True Detective - HBO series [SUPER, INSANELY, LITHIUM-ESQUE, HEAVY SPOILERS. PS: There are spoilers in this thread]

[Guest NGOG]

I know about next season and beyond but I've never seen anything said that it could be a continuation of this season in regards to a wider conspiracy. I've read that it will be a completely different series altogether.

I haven't read the interview Wasted is referring to - but given that The King in Yellow is a collection of stories that all use that image - it's possible.

Edited March 5, 2014 by NGOG

[wasted]

Rust meditates by contemplating Christ in the garden before his crucifiction.

Before Christ's betrayal, not his crucifixion. That's why a Marty twist would be so fitting.

Marty has the most parts where you go back and say he was corrupt. He says sly things to the investigators. Is overtly corrupt in most parts of his life. He calls Rust away from Lawnmower boy. He executes Ladoux. Gets his wife to fuck Rust to get him to quit the case. He tries to get the tape off Rust. His daughters have seen Yellow King rituals. He only agrees to help Rust after he sees the tape, he has to. so they set it up to meet on the boat. haulRust off to that Tug boat. Sacrifice him or something. back by that tree where prostitute was displayed. They can throw a montage together pretty easily.

I know about next season and beyond but I've never seen anything said that it could be a continuation of this season in regards to a wider conspiracy. I've read that it will be a completely different series altogether.

I haven't read the interview Wasted is referring to - but given that The King in Yellow is a collection of stories that all use that image - it's possible.

There's a pretty long interview about everything. There's also one about his influences. Alan Moore being one that makes sense.

[Guest NGOG]

Rust meditates by contemplating Christ in the garden before his crucifiction.

Before Christ's betrayal, not his crucifixion. That's why a Marty twist would be so fitting.

Marty has the most parts where you go back and say he was corrupt. He says sly things to the investigators. Is overtly corrupt in most parts of his life. He calls Rust away from Lawnmower boy. He executes Ladoux. Gets his wife to fuck Rust to get him to quit the case. He tries to get the tape off Rust. His daughters have seen Yellow King rituals. He only agrees to help Rust after he sees the tape, he has to. so they set it up to meet on the boat. haulRust off to that Tug boat. Sacrifice him or something. back by that tree where prostitute was displayed. They can throw a montage together pretty easily.

Did you read my observations Wasted?

My Marty suspicions, but I'm no longer as confident in my theory:

If you re-watch the series viewing Marty as the Yellow King, you should become absolutely convinced of his guilt. What initially appeared to be genuine discomfort with this extremely sinister case, now translates as somebody who is deeply concerned by the intuition of Rust. Something I just picked up on is Marty's very first evaluation of Rust with the Major. When the Major asks if he would keep Rust on the case, Marty replies "Both of us yeah - I would". The Major didn't ask about Marty staying on the case, yet Marty answered to that effect anyway. What I deduct from that is Marty recognizes Rust's capacity to solve the case, and as a guilty party, knows the only way to control that is by being involved himself. That's why he has a problem with Rust being around Maggie - not because he sees Maggie as having any worth - but because he's concerned that Maggie may say something which will lead Rust to get him. "Old men die, and the world keeps spinning" - Marty said that to Maggie's father, and it sounds very like the Yellow King's "the world's a circle" philosophy.

Also, in the same evaluation, Marty contrasts the position he had five minutes ago. During their brainstorming at the scene of the crime, Marty basically lambastes Rust for drawing sweeping conclusions. Yet moments later, he describes Rust as having "a real mind for this type of thing". He goes as far as to say that Rust actually has a lead. Marty discourages Rust's way of thinking because he wants to keep him off the right train of thought. During episode 2, Rust makes the point that the Yellow King is religious. Marty thwarts this by saying that "everybody around here" is religious. We know that Marty himself briefly found some sort of god, but it's never Marty answering the questions about religion. "There was a time when men didn't air their bullshit to world" - Marty is very reluctant to open up about his own "bullshit". But why?

The other big point is the scene at the old school. Productions leaks have revealed that "Mr. Grasscutter" will be part of the final two episodes (indicating that he may be of more value that initially suspected). Although Rust actually had this guy in his sights, Marty pressured Rust into leaving to find Reggie Ledoux. He literally pressed his horn until Rust stopped speaking to the spaghetti-haired, green-eared guy on the lawnmower. On a explicit level, this is just a detective excited by a brand new ID. But if you look at it closer, Marty is deterring Rust from getting closer.

