True Detective - HBO series [SUPER, INSANELY, LITHIUM-ESQUE, HEAVY SPOILERS. PS: There are spoilers in this thread]

[appetite4illusions]

I thought that long pause Rust gave when Gilbrough asked him if he still experienced them was indicative of re-occurrence.

Those visions were part of what I thought made Rust such a damn interesting and original character.

"...other times, it felt like I was mainlining the secret truth of the universe..."

[Guest NGOG]

This unfortunately seems likely. Marty will drag an injured Cohle from the blaze, but Cohle will die from injuries. He will say something powerful - perhaps a sentiment about his daughter - and die contently. Marty will retire entirely from investigation and focus on salvaging whatever relationship he can with Audrey (who will likely be exposed as a victim of the 5 horsemen).

Although they extinguish the key elements of the Church of the Yellow King - locally of course - the phenomena itself will continue. Series 2 will involve Papania and Gilbough discovering the more widespread nature of the Yellow King, and pursuing it accordingly.

To expand on this, I believe the "twist" will be that Marty's father-in-law is part of the Yellow King hierarchy - and has abused Audrey all along. I can't explain why I felt this, bu he just came across as a disturbed individual. His point to Marty about young people being preoccupied with sex was bizarre - and was more of a smokescreen than a sociological point.

I'm also intrigued by the scene with Maggie and her mother, which like Audrey and Marty, gives the impression of a strained relationship. Maggie says that her mother should stick to watching her TV shows - perhaps indicating a negligence that allowed her to be violated by her father? Perhaps that's why Marty continually goes elsewhere for sex - because Maggie is sexually damaged by the abuse of her father.

[downzy]

This unfortunately seems likely. Marty will drag an injured Cohle from the blaze, but Cohle will die from injuries. He will say something powerful - perhaps a sentiment about his daughter - and die contently. Marty will retire entirely from investigation and focus on salvaging whatever relationship he can with Audrey (who will likely be exposed as a victim of the 5 horsemen).

Although they extinguish the key elements of the Church of the Yellow King - locally of course - the phenomena itself will continue. Series 2 will involve Papania and Gilbough discovering the more widespread nature of the Yellow King, and pursuing it accordingly.

To expand on this, I believe the "twist" will be that Marty's father-in-law is part of the Yellow King hierarchy - and has abused Audrey all along. I can't explain why I felt this, bu he just came across as a disturbed individual. His point to Marty about young people being preoccupied with sex was bizarre - and was more of a smokescreen than a sociological point.

I'm also intrigued by the scene with Maggie and her mother, which like Audrey and Marty, gives the impression of a strained relationship. Maggie says that her mother should stick to watching her TV shows - perhaps indicating a negligence that allowed her to be violated by her father? Perhaps that's why Marty continually goes elsewhere for sex - because Maggie is sexually damaged by the abuse of her father.

Yeah, there has to be something that explains the deviant behaviour of Marty's oldest. It wouldn't make much sense if it was revealed at the very end of the show that Audrey was a student at one of Tuttle's schools. Marty was aware of Rust's suspicions of Tuttle, especially by episode six, so if his daughter had been attending one of those schools you would think he would have brought it up. Unless, of course, Marty is in on it, but again, there are big problems with that guess.

Unless Pizzolatto is lying in his interviews about the show, both protagonists are meant to be highly flawed men but ultimately proven to be heroes. Over at the Daily Beast, he's on record as saying: "Cohle has a line late in the series where he says, ‘I won’t avert my eyes.' And that to me is heroic.” Marty has a problem with being exposed to humanity's worst, hence why he lectures the madam about selling underaged girls (granted, he sleeps with that same girl when she gets older), can't watch the entire video Rust stole from Tuttle, and ultimately quits his job because a tweaker tried to dry his baby off by putting the infant in a microwave. One of his flaws has been his willingness to avert his eyes, which I think he's overcoming or will overcome by the end of this series.

But again, this leaves us with explaining Audrey. If she was abused (and this goes on the assumption that she was, which could be wrong), one hypothesis is that it was her grandfather who was abusing her, and that this abuse also fell on Maggie as well. Perhaps Maggie couldn't bring herself to help herself or her daughter, and instead averted her eyes for the sake of protecting her family (both her parents and her own). To your point NGOG, Maggie could be highly damaged, which has prevented her from helping herself or her daughter. The only time we see her and Marty become intimate is when Marty admits that he too is a mess, something she can identify with. Again, I don't think Audrey was a student at a Tuttle school, because that should have been brought up prior to now. And if I venture into Wasted territory of trying to find meaning where there's likely no meaning to be found, it's interesting how in the scene with the grandparents both of Marty's children are playing in a boat, keeping a large distance between themselves and their grandparents. Probably nothing, but looking back at the scene it could be something.

Perhaps her visit with Rust in episode 7 was motivated by the fact that she knows Rust and Marty are getting closer to the truth; that if and when Marty finds out about her family's involvement, he'll likely do something drastic (as he's been shown to do). What she says to Rust about looking out for Marty is the most she can say without giving anything away.

