DJ Ashba's "significant" career.......why do you think Axl chose him?

[Apollo]

Hopefully this won't get moved to Attitude and people can discuss this respectfully and without resorting to a bunch of name-calling.

Why do you think Axl chose DJ to be in GnR???

I've heard all the accolades that DJ gets on this forum. I just read a post from a regular contributer/poster who used the word "significant" about 5 times while describing DJ's career. That gets said so often by die-hard Axl fans that we all start to take it as truth. I decided to look into his "significant" career a little closer.

After looking at the actual facts, I have to wonder why Axl chose this guy to be in GnR. No offense to him or his fans, but he has had an extremely mediocre career.

1.

Motley Crue. People on this forum constantly bash Motley Crue.......but then they praise DJ for writing on one of their albums. (You can't make this up). Anyway - the record opened well as it was their first album in 8 years and feature the return of Tommy Lee. The album also got a huge amount of promotion. How'd it do? Sold 99,000 copies its first week and then quickly dissapeared. The 2nd and 3rd singles from the album didn't even break the top 25 on the ROCK charts!!! Album was a failure, not the success everybody hoped.

2.

Sixx AM........significant?

Their big "hit" Life Is Beautiful was a moderately successful rock song, but wasn't even one of the 100 top songs of year year (billboard). The album sold 400,000 copies. That really isn't considered significant.

Their second album sold 30,000 copies in it's initial week. Hardly significant. Didn't even go Gold.

3.

He produced a christmas album for Neil Diamond that was a huge failure. Debuted at number 60 on billboard and quickly dropped off. Didn't even go Gold. Got terrible reviews.

4.

Beautiful Creatures. In spite of playing on Ozzfest, their single peaked at #37 on the rock charts and they were dropped from the label after one album.

5.

Addiction to the Friction. Do I need to say anything else?

6.

BulletBoys. Didn't release an album with what was a one-hit wonder back in the 80s.

7.

Hasn't contributed anything to an original GnR song.

From that career, why do you think that Axl decided that DJ would be a good fit to carry on his vision of GnR?????

[gunsfanoldie]

Because he looks like Slash.

No but seriously, I'm not really sure. My guess would be because he's "moderately" well known in modern rock circles (why, I'm not really sure from the reasons listed, but I'm not a fan of those bands you listed above and I knew about him before GNR) and he seemed like fresh young blood for the band. He also appears to the only one that looks genuine "bad boy" for them at this point, and whats hilarious about that is thats all about selling his clothing line and not what I think he's actually about.

Just my two cents, but those are my three guesses. I do agree its a weird choice based on his past, but I could see where Axl was coming from.

[November_rain]

And haven´t you stopped to think that Axl chose him simply because he likes him?.

[Apollo]

And haven´t you stopped to think that Axl chose him simply because he likes him?.

Sure I have. And that's probaby the most obvious reason. His career isn't significant or successful enough to warrant him replacing Slash/Izzy.

So the most obvious reason would be that 1, he was available and 2, him and Axl were buddies.

Is that why you think that Axl chose him to be a touring member of GnR?

[rockerman]

Perhaps he (Dj)was the only one stupid enough to accept the offer to willing put his "career" into GNR's hell of limbo, stallouts and delays. Having witnessed Fink and Bucketheads careers rocketship to the moon with thier association with GNR though to himself "this is my big chance"

OR

Maybe he thought by him being in the band..he could turn Axl from the dark side and make GNR relevant to the times and world and going concern again.

OR

Axl probably turned that decision over to Tommy: Tommy flipped a coin and DJ won over that pimply faced kid that thought he was auditioning for a Guns and Roses Tribute Band.

OR

Axl run out of friends from Indiana that knew more than three chords on the guitar?

OR

DJ pays Axl to play the part of Slash on stage.

[November_rain]

And haven´t you stopped to think that Axl chose him simply because he likes him?.

