album every 4-5 years" post are just so bad. Trolling, or willful blind idiocy, at it's worst.