Would AFD have been possible if the most of the guys in the band hadn't been into drinking and drugs?

[TombRaider]

I find it funny when people complain about rock singers in their 50s or late 40s not writing the songs that made them famous or that they wrote back in the early days. For instance, when people complain about Dave Mustaine not writing like he used to back when Megadeth was first getting started. While it is true that albums like United Abominations and Endgame are good, they are indeed seriously lacking in the aggression department. But then again, Dave Mustaine was a totally different person when he wrote Black Friday or Rattlehead. He was a drunk and a junkie...

...it is no secret that Slash and Adler were junkies and that Duff was a drunk. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Izzy also did drugs and drank. Axl? I'm not sure. You tell me. Well, I wonder if AFD, with all that aggression and hunger and all those lyrics about drinking (Nightrain) and drugs (Mr. Brownstone), would still have been written by a band that didn't touch drugs or alcohol. And not only that, the fact that they were broke, barely being able to afford meals on a regular basis, helped create the sound, the joy, the passion and, like I said, the aggression we find on AFD.

But I just can't see a guy in his late 30s or early 40s writing a song about partying all night long or signing about misogyny or a guy who's 19 or 18 and who's never had a drink or gotten high writing any of the songs on AFD. I don't know.

I guess my question has to do with both the drugs and the alcohol fueling the band and channeling their drive, but also about the moment. AFD came out and it is the great album it is, because you had the right individuals, who'd gone through the right experiences to bring them together to create such a rock masterpiece.

any thoughts?

This is why I don't see GnR, or any side project of the old Gunners, ever writing something that comes close to AFD in terms of passion and aggression.

Edited June 24, 2013 by TombRaider

[Rustycage]

Drugs are the "muse" for a ton of the artists we listen to. I think it's fucking stupid to act like artists using drugs is a bad thing.

[DieselDaisy]

Appetite simply would not exist. It is funny watching all of the Axl nutswingers get all puritanical and pious about drugs and drink in order to throw verbal missiles at Slash and Adler.

[abpagain]

Simply: No.

[Rovim]

Fuck no. to be inspired you need drugs and sometimes porn.

[Val22]

Well, all the members of GNR wrote what they knew from their life experiences, so probably not.

I'm sure plenty of bands in the 60's and 70's wouldn't have written a lot of their music if they weren't high.

I watched the Crossfire Hurricane special on the Rolling Stones and Keith would do cocaine all day and record at night, if he was up to it.

Mick said it was crazy because after awhile Keith couldn't stay up long enough to record. They would just record live for the record during the night.

Anyway, when I was a kid growing up in the 60's, since I didn't do drugs, most of the bands I liked and the music they played, I never realized what the songs were really about? Crazy. Anyway, I had a cousin who was addicted to drugs and that was my brother's and I scared straight, so looking at him we knew that wasn't cool.

Anyway, I mean Welcome to the Jungle was inspired by some black guy in NYC asking Axl if he new he was in the jungle? Nightrain is definitely about drinking, even though I think someone back on MTV in the 80's asked Slash what it was about and he said nothing. lol Shows how drunk he was.

Anyway, as I hate to admit about GNR's drunk and drug days, AFD was probably as great as it is because of the lives they had back then.

[abpagain]

Fuck no. to be inspired you need drugs and sometimes porn.

I disagree with this statement as a generalization. However, for someones inspiration to entertain me at least one of those might be involved in the end product.

Mostly though because violence was left out.

[Rovim]

Fuck no. to be inspired you need drugs and sometimes porn.

I disagree with this statement as a generalization. However, for someones inspiration to entertain me at least one of those might be involved in the end product.

Mostly though because violence was left out.

I was joking about the drugs.

[Val22]

Fuck no. to be inspired you need drugs and sometimes porn.

I disagree with this statement as a generalization. However, for someones inspiration to entertain me at least one of those might be involved in the endproduct. Well, GNR have always been honest about their drinking and drugs, so since that's what they were doing at the time, it had to have influenced their music.

Mostly though because violence was left out.

[alfierose]

Sad thing is though for every Slash or Keith there are 10 x the amount of people for whom drugs are an addiction minus the muse. I remember when i was at school there were a distinct group of rocker kids, this was about 1992, there was about 5 or 6 of them, they used to wear GnR leather Jackets, bandanas etc..they stood out a fair bit as in my part of the UK grunge and alternative was more popular along with the Manchester scene stuff. I was a bit of a goth back then.