Sure I have. And that's probaby the most obvious reason. His career isn't significant or successful enough to warrant him replacing Slash/Izzy.

So the most obvious reason would be that 1, he was available and 2, him and Axl were buddies.

Is that why you think that Axl chose him to be a touring member of GnR?

I don´t know if Axl and Dj were friends or not, or if Dj´s career is significant or not, but it is obvious that if Axl didn´t like Dj he wouldn´t be in the band, don´t you agree?

DJ pays Axl to play the part of Slash on stage.

LOL, if that were the case Dj would be bankrupt

[Guest NGOG]

His career isn't significant or successful enough to warrant him replacing Slash/Izzy.

Slash was replaced by Robin Finck who was replaced by Dj. Izzy was replaced by Gilby Clarke who was replaced by Richard Fortus. Dj plays the GNR parts in a typically GNR style and Richard is by far a superior player to Gilby.

Also, you're wrong to say Dj hasn't done any GNR songs yet. He's demoed 12 songs.

[Apollo]

His career isn't significant or successful enough to warrant him replacing Slash/Izzy.

Slash was replaced by Robin Finck who was replaced by Dj. Izzy was replaced by Gilby Clarke who was replaced by Richard Fortus. Dj plays the GNR parts in a typically GNR style and Richard is by far a superior player to Gilby.

Also, you're wrong to say Dj hasn't done any GNR songs yet. He's demoed 12 songs.

So you agree that is career really doesn't have any "significant" moments?

But can you give us more information on the 12 songs he has "demoed" for GnR? Names of the songs, which other band members contributed to them, did Axl write on them, has Axl supplied vocals. Are they just music or did DJ add lyrics as well?

[gunsfanoldie]

His career isn't significant or successful enough to warrant him replacing Slash/Izzy.

Slash was replaced by Robin Finck who was replaced by Dj. Izzy was replaced by Gilby Clarke who was replaced by Richard Fortus. Dj plays the GNR parts in a typically GNR style and Richard is by far a superior player to Gilby.

Also, you're wrong to say Dj hasn't done any GNR songs yet. He's demoed 12 songs.

So you agree that is career really doesn't have any "significant" moments?

But can you give us more information on the 12 songs he has "demoed" for GnR? Names of the songs, which other band members contributed to them, did Axl write on them, has Axl supplied vocals. Are they just music or did DJ add lyrics as well?

And did he actually contribute his own original material or did he just listen to what Axl told him to play?

[moreblack]

To his credit, Ashba plays the old songs much more correctly than Robin ever did.

[username]

I don't mean to bash either of them with this. But maybe because Ashba is also an older man trying to look and act like a messed up teenager. Yes, it does sound like bashing. But I think there's something there Axl related to.

[themadcaplaughs]

His career isn't significant or successful enough to warrant him replacing Slash/Izzy.

Slash was replaced by Robin Finck who was replaced by Dj. Izzy was replaced by Gilby Clarke who was replaced by Richard Fortus. Dj plays the GNR parts in a typically GNR style and Richard is by far a superior player to Gilby.

Also, you're wrong to say Dj hasn't done any GNR songs yet. He's demoed 12 songs.

Wouldn't it go Izzy --> Gilby --> Paul --> Richard?

[axlsalinger]

Having read Groghan's post paying so much attention to record sales, I realized he may have spent several years in a coma, so thought I'd help out with some info. While you were asleep, this thing called an "mp3" was invented, and people started illegally downloading songs and albums on the internet from their "peers". By the millions. So in 2013, nobody buys albums, and the numbers you quoted don't mean a goddamn thing.

I'm not a big fan of DJ (nor do I hate or bash him), but he has been in some well-received bands and written some decent rock songs. I haven't heard much of the Motley album he helped write, but it would seem that Axl liked his songwriting skills in addition to his guitar playing. Which still probably don't mean anywhere near as much as the fact that he likes DJ personally.

