Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit Discussion Thread

[Chewbacca]

True, but instead of kili, why not getting the elf to get hooked on another dwarf? Don't ask me which, someone that wasn't supposed to be a very present character that is actually supposed to

Die

. She could've at least followed them, instead of coming to save the dying dwarf. Instead of having Kili poisoned, why not just let her be part of the group because she likes the dwarf and wants it? She would have an even bigger role then and they would't mess so much with the original text. Just my 2 cents.

[Tater Totts]

True, but instead of kili, why not getting the elf to get hooked on another dwarf? Don't ask me which, someone that wasn't supposed to be a very present character that is actually supposed to

Die

. She could've at least followed them, instead of coming to save the dying dwarf. Instead of having Kili poisoned, why not just let her be part of the group because she likes the dwarf and wants it? She would have an even bigger role then and they would't mess so much with the original text. Just my 2 cents.But people would complain even more due to the huge changes to the source material.

[Nobodys_Fault]

I thought it was the perfect place to end. But I say this as a fan who has never really read the books. I saw the cartoons when I was young, but the films are really my introduction to Tolkien, and I love them.

Fair enough, I don't mean to shit all over something you enjoyed. Maybe I'm being too negative. I did think the set piece in the middle with the barrels was pretty great. One of the main problems I had with the whole film though was that emphasis is put on absolutely everything thanks to the framing and the grand sweeping score. There's no balance. Maybe the HFR highlighted this more than the standard frame rate would have. (or it might have been because I was absurdly high when I went to see it )

Not to mention this film shouldn't have had any conclusion since it ended in the middle of the book.

This is nonsense. Tolkien didn't charge me for half a book.

Huh? The second film ends in the middle of the story following the book. I don't think I get what you're saying...

Films and books are both a storytelling medium. You're saying the film shouldn't have a conclusion because it follows the book. My point is that Tolkien didn't stop mid paragraph and say, "You can buy the end of the book next Christmas!" Because that's a shitty way to tell a story.

[Guest NGOG]

(Assuming you've read the book, that is)?

Nope.

[OmarBradley]

Forgot to say this earlier. I didn't look up a full cast list before seeing the movie, and when the Master of Lake-town was on screen I kept saying to myself, "Man that guy looks a lot like Stephen Fry." Turns out it was.

[The Sandman]

I loved it - I know people have been critical (as parts of the thread have suggested) over deviance from the book, but it makes for a great film and an awesome adventure.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Finally saw it, enjoyed it. I missed the first five minutes because the idiot at the front desk gave us the ticket to the wrong theater, the tickets did not have the name of the film, just the theater number. Fucking retard.

Anyway, it was great. Anyone else think Thranduil is the biggest Elf douchebag ever? I bet even Elrond hates him. I bet they would have Elven get togethers with Galadriel, Celeborn and Cirdan and not invite Thranduil. Even Mirkwood is a joke compared to Lothlorien and Rivendell but then again, Thranny did not have a Ring of Power and his Kingdom was sick from the rot from Dol Guldor.

Oh and anyone else find it weird seeing Peter Jackson's daughter all grown up? She was so darn cute in the previous trilogy.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Georgy Zhukov

[Powerage5]

Didn't miss anything huge with the first 5 mins - it was just Gandalf and Thorin meeting at the Prancing Pony a year earlier, when Gandalf convinced Thorin to reclaim Erebor. Oh, and they used a different font for the title card than the other 4 films

[Georgy Zhukov]

Didn't miss anything huge with the first 5 mins - it was just Gandalf and Thorin meeting at the Prancing Pony a year earlier, when Gandalf convinced Thorin to reclaim Erebor. Oh, and they used a different font for the title card than the other 4 films

You see, I like little things like that. Gandalf and Thorin sitting down, having an ale. The title card.

I like the scene when Oin expressed how privilege he felt witnessing Elven medicine, being a healer himself. I wonder how effective Tauriel's treatment was, because for Frodo they needed Elrond to do it and he is well over 6,000 years old. Maybe the Morgul blade is more potent than the shard used in the arrow? Or maybe Kili is still infected and Tauriel slowed it down.

[Iron MikeyJ]

I loved it - I know people have been critical (as parts of the thread have suggested) over deviance from the book, but it makes for a great film and an awesome adventure.

agreed.

