ManetsBR Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) This is from The Picture of Dorian Gray:The artist is the creator of beautiful things. To reveal art and conceal the artist is art's aim. The critic is he who can translate into another manner or a new material his impression of beautiful things.[...]No artist desires to prove anything. Even things that are true can be proved. No artist has ethical sympathies. An ethical sympathy in an artist is an unpardonable mannerism of style. No artist is ever morbid. The artist can express everything. Thought and language are to the artist instruments of an art. Vice and virtue are to the artist materials for an art. From the point of view of form, the type of all the arts is the art of the musician. From the point of view of feeling, the actor's craft is the type. All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Diversity of opinion about a work of art shows that the work is new, complex, and vital. When critics disagree, the artist is in accord with himself. We can forgive a man for making a useful thing as long as he does not admire it. The only excuse for making a useless thing is that one admires it intensely.All art is quite useless.In my opinion, the fact that some people love Chinese Democracy while other people hate it, tells much about it. And I guess Oscar Wilde would know better than most of you... Edited February 14, 2013 by ManetsBR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.wa.T Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Some people like it, others dont. Whats the big deal? It really is that simple, no need to bring Oscar into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Drama Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Oh, I thought he actually said something about Chinese Democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I think most "critics" are in general agreement on CD, as are most people outside of these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lahey Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Punctuality is the thief of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyReedsexmachine Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Oscar Wilde fuck you Chinese Democracy is crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saber_ Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I think most "critics" are in general agreement on CD, as are most people outside of these forums.Minus the 3 million+ who bought it. And minus many of the concertgoers who enjoy the CD songs which are performed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcano62 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I think most "critics" are in general agreement on CD, as are most people outside of these forums.Minus the 3 million+ who bought it. And minus many of the concertgoers who enjoy the CD songs which are performed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosaj Thing Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Oscar Wilde fuck you Chinese Democracy is crap :rofl-lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfse Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I am the original Dizzyreedsexmachine fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I think most "critics" are in general agreement on CD, as are most people outside of these forums.Minus the 3 million+ who bought it. And minus many of the concertgoers who enjoy the CD songs which are performed.Yeah cos all 3 million who bought it love it. That's some brilliant logic you eejits have right there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roush Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I take it brainsaber's never been to a used CD store before. Chinese Democracy and St. Anger copies abound. Also, does the GN'R community really need Oscar Wilde quotes to justify Axl's $14 mil disaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saber_ Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I think most "critics" are in general agreement on CD, as are most people outside of these forums.Minus the 3 million+ who bought it. And minus many of the concertgoers who enjoy the CD songs which are performed.Yeah cos all 3 million who bought it love it. That's some brilliant logic you eejits have right there I think you're a wee bit confused, mister high ranking mensa member. First of all, I never said all 3 million who bought it "loved" it. I was responding to your post about critics and people outside this forum. If you actually read the critics' reviews, Chinese Democracy wasn't as reviled, hated, or poorly reviewed as you seem to have deluded yourself into believing. It got middling reviews, not terrible ones. So therefore most critics weren't in "general agreement." As for people outside this forum, people keep going to the shows, and almost all of those people enjoy the songs performed from CD. Sincerely,Axl eejit #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustycage Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Greatest album of all time. Support your band people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Oscar Wilde is either spinning or laughing his ass off in his grave. Probably the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacardimayne Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I think most "critics" are in general agreement on CD, as are most people outside of these forums.The album actually got generally good reviews from critics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Some people like it, others dont. Whats the big deal? It really is that simple, no need to bring Oscar into it.I guess the point is when its bad critics tend to agree. But if there is different opinions, as in some think its good, then it may just be new and not always understood but good nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I think most "critics" are in general agreement on CD, as are most people outside of these forums.Minus the 3 million+ who bought it. And minus many of the concertgoers who enjoy the CD songs which are performed.Yeah cos all 3 million who bought it love it. That's some brilliant logic you eejits have right there I think you're a wee bit confused, mister high ranking mensa member. First of all, I never said all 3 million who bought it "loved" it. I was responding to your post about critics and people outside this forum. If you actually read the critics' reviews, Chinese Democracy wasn't as reviled, hated, or poorly reviewed as you seem to have deluded yourself into believing. It got middling reviews, not terrible ones. So therefore most critics weren't in "general agreement." As for people outside this forum, people keep going to the shows, and almost all of those people enjoy the songs performed from CD. Sincerely,Axl eejit #1I finally realised who you two remind me of Now to address your idiocy. I stated most people are in general agreement, critics and most people outside these forums. I never said that it was "reviled, hated, or poorly reviewed" by anyone. The OP quoted Wilde as stating - "Diversity of opinion about a work of art shows that the work is new, complex, and vital. When critics disagree, the artist is in accord with himself."I don't believe that Chinese Democracy falls into this categorisation. The general consensus from the critics is "middling" as you put it.Volcano brought up the 3 million that bought it as some sort of lame duck defence against an imaginary accusation. I replied that it was stupid to assume that all the people that bought it loved it, just as it is stupid to assume they hated it. As for your assertion that almost all the people attending the shows enjoy the songs from Chinese Democracy that is just pure conjecture on your behalf. Plenty of people would say that those songs are used for piss breaks and beer runs. There is no way of measuring that either. So take your pissy attitude elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 If you're going to compare GNR to classic writers and artists, compare it to works that were commissioned. Oscar also had a day job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXL_N_DIZZY Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I think most "critics" are in general agreement on CD, as are most people outside of these forums.The album actually got generally good reviews from critics.This. Metacritic has it scored 64 ("generally mixed to positive reviews") from reviews by 28 different "critics" and an 8.2 ("Universal Acclaim") user rating based off 349 user reviews. Some well-known critics (David Fricke, Chuck Klosterman, etc.) were extremely positive about the album in particular. Hell- even John Parales (NY Times) had to admit that he liked "Shacklers Revenge". Anyway- "bad reviews" is not the problem with Chinese's rep/legacy. Under-performance sales-wise in the US is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Its not even sales. Its just not the classic line up. If it was you can add two more stars to each review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustycage Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 St. Anger got a 65 at metacritic, for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXL_N_DIZZY Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 St. Anger got a 65 at metacritic, for what it's worth.It means any assertion that "critics" didn't like St. Anger would be even more invalid...Though to be fair to Chinese- St. Anger's score is based off fewer "critic" reviews (20) and its "user rating" is signficantly lower (5.7)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustycage Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) Also, 340+ people aren't a good sample size of the population. LOLI think reassurance from a website that most of the world couldn't give a shit about is dubious. Edited February 15, 2013 by Rustycage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXL_N_DIZZY Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Also, 340+ people aren't a good sample size of the population. LOLI think reassurance from a website that most of the world couldn't give a shit about is dubious.Never said it was. Nor am I looking for "reassurance" on anything. The issue under discussion is whether Chinese was "hated" by "critics". An average of 28 critics (many of them prominent) places the album at the "generally mixed to positive" level. Absent some other exhaustive study- there's the answer. Perhaps I shouldn't have referenced the "user ratings"- but on the whole it's interesting to me that they tack with or slightly above the critic ratings while not the case for St. Anger. Disregarding them doesn't change the critical response however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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