I haven't heard enough of his previous material to really comment, so if you think it isn't good and want to point that out, by all means do so. Just understand that album sales and charts are completely irrelevant to the discussion.

[gunsfanoldie]

Having read Groghan's post paying so much attention to record sales, I realized he may have spent several years in a coma, so thought I'd help out with some info. While you were asleep, this thing called an "mp3" was invented, and people started illegally downloading songs and albums on the internet from their "peers". By the millions. So in 2013, nobody buys albums, and the numbers you quoted don't mean a goddamn thing.

While there is a truth to that, it is not as cut and dry as you make it seem. People can download so they do download. Yes thats true, but you can still have an album sell enough copies to be considered a success. When you are a well known mainstream band, that first week of sales is the make or break. Most likely, if you have enough fans, you can sell an amount that is admirable that first week. Look at a band like Black Sabbath. Their latest album went to #1 that first week because they clearly had enough fans and demand to sell. After that first week it was out of #1, because the people that wanted it already had it, and the rest just downloaded it. But getting the #1 in that first week is a big deal. GNR is a band of that stature where they should have enough fans clamoring for a release that in the first week it does well. However, they didn't, and the album was pretty much a flop from the beginning. I still remember the sight of running into Best Buy the day the album was released and seeing this unattended stand of Chinese Democracy albums that looked like it was the plague from how people were avoiding it. People couldn't have cared less. So those GNR fans that should have brought the album at least into the charts on that first week had all vanished by that point since they stopped caring. That definitely says something that in the first week, even fans of the band that had waited 15 years for a new album of original material couldn't bring the album to the charts. Sales aren't really that important anymore, but that first week of sales is a good indicator of whether people still care about this band.

[Apollo]

Having read Groghan's post paying so much attention to record sales, I realized he may have spent several years in a coma, so thought I'd help out with some info. While you were asleep, this thing called an "mp3" was invented, and people started illegally downloading songs and albums on the internet from their "peers". By the millions. So in 2013, nobody buys albums, and the numbers you quoted don't mean a goddamn thing.

I'm not a big fan of DJ (nor do I hate or bash him), but he has been in some well-received bands and written some decent rock songs. I haven't heard much of the Motley album he helped write, but it would seem that Axl liked his songwriting skills in addition to his guitar playing. Which still probably don't mean anywhere near as much as the fact that he likes DJ personally.

I haven't heard enough of his previous material to really comment, so if you think it isn't good and want to point that out, by all means do so. Just understand that album sales and charts are completely irrelevant to the discussion.

LOL. Really?

So when people defend or praise Axl, they use CD's sales figures as a positive. Especially to point out that it outsold Slash's last album.

BUT if it shows Axl or GnR in a negative light.............then sales figures don't matter. (I swear, you can't make this stuff up).

Somehow with the internet and mp3 and all that, some bands are able to sell millions of albums. Apparently on DJ has been effected by all of this.

[axlsalinger]

Having read Groghan's post paying so much attention to record sales, I realized he may have spent several years in a coma, so thought I'd help out with some info. While you were asleep, this thing called an "mp3" was invented, and people started illegally downloading songs and albums on the internet from their "peers". By the millions. So in 2013, nobody buys albums, and the numbers you quoted don't mean a goddamn thing.

While there is a truth to that, it is not as cut and dry as you make it seem. People can download so they do download. Yes thats true, but you can still have an album sell enough copies to be considered a success. When you are a well known mainstream band, that first week of sales is the make or break. Most likely, if you have enough fans, you can sell an amount that is admirable that first week. Look at a band like Black Sabbath. Their latest album went to #1 that first week because they clearly had enough fans and demand to sell. After that first week it was out of #1, because the people that wanted it already had it, and the rest just downloaded it. But getting the #1 in that first week is a big deal. GNR is a band of that stature where they should have enough fans clamoring for a release that in the first week it does well. However, they didn't, and the album was pretty much a flop from the beginning. I still remember the sight of running into Best Buy the day the album was released and seeing this unattended stand of Chinese Democracy albums that looked like it was the plague from how people were avoiding it. People couldn't have cared less. So those GNR fans that should have brought the album at least into the charts on that first week had all vanished by that point since they stopped caring. That definitely says something that in the first week, even fans of the band that had waited 15 years for a new album of original material couldn't bring the album to the charts. Sales aren't really that important anymore, but that first week of sales is a good indicator of whether people still care about this band.