[Georgy Zhukov]

I couldn't disagree more. Wasn't the it the mission of the Dwarves to enter and claim their "homeland" again. Did they or did they not accomplish this goal in Desolation? I would say they without a doubt accomplished everything they set out to do, because they never really claimed to want to kill Smaug. Nor did they ever address what they were going to do with him once he left the mountain. I thought it was the perfect place to end. But I say this as a fan who has never really read the books. I saw the cartoons when I was young, but the films are really my introduction to Tolkien, and I love them.

Well killing Smaug is a given because he wasn't going to give up Erebor so easily. Even after taking The Lonely Mountain, there are powers that do not want the Dwarves in possession of the kingdom.

I don't think Peter Jackson is as much as a "whore" as some would think. He seems to genuinely care about Middle Earth and since The Hobbit is different in almost every way than The Lord of the Rings, why not expand on it? Only thing I find weird was the subplot about the imprisonment of The Nazgul. They just went to Mordor or the East. In fact after the Witch-King was defeated at Fornost, he was never imprisoned, he went to Minas Morgul and challenged The Last King of Gondor to a fight, who accepted and was never seen again. But I think going by the dialog in The Return of the King, Gandalf said Isildur was the last King, instead of 2000 years of kings that followed.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Georgy Zhukov

[Powerage5]

Didn't miss anything huge with the first 5 mins - it was just Gandalf and Thorin meeting at the Prancing Pony a year earlier, when Gandalf convinced Thorin to reclaim Erebor. Oh, and they used a different font for the title card than the other 4 films

You see, I like little things like that. Gandalf and Thorin sitting down, having an ale. The title card.

I like the scene when Oin expressed how privilege he felt witnessing Elven medicine, being a healer himself. I wonder how effective Tauriel's treatment was, because for Frodo they needed Elrond to do it and he is well over 6,000 years old. Maybe the Morgul blade is more potent than the shard used in the arrow? Or maybe Kili is still infected and Tauriel slowed it down.

But the title card didn't match the rest of the series, so it was shit

[Georgy Zhukov]

Going to see it again on my birthday.

[luciusfunk]

As much as I enjoyed An Unexpected Journey (haven't seen Desolation of Smaug yet), I have to complain. They took a character who had been killed in Moria 140 years before The Hobbit and made him the main antagonist of the movie?

[Powerage5]

As much as I enjoyed An Unexpected Journey (haven't seen Desolation of Smaug yet), I have to complain. They took a character who had been killed in Moria 140 years before The Hobbit and made him the main antagonist of the movie?

Azog plays a smaller role in Desolation Of Smaug. I know it doesn't right the wrong, but at least he's not quite as prominent.

[Georgy Zhukov]

As much as I enjoyed An Unexpected Journey (haven't seen Desolation of Smaug yet), I have to complain. They took a character who had been killed in Moria 140 years before The Hobbit and made him the main antagonist of the movie?

Azog plays a smaller role in Desolation Of Smaug. I know it doesn't right the wrong, but at least he's not quite as prominent.

I think Bolg is a cooler Orc than Azog. I think the problem with Azog is that he has too many lines. That and he is suppose to be dead. Tolkien did not write The Hobbit with The Lord of the Rings in mind. I think Bilbo's Ring was just a ring and the "Goblins" attacked because they were pissed that Gandalf killed The Great Goblin. And Bolg happened to be the son of Azog who fell at Azanulbizar.

By the way I was happy they included that battle, because I loved reading about it in the appendices. It was such an epic clash. Be nice if we get a look at Fornost.

I think Tolkien does the battles slightly better than Peter Jackson. He changed so much for Helm's Deep, I think to make the situation appear more desperate. Like 300 Rohirrim defenders and about 200 Elves. I did not mind that. In the book they numbers were closer to 2,000. And Gandalf showed up with 1,000 foot soldiers and some tree people, not 2,000 horsemen. I think the movie did the conclusion better.

Pelennor Fields is the opposite. Peter Jackson did a great job with everything except when he used deus ex machina with the Dead Men and they finished the battle. In the book Aragorn set them free after they drove away the Corsairs, than he loaded up with as many soldiers from Southern Gondor as possible and set sale. The element of surprise is what took the Mordor Host, not because of ghosts.

I just hope they get the next battle right.

[Powerage5]

As much as I enjoyed An Unexpected Journey (haven't seen Desolation of Smaug yet), I have to complain. They took a character who had been killed in Moria 140 years before The Hobbit and made him the main antagonist of the movie?

Azog plays a smaller role in Desolation Of Smaug. I know it doesn't right the wrong, but at least he's not quite as prominent.

