The Vault

[Guest NGOG]

Whenever Axl dies and GNR therefore dissolves, you could imagine the label dispatching some sort of WALL-E into Axl's vault scanning through the thousands of files for a hit.

[ManetsBR]

HAHAHAHA imagine that.

[ManetsBR]

Paul Huge is locked in the vault along with CD2. With a bit of luck he'll get leaked too and can come and tell us what's in there and if it's worth the aggro.

Edited August 15, 2013 by ManetsBR

[alfierose]

Paul Huge is locked in the vault along with CD2. With a bit of luck he'll get leaked too and can come and tell us what's in there and if it's worth the aggro.

You know I'm right.

"Please let me out Axl, I promise I'll be good. It's been thirteen years now and I really need a wee"

[wfuckinga]

Paul Huge is locked in the vault along with CD2. With a bit of luck he'll get leaked too and can come and tell us what's in there and if it's worth the aggro.

You know I'm right.

"Please let me out Axl, I promise I'll be good. It's been thirteen years now and I really need a wee"

[Mr. Dude]

There has to be material from the old band. They used to record their shows, rehearsals and behind the scenes extravaganzas. There is at least one album worth of material that Duff commented on that they had worked on. It wasnt 2000 intentions but one with the old line up mostly intact.

Legally speaking this GNR is not structured the same as the old GNR and id bet that there is some behind the scenes legal suites to block access to any and all of the old material. Axl cockblocked the old band from capitalizing on the idea that the old music could be utilized in movies..even went so far as to have the new band record the whole AFD material ..(and did so under the guise that they had to learn it in the first place)The real reason was to reduce actual revenue streams to the old group. Its complicated but the actual playing and using of the song increase in % depending on who is playing on the recording.

But take for instance the use of WTTJ in BlackHawk Down...that would have been a bonanza for old GNR to make some revenue off of but Axl flat out denied the use of it.

That legal manouver is so common in the US. A corporation can disperse and cease to exist legally and then turn around and restructure with the same name, same CEO,Same board and same players/employees etc BUT dump its stockholders and its pension plans and benifit policies.It can even change the terms of employment. It declares that it has gone out of business when in fact all it has done is shift laterly. It has dicked millions of people out of their retirement pensions and investment portfolios while consolidating its assets under another legal entity.Most of our car manufactures have done it, major electronic firms and manufacturing firms like Whirlpool. Its a shitty and unfair thing to do but it is legal.Insideof that manouver is also the protection of any of the old assets and business affairs from lawsuits. It absolves any wrongdoing of the Ceo and board from further legal threats to their assets etc...(for Axl that could have been a motivating factor given the myriad of legal issues he commented on in 08)

This is exactly what Axl did with GNR. He got the name, ended the old corporation and then turned around and made former memebers of that corporation ..hired employees and it changed thier ability to capitalize on OLD GNR ASSETS.

So many in this forum dont understand when they say "Slash quit the band" No Slash was reduced to a minor player and hired hand for AXLS new GNR entity.He and Duff and the rest of the crew were no longer able to make any decisions or choices in the direction , execution and image of GNR. Axl stated that way back in 95 when he said that Slash hadnt done business with GNR for something like 2 years.

When a band is signed they form a legal entity that defines who and what their business is about. Depending on the structure.. often its equal imput from the members. This was true of OLD GNR. TO make financial and business decisions required a vote. Just as in any and all corporations do. That was eliminated when Axl "quit" and legally disolved the old GNR legal entity and turned around and formed new GNR. That is what Paul Huge was doing on the record without consultation to the rest of the newly formed GNR entity but at that time the same band structure of old UYI era GNR. It was a shot across the bow of Slash and the rest of them that they would have NO SAY in the future business of GNR. That was Axls legal right. Thats what was behind him seeking out Fink before Slash departed. Absolute control over the GNR empire and its future enterprises.

Consider how controlled the present era is on band exposes like magazines features,photoshoots, cross over promotions, celebrity functions particularly when it is GNR related. Notice how squimish some of them get when asked about the future of GNR. Evasive to a large degree or vague about concrete plans. Im betting that none of them feel tremedously secure in thier positions. That isnt because the band doesnt want recognition or promotion individually as rockstars and music makers- that is Axls doing. The take home message is teh band...are employees and will remain in the background until further notice.

You have got so much wrong, it's hard to know where to start, guess I just wont bother, pal.

I agree, way too much inaccuracy there to even begin to try to refute.

[Chewbacca]

I don't think we will ever see the Illusions sessions.

[Faxl Rows]

Kevin Cogill's balls

MSL's soul

Fortus' hair straighteners

A vat of Ron sauce

Pro shot footage of the 3-hour meeting

[jman2000]

Pro shot footage of the 3-hour meeting

Edited December 13, 2013 by jman2000

[DangerousCurves]

I have this mental picture of Axl sitting on the floor of his walk-in closet, holding an old beat up Xerox box full of stuff and whispering...