On a more general note, Marty leaves the theorizing to Rust. It's always Marty asking Rust for a theory - then giving his opinion on it. That doesn't come across as somebody that is trying to solve a case, it comes across as somebody that's trying to gauge the mind of their pursuer. Then act accordingly.

Then, when they actually get to Ledoux, Marty revealed that he'd recently killed a ten-point buck. When I looked back at the scene involving Dora Lange's body, the antler has ten points. As well as making a very intriguing admission, Marty goes onto shoot Reggie Ledoux point blank. Any "true detective" would have recognized the investigative value of Ledoux, and refrain from acting irrationally (in order to get to a point where no more innocents are harmed). While on a superficial level it just looks like Marty is outraged, how can you say Marty didn't kill Ledoux because he saw the kids and knew it was too strong a lead? Kelly, the little girl rescued during their siege of the meth farm, may have later reacted to Rust in the mental institution because she associates his face with Marty's.

Some may say that Marty can't be guilty because he retains seemingly "normal" relationships with women without killing them. But killing any woman in sight would never be an option for a calculated psychopath. Yet even in his attempts to cover tracks, Marty can't help but allow the Yellow King to surface during "regular" life. The prostitute lady treated Marty with utter contempt, the police officer walking into the Major's office wouldn't so much as look at him, he was tempted to kill somebody for having the tenacity to see his mistress, Audrey drew extremely explicit images from a young age and hates him, there is Yellow King symbolism on the walls of his house, he can't help but hurt his wife by having affairs, and he had sex with the very person whose exploited vulnerability he was disgusted by - read between the lines. Marty even tries to control his mistress by using the image of the Yellow King - "there's no need to go out". Marty knows the Yellow King doesn't act spontaneously, so why would he give his mistress the impression she is under any immediate danger? "What the fuck's his problem?" asked Marty as he was blanked by the elderly officer entering the Major's office - I'm not sure Marty, but I suspect the officer in episode 1 knows that you're being investigated as part of the Yellow King conspiracy.

As many have speculated, Rust isn't just part of a state CID team, he's working to crack the Yellow King mystery for a much bigger power. During episode 1, Rust is even described as a "rat fuck" by a colleague. I suspect his dying father wasn't on record because "Rust Cohle" isn't his real identity.

When Audrey is caught drawing graphic images during her time in school, Marty is very concerned. Yet in episode 2 he made absolutely no mention of the fact that the two sisters were using dolls to depict a gang rape. One of the dolls bore a striking resemblance to Marty.

Another thing you have to consider is Rust's eagerness to have Marty back. Clearly, based on this Sunday's teaser, Rust has already secured some very valuable materials alone. As Rust said many times, Marty's primary purpose was typing things up. So why did he attempt to reconcile with his former partner at the end of episode 6? It's especially strange when you look at Marty's complete u-turn in terms of believing in Rust's ability. It's like Marty led Rust on an elaborate enough wild goose so that he could eventually drop him. Does Rust tail Marty because Marty's investigative prowess is essential to solving the case, or is it because Marty himself is essential to solving the case?

Rust didn't want to give the task force the case because he felt he was close to solving it, Marty didn't want to give the task force the case because he couldn't prevent them from solving it. "I'm just a regular guy... with a big dick" - Marty may be fooling everyone around him, but he will fail to keep Rust at arm's length.

Edited March 5, 2014 by NGOG

[Forsaken]

[downzy]

[Forsaken]

It was under our noses the entire time.

[wasted]

I missed your post but someone said when Rust and Marty are going to get Ledoux rust asks him ever go hunting. Marty says he got a ten point buck.

In the last ep Rust used his technique of empathising with his suspect to draw them out. Rust sort of knows he has to expose himself to Marty and risk being killed to uncover it.

I'm not sure if Marty is the Yellow King. It seems like the cult is very secretive. Obviously could just put a bullet in Rusts head but that might cause more problems. Marty looks wary of the guy in Rusts bar. Like now there's two of them.

So they might be trying to set Rust up. That's been a concern of his all along but maybe he realises that he just has to know. He's hoping Marty leads him deeper into it. He we might see all involved Maggie included but he pays ultimate price.

Would be surprised if Rust gets sacrificed up by the tree like Dora Lange. but it's covered up by state police.

Maybe the ultimate twist being once you get sacrificed you live forever in Carcosa. So Rust becomes one of them.

Then papilloma and gimbal cops start investigate the killing of Rust Cohle he left them clues.

[downzy]

Wasted, I can't tell if you're being serious or not.