A little while after we all left school i heard that one of those kids was found dead by his twin brother from a heroin overdose. He was 17. I always wondered if the GnR idolisation was an influence? As far as i know heroin wasn't a big drug of choice amongst teens in our area at that time, i never heard of anyone else doing it, E was far more popular. This thread just reminded me of this sad story.

[themadcaplaughs]

To answer what was said by the original poster, many have said Izzy was even more a junkie than Slash and Steven in the early days of the band. In his book, Slash recalls Izzy showing up to songwriting sessions for Use Your Illusion frighteningly messed up on drugs. I have no doubt that if Izzy had not been forced to go clean, he'd probably be as bad a case as Steven.

Axl we've heard, experimented with herion in the early days of the band but had pretty much gotten off hard drugs by 1987/1988. Reports from those around the band at the time say that Axl smoked a heroic amount of weed and did 'shrooms while writing/recording/mixing the Use Your Illusion albums, but had long since stopped doing much more. We still hear the occasional speculation, however, the Axl does cocaine these days.

Edited June 25, 2013 by themadcaplaughs

[Apollo]

Appetite simply would not exist. It is funny watching all of the Axl nutswingers get all puritanical and pious about drugs and drink in order to throw verbal missiles at Slash and Adler.

Great post.

[ColdHeartBreaker]

Appetite simply would not exist. It is funny watching all of the Axl nutswingers get all puritanical and pious about drugs and drink in order to throw verbal missiles at Slash and Adler.

Great post.

You're a moron.

[Rustycage]

Sad thing is though for every Slash or Keith there are 10 x the amount of people for whom drugs are an addiction minus the muse.

The creme rises to the top.

Can you name many influential rock musicians that never used drugs?

Those kids in your example just sound like typical dumbasses. Just because you like music, that doesn't make you a musician. They were supposed to have a muse because they dressed like "rockers?" LOL

[abpagain]

Imagine if Alice in Chains didn't use drugs? DIRT! No Dirt? (my times people) forget about most underrated self-titled album. People forget that the filth of Guns becoming mainstream due to "sweet child o' mine" (Paradise city vs. girls girls girs) opened the way for talented Junkies. Paradise City, probably the most upbeat sounding song on afd is truly depressing. Paradise city isn't paradise.

In Phil I trust. Not too many people who get harder as they get older. Philip H Anselmo. He had a ballad or two. This Love, Cemetery Gates. Not fifties yet but not far off.

[maynard]

trent reznor's best album (the fragile) was recorded when trent was doing drugs, he was miserable but after he got clean he never released something as great. not saying i prefer him as a junkie, but yeah, every nin fan would agree with me. i'm happy he's healthy and still releasing and creating great music, but he will never top the fragile.

[abpagain]

trent reznor's best album (the fragile) was recorded when trent was doing drugs, he was miserable but after he got clean he never released something as great. not saying i prefer him as a junkie, but yeah, every nin fan would agree with me. i'm happy he's healthy and still releasing and creating great muC, but he will never top the fragile.

Yes you are! (I agree though) Sorry Trent. and while I fucking love the fragile, just like new GnR, when it comes to playing live, you can find quotes from live players that the energy from the crowds comes from playing shit from BROKEN, THE DOWNWARD SPIRAL, ETC.

the fragile had the perfect mix. It was Use Your Illusion 1 + 2. Epic. Seen it so many times here which made the word Epic become a joke, but both double albums had the perfect mix.

APD followed by Illusions, and Downward Spiral followed by The Fragile. Musical art at it's finest. One difference, is Trent still represents live with his hired musicians and is despite his secrecy, he takes care of the fans.

[DieselDaisy]

Stephen King's best novels were written when he was smoking joints.

[Orsys]

They sang about what they knew, and what they knew was raw. Kind of tough to sound raw when what you now know is mansions in the hills, sports cars, kids and expensive vacations. That's why AFD cannot happen for them now.

[abpagain]

Downward spiral = appetite. Fragile = Illusions. (Broken is raw and angry and hard...my taste if not so epic) Pretty Hate machine... eh it ranks up with GnR Lies and Cowboys from Hell. Everything I just said is probably heresetic. Fuck all of you people who disagree and are smaller than I am. Otherwise i can be swayedl

Stephen King's best novels were written when he was smoking joints.

Stephen King is not represented well on the screen. What's the deal with that?

They sang about what they knew, and what they knew was raw. Kind of tough to sound raw when what you now know is mansions in the hills, sports cars, kids and expensive vacations. That's why AFD cannot happen for them now.

Once you lose touch with your fan base...