[Apollo]

it's right next to Prince's vault.

he puts axl to shame. then again he actually releases a good portion of what he does record, unlike axl.

Wouldn't it be amazing if Axl decided to share that music/video with his FANS?

[snooze72]

There has to be material from the old band. They used to record their shows, rehearsals and behind the scenes extravaganzas. There is at least one album worth of material that Duff commented on that they had worked on. It wasnt 2000 intentions but one with the old line up mostly intact.

Legally speaking this GNR is not structured the same as the old GNR and id bet that there is some behind the scenes legal suites to block access to any and all of the old material. Axl cockblocked the old band from capitalizing on the idea that the old music could be utilized in movies..even went so far as to have the new band record the whole AFD material ..(and did so under the guise that they had to learn it in the first place)The real reason was to reduce actual revenue streams to the old group. Its complicated but the actual playing and using of the song increase in % depending on who is playing on the recording.
But take for instance the use of WTTJ in BlackHawk Down...that would have been a bonanza for old GNR to make some revenue off of but Axl flat out denied the use of it.


That legal manouver is so common in the US. A corporation can disperse and cease to exist legally and then turn around and restructure with the same name, same CEO,Same board and same players/employees etc BUT dump its stockholders and its pension plans and benifit policies.It can even change the terms of employment. It declares that it has gone out of business when in fact all it has done is shift laterly. It has dicked millions of people out of their retirement pensions and investment portfolios while consolidating its assets under another legal entity.Most of our car manufactures have done it, major electronic firms and manufacturing firms like Whirlpool. Its a shitty and unfair thing to do but it is legal.Insideof that manouver is also the protection of any of the old assets and business affairs from lawsuits. It absolves any wrongdoing of the Ceo and board from further legal threats to their assets etc...(for Axl that could have been a motivating factor given the myriad of legal issues he commented on in 08)
This is exactly what Axl did with GNR. He got the name, ended the old corporation and then turned around and made former memebers of that corporation ..hired employees and it changed thier ability to capitalize on OLD GNR ASSETS.

So many in this forum dont understand when they say "Slash quit the band" No Slash was reduced to a minor player and hired hand for AXLS new GNR entity.He and Duff and the rest of the crew were no longer able to make any decisions or choices in the direction , execution and image of GNR. Axl stated that way back in 95 when he said that Slash hadnt done business with GNR for something like 2 years.
When a band is signed they form a legal entity that defines who and what their business is about. Depending on the structure.. often its equal imput from the members. This was true of OLD GNR. TO make financial and business decisions required a vote. Just as in any and all corporations do. That was eliminated when Axl "quit" and legally disolved the old GNR legal entity and turned around and formed new GNR. That is what Paul Huge was doing on the record without consultation to the rest of the newly formed GNR entity but at that time the same band structure of old UYI era GNR. It was a shot across the bow of Slash and the rest of them that they would have NO SAY in the future business of GNR. That was Axls legal right. Thats what was behind him seeking out Fink before Slash departed. Absolute control over the GNR empire and its future enterprises.
Consider how controlled the present era is on band exposes like magazines features,photoshoots, cross over promotions, celebrity functions particularly when it is GNR related. Notice how squimish some of them get when asked about the future of GNR. Evasive to a large degree or vague about concrete plans. Im betting that none of them feel tremedously secure in thier positions. That isnt because the band doesnt want recognition or promotion individually as rockstars and music makers- that is Axls doing. The take home message is teh band...are employees and will remain in the background until further notice.

To further demonstrate how it would work. One day your the vice president of a megamillion dollar enterprise and you sit on the board making major decisions. You have a corner office and accesses to the companies assets, wealth fame control.... then the next day your a desk jockey in a cubicle getting coffee for your former equals with a reduced role and reduced salary and subject to termination at will.

Yeah, this.

Some things I'd like to see is the 'documentary' shot in China, the backstage/on stage filming in Vegas 2000/2001, the footage from the studio (including Buckethead's chicken coop), footage from the dead VH1 documentary, Halloween party footage...

[estrangedtwat]

I found this topic from 2009:

http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/157835-what-do-you-think-is-still-being-hoarded/

Here we are all these years later....having the SAME fucking discussion.

[IRanOutOfIdeas]

- Possibly Paul Huge.

I died.

[sliverjazz]

Prison In A Postcard, Oceans Of Mars

[axldoyle]

There has to be material from the old band. They used to record their shows, rehearsals and behind the scenes extravaganzas. There is at least one album worth of material that Duff commented on that they had worked on. It wasnt 2000 intentions but one with the old line up mostly intact.