I agree with all of that, but it doesn't change the central point being made. None of it is a reflection of a musician's skill at playing or writing.

Having read Groghan's post paying so much attention to record sales, I realized he may have spent several years in a coma, so thought I'd help out with some info. While you were asleep, this thing called an "mp3" was invented, and people started illegally downloading songs and albums on the internet from their "peers". By the millions. So in 2013, nobody buys albums, and the numbers you quoted don't mean a goddamn thing.

I'm not a big fan of DJ (nor do I hate or bash him), but he has been in some well-received bands and written some decent rock songs. I haven't heard much of the Motley album he helped write, but it would seem that Axl liked his songwriting skills in addition to his guitar playing. Which still probably don't mean anywhere near as much as the fact that he likes DJ personally.

I haven't heard enough of his previous material to really comment, so if you think it isn't good and want to point that out, by all means do so. Just understand that album sales and charts are completely irrelevant to the discussion.

LOL. Really?

So when people defend or praise Axl, they use CD's sales figures as a positive. Especially to point out that it outsold Slash's last album.

BUT if it shows Axl or GnR in a negative light.............then sales figures don't matter. (I swear, you can't make this stuff up).

Somehow with the internet and mp3 and all that, some bands are able to sell millions of albums. Apparently on DJ has been effected by all of this.

Record sales are nice and all, but they are reflective of popularity. If you think DJ Ashba pre-GNR was famous enough to sell millions of albums, I have absolutely no idea why. The argument here you seem to be making is that Axl should have hired Justin Bieber to play guitar instead. Or maybe he should now be replaced by Robin Thicke.

[niceguy]

Ok, I have to put my foot down: DJ is not a "well-known" musician, in any way at all. Fine, diehards like us know who he is, but no one outside of these tiny, tiny niches knows him.

I live in Bklyn, one of the most music-centric cities on earth. Every single type of music has diehard fans here, not just whiny indie bullshit. And I've never ever once heard anyone anywhere in this city speak about DJ.

To the idiots who keep saying he was famous before GNR, tell me, if he's so famous, why would he become an employee where he strictly plays material written by other people? And why would he be ok with never releasing new music?

It's because he was nothing before GNR, and in the wider world of music, he is and always be meaningleas.

[axlsalinger]

He was somewhat well known to fans of hard rock music. Not particularly famous.

[Val22]

Yeah, I read about DJ on his website and like I said he updates his twitter account everyday.

He has had tons of career opportunities in his life way before Sixx AM and GNR.

I heard in an interview that when he was asked to join GNR he was honored because it's been one of his favorite bands. He and Axl are good friends now and they grew up in towns in Indiana not far from each other. They must have stuff in common since they're both from the same state.

Anyway, DJ is listed as lead guitar for both GNR and Sixx AM and has had other bands he has founded as well as a solo career. He also has his clothing line and I think he also does something with movies?

The other members seem to keep busy too, so I don't think they're worried about doing any new music anytime soon.

[Apollo]

Val............so you have missed the quotes from band members saying they wish they could sit down with the band and write a new record?

By saying that you don't think they care about recording new music with GnR, are you admitting that they have accepted their role as just being hired guns in a touring nostalic band?

I suppose you and I disagree on this, but I view the things you listed as being a huge reason why we've gotten one album from Axl Rose in the past 20 years. I wish that GnR was the MAIN priority for everybody in the band. You actually think it's a good thing that all these guys only view GnR as a side project for themselves?