Who knows, it's the best I can come up with. Not very confident in that prognosis but it's the only way I can explain the show without Marty being complicit or Pizzolatto lying in his interviews.

Edited March 6, 2014 by downzy

[Guest NGOG]

And if I venture into Wasted territory of trying to find meaning where there's likely no meaning to be found, it's interesting how in the scene with the grandparents both of Marty's children are playing in a boat, keeping a large distance between themselves and their grandparents.

Spot on - I was thinking that myself. It seems wholly irresponsible to allow two young girls to paddle a boat into the middle of a large lake, yet if you look at it as the girls' means of keeping away from a twisted grandfather, it's far more acceptable.

Edited March 6, 2014 by NGOG

[Guest NGOG]

Genius:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqy18zRDNBc

[downzy]

And if I venture into Wasted territory of trying to find meaning where there's likely no meaning to be found, it's interesting how in the scene with the grandparents both of Marty's children are playing in a boat, keeping a large distance between themselves and their grandparents.

Spot on - I was thinking that myself. It seems wholly irresponsible to allow two young girls to paddle a boat into the middle of a large lake, yet if you look at it as the girls' means of keeping away from a twisted grandfather, it's far more acceptable.

I remember when I first watched this scene thinking that it was poor parenting on Marty and Maggie's part for letting their kids out on the boat like that. They're not even wearing life-jackets. I just watched the scene again and few things kind of stick out. First, the one daughter (I'm not sure who is who in this scene) first shoots down her sister's suggestion to ask her grandfather for help. After she does, the other daughter asks why she didn't first listen to her (I assume about asking her grandfather). It's also interesting how Maggie's father brings up the case. In the scene where Maggie is talking to her mother, the mother admonishes Maggie by stating, "You beat up on things you can't control, makes it worse for everyone else." Perhaps this is a veil suggestion that the depravity that the family has been exposed to is something that both women have decided is beyond their control.

Again, I make most of these suggestions with the admission that they're probably nothing. I think the conclusion will be very simple and avoid the kind of endings that Pizzolatto riles against in his interviews (i.e. Seven or Usual Suspects).

[bacardimayne]

Wasted deserves the Nobel prize for his contributions to this thread.

[downzy]

Another interesting take on how religion and investigation play opposing but parallel currents throughout the show:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/06/true-detective-s-godless-universe-is-the-hbo-show-anti-christian.html

Thinking more about the show, I think Rust is meant to be a Christ like figure. He's a foreign entity meant to disrupt the corrupt ecosystem he comes into contact. The great irony of the show is that a non-believer may end up sacrificing himself for the good of those he cares about. When people started throwing out theories of Maggie being involved, it didn't feel right to me. These seem like crimes committed towards women by men. The victims are always women (I assume, unless I miss something). But if Maggie was a victim (perhaps saved by the fact that her father was one of the perpetrators), it might explain in great detail her relationship with Marty and her children. At the end of episode 7, the Lawnmower man says that his family has been here for a very long time. These crimes have likely been happening for just as long, but they had always been covered up due to the family's connections to government and state and local police. Rust, who knows himself and can't be co-opted, and is the disruptive force in all of this, much like Jesus was back in his day.

Looking forward to Sunday

Edited March 6, 2014 by downzy

[Guest NGOG]

Wasted deserves the Nobel prize for his contributions to this thread.

He reads a lot of my points, gets drunks, forgets I said them, and reposts them.

I missed your post but someone said when Rust and Marty are going to get Ledoux rust asks him ever go hunting. Marty says he got a ten point buck.

These seem like crimes committed towards women by men.

Which ties in with Pizzolatto's point that True Detective is about the harm perpetrated by men against women and children.

Edited March 6, 2014 by NGOG

[ManetsBR]

Alright, watched the whole thing yesterday. I don't remember how the sunlight looks like anymore. Anyway, as much as I like the theories of how Marty and Rust are somehow involved, I don't see why they would have insisted on leading the investigation instead of leaving it to the task force like their boss wanted on the first episodes. By the way, I've read here and on other places about how Audrey may have been involved with the cult. How?

The theory that Marie Fontenot is Rust's daughter is also quite interesting... We never heard much of her, nor of her parents...

Also, something I noticed on the finale teaser:

Is that guy with the sniper Rust's bar owner? Sure looked like him

Edited March 6, 2014 by ManetsBR

[Guest NGOG]

Also, something I noticed on the finale teaser:

Is that guy with the sniper Rust's bar owner? Sure looked like him

Good observation. Rust gives the order to fire in a subsequent clip - so it's likely.

Mind blown:

[Forsaken]

^^^ Saw that earlier. Could be Maggies mother. They look similar. Thought it was pretty clear about the guy in the bar as the sniper, it's definitely him. "He hates cops."

And Manets:

By the way, I've read here and on other places about how Audrey may have been involved with the cult. How?