[dalsh327]

I find it funny when people complain about rock singers in their 50s or late 40s not writing the songs that made them famous or that they wrote back in the early days. For instance, when people complain about Dave Mustaine not writing like he used to back when Megadeth was first getting started. While it is true that albums like United Abominations and Endgame are good, they are indeed seriously lacking in the aggression department. But then again, Dave Mustaine was a totally different person when he wrote Black Friday or Rattlehead. He was a drunk and a junkie...

...it is no secret that Slash and Adler were junkies and that Duff was a drunk. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Izzy also did drugs and drank. Axl? I'm not sure. You tell me. Well, I wonder if AFD, with all that aggression and hunger and all those lyrics about drinking (Nightrain) and drugs (Mr. Brownstone), would still have been written by a band that didn't touch drugs or alcohol. And not only that, the fact that they were broke, barely being able to afford meals on a regular basis, helped create the sound, the joy, the passion and, like I said, the aggression we find on AFD.

But I just can't see a guy in his late 30s or early 40s writing a song about partying all night long or signing about misogyny or a guy who's 19 or 18 and who's never had a drink or gotten high writing any of the songs on AFD. I don't know.

I guess my question has to do with both the drugs and the alcohol fueling the band and channeling their drive, but also about the moment. AFD came out and it is the great album it is, because you had the right individuals, who'd gone through the right experiences to bring them together to create such a rock masterpiece.

any thoughts?

This is why I don't see GnR, or any side project of the old Gunners, ever writing something that comes close to AFD in terms of passion and aggression.

When it comes to AFD, the entire collective made it phenomenal, not one thing in particular.

Drugs were a part of the band, but they were working hard and partying hard, but the motivation to make it big was shared by all of them. It's knowing that this is what you really want to do and nothing else, no plan B, just focusing on music 24/7.

There's no denying they wanted to be rock stars, including Izzy. It's just when they got off the road in 1988 and went their ways, and trying to regroup where the problems happened. Having to deal with being recognized, with success, trying to put out new music, having all sorts of people kissing their ass and giving them access to anything they wanted. That shit can turn you into a monster. It's no different than what happens when someone wins the lottery, it might change them, it might not. It might turn them into a monster, or they'll stay grounded. If they were a jerk before, they'll be a bigger jerk with money.

I could see a divorced guy being bitter about women and being completely misogynistic. When someone's in a movie and they're playing a drug addict, John Travolta's a good example here, he had no idea what heroin was like, so Tarantino went into a description about how he could drink tequila up to a point, and that's close to the heroin experience, but not quite. It got Travolta where he needed to go in "Pulp Fiction".

If you've had life experiences, I don't see why someone in their 40s-50s-60s can't write from the perspective of a young punk. Pete Townshend did

"Quadrophenia" in his 30s, but you also bring analysis into the mix the older you get, it's not so black and white, and when you hear ChiDem, a lot of those songs are more indirect than what he wrote back in the day.

Axl probably did heroin just for the experience, so he didn't feel like he was being shut out from what Izzy and Slash were up to. To me that's an artistic journey reason, not dependency. Something like cocaine is to keep the party going because you're on a roll and don't want to stop. And I think weed played a part in Axl's rasp.

[alfierose]

Sad thing is though for every Slash or Keith there are 10 x the amount of people for whom drugs are an addiction minus the muse.

The creme rises to the top.

Can you name many influential rock musicians that never used drugs?

Those kids in your example just sound like typical dumbasses. Just because you like music, that doesn't make you 7 a musician. They were supposed to have a muse because they dressed like "rockers?" LOL

That isn't what i was saying. Drugs have always been an important part of creative muse. Just remarking that those who find their muse are fewer in number than those just plainly lost to addiction. It reminded me of that tragic story. Stop trying to pick a fight where there isn't one. Edited June 25, 2013 by alfierose

[Nosaj Thing]

Drugs are the "muse" for a ton of the artists we listen to. I think it's fucking stupid to act like artists using drugs is a bad thing.

[dalsh327]

The Beatles made all their albums on some form of drugs, it was amphetamines and alcohol that fueled the early albums but that was from doing 12 hours of mostly cover songs.

The big secret is actually in cover songs. Every great band had to learn cover songs, some of them stopped when they put albums out and did all "originals", but more often than not, they stole from others. What did Metallica and GNR have in common? Cover songs.

Edited June 25, 2013 by dalsh327

[volcano62]

I don't think you necessary need drugs to make good music.

There is lots of drug influenced music from the 60s and 70s that is pure shit.

Then you have amazing music example The Doors.

With that said AFD would not be the same without drugs but you can't continue living that life style. I'm surprised Slash, Duff and Adler are still alive.

Stephen King's best novels were written when he was smoking joints.

Weed is not a drug