[Broskirose]

Am I missing something?

[MEXzilla]

I missed your post but someone said when Rust and Marty are going to get Ledoux rust asks him ever go hunting. Marty says he got a ten point buck.

In the last ep Rust used his technique of empathising with his suspect to draw them out. Rust sort of knows he has to expose himself to Marty and risk being killed to uncover it.

I'm not sure if Marty is the Yellow King. It seems like the cult is very secretive. Obviously could just put a bullet in Rusts head but that might cause more problems. Marty looks wary of the guy in Rusts bar. Like now there's two of them.

So they might be trying to set Rust up. That's been a concern of his all along but maybe he realises that he just has to know. He's hoping Marty leads him deeper into it. He we might see all involved Maggie included but he pays ultimate price.

Would be surprised if Rust gets sacrificed up by the tree like Dora Lange. but it's covered up by state police.

Maybe the ultimate twist being once you get sacrificed you live forever in Carcosa. So Rust becomes one of them.

Then papilloma and gimbal cops start investigate the killing of Rust Cohle he left them clues.

If that actually happens lol seriously that would be something.

[wasted]

Wasted, I can't tell if you're being serious or not.

This part not so serious:

Would be surprised if Rust gets sacrificed up by the tree like Dora Lange. but it's covered up by state police.

Maybe the ultimate twist being once you get sacrificed you live forever in Carcosa. So Rust becomes one of them.

Then papilloma and gimbal cops start investigate the killing of Rust Cohle he left them clues.

[wasted]

I think Maggie is maybe more involved in the reveal. Say she knows about the Tuttle/Childress. She doesn't necessarily want to be involved, but maybe she does turn a blind eye. Like she wants Rust to lie to her. So when she says "What have you been doing?" it's not just affairs she's talking about. When she goes to Rust and says "He's doing it again." She means killing women. They are kind of both alone in this secret. She is under direct threat, Rust's case could be compromised.

In the last ep, Rust asks about Beth and Marty makes up some bullshit about her being crazy. Remember Rusts comment about a "downpayment". He's probably been killing all his affairs up and down the coast. The madam at the brothel says something like you don't like the idea because you have to pay and don't own/kill them. He particularly had to kill Beth because she made him outside the brothel. She's probably seen him up there a million times. If the state PD can cover up this child sex ring then they can cover up a few dead hookers. When Marty looks in the file room, he doesn't look shocked he looks guilty. It's just another piece that could be re-told a different way. Like his line about living a quiet life now while going through Match.com for more victims.

There's no flashback to prove Rust went to Alaska for 8 years. He was lying to Marty pretending he hasn't been working on the case too hard. He was using his technique to interrogate Marty. We're the same. He's letting Marty think he believes him.

One or two things like this maybe not, but it's consistent. Every step of the way Marty is making little moves, derailing here, giving himself away there. Like losing it when he attacks his mistresses boyfriend, or slaps his daughter, or even gets real upset with Rust for mowing his lawn. His kids drawing cult symbols and restating rituals with dolls. That all piles up in the rewatches. Whereas as in rematches Rust goes the other way really. You see he's hiding things because he's being framed. He even labels the Yellow King philosophy as the M Brain Theory, he's used science to describe it.

Even in the credits there's a bald guy in robes inset in Marty's silhouette. I know the credit images are done out of house.

Who knows about the shadowy figures at start. Is it Marty dragging Dora Lange up there or Rust? It makes some sense it will all end back at that tree.

What if wherever they go in the next ep. Dora Lange is there and still alive. And Marty takes her up and sacrifices her. Time is the flat circle. Then last scene is the first scene of ep 1.

[Forsaken]

Am I missing something?

Clearly, read the sign

[wasted]

This interview was kind of interesting. After TD finishes Galveston might be like rehab.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/04/inside-the-obsessive-strange-mind-of-true-detective-s-nic-pizzolatto.html

One of my goals for Season Two is more authentic, faster—and stranger. It’s going to get stranger. - Pizzolatto

Edited March 6, 2014 by wasted

[wasted]

here's the quote about the wider conspiracy theory:

http://screencrush.com/hbo-true-detective-season-2-renewal-nic-pizzolatto-2015/

There could be a season that’s much more of a widespread conspiracy thriller, a season that’s a small‑town murder mystery, a season where nobody is murdered and it’s a master criminal versus a rogue detective or something. Even the title, True Detective, is meant to be, of course, purposefully somewhat generic – the word “true” can also mean honorable and authentic and things like that. So as long as there is some crime in there, I think the series format can approach it.