[ManetsBR]

Thank you, Forsaken, that makes sense... But why would Maggie's mother be involved? By the way, do you guys remember that concept we discussed back on the Breaking Bad finale? Chehkov's Gun? How nothing is mentioned or gets enough camera time if it wasn't going to be important on the story? That picture on Dora's mother house got even a close shot on it... Same goes for the bar owner. I think it's pretty safe to assume that it's definetly him, otherwise that scene on the bar could have been cut and given space to something that would be important.

Found on reddit:

Notice King:

Edited March 6, 2014 by ManetsBR

[Forsaken]

But why would Maggie's mother be involved?

There's a lot of speculation that Maggie's father may be behind this as well. Another theory some people are going by. Both her mother and father are credited in the finale.

[Guest NGOG]

Love this:

There's speculation that the "Marshland Medea" from episode 6 also went to Light of the Way school with Rianne Olivier. Others suspect that the big guy in the far right corner is our landscaper guy from outside the school with the "Devil's Nests," a.k.a. The Green Eared Spaghetti Monster. But that may be too much of a stretch. Let's not get carried away here!

[Forsaken]

^^ Awesome. I love all of these theories. It's what has made this show much more intriguing to me and Pizzolatto said it wasn't intended this way. Wasted, I must say you have done a fine job in this thread. Love thinking way outside of the box.

Found on reddit:

Notice King:

Posted this a few pages earlier you fucker

[ManetsBR]

LeDoux and Baby Killer similar mark: http://imgur.com/a/2q5nD

Following that Chehkov's Gun concept, would be no coincidence.

Edit: Forsaken, I'm sorry! Haven't read the whole thread!

Edited March 6, 2014 by ManetsBR

[Guest NGOG]

I think the boat we saw at the end episode 7 is called either "The Yellow King", or "Carcosa". That would explain why either hasn't been personified or explained - and why the crimes seem to be taking place near water.

[Guest NGOG]

In my opinion, the following is definitely what is known as "The Yellow King" (from the latest teaser):

Imagine if you were on crystal meth and LSD, that figure would drive you barmy. The Yellow King is merely an image they used to "phenomonize" - yes I just made up a word - their fundamentally human crimes.

Edited March 6, 2014 by NGOG

[Forsaken]

In my opinion, the following is definitely what is known as "The Yellow King" (from the latest teaser):

Yep, was about to post:

Don't think the Yellow King is a person.

Woody sure hates people mowing his lawn

[Sixes]

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/true-detective-creator-debunks-fan-theories-20140306

[Angelica]

http://gothamist.com/2014/03/05/maggie_true_detective.php

Whoever was touting this weeks ago, I can totally see it now. Which means it's probably wrong, but wtf

[Forsaken]

Interesting, I like entertaining that idea. Pizzolatto has said that the answer to everything is in the first episode alone, and the fact that the first line of the series is "You don't pick your parents, and you don't pick your partner".

Good theory. Won't rule this out. Neither Rust or Marty will be involved, though.

[wasted]

in The King in Yellow, Carcosa is kind of like a supernatural place or something, like another dimension where reality is clear. In most of the stories a spirit demon thing comes for the person reading the book or they go crazy.

[Guest NGOG]

Based on the leaked picture, I firmly believe the Yellow King is nothing more than an illusion created by meth and LSD. To the average eye, the Yellow King is a poorly constructed altar (and there is absolutely no way it could cause such spine-crippling fear). But when you're strung out on the drugs peddled by Ledoux and co, suddenly what you're looking at becomes an all-powerful and compelling god (and you immediately have thoughts of immortality). It's extremely crafty because it makes a victim believe their abuse is purposeful - as opposed to just feeding somebody's sense of sadism. By making sexual abuse purely supernatural, you depersonalize the crime. It’s no longer about the people that run society, but an unexplainable phenomenon. They’re capitalizing on the gullibility of a god-fearing, conservative society – people in the area would actually embrace the notion of an unknown force punishing young women and children (as Rust points out by referring to the IQ of an evangelical gathering). In my view, Pizzolatto doesn’t want to spook the audience by setting the platform for an implausible satanic being; he wants to make a legitimate criticism about how willing society it is to buy a “reality” devised by the elite. It’s no different to what we’ve witnessed with the Catholic Church. Dozens of paedophiles have risen to positions of prominence and used the guise of god, as well as the faith of their community, to feed their sense of depravity.

Think about it; who - other than people who feel god’s will is served by human punishment - would be so comfortable with unsolved murder? Many parents have their suspicions – like the shotgun wielding Dad Rust went to visit, or the owner of the bar Rust works for, even Marty himself is baffled by the behaviour of his daughter – yet society has failed to come together to make a concerted attempt at understanding why children are losing their innocence. While the police department may have consciously controlled the level of information released, such a widespread conspiracy cannot help but surface in some form. The children are afraid to say that a man of god hurt them (because a man of god would never do that, and he’s also providing you with the possibility of eduction!), and they cannot even be sure of their experiences (because they are drugged in order to create the illusion that they are being harmed by otherworldly beings).

True Detective is all about society’s apathy towards being abused by those that combine the key elements of living – money, drugs, religion and education - and wield it in order to fulfil their own sickening desires.

Edited March 7, 2014 by NGOG