Legally speaking this GNR is not structured the same as the old GNR and id bet that there is some behind the scenes legal suites to block access to any and all of the old material. Axl cockblocked the old band from capitalizing on the idea that the old music could be utilized in movies..even went so far as to have the new band record the whole AFD material ..(and did so under the guise that they had to learn it in the first place)The real reason was to reduce actual revenue streams to the old group. Its complicated but the actual playing and using of the song increase in % depending on who is playing on the recording.

But take for instance the use of WTTJ in BlackHawk Down...that would have been a bonanza for old GNR to make some revenue off of but Axl flat out denied the use of it.

That legal manouver is so common in the US. A corporation can disperse and cease to exist legally and then turn around and restructure with the same name, same CEO,Same board and same players/employees etc BUT dump its stockholders and its pension plans and benifit policies.It can even change the terms of employment. It declares that it has gone out of business when in fact all it has done is shift laterly. It has dicked millions of people out of their retirement pensions and investment portfolios while consolidating its assets under another legal entity.Most of our car manufactures have done it, major electronic firms and manufacturing firms like Whirlpool. Its a shitty and unfair thing to do but it is legal.Insideof that manouver is also the protection of any of the old assets and business affairs from lawsuits. It absolves any wrongdoing of the Ceo and board from further legal threats to their assets etc...(for Axl that could have been a motivating factor given the myriad of legal issues he commented on in 08)

This is exactly what Axl did with GNR. He got the name, ended the old corporation and then turned around and made former memebers of that corporation ..hired employees and it changed thier ability to capitalize on OLD GNR ASSETS.

So many in this forum dont understand when they say "Slash quit the band" No Slash was reduced to a minor player and hired hand for AXLS new GNR entity.He and Duff and the rest of the crew were no longer able to make any decisions or choices in the direction , execution and image of GNR. Axl stated that way back in 95 when he said that Slash hadnt done business with GNR for something like 2 years.

When a band is signed they form a legal entity that defines who and what their business is about. Depending on the structure.. often its equal imput from the members. This was true of OLD GNR. TO make financial and business decisions required a vote. Just as in any and all corporations do. That was eliminated when Axl "quit" and legally disolved the old GNR legal entity and turned around and formed new GNR. That is what Paul Huge was doing on the record without consultation to the rest of the newly formed GNR entity but at that time the same band structure of old UYI era GNR. It was a shot across the bow of Slash and the rest of them that they would have NO SAY in the future business of GNR. That was Axls legal right. Thats what was behind him seeking out Fink before Slash departed. Absolute control over the GNR empire and its future enterprises.

Consider how controlled the present era is on band exposes like magazines features,photoshoots, cross over promotions, celebrity functions particularly when it is GNR related. Notice how squimish some of them get when asked about the future of GNR. Evasive to a large degree or vague about concrete plans. Im betting that none of them feel tremedously secure in thier positions. That isnt because the band doesnt want recognition or promotion individually as rockstars and music makers- that is Axls doing. The take home message is teh band...are employees and will remain in the background until further notice.

To further demonstrate how it would work. One day your the vice president of a megamillion dollar enterprise and you sit on the board making major decisions. You have a corner office and accesses to the companies assets, wealth fame control.... then the next day your a desk jockey in a cubicle getting coffee for your former equals with a reduced role and reduced salary and subject to termination at will.

Although the legal jargon and the notion of this idea may seem correct I think that there were many more reasons as to why Axl thought it was necessary to have the GNR name signed over. Not only has it been proven that Slash and Duff signed over the name in far different circumstances than they initially stated we as fans don't know the full story, whether it was just Axl's being an egomaniac or the old band being a bunch of drugged up wasters. They made good music but did bad business in a sense that's their own problem and although they seemed to have a level hatred towards Axl during the first few years of leaving the band that has dried up in recent years and I think if they had been swindled by him in a way that you are suggesting then this hatred would have never left them. Also you seem to have forgot that Axl, along with Izzy and the very first line up came up with the name so once Slash, Duff and Adler came in it was in theory still his and Izzy's band name, obviously there would have been legal documents signed when they joined the label that gave them equal ownership of the material that they appeared on but once Izzy left then this was Axl's name. I personally think that the original band wanted to go in separate directions and this led to feuds within the band and the guys that left did so on their own accord, they also signed the name over willingly and its their own fault for not considering the consequences of doing so. I'd like to believe that Axl was the innocent party but it takes two to tango and his personality has forced members to leave since (Bucket). Possibly an abbreviated name such as GNR could have been a better solution, but ultimately Axl wanted to take the band in the direction that he saw fit and if he had been able to do so within the first 5 years of the band splitting or even with the old band members then I believe Guns would still be as big as they were, unfortunately he took forever and a day to release any new music and although I like Chinese I can fully understand why people would hate it, maybe he wanted to allow the band to develop their own ideas and work as a unit, that could be why scraped and some of the more left field songs made it onto the album or It could be that he did genuinely save the best material for an independently released album (I'm pretty sure Geffen had 1 album left on the contract), if this is the case then I can understand why he would put out such a mixture of songs on one album, it allowed him to test the waters, plan for the next album and go in the right direction. Unfortunately this is optimistic thinking and his plan backfired because Guns is now nothing more than a cover band mess that fails to put out any new music, who knows maybe he will surprise us and we will get a double album with chinese leftovers and a more appetite sounding record from the new band (I can't see any other reason for DJ being in the band). What do you guys think?