Edited March 6, 2014 by wasted

[Ace Nova]

I was going to mention this after watching the first six episodes but then got sidetracked with all these other theories....but did anyone notice that the show is called, "True Detective"...not "True Detectives"....somewhat points to the theory that one of them isn't a "true" detective...

[downzy]

I was going to mention this after watching the first six episodes but then got sidetracked with all these other theories....but did anyone notice that the show is called, "True Detective"...not "True Detectives"....somewhat points to the theory that one of them isn't a "true" detective...

I've read elsewhere that some are interpreting that to mean that one of them is a, or the, killer. Which I think is a stretch.

That would mean the whole show could have been solved without even the need of watching it. It would also infer that this same dynamic would be at play in future seasons. It strikes me as a tad gimmicky if the title of the show really was a clue.

[Ace Nova]

I was going to mention this after watching the first six episodes but then got sidetracked with all these other theories....but did anyone notice that the show is called, "True Detective"...not "True Detectives"....somewhat points to the theory that one of them isn't a "true" detective...

I've read elsewhere that some are interpreting that to mean that one of them is a, or the, killer. Which I think is a stretch.

That would mean the whole show could have been solved without even the need of watching it. It would also infer that this same dynamic would be at play in future seasons. It strikes me as a tad gimmicky if the title of the show really was a clue.

That was what I was hinting at....and it could be a "tribute" to the first season of the show....always there as a reminder for future seasons.....that things may not always be what they seem type of thing....

And on another note....has anyone noticed how Marty's hair always stands out as being extremely blonde (yellow)?

Take a look at the original poster for the show:

....notice Marty's "yellow" hair....right below our eyes the entire time....

[Ace Nova]

....and the only character to eat spaghetti the entire season has been...Marty...foreshadowing....coincidence...or red herring?

Got this from reddit....

Take a look at this image:

Then a still shot from the Tuttle video:

The Spaghetti monster?

Edited March 6, 2014 by Kasanova King

[wasted]

Definitely I think this will be a piece of closure we get. Whether its Lawnmower boy or just Marty chasing the kids with spaghetti in his mouth.

I still think in some way Marty and Rust are opposites which could make a whole person. Marty is sloppy and womanizer, Rust is very detailed and virtually monologmous (see how i can't spell that word) if not celibate.

In the quote above, he talks about how the title True Detective is meant to be kind of generic. In relation to this first season it means who is telling the truth, pick one? I mean Marty hasn't done much detective work really. Rust has done everything. Marty's done a little since eating on board, but Rust questions he really did it. Rust is the True Detective. He couldn't let go and is risking his life to solve the case. they both are potentially.

In his book Galveston his main character also cuts up cans into figures. Rust seems like the hero of the piece.

[wasted]

I was going to mention this after watching the first six episodes but then got sidetracked with all these other theories....but did anyone notice that the show is called, "True Detective"...not "True Detectives"....somewhat points to the theory that one of them isn't a "true" detective...

Well, Marty is a bum of a detective. He describes all the types of detectives there are in ep 1 and he's been all of them. But he has got the hart of a true detective ironicalness. Whereas Rust has the mind of a psychopath but the drive to find the truth. Pizzolatto said you can tell who the killer is from ep 1 if you look carefully.

[Guest NGOG]

And on another note....has anyone noticed how Marty's hair always stands out as being extremely blonde (yellow)?

Take a look at the original poster for the show:

....notice Marty's "yellow" hair....right below our eyes the entire time....

I pointed this out a few days ago.

[wasted]

Woody is donning le wig? What are you saying Marty's head has branches coming out of it?

One detail I'm not sure I understood was, Rust says real early in ep 1 the day they found the body of Dora Lange was his dead daughter's birthday?

Also, not sure of ep but at the end of one ep Rust goes back to the tree and there's wreath like thing with a hole in it? what the hell was that all about?

"The idea of allowing your own crucifixion"

It's funny how Rust laughs at the irony of explaining to Marty what a meta-psychiotic is.

Edited March 6, 2014 by wasted

[appetite4illusions]

I'd love to see at least one more of Rust's "visions."

I thought that was a particularly cool character trait and it's been gone from the narrative since epi 2. Bring on them hallucinations!

[Guest NGOG]

I'd love to see at least one more of Rust's "visions."

The visions may still be occurring, but Rust can't decipher them from reality.

It's more likely however that the effects of going undercover have worn off.