*********

Axlsalinger..........uhhh, no. Anywhere in my post did I say they should hire Thicke or Bieber to play guitar? Let's not go to extreme examples to try and prove points. Actually, I don't know if either of those guys are good guitar players......are they? I don't automatically dismiss somebody without listening and seeing what they can do.

And Yes, obviously, you are correct in that album sales don't always reflect talent. Nobody has said that is does.

My topic was in response to people on this forum who proclaimed DJ to be a rock guitar God. Somebody had just made a post talking about what a significant guitar player he was and listed his "significant" side projects. For example, they listed his producing a Neil Diamond as a reason that DJ is a "significant" guitar player. I looked up the info on that and discoverd that he worked on a ND album that was a HUGE flop. Same thing with talking about his work with bands like Sixx and Beautiful Creatures. I only used sales totals to point out that they were failures, not successes.

Again - Sixx AM's second album totally bombed. BC put out one album and got dropped.

See my point? I'm not using sales totals to try and praise or downplay DJ or anybody. I'm using them to point out that statements made by some posters are simply not true.

On a side note, don't you feel that sales totals do play a part in how we rate musicians? You and I might not think that Justin Bieber is very talented. But more people love him than love GnR, so he must be doing something right. Bieber puts out music that millions of people love - so in my book, more power to him. Your debate has gone on since the beginning of music. My parents told me that the artists I loved had no talent..........their parents told them the same thing...........their parents told them the same thing, etc, etc, etc. You and I might not think Bieber is talented. But he is "talented" enough to fill a type of music that literally millions of people love.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Groghan

[axlsalinger]

It's a little more complex of an argument than either you or I have made, and I don't want to get into a continual back and forth here. I just took exception to your point that Ashba sucks because he hasn't sold a lot of records ... I would argue the opposite, at a time when the record industry has been decimated, he has actually managed to sell a decent amount of records. I view that as a positive not a negative - he has managed to carve out a decent niche for himself in a cutthroat industry while it was in the process of getting completely decimated.

The fact remains that young people buy way more albums than older music fans ... it's true now, and it was true even before Napster and peer-to-peer. Neil Diamond is a 60's pop star ... the fact that he's friends with DJ and that they worked together, to me, is pretty cool. The fact that he didn't sell a lot of albums in 2012 (or whenever it came out) is not surprising to me in the least. In fact, it would have been kind of shocking if he had. And either way, it has little or nothing to do with DJ Ashba.

I guess I sit somewhere in the middle of the Ashba arguments (which, let's be honest, are completely ridiculous and getting more and more irritating). I don't think he's particularly great, or all that bad. He's decent, and if Axl likes him and wants him in the band I really don't have a problem with it. If posters don't like him, that's fine but there is no need for the constant bashing. (Although, the swag jokes are generally pretty funny). Conversely, the people that praise him can be ridiculous as well.

The fact that he has talked about and apparently worked with Axl on new material is just about the only hope we have left as fans of this monstrosity of wasted talent and diminishing expectations.

[The Real McCoy]

Beautiful Creatures kicked ass.

[rockerman]

DJ missed his shot in the 80's and 90's of being on the scene when the scene was the scene! Now, sadly , like many other 80's dudes they live the thrill by nostalgia mongering.

[jimb0]

DJ out of all the guitarists in GNR respects Slash's solo's the most by trying to play them correctly. He doesn't always do so but at least he tries. I knew who DJ was because I was a big fan of the Heroin Diaries.

[merces]

I think Axl just likes DJ's sound/work he's done in those bands, I don't think mr Rose has been investigating the number of sales he had in those bands...

Sixx AM (with 2 albums) has probably sold more than Buckethead (+40 records), the also had more songs in the rockcharts than the Buck, does that make him better ?

just saying, who cares about the sales

Edited August 7, 2013 by merces