[themadcaplaughs]

I've always found it slightly funny that people actually think there is some kind of actual walk in "vault" or place like the Library of Congress exclusively containing Guns N' Roses stuff. As someone else brought up, I'm sure all the stuff is on DAT Tapes, CDs, tape, and computer files in thousands of different places. I'd ewven be willing to bet things like the footage from the Use Your Illusion tour documentary is in a bunch of different hands.

[snooze72]

I've always found it slightly funny that people actually think there is some kind of actual walk in "vault" or place like the Library of Congress exclusively containing Guns N' Roses stuff. As someone else brought up, I'm sure all the stuff is on DAT Tapes, CDs, tape, and computer files in thousands of different places. I'd ewven be willing to bet things like the footage from the Use Your Illusion tour documentary is in a bunch of different hands.

No, pretty sure there's a 'vault' or two (rooms, basically) for all the masters, with a security system. I know where one of them is. (And if I recall, there was a tiff with Slash and Duff taking something from there at one point). I'm not sure if the storage place was under the control of the label (and this is aside from label masters), the band or Axl and whether it's changed. They may have separate areas in the same facility. Axl appeared to have control, which begs the question how the legal control of the older material works. That said, over the course of recording CD, there were a million DATs of session material everywhere, remnants of songs, etc, they were being copied and distributed on discs, not virtually. But I doubt they'd be recognizable to anyone other than the players. I don't think the video in particular ever goes anywhere. And there's a lot more video than people realize.

Edited December 14, 2013 by snooze72

[Lindy100]

I've always found it slightly funny that people actually think there is some kind of actual walk in "vault" or place like the Library of Congress exclusively containing Guns N' Roses stuff. As someone else brought up, I'm sure all the stuff is on DAT Tapes, CDs, tape, and computer files in thousands of different places. I'd ewven be willing to bet things like the footage from the Use Your Illusion tour documentary is in a bunch of different hands.

Marc Canter has pretty much confirmed that the vault does exist, in some shape or form. He said "your grandchildren are going to love it..."

[Chris1989]

I've always found it slightly funny that people actually think there is some kind of actual walk in "vault" or place like the Library of Congress exclusively containing Guns N' Roses stuff. As someone else brought up, I'm sure all the stuff is on DAT Tapes, CDs, tape, and computer files in thousands of different places. I'd ewven be willing to bet things like the footage from the Use Your Illusion tour documentary is in a bunch of different hands.

Marc Canter has pretty much confirmed that the vault does exist, in some shape or form. He said "your grandchildren are going to love it..."

"I guess you guys aren't ready for that yet, but your kids are gonna love it"

[RussTCB]

Prison In A Postcard, Oceans Of Mars

What are all of these post you keep making? Are you saying these are all song titles the rest of us haven't heard of?

[snooze72]

Nice thread opening Manets.

Let's not forget about video footage from the Chinese Democracy sessions. Do guys think there is any? It would make a fantastic documentary, that's for sure.

I'm not sure about anyone documenting the process due, in my opinion, to the uncertainties regarding Axl's ambition and the ongoing uncertainties with the project.. perhaps some of the band members may have passed around a video camera during that time, but probably just for their amusement..

Building on that though I would be very interested in a documentary or even a podcast featuring new interviews with people involved - obviously Axl partaking would be great, but even just new recollections - for lack of a better expression - from people who contributed.. don't know what the probability of something like this ever happening is but I'd be interested..

Axl videoed a TON of stuff, or had a crew videoing everything. Expensive home movies. Amazing collection of stuff. Yet with all the people who were around when the cameras were rolling, can't recall anybody ever mentioning or talking about ever viewing any footage.

Marc is right when he says the grandchildren may be the only ones every seeing it. Aside from Axl, there's casual footage with Buckethead, doubt he'll ever allow it out there. No idea of the legal rules/implications in a scenario like that.

[wfuckinga]

snooze tell us tour source for all that

[Chewy2]

- Possibly Paul Huge.

That Paul Huge throw in at the end made me laugh. Who knows though, you might not be that far off since the guy seemed to just disappear.

[Chainsforalice]

Mine would be the full recording of Axl Cam !! Seeing a concert from his view would be awesome.