I think Bolg is a cooler Orc than Azog. I think the problem with Azog is that he has too many lines. That and he is suppose to be dead. Tolkien did not write The Hobbit with The Lord of the Rings in mind. I think Bilbo's Ring was just a ring and the "Goblins" attacked because they were pissed that Gandalf killed The Great Goblin. And Bolg happened to be the son of Azog who fell at Azanulbizar.

By the way I was happy they included that battle, because I loved reading about it in the appendices. It was such an epic clash. Be nice if we get a look at Fornost.

I think Tolkien does the battles slightly better than Peter Jackson. He changed so much for Helm's Deep, I think to make the situation appear more desperate. Like 300 Rohirrim defenders and about 200 Elves. I did not mind that. In the book they numbers were closer to 2,000. And Gandalf showed up with 1,000 foot soldiers and some tree people, not 2,000 horsemen. I think the movie did the conclusion better.

Pelennor Fields is the opposite. Peter Jackson did a great job with everything except when he used deus ex machina with the Dead Men and they finished the battle. In the book Aragorn set them free after they drove away the Corsairs, than he loaded up with as many soldiers from Southern Gondor as possible and set sale. The element of surprise is what took the Mordor Host, not because of ghosts.

I just hope they get the next battle right.

Absolutely. And I think in that respect, Jackson has done a nice job of making The Hobbit relevant to LOTR. If they hadn't added the Dol Guldur subplot, there would be very little linking the two trilogies.

[Georgy Zhukov]

And I don't remember, was it Jackson or Tolkien who said that Gandalf wanted the Dwarves to take back Erebor (The Lonely Mountain) so the Eastern borders can be protected? During The War of the Ring, Sauron sent a huge army of Easterlings to overrun Dale and Erebor and meat up with the Host from Dol Guldur which was fighting both Lothlorien and Mirkwood. This was the same time as Minas Tirith was besieged.

I think Tolkien started making connections later on and maybe Peter made more connections that Gandalf wanted Smaug gone because a Dragon joining Sauron would be really bad.

[Powerage5]

And I don't remember, was it Jackson or Tolkien who said that Gandalf wanted the Dwarves to take back Erebor (The Lonely Mountain) so the Eastern borders can be protected? During The War of the Ring, Sauron sent a huge army of Easterlings to overrun Dale and Erebor and meat up with the Host from Dol Guldur which was fighting both Lothlorien and Mirkwood. This was the same time as Minas Tirith was besieged.

I think Tolkien started making connections later on and maybe Peter made more connections that Gandalf wanted Smaug gone because a Dragon joining Sauron would be really bad.

I know Tolkien didn't say anything of the sort in The Hobbit - it's been 7 or 8 years since I last read LOTR so I'm a little rusty there. But in The Hobbit, it seemed to me like Thorin was very much in charge, and Gandalf was more along for the ride.

[Georgy Zhukov]

And cupcakes turning into stone when the sunlight takes them. Doesn't seem like that would happen in The Lord of the Rings.

[Iron MikeyJ]

And cupcakes turning into stone when the sunlight takes them. Doesn't seem like that would happen in The Lord of the Rings.

Well actually, if you watch the extended LOTR all of this is explained. No cupcakes appear anywhere near sunlight.

[Powerage5]

And cupcakes turning into stone when the sunlight takes them. Doesn't seem like that would happen in The Lord of the Rings.

Well actually, if you watch the extended LOTR all of this is explained. No cupcakes appear anywhere near sunlight.

I think Georgy was talking about the books.

[Georgy Zhukov]

And cupcakes turning into stone when the sunlight takes them. Doesn't seem like that would happen in The Lord of the Rings.

Well actually, if you watch the extended LOTR all of this is explained. No cupcakes appear anywhere near sunlight.

I think Georgy was talking about the books.

Plus a lot of Sauron's forces did not fight in the sunlight. It seems only Saruman's Uruk-Hai and Gundabad Orcs can take sunlight.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Read on IMDB, someone theorizes that the reason Peter Jackson did not want direct The Hobbit or one of the reasons is that having him return almost ten years after completing The Lord of the Rings Trilogy it would have raised expectations to unrealistic proportions. Such and George Lucas returning for the Prequel Trilogy and Spielberg for Crystal Skull. If Del Toro directed the reviews could be good or bad and you wonder what would happen if Jackson directed but now we know.

My expectations where low to begin with so I enjoy the films.

[Black Sabbath]

Also, I think I'll be getting the Collector's Edition of the Hobbit book and the 50th Anniversary collection of the all-in-one LotR books for Christmas.

I did get these for Christmas Looking forward to reading them